The JK Rowling Podcast

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

Trans women cannot get pregnant and do not menstruate. So they do not have a period. So no, they are not identical to biological women.

There are all types of cis-women as well. Some who can’t get pregnant and some who don’t menstruate.

Those bodily functions don’t define women.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

Transwomen are not women. They are trans-women. There's a hyphen there. They are not the same as me. They can identify differently than men but they are not the same as a biological woman. I have a completely different set of biological and medical concerns than a trans women, and a trans women has different medical concerns than I do. We also have different social and cultural issues which plague us.

Why are we so black and white? Is the English language and our cultural construct limited to two categories? No, we can have a third, or fourth, if needed. They are not women, who were born women and have never previously been men. They are trans-women, who were once men. Different groups entirely. This is really not rocket science.

This. The problem is that people have decided that "trans women are women PERIOD" is the definition of trans acceptance, and anything else is bigotry.

So Rowling is a bigot because she dares to say "but wait, aren't trans women different than biological women in some ways?" Like that's some kind of radical statement. But it's true on its face.

Rowling does get some things wrong. There are aspects of trans acceptance and trans activism that she think threaten biological women but don't. But the problem is that people don't want to have a conversation about that nuance, in a way that might result in peopel saying "oh, okay, I was worried about that but I now see it's not a concern." Instead, they scream that she's a bigot, ban her books, posture online about how they hate her, and never actually engage the conversation. Which has just entrenched her into some of her incorrect views.

But if we could start from the premise that "Trans women are women but there are some differences between biological and trans women (and also some commonalities between trans men and biological women, and between trans women and biological men), so when we set policy and make laws, we should consider that sometimes the lines will be drawn differently in order to ensure everyone's rights are protected and that vulnerable groups are not erased or exploited."

I mean, yeah, that doesn't fit on a sign you might hold outside a bookstore to protest an author you've decided is a stupid bigot, and it's not as catchy. But it has the benefit of being more true and more useful in terms of actually describing the world as it is.

Go ahead and call me a TERF now.

Can you say that black women are in some ways different than white women in some ways? We know it’s true when treated them for medical conditions.

You mean this black and trans women are women but they are different than white and biological women, respectively.

Black women and white women are biologically the same. Race is a social construct. The medical differences you reference are genetic, not based on skin color. They are based on historical periods of people within a specific group only having kids with one another, not the actual color of someone's skin, and as a result there are black women who . Most of the differences between how we treat white women and black women in medical settings are based on racism, not science.

But good job trying to take an uncontroversial statement ("there are differences between trans women and biological women") and make it racist.

You know what's interesting? You never hear the phrase "Trans men are men, period." Because not only would it not make sense, it would be dangerous. Trans men, for instance, need access to medical care for biological women. So treating trans men as different than biological men, in this specific respect, actually helps ensure that trans men get access to needed medical care. Common sense!

Or maybe most men DGAF if there are more men.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Gen Z will not push back on this topic.

The only ones who are speaking out, like the women's swim team 2nd place winner who lost 1st place to a transwoman, are saying that they were afraid to speak out for fear of losing their place on the swim team.

These women are too young to know what's at stake. They will figure it out soon enough.

No, I doubt it.

They're accustomed to co-ed dressing rooms, co-ed dorms, co-ed gyms. They won't know any better.

Kind of like how the millennials got a rude awakening that there wasn't as much equality as they thought there was. Like I said, they will wake up eventually.

No, they already understand it’s not big deal and it’s better to be inclusive.

Lol, who do you think you are? You are not the spokesperson for every group.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

Transwomen are not women. They are trans-women. There's a hyphen there. They are not the same as me. They can identify differently than men but they are not the same as a biological woman. I have a completely different set of biological and medical concerns than a trans women, and a trans women has different medical concerns than I do. We also have different social and cultural issues which plague us.

Why are we so black and white? Is the English language and our cultural construct limited to two categories? No, we can have a third, or fourth, if needed. They are not women, who were born women and have never previously been men. They are trans-women, who were once men. Different groups entirely. This is really not rocket science.

