The JK Rowling Podcast

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gen Z will not push back on this topic.

The only ones who are speaking out, like the women's swim team 2nd place winner who lost 1st place to a transwoman, are saying that they were afraid to speak out for fear of losing their place on the swim team.

These women are too young to know what's at stake. They will figure it out soon enough.

No, I doubt it.

They're accustomed to co-ed dressing rooms, co-ed dorms, co-ed gyms. They won't know any better.

Kind of like how the millennials got a rude awakening that there wasn't as much equality as they thought there was. Like I said, they will wake up eventually.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

Transwomen are not women. They are trans-women. There's a hyphen there. They are not the same as me. They can identify differently than men but they are not the same as a biological woman. I have a completely different set of biological and medical concerns than a trans women, and a trans women has different medical concerns than I do. We also have different social and cultural issues which plague us.

Why are we so black and white? Is the English language and our cultural construct limited to two categories? No, we can have a third, or fourth, if needed. They are not women, who were born women and have never previously been men. They are trans-women, who were once men. Different groups entirely. This is really not rocket science.

This. The problem is that people have decided that "trans women are women PERIOD" is the definition of trans acceptance, and anything else is bigotry.

So Rowling is a bigot because she dares to say "but wait, aren't trans women different than biological women in some ways?" Like that's some kind of radical statement. But it's true on its face.

Rowling does get some things wrong. There are aspects of trans acceptance and trans activism that she think threaten biological women but don't. But the problem is that people don't want to have a conversation about that nuance, in a way that might result in peopel saying "oh, okay, I was worried about that but I now see it's not a concern." Instead, they scream that she's a bigot, ban her books, posture online about how they hate her, and never actually engage the conversation. Which has just entrenched her into some of her incorrect views.

But if we could start from the premise that "Trans women are women but there are some differences between biological and trans women (and also some commonalities between trans men and biological women, and between trans women and biological men), so when we set policy and make laws, we should consider that sometimes the lines will be drawn differently in order to ensure everyone's rights are protected and that vulnerable groups are not erased or exploited."

I mean, yeah, that doesn't fit on a sign you might hold outside a bookstore to protest an author you've decided is a stupid bigot, and it's not as catchy. But it has the benefit of being more true and more useful in terms of actually describing the world as it is.

Go ahead and call me a TERF now.

[Anonymous]

Trans women are NOT women. You know why? Because they are still operating as men, steamrolling, bullying, and shaming actual women and trying to minimize our existence.

I support any individual’s right to seek happiness in their life however they see fit, but what’s been happening the last few years is a bunch of BS.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

Transwomen are not women. They are trans-women. There's a hyphen there. They are not the same as me. They can identify differently than men but they are not the same as a biological woman. I have a completely different set of biological and medical concerns than a trans women, and a trans women has different medical concerns than I do. We also have different social and cultural issues which plague us.

Why are we so black and white? Is the English language and our cultural construct limited to two categories? No, we can have a third, or fourth, if needed. They are not women, who were born women and have never previously been men. They are trans-women, who were once men. Different groups entirely. This is really not rocket science.

This. The problem is that people have decided that "trans women are women PERIOD" is the definition of trans acceptance, and anything else is bigotry.

So Rowling is a bigot because she dares to say "but wait, aren't trans women different than biological women in some ways?" Like that's some kind of radical statement. But it's true on its face.

Rowling does get some things wrong. There are aspects of trans acceptance and trans activism that she think threaten biological women but don't. But the problem is that people don't want to have a conversation about that nuance, in a way that might result in peopel saying "oh, okay, I was worried about that but I now see it's not a concern." Instead, they scream that she's a bigot, ban her books, posture online about how they hate her, and never actually engage the conversation. Which has just entrenched her into some of her incorrect views.

But if we could start from the premise that "Trans women are women but there are some differences between biological and trans women (and also some commonalities between trans men and biological women, and between trans women and biological men), so when we set policy and make laws, we should consider that sometimes the lines will be drawn differently in order to ensure everyone's rights are protected and that vulnerable groups are not erased or exploited."

I mean, yeah, that doesn't fit on a sign you might hold outside a bookstore to protest an author you've decided is a stupid bigot, and it's not as catchy. But it has the benefit of being more true and more useful in terms of actually describing the world as it is.

