Diversity and "Equity" are each other's enemies... discuss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Advanced kids are shamed for everything good they do to get ahead. "your parents are married" - privilege. "Your parents are not drinking and doing drugs"- privilege. "You are studying hard at school" - privilege. The culture of shaming academically advanced, motivated and good kids was at first only contained to a particular community. Now they are spreading the contagion.

The people so vocal about "privilege" have zero awareness how much "privilege" there is just by living in America. I'm not saying everything is perfect but a poor kid in America has much more "privilege" than some poor kid in your average African or Middle Eastern village. I never hear that mentioned for some reason.

[Anonymous]

Everyone is celebrated as diverse except if you're a white man. Then you're just treated like an ahole.white is no longer allowed to exhibit pride, or excellence, unless you come from another country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone is celebrated as diverse except if you're a white man. Then you're just treated like an ahole.white is no longer allowed to exhibit pride, or excellence, unless you come from another country.

When’s the last time Progressives celebrated Asians? Their academic excellence is just a result of prepping. They are just products of their Tiger moms. Or so they say…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone is celebrated as diverse except if you're a white man. Then you're just treated like an ahole.white is no longer allowed to exhibit pride, or excellence, unless you come from another country.

When’s the last time Progressives celebrated Asians? Their academic excellence is just a result of prepping. They are just products of their Tiger moms. Or so they say…

Or Jews!

You know, the reason they do so well everywhere is that everyone loves them and is always trying to give them a hand...

[Anonymous]

Diversity is important but if your a white strait make you're basically fuqued.

[Anonymous]

If you're a white strait male you might have gotten the short end of the stick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot on DCUM (who have generational wealth and are into all the wordsmith theory going on nowadays) don't realize that the old system did work to raise people up from the bottom if you had a strong support system.

I grew up lower middle class. My parents (yes, I had an involved father) instilled in me a hard work ethic and stressed that only through education would I make more money than them. I didn't have tutors, but I was in honors, ignored all the others trying to get me to skip school in high school, got good grades and now am part of the upper 10%. My children have had an easier start than I did.

If there isn't familial support, the equity steps taken won't matter except on paper by bringing people like my children down.

You were privileged to grow up in a 2-parent household.

For some races, 69% of kids are born to unwed mothers:
https://www.childtrends.org/publications/dramatic-increase-in-percentage-of-births-outside-marriage-among-whites-hispanics-and-women-with-higher-education-levels

Yes, and the vast majority of those women made choices that resulted in that situation. And they then make choices that make that situation permanent. But unless you support the state taking those kids and putting them in foster care, the mothers have made choices that will impact their children's entire lives, despite the best efforts of schools. BTW - the statistic showing children in single parent homes by race exactly mirrors academic performance by race.

People's choices are not made in a vacuum.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think a lot on DCUM (who have generational wealth and are into all the wordsmith theory going on nowadays) don't realize that the old system did work to raise people up from the bottom if you had a strong support system.

I grew up lower middle class. My parents (yes, I had an involved father) instilled in me a hard work ethic and stressed that only through education would I make more money than them. I didn't have tutors, but I was in honors, ignored all the others trying to get me to skip school in high school, got good grades and now am part of the upper 10%. My children have had an easier start than I did.

If there isn't familial support, the equity steps taken won't matter except on paper by bringing people like my children down.

You were privileged to grow up in a 2-parent household.

For some races, 69% of kids are born to unwed mothers:
https://www.childtrends.org/publications/dramatic-increase-in-percentage-of-births-outside-marriage-among-whites-hispanics-and-women-with-higher-education-levels

That’s the consequence of poor decision making.

The child has no say in that.

Yep it’s unfortunate. But punishing my kid for the sins of their parents doesn’t fix that problem. Bottom line is that schools can’t fix shitty parents.

Single parent \= “shitty parent”

Especially considering the parent who is the “single parent” is the one who stepped up to the plate.

Agreed, but one of the two parents probably is.

That’s not to say that divorced/unwed parents can’t successfully raise a child to not need equitable measures. It for sure happens.

This. One of the parent is the shitty parent. This is especially true in the poor black communities where many fathers are incarcerated. Those that are not, many abandon their responsibilities to their kid and could care less. I have a good friend in this situation but she is lucky because she has support from her family and they are helping to raise him. These kids have no strong father figures at all.

The single moms with no support are working to support the family so no one is at home watching the kids. They then get into trouble, hang out with the wrong crowd, etc….

The other issue is that some households with 2 parents, they just don’t give a sh’t about the kids and are just unfit to be parents. Ask a teacher in a title 1 school about that and they can easily tell you the percentages and you would be surprised.

Those kids are getting in trouble because police and school administrators are racist. It's not their fault. If you look at arrest and incarceration rates, black males are way overrepresented.

So they are being framed?

NP. There are multiple components to the systemic racism that leads to higher incarceration rates.

Redlining
Lack of generational wealth
Untreated learning disabilities
Harsher consequences at school
Lack of knowledge about education/college
Bias in hiring
Bias in arrests
Harsher sentencing

It’s pretty easy for a kid to make a few mistakes when they are young and then never be able to pull themselves out of that hole.

Where is the personal responsibility?

Generational wealth - shitty parents, a whole bunch of them but realistically, there are tons of normal everyday middle class Americans of all colors without generational wealth.
Untreated learning disabilities - shitty parents
Lack of knowledge about college - shitty parents
Bias in arrests, sentencing - don’t care, stop committing crimes. This isn’t rocket science
Bias in hiring - racist quota systems set up in many institutions now. But remaining bias may also exist because all of the above is true.

