NOT redshirting an August birthday

[Anonymous]

I don't know anyone who opposes all redshirting on principle.

Some people, me included, impose redshirting for the purposes of gaining an advantage (redshirting a developmentally normal kid who is otherwise totally ready for K simply to ensure that they are physically bigger and more academically advanced when they start school). I honestly don't know how you defend that.

And some people also dislike the trend of redshirting when it results in so many students in a class being redshirted that it makes it hard to start your kid on time.

To take the example above, add a third child.

Child 1 starts K at age 4, "on time", and turns 5 a couple weeks into the school year.
Child 2 starts K at age 6, and turns 6 about 2 months before school starts.
Child 3 has an August birthday and if he starts on time, he'd be in that class with Child 1 and 2.

Assume all 3 kids are developmentally normal for their ages and have been deemed "ready" for K.

The "anti-redshirter" as you all put it, wants Child 3 to start class on time so that her child has a student closer in age in his classroom. It's not an opposition to holding back kids who are behind or need more time. It's the fear that their kid will be the only child at their end of the age spectrum for the grade, at the same time that the spectrum is being widened to include children more than a year older than their kid.

If Child 3 is redshirted, that then puts pressure on Child 1's parents to redshirt him as well. Because initially their kid would have been on the young side but within the range of normal for their grade. But now the kids nearest their kid have been redshirted, and there will be redshirted kids from the previous year in the class. "Average maturity" and "readiness for K" suddenly means something else.

In schools where fully half of the class is redshirted (which does happen, especially in affluent districts), this is a real problem for parents who want to start their kids on time. It's not even about being opposed to redshirting as a concept, it's about feeling like their choices are to send their kid on time with a class of children who are significantly older, or redshirt their kid who they think is read socially and academically for K. It's a shitty choice that is caused by the choices of other parents.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It’s dumbing kids down, letting a kid repeat a year with younger kids and not be challenged, in the name of ensuring you have a boy who is the biggest and oldest in a class because he’s like a full year older in some cases. For what reason? Being able to push the kids who go on time off the slide? Or be the first picked for teams in gym class? Some of the kids in my son’s 1st grade and daughter’s 3rd grade classes were spring kids held back and there are more than a year older than my kids who I sent on time.

This. To be clear, I am not against redshirting when it is merited. You can absolutely assess kindergarten readiness, and there are kids who are not ready, either cognitively or socio-emotionally. I think another year of preschool for those kids, to work on those skills and set them up for success (and by success, I mean the ability to meet grade-level goals, not the ability to dominate over the entire class) is a great idea. I don't even think it has to be limited to

But it's selfish to hold back a kid who is otherwise ready just because of his late birthday or size. In every class, some kids will be younger. Some kids will be smaller. It's part of the normal variation and it's fine. When you redshirt for these reasons, what you are really saying is "I want someone else's kid to be the youngest, I want someone else's kid to be the smallest." Okay, but where does that end? Let your kid go to school with the children his own age, and have some faith in him that he will figure it out.

+1. I totally agree. Unless you have a child with developmental and academic delays, let them go to school on time. Let them learn new content, be challenged, gain new skills. I think some parents really infantilize their kids, and that’s more about them not wanting to let kids grow up than the kid being ready to go to actual school. My cousin was red shirted a few years ago because his parents thought it was the right thing because they had heard people discussing it so much, and is now the oldest in his third grade classroom. He told my sister that some kids tease him that he is “dumb” because he was held back and is so much older than pretty much everyone. He is doing fine academically but she wishes she had just sent him on time because this side of the social stuff wasn’t even on her mind and now it has become a thing for my nephew.

I think this is absolutely a thing - I remember a few kids when I was younger that were old for their grade and there were a lot of rumors they were "held back" for being dumb basically. People think they're giving their kids an advantage but it's totally artificial and everyone knows it, especially their peers. The "smartest kid in their class" that stands a head taller than the rest of them would only be average if they were actually in a class with their same aged peers. I don't get why parents do this, but just know everyone is judging you.

Spoken like someone with a December birthday. Newsflash: Summer birthdays will either be the youngest or the oldest. Your bully of a child will pick on someone for being the youngest too. I’d prefer oldest, obviously some people here prefer youngest. YMMV.

No one in my house has a December birthday and my child isn’t a bully. Project much?

Spoken like someone with a bully of a child.

Look, I am sorry that the truth hurts. Neither I nor anyone in my family would bully someone, but I definitely saw it happen and what I posted reflects what most people think. We all know that you had to give your kid an advantage by making them a year older than their classmates. All of a sudden, an average student seems super smart because they are a year ahead in development. You think you found a short cut, but you didn't.

Your truth isn't everybody's truth. I have never seen what you're talking about. If you think people are short changing their kids, why on earth do you care so much? Is it an advantage or not because you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Make up your mind and then maybe your point will make sense.

Let me dumb it down for you. If you red shirt your kid, people are absolutely judging you and them and talking behind your back. Some of that may bleed into how the other kids treat your kid at school. But probably no one is going to say anything to you as the parent, we will just be thinking it. But this is an anonymous forum so people can say what they really think.

Just because you are judgemental doesn’t mean everyone is. I mean an immature redshirted late august kid will be only a few months older than the rest of the fall birthday kids - it won’t be noticiable and most parents are too stressed with their own lives to care not to mention judge. It is way better to redshirt than to be forced to hold a kid back when they are older that is much more notícible and yes kids may judge.

Yes, its noticed because they are immature for their age and not in an age appropriate grade, so its very noticeable.

That makes no sense. If they are redshirted then it doesn’t matter if they were immature for their age they are now mature enough by starting with a younger cohort. That’s the whole point of redshirting. Sending them with a cohort that they blend in well with Versus one they are too immature for. I can tell you it’s the kids who skip grades who are noticibly immature. I went to high school with some 12 year olds and being super smart does not make one socially mature. (Im a mid August birthday btw and no issues with being one of the youngest in my class.)