This. The problem is that people have decided that "trans women are women PERIOD" is the definition of trans acceptance, and anything else is bigotry.

So Rowling is a bigot because she dares to say "but wait, aren't trans women different than biological women in some ways?" Like that's some kind of radical statement. But it's true on its face.

Rowling does get some things wrong. There are aspects of trans acceptance and trans activism that she think threaten biological women but don't. But the problem is that people don't want to have a conversation about that nuance, in a way that might result in peopel saying "oh, okay, I was worried about that but I now see it's not a concern." Instead, they scream that she's a bigot, ban her books, posture online about how they hate her, and never actually engage the conversation. Which has just entrenched her into some of her incorrect views.

But if we could start from the premise that "Trans women are women but there are some differences between biological and trans women (and also some commonalities between trans men and biological women, and between trans women and biological men), so when we set policy and make laws, we should consider that sometimes the lines will be drawn differently in order to ensure everyone's rights are protected and that vulnerable groups are not erased or exploited."

I mean, yeah, that doesn't fit on a sign you might hold outside a bookstore to protest an author you've decided is a stupid bigot, and it's not as catchy. But it has the benefit of being more true and more useful in terms of actually describing the world as it is.

Go ahead and call me a TERF now.

Can you say that black women are in some ways different than white women in some ways? We know it’s true when treated them for medical conditions.

You mean this black and trans women are women but they are different than white and biological women, respectively.

Black women and white women are biologically the same. Race is a social construct. The medical differences you reference are genetic, not based on skin color. They are based on historical periods of people within a specific group only having kids with one another, not the actual color of someone's skin, and as a result there are black women who . Most of the differences between how we treat white women and black women in medical settings are based on racism, not science.

But good job trying to take an uncontroversial statement ("there are differences between trans women and biological women") and make it racist.

You know what's interesting? You never hear the phrase "Trans men are men, period." Because not only would it not make sense, it would be dangerous. Trans men, for instance, need access to medical care for biological women. So treating trans men as different than biological men, in this specific respect, actually helps ensure that trans men get access to needed medical care. Common sense!

Or maybe most men DGAF if there are more men.

Not even remotely the same. Transmen aren't redefining men in way that suits their agenda. Men would never tolerate it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

Trans women cannot get pregnant and do not menstruate. So they do not have a period. So no, they are not identical to biological women.

There are all types of cis-women as well. Some who can’t get pregnant and some who don’t menstruate.

Those bodily functions don’t define women.

Are there cis-women who NEVER menstruate? Asking out of curiosity because I don't know. Obviously all cis-women eventually stop menstruating and can no longer get pregnant. And there is a non-insignificant number of cis-women who may not be able to get pregnant or may not be able to carry a pregnancy to term without intervention or significant health risk.

But I was no aware that there may be cis-women who simply never start menstruating. I would be curious to know if that is true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

It means be inclusive. Transgender women will fit in wherever they can, just as cisgender women do. We are all individuals and there isn’t a cookie cutter “woman” mold that we all fit into.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

Trans women cannot get pregnant and do not menstruate. So they do not have a period. So no, they are not identical to biological women.

There are all types of cis-women as well. Some who can’t get pregnant and some who don’t menstruate.

Those bodily functions don’t define women.

So then I guess it’s just high heels and skirts? I truly, respectfully don’t understand. Why bother call themselves women at all, if the things that most women thinks makes them women, actually don’t?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

Sure, the kid raised as a privileged male who goes off to college, changes their name and starts wearing dresses totally gets the experiences, the attitudes, the expectations, the hormonal events that have shaped my life as a woman. Totally.

There isn’t one universal experience for women.

Going through female puberty is pretty close to universal and the implications are far reaching.

No it’s not.

How so? How would a biological woman who identifies as a woman in adulthood not have gone through female puberty?