Go ahead and call me a TERF now.

Can you say that black women are in some ways different than white women in some ways? We know it’s true when treated them for medical conditions.

You mean this black and trans women are women but they are different than white and biological women, respectively.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

Sure, the kid raised as a privileged male who goes off to college, changes their name and starts wearing dresses totally gets the experiences, the attitudes, the expectations, the hormonal events that have shaped my life as a woman. Totally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

Sure, the kid raised as a privileged male who goes off to college, changes their name and starts wearing dresses totally gets the experiences, the attitudes, the expectations, the hormonal events that have shaped my life as a woman. Totally.

There isn’t one universal experience for women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gen Z will not push back on this topic.

The only ones who are speaking out, like the women's swim team 2nd place winner who lost 1st place to a transwoman, are saying that they were afraid to speak out for fear of losing their place on the swim team.

These women are too young to know what's at stake. They will figure it out soon enough.

No, I doubt it.

They're accustomed to co-ed dressing rooms, co-ed dorms, co-ed gyms. They won't know any better.

Kind of like how the millennials got a rude awakening that there wasn't as much equality as they thought there was. Like I said, they will wake up eventually.

No, they already understand it’s not big deal and it’s better to be inclusive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

Sure, the kid raised as a privileged male who goes off to college, changes their name and starts wearing dresses totally gets the experiences, the attitudes, the expectations, the hormonal events that have shaped my life as a woman. Totally.

There isn’t one universal experience for women.

Going through female puberty is pretty close to universal and the implications are far reaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

Sure, the kid raised as a privileged male who goes off to college, changes their name and starts wearing dresses totally gets the experiences, the attitudes, the expectations, the hormonal events that have shaped my life as a woman. Totally.

There isn’t one universal experience for women.

Going through female puberty is pretty close to universal and the implications are far reaching.

No it’s not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gen Z will not push back on this topic.

The only ones who are speaking out, like the women's swim team 2nd place winner who lost 1st place to a transwoman, are saying that they were afraid to speak out for fear of losing their place on the swim team.

These women are too young to know what's at stake. They will figure it out soon enough.

They have already seen some people (Republicans) try to oppress and hurt their transgender friends. They know what’s at stake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

Sure, the kid raised as a privileged male who goes off to college, changes their name and starts wearing dresses totally gets the experiences, the attitudes, the expectations, the hormonal events that have shaped my life as a woman. Totally.

There isn’t one universal experience for women.

Going through female puberty is pretty close to universal and the implications are far reaching.

No it’s not.

How?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

Sure, the kid raised as a privileged male who goes off to college, changes their name and starts wearing dresses totally gets the experiences, the attitudes, the expectations, the hormonal events that have shaped my life as a woman. Totally.

There isn’t one universal experience for women.

Going through female puberty is pretty close to universal and the implications are far reaching.

No it’s not.

How so? How would a biological woman who identifies as a woman in adulthood not have gone through female puberty?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

Sure, the kid raised as a privileged male who goes off to college, changes their name and starts wearing dresses totally gets the experiences, the attitudes, the expectations, the hormonal events that have shaped my life as a woman. Totally.

There isn’t one universal experience for women.

Going through female puberty is pretty close to universal and the implications are far reaching.

No it’s not.

+1

Humans all go through the transition from childhood to adulthood, but that transition looks different for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

Transwomen are not women. They are trans-women. There's a hyphen there. They are not the same as me. They can identify differently than men but they are not the same as a biological woman. I have a completely different set of biological and medical concerns than a trans women, and a trans women has different medical concerns than I do. We also have different social and cultural issues which plague us.

Why are we so black and white? Is the English language and our cultural construct limited to two categories? No, we can have a third, or fourth, if needed. They are not women, who were born women and have never previously been men. They are trans-women, who were once men. Different groups entirely. This is really not rocket science.

This. The problem is that people have decided that "trans women are women PERIOD" is the definition of trans acceptance, and anything else is bigotry.

So Rowling is a bigot because she dares to say "but wait, aren't trans women different than biological women in some ways?" Like that's some kind of radical statement. But it's true on its face.