You cannot make a child more mature by changing their grade. Maturity is by age, not grade.

Well if someone is immature for their age e.g. a 5 y.o that has the maturity level of a four year old - they will not seem immature in a group of 4 year olds. They will seem immature in a group of five year olds. Thus while redshirting does not help them be more mature for their age it helps them by making their lack if maturity invisible in a younger age cohort. The red shirted kid will not seem immature in the younger cohort and fit better in with younger peers.

The kids who skip a grade or two May not be immature for their age but will seem immature in a cohort of kids 2 years older than they are (like the 12 year olds in ninth grade)

Possibly. Though it can depend on their physical maturity, too. One fear I have with redshirting, especially if you do it in a school where it's not common, is that eventually your 5 year old will be 13, and being a full year ahead of peers during puberty can be incredibly hard. Just throwing that out there. I think it's especially hard for girls but some boys are also pretty uncomfortable being the outlier.

I'd also note that one reason people dislike redshirting is that they don't want their kids to be in middle school with 14 year olds just because that 14 year old's parents though he was too small or young to attend Kindergarten on time.

There are good reasons to keep the vast majority of kids with an age cohort where the age is consistently within a 12 month span, so that they hit physical and maturity milestones at roughly the same time. If a child is significantly advanced or delayed outside the normal range of development for that 12 month span, that's an argument for redshirting or skipping a grade. But doing it as a matter of course really messes with the dynamics of the grade. And doing it selfishly to get your kid an advantage is honestly just unkind.

Full disclosure my kid has a May birthday (and is 97th percentile in height) so the decision to redshirt is not one I will be personally making.

However I think the maturity difference is so much more critical in kindergarten/1st grade than in middle school. I totally get why parents don’t want their child to be the immature behavioral disruptive kid in 1st grade because that can set the whole tone of their education, attitude towards teachers and learning and habe long term effects on their education.

In contrast as a parent, I don’t care that some kid will be 8.5 months older than my kid rather than 3.5 months younger. (Which is what redshirting a late August birthday means) and it benefits all the kids in the class to have everyone mature enough to learn. The fewer behavioral issues due to immaturity the more the teacher can focus on teaching.

Puberty hits at sich a wide age range (like several years range) so you already have kids who hit puberty a couple years apart.

OP should do what is best for her kid today (although not clear that would be redshirting - seems a little early to tell.))

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know anyone who opposes all redshirting on principle.

Some people, me included, impose redshirting for the purposes of gaining an advantage (redshirting a developmentally normal kid who is otherwise totally ready for K simply to ensure that they are physically bigger and more academically advanced when they start school). I honestly don't know how you defend that.

And some people also dislike the trend of redshirting when it results in so many students in a class being redshirted that it makes it hard to start your kid on time.

To take the example above, add a third child.

Child 1 starts K at age 4, "on time", and turns 5 a couple weeks into the school year.
Child 2 starts K at age 6, and turns 6 about 2 months before school starts.
Child 3 has an August birthday and if he starts on time, he'd be in that class with Child 1 and 2.

Assume all 3 kids are developmentally normal for their ages and have been deemed "ready" for K.

The "anti-redshirter" as you all put it, wants Child 3 to start class on time so that her child has a student closer in age in his classroom. It's not an opposition to holding back kids who are behind or need more time. It's the fear that their kid will be the only child at their end of the age spectrum for the grade, at the same time that the spectrum is being widened to include children more than a year older than their kid.

If Child 3 is redshirted, that then puts pressure on Child 1's parents to redshirt him as well. Because initially their kid would have been on the young side but within the range of normal for their grade. But now the kids nearest their kid have been redshirted, and there will be redshirted kids from the previous year in the class. "Average maturity" and "readiness for K" suddenly means something else.

In schools where fully half of the class is redshirted (which does happen, especially in affluent districts), this is a real problem for parents who want to start their kids on time. It's not even about being opposed to redshirting as a concept, it's about feeling like their choices are to send their kid on time with a class of children who are significantly older, or redshirt their kid who they think is read socially and academically for K. It's a shitty choice that is caused by the choices of other parents.

You’ve written the same thing over and over. It is still a bunch of whiny ridiculous nonsense no matter how many duplicate essays you write.

I’m the one with the teens who has had multiple years of kids over a year older with my kids, and who didn’t redshirt, for reference.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It’s dumbing kids down, letting a kid repeat a year with younger kids and not be challenged, in the name of ensuring you have a boy who is the biggest and oldest in a class because he’s like a full year older in some cases. For what reason? Being able to push the kids who go on time off the slide? Or be the first picked for teams in gym class? Some of the kids in my son’s 1st grade and daughter’s 3rd grade classes were spring kids held back and there are more than a year older than my kids who I sent on time.

This. To be clear, I am not against redshirting when it is merited. You can absolutely assess kindergarten readiness, and there are kids who are not ready, either cognitively or socio-emotionally. I think another year of preschool for those kids, to work on those skills and set them up for success (and by success, I mean the ability to meet grade-level goals, not the ability to dominate over the entire class) is a great idea. I don't even think it has to be limited to

But it's selfish to hold back a kid who is otherwise ready just because of his late birthday or size. In every class, some kids will be younger. Some kids will be smaller. It's part of the normal variation and it's fine. When you redshirt for these reasons, what you are really saying is "I want someone else's kid to be the youngest, I want someone else's kid to be the smallest." Okay, but where does that end? Let your kid go to school with the children his own age, and have some faith in him that he will figure it out.

+1. I totally agree. Unless you have a child with developmental and academic delays, let them go to school on time. Let them learn new content, be challenged, gain new skills. I think some parents really infantilize their kids, and that’s more about them not wanting to let kids grow up than the kid being ready to go to actual school. My cousin was red shirted a few years ago because his parents thought it was the right thing because they had heard people discussing it so much, and is now the oldest in his third grade classroom. He told my sister that some kids tease him that he is “dumb” because he was held back and is so much older than pretty much everyone. He is doing fine academically but she wishes she had just sent him on time because this side of the social stuff wasn’t even on her mind and now it has become a thing for my nephew.