My niece, to give you one elementary example, did not go through puberty on her own. An endocrinologist had to intervene because of an autoimmune disorder.

My cousin never had puberty due to chemotherapy as a child, they had hormone replacement therapy that never really worked.

[Anonymous]

I have no problem saying trans women are women, socially speaking. But I strongly disagree with “women period”. Because that is then used to argue that biology doesn’t make us women and womanhood is something that you can declare, and not an intrinsic part of our being. Something is deeply wrong when society asks itself “what’s a woman” and we are being told from the outside - once again - what defines a woman and how we should feel about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

Sure, the kid raised as a privileged male who goes off to college, changes their name and starts wearing dresses totally gets the experiences, the attitudes, the expectations, the hormonal events that have shaped my life as a woman. Totally.

There isn’t one universal experience for women.

Going through female puberty is pretty close to universal and the implications are far reaching.

No it’s not.

How so? How would a biological woman who identifies as a woman in adulthood not have gone through female puberty?

My niece, to give you one elementary example, did not go through puberty on her own. An endocrinologist had to intervene because of an autoimmune disorder.

My cousin never had puberty due to chemotherapy as a child, they had hormone replacement therapy that never really worked.

Go back a few posts to where is wrote “pretty close to universal.” These are anomalies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

It means be inclusive. Transgender women will fit in wherever they can, just as cisgender women do. We are all individuals and there isn’t a cookie cutter “woman” mold that we all fit into.

Then there is no PERIOD and it's open ended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

Transwomen are not women. They are trans-women. There's a hyphen there. They are not the same as me. They can identify differently than men but they are not the same as a biological woman. I have a completely different set of biological and medical concerns than a trans women, and a trans women has different medical concerns than I do. We also have different social and cultural issues which plague us.

Why are we so black and white? Is the English language and our cultural construct limited to two categories? No, we can have a third, or fourth, if needed. They are not women, who were born women and have never previously been men. They are trans-women, who were once men. Different groups entirely. This is really not rocket science.

This. The problem is that people have decided that "trans women are women PERIOD" is the definition of trans acceptance, and anything else is bigotry.

So Rowling is a bigot because she dares to say "but wait, aren't trans women different than biological women in some ways?" Like that's some kind of radical statement. But it's true on its face.

Rowling does get some things wrong. There are aspects of trans acceptance and trans activism that she think threaten biological women but don't. But the problem is that people don't want to have a conversation about that nuance, in a way that might result in peopel saying "oh, okay, I was worried about that but I now see it's not a concern." Instead, they scream that she's a bigot, ban her books, posture online about how they hate her, and never actually engage the conversation. Which has just entrenched her into some of her incorrect views.

But if we could start from the premise that "Trans women are women but there are some differences between biological and trans women (and also some commonalities between trans men and biological women, and between trans women and biological men), so when we set policy and make laws, we should consider that sometimes the lines will be drawn differently in order to ensure everyone's rights are protected and that vulnerable groups are not erased or exploited."

I mean, yeah, that doesn't fit on a sign you might hold outside a bookstore to protest an author you've decided is a stupid bigot, and it's not as catchy. But it has the benefit of being more true and more useful in terms of actually describing the world as it is.

Go ahead and call me a TERF now.

Can you say that black women are in some ways different than white women in some ways? We know it’s true when treated them for medical conditions.

You mean this black and trans women are women but they are different than white and biological women, respectively.

Black women and white women are biologically the same. Race is a social construct. The medical differences you reference are genetic, not based on skin color. They are based on historical periods of people within a specific group only having kids with one another, not the actual color of someone's skin, and as a result there are black women who . Most of the differences between how we treat white women and black women in medical settings are based on racism, not science.

But good job trying to take an uncontroversial statement ("there are differences between trans women and biological women") and make it racist.

You know what's interesting? You never hear the phrase "Trans men are men, period." Because not only would it not make sense, it would be dangerous. Trans men, for instance, need access to medical care for biological women. So treating trans men as different than biological men, in this specific respect, actually helps ensure that trans men get access to needed medical care. Common sense!