Rowling does get some things wrong. There are aspects of trans acceptance and trans activism that she think threaten biological women but don't. But the problem is that people don't want to have a conversation about that nuance, in a way that might result in peopel saying "oh, okay, I was worried about that but I now see it's not a concern." Instead, they scream that she's a bigot, ban her books, posture online about how they hate her, and never actually engage the conversation. Which has just entrenched her into some of her incorrect views.

But if we could start from the premise that "Trans women are women but there are some differences between biological and trans women (and also some commonalities between trans men and biological women, and between trans women and biological men), so when we set policy and make laws, we should consider that sometimes the lines will be drawn differently in order to ensure everyone's rights are protected and that vulnerable groups are not erased or exploited."

I mean, yeah, that doesn't fit on a sign you might hold outside a bookstore to protest an author you've decided is a stupid bigot, and it's not as catchy. But it has the benefit of being more true and more useful in terms of actually describing the world as it is.

Go ahead and call me a TERF now.

Can you say that black women are in some ways different than white women in some ways? We know it’s true when treated them for medical conditions.

You mean this black and trans women are women but they are different than white and biological women, respectively.

Not in the slightest. Black, white, hispanic, etc women share a pretty common female medical and biological experience. Some may have heightened concerns for blood pressure, heart disease, etc. but that is not enough to put us in different categories. We have different cultural and societal experiences but we are not biologically dissimilar.
A trans women who used to (or still does) have male genitalia and a male operating system does not share the same biological or medical concerns that black, white, hispanic, asian, etc. women do.

As an aside, I feel like we've all taken crazy pills, and wonder why I have to explain this. It's very basic.

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Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

Transwomen are not women. They are trans-women. There's a hyphen there. They are not the same as me. They can identify differently than men but they are not the same as a biological woman. I have a completely different set of biological and medical concerns than a trans women, and a trans women has different medical concerns than I do. We also have different social and cultural issues which plague us.

Why are we so black and white? Is the English language and our cultural construct limited to two categories? No, we can have a third, or fourth, if needed. They are not women, who were born women and have never previously been men. They are trans-women, who were once men. Different groups entirely. This is really not rocket science.

This. The problem is that people have decided that "trans women are women PERIOD" is the definition of trans acceptance, and anything else is bigotry.

So Rowling is a bigot because she dares to say "but wait, aren't trans women different than biological women in some ways?" Like that's some kind of radical statement. But it's true on its face.

Rowling does get some things wrong. There are aspects of trans acceptance and trans activism that she think threaten biological women but don't. But the problem is that people don't want to have a conversation about that nuance, in a way that might result in peopel saying "oh, okay, I was worried about that but I now see it's not a concern." Instead, they scream that she's a bigot, ban her books, posture online about how they hate her, and never actually engage the conversation. Which has just entrenched her into some of her incorrect views.

But if we could start from the premise that "Trans women are women but there are some differences between biological and trans women (and also some commonalities between trans men and biological women, and between trans women and biological men), so when we set policy and make laws, we should consider that sometimes the lines will be drawn differently in order to ensure everyone's rights are protected and that vulnerable groups are not erased or exploited."

I mean, yeah, that doesn't fit on a sign you might hold outside a bookstore to protest an author you've decided is a stupid bigot, and it's not as catchy. But it has the benefit of being more true and more useful in terms of actually describing the world as it is.

Go ahead and call me a TERF now.

Can you say that black women are in some ways different than white women in some ways? We know it’s true when treated them for medical conditions.

You mean this black and trans women are women but they are different than white and biological women, respectively.

Black women and white women are biologically the same. Race is a social construct. The medical differences you reference are genetic, not based on skin color. They are based on historical periods of people within a specific group only having kids with one another, not the actual color of someone's skin, and as a result there are black women who . Most of the differences between how we treat white women and black women in medical settings are based on racism, not science.

But good job trying to take an uncontroversial statement ("there are differences between trans women and biological women") and make it racist.

You know what's interesting? You never hear the phrase "Trans men are men, period." Because not only would it not make sense, it would be dangerous. Trans men, for instance, need access to medical care for biological women. So treating trans men as different than biological men, in this specific respect, actually helps ensure that trans men get access to needed medical care. Common sense!