I think this is absolutely a thing - I remember a few kids when I was younger that were old for their grade and there were a lot of rumors they were "held back" for being dumb basically. People think they're giving their kids an advantage but it's totally artificial and everyone knows it, especially their peers. The "smartest kid in their class" that stands a head taller than the rest of them would only be average if they were actually in a class with their same aged peers. I don't get why parents do this, but just know everyone is judging you.

Spoken like someone with a December birthday. Newsflash: Summer birthdays will either be the youngest or the oldest. Your bully of a child will pick on someone for being the youngest too. I’d prefer oldest, obviously some people here prefer youngest. YMMV.

No one in my house has a December birthday and my child isn’t a bully. Project much?

Spoken like someone with a bully of a child.

Look, I am sorry that the truth hurts. Neither I nor anyone in my family would bully someone, but I definitely saw it happen and what I posted reflects what most people think. We all know that you had to give your kid an advantage by making them a year older than their classmates. All of a sudden, an average student seems super smart because they are a year ahead in development. You think you found a short cut, but you didn't.

Your truth isn't everybody's truth. I have never seen what you're talking about. If you think people are short changing their kids, why on earth do you care so much? Is it an advantage or not because you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Make up your mind and then maybe your point will make sense.

Let me dumb it down for you. If you red shirt your kid, people are absolutely judging you and them and talking behind your back. Some of that may bleed into how the other kids treat your kid at school. But probably no one is going to say anything to you as the parent, we will just be thinking it. But this is an anonymous forum so people can say what they really think.

Just because you are judgemental doesn’t mean everyone is. I mean an immature redshirted late august kid will be only a few months older than the rest of the fall birthday kids - it won’t be noticiable and most parents are too stressed with their own lives to care not to mention judge. It is way better to redshirt than to be forced to hold a kid back when they are older that is much more notícible and yes kids may judge.

Yes, its noticed because they are immature for their age and not in an age appropriate grade, so its very noticeable.

That makes no sense. If they are redshirted then it doesn’t matter if they were immature for their age they are now mature enough by starting with a younger cohort. That’s the whole point of redshirting. Sending them with a cohort that they blend in well with Versus one they are too immature for. I can tell you it’s the kids who skip grades who are noticibly immature. I went to high school with some 12 year olds and being super smart does not make one socially mature. (Im a mid August birthday btw and no issues with being one of the youngest in my class.)

You cannot make a child more mature by changing their grade. Maturity is by age, not grade.

Well if someone is immature for their age e.g. a 5 y.o that has the maturity level of a four year old - they will not seem immature in a group of 4 year olds. They will seem immature in a group of five year olds. Thus while redshirting does not help them be more mature for their age it helps them by making their lack if maturity invisible in a younger age cohort. The red shirted kid will not seem immature in the younger cohort and fit better in with younger peers.

The kids who skip a grade or two May not be immature for their age but will seem immature in a cohort of kids 2 years older than they are (like the 12 year olds in ninth grade)

Possibly. Though it can depend on their physical maturity, too. One fear I have with redshirting, especially if you do it in a school where it's not common, is that eventually your 5 year old will be 13, and being a full year ahead of peers during puberty can be incredibly hard. Just throwing that out there. I think it's especially hard for girls but some boys are also pretty uncomfortable being the outlier.

I'd also note that one reason people dislike redshirting is that they don't want their kids to be in middle school with 14 year olds just because that 14 year old's parents though he was too small or young to attend Kindergarten on time.

There are good reasons to keep the vast majority of kids with an age cohort where the age is consistently within a 12 month span, so that they hit physical and maturity milestones at roughly the same time. If a child is significantly advanced or delayed outside the normal range of development for that 12 month span, that's an argument for redshirting or skipping a grade. But doing it as a matter of course really messes with the dynamics of the grade. And doing it selfishly to get your kid an advantage is honestly just unkind.

Full disclosure my kid has a May birthday (and is 97th percentile in height) so the decision to redshirt is not one I will be personally making.

However I think the maturity difference is so much more critical in kindergarten/1st grade than in middle school. I totally get why parents don’t want their child to be the immature behavioral disruptive kid in 1st grade because that can set the whole tone of their education, attitude towards teachers and learning and habe long term effects on their education.

In contrast as a parent, I don’t care that some kid will be 8.5 months older than my kid rather than 3.5 months younger. (Which is what redshirting a late August birthday means) and it benefits all the kids in the class to have everyone mature enough to learn. The fewer behavioral issues due to immaturity the more the teacher can focus on teaching.

Puberty hits at sich a wide age range (like several years range) so you already have kids who hit puberty a couple years apart.

OP should do what is best for her kid today (although not clear that would be redshirting - seems a little early to tell.))

Come MS and HS many classes are mixed ages/grades so some of it is also silly then too. My 9th grader will take math with 10-11th graders. Same in MS, they took math with HS level kids.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It’s dumbing kids down, letting a kid repeat a year with younger kids and not be challenged, in the name of ensuring you have a boy who is the biggest and oldest in a class because he’s like a full year older in some cases. For what reason? Being able to push the kids who go on time off the slide? Or be the first picked for teams in gym class? Some of the kids in my son’s 1st grade and daughter’s 3rd grade classes were spring kids held back and there are more than a year older than my kids who I sent on time.

This. To be clear, I am not against redshirting when it is merited. You can absolutely assess kindergarten readiness, and there are kids who are not ready, either cognitively or socio-emotionally. I think another year of preschool for those kids, to work on those skills and set them up for success (and by success, I mean the ability to meet grade-level goals, not the ability to dominate over the entire class) is a great idea. I don't even think it has to be limited to

But it's selfish to hold back a kid who is otherwise ready just because of his late birthday or size. In every class, some kids will be younger. Some kids will be smaller. It's part of the normal variation and it's fine. When you redshirt for these reasons, what you are really saying is "I want someone else's kid to be the youngest, I want someone else's kid to be the smallest." Okay, but where does that end? Let your kid go to school with the children his own age, and have some faith in him that he will figure it out.