Or maybe most men DGAF if there are more men.

Actually, trans men care about this issue a lot, since it impacts their access the necessary medical care. If you knew any trans men, you'd know this. But like a lot of people who like to speak authoritatively on this issue by jumping on the "Rowling is a TERF, Trans Women are Women PERIOD, everyone how argues even about minor nuances in this statement is a bigot!" train, you are uneducated on this subject and have not thought it through. Good work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

Trans women cannot get pregnant and do not menstruate. So they do not have a period. So no, they are not identical to biological women.

There are all types of cis-women as well. Some who can’t get pregnant and some who don’t menstruate.

Those bodily functions don’t define women.

So then I guess it’s just high heels and skirts? I truly, respectfully don’t understand. Why bother call themselves women at all, if the things that most women thinks makes them women, actually don’t?

No, women are certainly NOT defined by high heels and skirts.

The point is that those things don’t “make” people women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

Sure, the kid raised as a privileged male who goes off to college, changes their name and starts wearing dresses totally gets the experiences, the attitudes, the expectations, the hormonal events that have shaped my life as a woman. Totally.

There isn’t one universal experience for women.

Going through female puberty is pretty close to universal and the implications are far reaching.

No it’s not.

How so? How would a biological woman who identifies as a woman in adulthood not have gone through female puberty?

My niece, to give you one elementary example, did not go through puberty on her own. An endocrinologist had to intervene because of an autoimmune disorder.

My cousin never had puberty due to chemotherapy as a child, they had hormone replacement therapy that never really worked.

But these are medical anomalies due to medical conditions or treatment. That's not the same as a biological woman who simply never menstruates. Your niece received treatment for her autoimmune disorder that enabled her body to go through puberty. Your cousin was receiving a treatment that causes all kinds of abnormal physical consequences, including disrupting puberty. These are exceptions that prove the rule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was actively supporting LGBTQI rights until they decided to walk all over women's rights, at a time when hard-won gains are being reversed all over the world. Women are being marginalized, quite literally, pushed to the side, told to be quiet and make space. The words to describe us are disappearing from our lexicon, from article, and studies. We have become merely "people". While the violence against us and the hate of women continue to claim our lives and destroy our spirits.

Spot on.

Can't believe how much I was manipulated by this extreme gender ideology for years. Kinda angry with myself for letting them walk all over my boundaries, while also marginalizing my own abuse experiences.

YES. If I read about "pregnant people " anymore I will lose it.

Why? What’s the harm is there being inclusive? It doesn’t affect you. You can still say woman.

It doesn't affect me ? Yes it does affect me. The way people refer to me affects me. I am a woman and would like to be called a woman. People are coming up with all sorts of pronouns they want others to use but women have to suck it up and be called people because it makes others more comfortable?

We are all people. Nothing wrong with that.

This is gaslighting and you know it.

Yes, this is akin to "all lives matter". This inclusiveness nonsense is only used as a tool to deprive women or minorities of their sense of identity.

I like this analogy.

I really think an analogy could be made. Women, like black people and other groups have a sense of identity and belonging that is perceived as a threat by the "oppressor" (for lack of better word).

Transgender women certainly know what it’s like to be oppressed. Just look at this thread.

No one is disputing that. Instead PPs are disputing if transwomen are oppressed in exactly the same way as biological women and whether it therefore make sense to see the same groups as identical in all respects.

Nobody sees them as “identical in all respects” so…

They don't? I think you're the one who is confused.

Who sees them as “identical in all respects”? Even cis-women aren’t all “identical in all aspects”.

Transwomen are women. PERIOD. What does that mean to you? Kind of like women, but not really?

It means be inclusive. Transgender women will fit in wherever they can, just as cisgender women do. We are all individuals and there isn’t a cookie cutter “woman” mold that we all fit into.

Then there is no PERIOD and it's open ended.

It’s all about context. Just like it is for every cisgender woman.