+1. I totally agree. Unless you have a child with developmental and academic delays, let them go to school on time. Let them learn new content, be challenged, gain new skills. I think some parents really infantilize their kids, and that’s more about them not wanting to let kids grow up than the kid being ready to go to actual school. My cousin was red shirted a few years ago because his parents thought it was the right thing because they had heard people discussing it so much, and is now the oldest in his third grade classroom. He told my sister that some kids tease him that he is “dumb” because he was held back and is so much older than pretty much everyone. He is doing fine academically but she wishes she had just sent him on time because this side of the social stuff wasn’t even on her mind and now it has become a thing for my nephew.

I think this is absolutely a thing - I remember a few kids when I was younger that were old for their grade and there were a lot of rumors they were "held back" for being dumb basically. People think they're giving their kids an advantage but it's totally artificial and everyone knows it, especially their peers. The "smartest kid in their class" that stands a head taller than the rest of them would only be average if they were actually in a class with their same aged peers. I don't get why parents do this, but just know everyone is judging you.

Spoken like someone with a December birthday. Newsflash: Summer birthdays will either be the youngest or the oldest. Your bully of a child will pick on someone for being the youngest too. I’d prefer oldest, obviously some people here prefer youngest. YMMV.

No one in my house has a December birthday and my child isn’t a bully. Project much?

Spoken like someone with a bully of a child.

Look, I am sorry that the truth hurts. Neither I nor anyone in my family would bully someone, but I definitely saw it happen and what I posted reflects what most people think. We all know that you had to give your kid an advantage by making them a year older than their classmates. All of a sudden, an average student seems super smart because they are a year ahead in development. You think you found a short cut, but you didn't.

Your truth isn't everybody's truth. I have never seen what you're talking about. If you think people are short changing their kids, why on earth do you care so much? Is it an advantage or not because you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Make up your mind and then maybe your point will make sense.

Let me dumb it down for you. If you red shirt your kid, people are absolutely judging you and them and talking behind your back. Some of that may bleed into how the other kids treat your kid at school. But probably no one is going to say anything to you as the parent, we will just be thinking it. But this is an anonymous forum so people can say what they really think.

Just because you are judgemental doesn’t mean everyone is. I mean an immature redshirted late august kid will be only a few months older than the rest of the fall birthday kids - it won’t be noticiable and most parents are too stressed with their own lives to care not to mention judge. It is way better to redshirt than to be forced to hold a kid back when they are older that is much more notícible and yes kids may judge.

Yes, its noticed because they are immature for their age and not in an age appropriate grade, so its very noticeable.

That makes no sense. If they are redshirted then it doesn’t matter if they were immature for their age they are now mature enough by starting with a younger cohort. That’s the whole point of redshirting. Sending them with a cohort that they blend in well with Versus one they are too immature for. I can tell you it’s the kids who skip grades who are noticibly immature. I went to high school with some 12 year olds and being super smart does not make one socially mature. (Im a mid August birthday btw and no issues with being one of the youngest in my class.)

A lot going on in this comment.

1. A 12 year old in high school is a different deal. That's a kid who is not even through puberty going to school with kids who are mostly done with puberty. Huge difference, of course they seemed immature. It's not the subject of the thread.

2. Redshirting does not help kids mature. It might help place a child in a more appropriate cohort for their maturity level, but since we're talking entirely about summer birthdays, they are likely to be an outlier no matter what. Either on the mature side for their grade or on the immature side for their grade. Just based on age of course. Redshirting doesn't "solve" this. It's just the reality of being a summer birthday.

3. The point PPs are trying to make is that redshirting may not resolve your issue if you are just worried about your kid being an outlier. In fact, it might make them more of an outlier, because if they are visibly older than the rest of their class, that might call attention to itself.

4. Also, maturity doesn't track perfectly with the MONTH a kid was born, and the older kids get, the less it tracks. Plenty of kids with summer birthdays are as mature if not more so than kids with birthdays during the school year.

5. Which is why many people are suggesting that redshirting for the hell of it is a mistake, and that peopel should only redshirt if there is a delay of some kind which an extra year of PK would help with, including a social maturity delay.

I think there is only one PP making the same tired argument over and over again without success. If it’s such a mistake surely you have some data to back it up, lets see it. Because I don’t know a single person who regrets it. No matter how many different ways people try to make the ineffectual arguments with no facts.

We regretted it. Our child skipped a grade to make up for it.

Ok. My brother started kindergarten at 4 and school was always hard for him. My mother regretted not holding him back. Having to repeat a grade is devastating for a kid unlike skipping a grade. At least if you think a mistake is made its an easier fix. I would err on the side of redshirting in that case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know anyone who opposes all redshirting on principle.

Some people, me included, impose redshirting for the purposes of gaining an advantage (redshirting a developmentally normal kid who is otherwise totally ready for K simply to ensure that they are physically bigger and more academically advanced when they start school). I honestly don't know how you defend that.

And some people also dislike the trend of redshirting when it results in so many students in a class being redshirted that it makes it hard to start your kid on time.

To take the example above, add a third child.

Child 1 starts K at age 4, "on time", and turns 5 a couple weeks into the school year.
Child 2 starts K at age 6, and turns 6 about 2 months before school starts.
Child 3 has an August birthday and if he starts on time, he'd be in that class with Child 1 and 2.

Assume all 3 kids are developmentally normal for their ages and have been deemed "ready" for K.

The "anti-redshirter" as you all put it, wants Child 3 to start class on time so that her child has a student closer in age in his classroom. It's not an opposition to holding back kids who are behind or need more time. It's the fear that their kid will be the only child at their end of the age spectrum for the grade, at the same time that the spectrum is being widened to include children more than a year older than their kid.

If Child 3 is redshirted, that then puts pressure on Child 1's parents to redshirt him as well. Because initially their kid would have been on the young side but within the range of normal for their grade. But now the kids nearest their kid have been redshirted, and there will be redshirted kids from the previous year in the class. "Average maturity" and "readiness for K" suddenly means something else.

In schools where fully half of the class is redshirted (which does happen, especially in affluent districts), this is a real problem for parents who want to start their kids on time. It's not even about being opposed to redshirting as a concept, it's about feeling like their choices are to send their kid on time with a class of children who are significantly older, or redshirt their kid who they think is read socially and academically for K. It's a shitty choice that is caused by the choices of other parents.

Im always going to do what’s right for my kid. Full stop. You do what you need to do.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It’s dumbing kids down, letting a kid repeat a year with younger kids and not be challenged, in the name of ensuring you have a boy who is the biggest and oldest in a class because he’s like a full year older in some cases. For what reason? Being able to push the kids who go on time off the slide? Or be the first picked for teams in gym class? Some of the kids in my son’s 1st grade and daughter’s 3rd grade classes were spring kids held back and there are more than a year older than my kids who I sent on time.

This. To be clear, I am not against redshirting when it is merited. You can absolutely assess kindergarten readiness, and there are kids who are not ready, either cognitively or socio-emotionally. I think another year of preschool for those kids, to work on those skills and set them up for success (and by success, I mean the ability to meet grade-level goals, not the ability to dominate over the entire class) is a great idea. I don't even think it has to be limited to

But it's selfish to hold back a kid who is otherwise ready just because of his late birthday or size. In every class, some kids will be younger. Some kids will be smaller. It's part of the normal variation and it's fine. When you redshirt for these reasons, what you are really saying is "I want someone else's kid to be the youngest, I want someone else's kid to be the smallest." Okay, but where does that end? Let your kid go to school with the children his own age, and have some faith in him that he will figure it out.

+1. I totally agree. Unless you have a child with developmental and academic delays, let them go to school on time. Let them learn new content, be challenged, gain new skills. I think some parents really infantilize their kids, and that’s more about them not wanting to let kids grow up than the kid being ready to go to actual school. My cousin was red shirted a few years ago because his parents thought it was the right thing because they had heard people discussing it so much, and is now the oldest in his third grade classroom. He told my sister that some kids tease him that he is “dumb” because he was held back and is so much older than pretty much everyone. He is doing fine academically but she wishes she had just sent him on time because this side of the social stuff wasn’t even on her mind and now it has become a thing for my nephew.

I think this is absolutely a thing - I remember a few kids when I was younger that were old for their grade and there were a lot of rumors they were "held back" for being dumb basically. People think they're giving their kids an advantage but it's totally artificial and everyone knows it, especially their peers. The "smartest kid in their class" that stands a head taller than the rest of them would only be average if they were actually in a class with their same aged peers. I don't get why parents do this, but just know everyone is judging you.

Spoken like someone with a December birthday. Newsflash: Summer birthdays will either be the youngest or the oldest. Your bully of a child will pick on someone for being the youngest too. I’d prefer oldest, obviously some people here prefer youngest. YMMV.

No one in my house has a December birthday and my child isn’t a bully. Project much?

Spoken like someone with a bully of a child.

Look, I am sorry that the truth hurts. Neither I nor anyone in my family would bully someone, but I definitely saw it happen and what I posted reflects what most people think. We all know that you had to give your kid an advantage by making them a year older than their classmates. All of a sudden, an average student seems super smart because they are a year ahead in development. You think you found a short cut, but you didn't.

Your truth isn't everybody's truth. I have never seen what you're talking about. If you think people are short changing their kids, why on earth do you care so much? Is it an advantage or not because you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Make up your mind and then maybe your point will make sense.

Let me dumb it down for you. If you red shirt your kid, people are absolutely judging you and them and talking behind your back. Some of that may bleed into how the other kids treat your kid at school. But probably no one is going to say anything to you as the parent, we will just be thinking it. But this is an anonymous forum so people can say what they really think.

Just because you are judgemental doesn’t mean everyone is. I mean an immature redshirted late august kid will be only a few months older than the rest of the fall birthday kids - it won’t be noticiable and most parents are too stressed with their own lives to care not to mention judge. It is way better to redshirt than to be forced to hold a kid back when they are older that is much more notícible and yes kids may judge.

Yes, its noticed because they are immature for their age and not in an age appropriate grade, so its very noticeable.

That makes no sense. If they are redshirted then it doesn’t matter if they were immature for their age they are now mature enough by starting with a younger cohort. That’s the whole point of redshirting. Sending them with a cohort that they blend in well with Versus one they are too immature for. I can tell you it’s the kids who skip grades who are noticibly immature. I went to high school with some 12 year olds and being super smart does not make one socially mature. (Im a mid August birthday btw and no issues with being one of the youngest in my class.)

A lot going on in this comment.

1. A 12 year old in high school is a different deal. That's a kid who is not even through puberty going to school with kids who are mostly done with puberty. Huge difference, of course they seemed immature. It's not the subject of the thread.

2. Redshirting does not help kids mature. It might help place a child in a more appropriate cohort for their maturity level, but since we're talking entirely about summer birthdays, they are likely to be an outlier no matter what. Either on the mature side for their grade or on the immature side for their grade. Just based on age of course. Redshirting doesn't "solve" this. It's just the reality of being a summer birthday.

3. The point PPs are trying to make is that redshirting may not resolve your issue if you are just worried about your kid being an outlier. In fact, it might make them more of an outlier, because if they are visibly older than the rest of their class, that might call attention to itself.

4. Also, maturity doesn't track perfectly with the MONTH a kid was born, and the older kids get, the less it tracks. Plenty of kids with summer birthdays are as mature if not more so than kids with birthdays during the school year.

5. Which is why many people are suggesting that redshirting for the hell of it is a mistake, and that peopel should only redshirt if there is a delay of some kind which an extra year of PK would help with, including a social maturity delay.

I agree with you. Who is trying to say that summer birthdays should be redshirted more matter what? I am all for redshirting kids that need it or would benefit from it, but not if they DON’T need it. My eldest was redshirted because she was emotionally immature/insecure and benefited being around kids that were younger not older. She was born 6 days before cut off and goes to private school so she has never been the oldest in the class, but would have been the youngest by a couple of months always. I would never redshirt one of my kids if they did not really benefit from it. I have an end of May birthday boy who will be starting PK next year. I know he is ready. He has two older sisters and while a little behind academically (maybe) he is confident and strong. The AD at my kids’ school suggested holding him back (for 1 second), but I absolutely refused. He is ready and he will catch up academically. He is mature enough, not disruptive, confident, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know anyone who opposes all redshirting on principle.

Some people, me included, impose redshirting for the purposes of gaining an advantage (redshirting a developmentally normal kid who is otherwise totally ready for K simply to ensure that they are physically bigger and more academically advanced when they start school). I honestly don't know how you defend that.

And some people also dislike the trend of redshirting when it results in so many students in a class being redshirted that it makes it hard to start your kid on time.

To take the example above, add a third child.

Child 1 starts K at age 4, "on time", and turns 5 a couple weeks into the school year.
Child 2 starts K at age 6, and turns 6 about 2 months before school starts.
Child 3 has an August birthday and if he starts on time, he'd be in that class with Child 1 and 2.

Assume all 3 kids are developmentally normal for their ages and have been deemed "ready" for K.

The "anti-redshirter" as you all put it, wants Child 3 to start class on time so that her child has a student closer in age in his classroom. It's not an opposition to holding back kids who are behind or need more time. It's the fear that their kid will be the only child at their end of the age spectrum for the grade, at the same time that the spectrum is being widened to include children more than a year older than their kid.

If Child 3 is redshirted, that then puts pressure on Child 1's parents to redshirt him as well. Because initially their kid would have been on the young side but within the range of normal for their grade. But now the kids nearest their kid have been redshirted, and there will be redshirted kids from the previous year in the class. "Average maturity" and "readiness for K" suddenly means something else.

In schools where fully half of the class is redshirted (which does happen, especially in affluent districts), this is a real problem for parents who want to start their kids on time. It's not even about being opposed to redshirting as a concept, it's about feeling like their choices are to send their kid on time with a class of children who are significantly older, or redshirt their kid who they think is read socially and academically for K. It's a shitty choice that is caused by the choices of other parents.

In one of the many places with a 9/1 cut off Child 1 and 3 are the same. The simple solution for you is to choose a different school, you are clearly talking about a private school. You sound a lot like the person whose kid was too short for the school festival activities at your private school and show up on these threads again and again regretting your decision and lashing out at everyone. The problem isn't all the other parents making different choices, the problem is you chose a school with a culture that is a bad fit. And pretending that everyone hates and is gossiping about half of the students you claim are redshirted just underscores what a poor fit this school is for you since it's you who is the outsider.

[Anonymous]

We’re in MCPS and sent our august boy to K on time (just turned 5). There are 3 other kids in his classroom who also have August of the same year bdays. If your kid is ready for school, don’t hold him back just because if peer pressure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know anyone who opposes all redshirting on principle.

Some people, me included, impose redshirting for the purposes of gaining an advantage (redshirting a developmentally normal kid who is otherwise totally ready for K simply to ensure that they are physically bigger and more academically advanced when they start school). I honestly don't know how you defend that.

And some people also dislike the trend of redshirting when it results in so many students in a class being redshirted that it makes it hard to start your kid on time.

To take the example above, add a third child.

Child 1 starts K at age 4, "on time", and turns 5 a couple weeks into the school year.
Child 2 starts K at age 6, and turns 6 about 2 months before school starts.
Child 3 has an August birthday and if he starts on time, he'd be in that class with Child 1 and 2.

Assume all 3 kids are developmentally normal for their ages and have been deemed "ready" for K.

The "anti-redshirter" as you all put it, wants Child 3 to start class on time so that her child has a student closer in age in his classroom. It's not an opposition to holding back kids who are behind or need more time. It's the fear that their kid will be the only child at their end of the age spectrum for the grade, at the same time that the spectrum is being widened to include children more than a year older than their kid.

If Child 3 is redshirted, that then puts pressure on Child 1's parents to redshirt him as well. Because initially their kid would have been on the young side but within the range of normal for their grade. But now the kids nearest their kid have been redshirted, and there will be redshirted kids from the previous year in the class. "Average maturity" and "readiness for K" suddenly means something else.

In schools where fully half of the class is redshirted (which does happen, especially in affluent districts), this is a real problem for parents who want to start their kids on time. It's not even about being opposed to redshirting as a concept, it's about feeling like their choices are to send their kid on time with a class of children who are significantly older, or redshirt their kid who they think is read socially and academically for K. It's a shitty choice that is caused by the choices of other parents.

In one of the many places with a 9/1 cut off Child 1 and 3 are the same. The simple solution for you is to choose a different school, you are clearly talking about a private school. You sound a lot like the person whose kid was too short for the school festival activities at your private school and show up on these threads again and again regretting your decision and lashing out at everyone. The problem isn't all the other parents making different choices, the problem is you chose a school with a culture that is a bad fit. And pretending that everyone hates and is gossiping about half of the students you claim are redshirted just underscores what a poor fit this school is for you since it's you who is the outsider.

This comment is deranged because it assumes parents can always just choose a different school. That’s not how school works for most people? If you live in a district where redshirting is common and you have a child born close to the cutoff, there will absolutely be pressure on you to redshirt to avoid having your kid be the only child that young in their K class. And if it’s a district cutoff, what are you going to do, move? Most people do not send kids to private and can’t afford it.

It’s clear the issue is when redshirting is very common. It pushes ages in all cohorts up and puts kids close to the cut off who attend on time at a disadvantage. This is especially sn issue for families who cannot afford another year of childcare.

I don’t think anyone cares/complains about occasional redshirting for kids who have a delay of some kind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know anyone who opposes all redshirting on principle.

Some people, me included, impose redshirting for the purposes of gaining an advantage (redshirting a developmentally normal kid who is otherwise totally ready for K simply to ensure that they are physically bigger and more academically advanced when they start school). I honestly don't know how you defend that.

And some people also dislike the trend of redshirting when it results in so many students in a class being redshirted that it makes it hard to start your kid on time.

To take the example above, add a third child.

Child 1 starts K at age 4, "on time", and turns 5 a couple weeks into the school year.
Child 2 starts K at age 6, and turns 6 about 2 months before school starts.
Child 3 has an August birthday and if he starts on time, he'd be in that class with Child 1 and 2.

Assume all 3 kids are developmentally normal for their ages and have been deemed "ready" for K.

The "anti-redshirter" as you all put it, wants Child 3 to start class on time so that her child has a student closer in age in his classroom. It's not an opposition to holding back kids who are behind or need more time. It's the fear that their kid will be the only child at their end of the age spectrum for the grade, at the same time that the spectrum is being widened to include children more than a year older than their kid.

If Child 3 is redshirted, that then puts pressure on Child 1's parents to redshirt him as well. Because initially their kid would have been on the young side but within the range of normal for their grade. But now the kids nearest their kid have been redshirted, and there will be redshirted kids from the previous year in the class. "Average maturity" and "readiness for K" suddenly means something else.

In schools where fully half of the class is redshirted (which does happen, especially in affluent districts), this is a real problem for parents who want to start their kids on time. It's not even about being opposed to redshirting as a concept, it's about feeling like their choices are to send their kid on time with a class of children who are significantly older, or redshirt their kid who they think is read socially and academically for K. It's a shitty choice that is caused by the choices of other parents.

In one of the many places with a 9/1 cut off Child 1 and 3 are the same. The simple solution for you is to choose a different school, you are clearly talking about a private school. You sound a lot like the person whose kid was too short for the school festival activities at your private school and show up on these threads again and again regretting your decision and lashing out at everyone. The problem isn't all the other parents making different choices, the problem is you chose a school with a culture that is a bad fit. And pretending that everyone hates and is gossiping about half of the students you claim are redshirted just underscores what a poor fit this school is for you since it's you who is the outsider.

This comment is deranged because it assumes parents can always just choose a different school. That’s not how school works for most people? If you live in a district where redshirting is common and you have a child born close to the cutoff, there will absolutely be pressure on you to redshirt to avoid having your kid be the only child that young in their K class. And if it’s a district cutoff, what are you going to do, move? Most people do not send kids to private and can’t afford it.

It’s clear the issue is when redshirting is very common. It pushes ages in all cohorts up and puts kids close to the cut off who attend on time at a disadvantage. This is especially sn issue for families who cannot afford another year of childcare.

I don’t think anyone cares/complains about occasional redshirting for kids who have a delay of some kind.

What public school has rampant redshirting? Private schools are a choice. Name your public where this is an issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let me dumb it down for you. If you red shirt your kid, people are absolutely judging you and them and talking behind your back. Some of that may bleed into how the other kids treat your kid at school. But probably no one is going to say anything to you as the parent, we will just be thinking it. But this is an anonymous forum so people can say what they really think.

Parent of multiple older teens here who didn’t redshirt here. I have seen this, but only from and between the mean and unpopular kids nobody liked anyhow. I guess they learned it from their parents. It’s irrelevant to kids with good parents.

honestly, from my memory, it's not about the kids or parents but the teachers. teachers do gossip and judge, and they do it directly in front of the students who absorb those judgements like a sponge. Which meant I unconsciously thought that kids who were held back were somehow challenged and not quite up to par. Thanks, 4th grade math teacher. you sure were a peach.

One of my friends that i met in high school was redshirted, which meant he 1) would do contortions to avoid saying what year his birthday was, and 2) he always preferred to be hanging with his age cohort, which meant his senior year was super lonely.

At the other far extreme, my first husband skipped so many grades he went to college at 14. that was... super bad for his emotional development. I'll be watching my august toddler for signs of being too young to go to k, but for now I'm hoping she'll be ready when she's eligible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let me dumb it down for you. If you red shirt your kid, people are absolutely judging you and them and talking behind your back. Some of that may bleed into how the other kids treat your kid at school. But probably no one is going to say anything to you as the parent, we will just be thinking it. But this is an anonymous forum so people can say what they really think.

Parent of multiple older teens here who didn’t redshirt here. I have seen this, but only from and between the mean and unpopular kids nobody liked anyhow. I guess they learned it from their parents. It’s irrelevant to kids with good parents.

honestly, from my memory, it's not about the kids or parents but the teachers. teachers do gossip and judge, and they do it directly in front of the students who absorb those judgements like a sponge. Which meant I unconsciously thought that kids who were held back were somehow challenged and not quite up to par. Thanks, 4th grade math teacher. you sure were a peach.

One of my friends that i met in high school was redshirted, which meant he 1) would do contortions to avoid saying what year his birthday was, and 2) he always preferred to be hanging with his age cohort, which meant his senior year was super lonely.

At the other far extreme, my first husband skipped so many grades he went to college at 14. that was... super bad for his emotional development. I'll be watching my august toddler for signs of being too young to go to k, but for now I'm hoping she'll be ready when she's eligible.

You are very out of touch. Teachers are the ones recommending redshirting these days. They know that a mature kindergartener who can sit in their seat, fully participate in circle time, and do the academic work is far easier to manage in the classroom. Do you really think they want to make more work for themselves? They are judging the parents of the out of control young for grade children for not getting them diagnosed with ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Bravo. We greenshirted our mid September born kid. We called it “not redshirting because of some fake cutoff”. My kid would probably be the youngest in the class by a couple weeks.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It’s dumbing kids down, letting a kid repeat a year with younger kids and not be challenged, in the name of ensuring you have a boy who is the biggest and oldest in a class because he’s like a full year older in some cases. For what reason? Being able to push the kids who go on time off the slide? Or be the first picked for teams in gym class? Some of the kids in my son’s 1st grade and daughter’s 3rd grade classes were spring kids held back and there are more than a year older than my kids who I sent on time.

This. To be clear, I am not against redshirting when it is merited. You can absolutely assess kindergarten readiness, and there are kids who are not ready, either cognitively or socio-emotionally. I think another year of preschool for those kids, to work on those skills and set them up for success (and by success, I mean the ability to meet grade-level goals, not the ability to dominate over the entire class) is a great idea. I don't even think it has to be limited to

But it's selfish to hold back a kid who is otherwise ready just because of his late birthday or size. In every class, some kids will be younger. Some kids will be smaller. It's part of the normal variation and it's fine. When you redshirt for these reasons, what you are really saying is "I want someone else's kid to be the youngest, I want someone else's kid to be the smallest." Okay, but where does that end? Let your kid go to school with the children his own age, and have some faith in him that he will figure it out.

+1. I totally agree. Unless you have a child with developmental and academic delays, let them go to school on time. Let them learn new content, be challenged, gain new skills. I think some parents really infantilize their kids, and that’s more about them not wanting to let kids grow up than the kid being ready to go to actual school. My cousin was red shirted a few years ago because his parents thought it was the right thing because they had heard people discussing it so much, and is now the oldest in his third grade classroom. He told my sister that some kids tease him that he is “dumb” because he was held back and is so much older than pretty much everyone. He is doing fine academically but she wishes she had just sent him on time because this side of the social stuff wasn’t even on her mind and now it has become a thing for my nephew.

I think this is absolutely a thing - I remember a few kids when I was younger that were old for their grade and there were a lot of rumors they were "held back" for being dumb basically. People think they're giving their kids an advantage but it's totally artificial and everyone knows it, especially their peers. The "smartest kid in their class" that stands a head taller than the rest of them would only be average if they were actually in a class with their same aged peers. I don't get why parents do this, but just know everyone is judging you.

Spoken like someone with a December birthday. Newsflash: Summer birthdays will either be the youngest or the oldest. Your bully of a child will pick on someone for being the youngest too. I’d prefer oldest, obviously some people here prefer youngest. YMMV.

No one in my house has a December birthday and my child isn’t a bully. Project much?

Spoken like someone with a bully of a child.

Look, I am sorry that the truth hurts. Neither I nor anyone in my family would bully someone, but I definitely saw it happen and what I posted reflects what most people think. We all know that you had to give your kid an advantage by making them a year older than their classmates. All of a sudden, an average student seems super smart because they are a year ahead in development. You think you found a short cut, but you didn't.

Your truth isn't everybody's truth. I have never seen what you're talking about. If you think people are short changing their kids, why on earth do you care so much? Is it an advantage or not because you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Make up your mind and then maybe your point will make sense.

Let me dumb it down for you. If you red shirt your kid, people are absolutely judging you and them and talking behind your back. Some of that may bleed into how the other kids treat your kid at school. But probably no one is going to say anything to you as the parent, we will just be thinking it. But this is an anonymous forum so people can say what they really think.

Just because you are judgemental doesn’t mean everyone is. I mean an immature redshirted late august kid will be only a few months older than the rest of the fall birthday kids - it won’t be noticiable and most parents are too stressed with their own lives to care not to mention judge. It is way better to redshirt than to be forced to hold a kid back when they are older that is much more notícible and yes kids may judge.

Yes, its noticed because they are immature for their age and not in an age appropriate grade, so its very noticeable.

That makes no sense. If they are redshirted then it doesn’t matter if they were immature for their age they are now mature enough by starting with a younger cohort. That’s the whole point of redshirting. Sending them with a cohort that they blend in well with Versus one they are too immature for. I can tell you it’s the kids who skip grades who are noticibly immature. I went to high school with some 12 year olds and being super smart does not make one socially mature. (Im a mid August birthday btw and no issues with being one of the youngest in my class.)

A lot going on in this comment.

1. A 12 year old in high school is a different deal. That's a kid who is not even through puberty going to school with kids who are mostly done with puberty. Huge difference, of course they seemed immature. It's not the subject of the thread.

2. Redshirting does not help kids mature. It might help place a child in a more appropriate cohort for their maturity level, but since we're talking entirely about summer birthdays, they are likely to be an outlier no matter what. Either on the mature side for their grade or on the immature side for their grade. Just based on age of course. Redshirting doesn't "solve" this. It's just the reality of being a summer birthday.

3. The point PPs are trying to make is that redshirting may not resolve your issue if you are just worried about your kid being an outlier. In fact, it might make them more of an outlier, because if they are visibly older than the rest of their class, that might call attention to itself.

4. Also, maturity doesn't track perfectly with the MONTH a kid was born, and the older kids get, the less it tracks. Plenty of kids with summer birthdays are as mature if not more so than kids with birthdays during the school year.

5. Which is why many people are suggesting that redshirting for the hell of it is a mistake, and that peopel should only redshirt if there is a delay of some kind which an extra year of PK would help with, including a social maturity delay.

I think there is only one PP making the same tired argument over and over again without success. If it’s such a mistake surely you have some data to back it up, lets see it. Because I don’t know a single person who regrets it. No matter how many different ways people try to make the ineffectual arguments with no facts.

We regretted it. Our child skipped a grade to make up for it.

Ok. My brother started kindergarten at 4 and school was always hard for him. My mother regretted not holding him back. Having to repeat a grade is devastating for a kid unlike skipping a grade. At least if you think a mistake is made its an easier fix. I would err on the side of redshirting in that case.

Uhh, no. While you may be right that staying back would be harder on a kid that skiping a grade, it is very, very, very rare that you would be able ot skip.