So how does removing advanced math/tracking fix any of that? The kids who have bad parents and/or learning disabilities will still get as good an education as the school system is capable of giving. Systemic discrimination of kids with greater learning capabilities seems like a stupid answer to problems created by perceived systemic racism.

That’s not happening.

But go ahead and pretend like systemic racism isn’t happening.

VMPI was all just a dream. thankfully. But the original point of the exchange was that bad parents create bad outcomes, regardless of race. That includes leaving a child to be raised by one parent.

VMPI was never removing advanced math.

Might be tough to be a “good” parent if generations of your ancestors were blocked from becoming “good” parents. People are fundamentally good; everyone wants to be “good” parents. There are just fewer obstacles to being “good” parents for some people.

You are naive if you think VMPI wasn’t removing accelerated paths. I assume you knew as much and are just playing word games.

Nope. Not tough to stay with the mother or father of your child and choose to raise that child because something that happened to your grandparents. Tough to take personal responsibility to do what’s right. I wonder if Va schools are teaching the importance of two parent households, maybe that should be part of the equity model if it isn’t already.

It was not removing accelerated paths. It always included calculus and IB as options which are accelerated paths.

You don’t know what’s in the VA FLA curriculum? You sound like an external agitator. A privileged, racist external agitator.

Yep you don’t know what was happening in elementary schools in FCPS.

I’m surprised it took you this long to call someone racist. Probably held it as long as you could. Do you feel better? Good. I’m not racist or privileged.

And This doesn’t change the fact that people are abandoning their children and equity measures in va schools will not fix this. Personal responsibility, regardless of race, is always an answer.

VMPI wasn’t removing advanced math/accelerated paths.

Interesting that you are self-aware enough to recognize that your comments are racist - and you are ok with that.

VMPI was removing accelerated math paths.

Nope just responding to the accusation above. My comments just point out that abandoning children produces bad outcomes for children, regardless of race. The fundamental difference is where we lay blame on this tragedy. I blame the people abandoning the children.

VMPI was not removing advanced math/acceleration. Stop lying.

If parents were never given the tools to be better parents because of systemic racism then don’t fault them fully. We, the US, has a hand in the poor outcomes. We should collectively take some responsibility.

VMPI was going to remove accelerated paths.

Systemic racism is not the cause of fathers/mothers abandoning their kids. This is easy stuff. Its happening across the board. Single parent households have increased 5x and 10x rates in nearly every demo over the last 60 years. The state cant and shouldnt force people to be together. But poor outcomes for some children will be the result. If you want to argue studies that reveal POC being pulled over at less rates in the evening due to the inability to profile the driver etc... maybe Ill listen, although ive heard it. But regarding systemic racism causing parents to abandon children to be raised by the remaining parent, well, we will just have to agree to disagree. Have a good day.

You are lying. VMPI was NOT removing advanced math/accelerated paths. They always included IB/AP which required school districts to accelerate.

Systemic racist is absolutely a big factor when it comes to family outcomes. You can choose ignorance but that doesn’t make it go away.

You really should research maximum pathing on this. Guess we can agree to disagree on that as well. Have a good day.

What is the research on what is best for the smartest kids? Is it putting them in a classroom with a mix of academic high- and low-performers, or putting them in a classroom with only high-performers?

Is that a serious question lol

Look mixed classrooms are better for those at the bottom and hurt those at the top, that's common sense. Since the mandate is to close gaps that's why mixed classrooms are popular.

Additionally tracking will never happen again because it roughly correlates to income which roughly correlates to race and having the black and brown children in one classroom and the whites and asians in another doesn't fly in blue areas like this one.

LOL. The white kids would be in class with the black and hispanic kids. The majority of white kids are not UMC and behind academically as well.

[Anonymous]

To those claiming some kids have an advantage due to “unequal distribution of limited resources”… perhaps in some cases, but me reading books to my kid from the free public library does not take away resources from anyone else. Me taking my kid to free museums or historic sites doesn’t stop others from doing so. Me being married to my kids’ dad doesn’t stop others from being married. These things are not “limited” resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s only one of many logical inconsistencies and contradictions in the DEI paradigm. Try squaring these two arguments.

(1) the goal of diversity is to push people out of their comfort zones and be around people of different backgrounds.

(2) people of color need to be around people who “look like them and have similar cultural backgrounds” to feel “safe.”

Uh…

Pro tip: the entire DEI concept is a fact-challenged cult that has more in common with QANON and MAGA than it does classic civil rights.

It will take a sufficient enough of special boundary breaking people to achieve goal 1 to eventually achieve goal 2 for the masses. But
Goal 2 is both the objective and logical conclusion of achieving goal 1.

50 years ago medicine was a very male dominated professions. Later more women broke through then more. Yesterday I took a tour of a brand new hospital building that’s opening this spring and the female communal changing room is double the size of the mens because of the staff demographic!

There is Diversity generally and diversity initiatives. In diversity generally spaces have diverse populations, viewpoints and people are both open minded and comfortable with differences. Additionally, these differences don’t impeded someone’s success. However, because of past racism and separation this doesn’t exist many places. So diversity initiatives seek to push people out of their comfort zone, understanding that 1)you can only push soo hard at a given point as to not have people rebel against the progress being made, and 2) that you can’t determine where to push or the root causes of some problems until people feel a sense of safety to talk about the problem.

For example: Imagine a lone black executive in a room full of white executives. If the black executive is asked to disclose their feelings, thoughts and experiences with racism in the company they have to consider a number of things:,a) will I be alienating myself from the group, 2)will what I say be easily dismissed because no one else in the room can identify with the issues, 3)will speaking up jeopardizing future promotion because of #1&2, 4)will people understand that my views don’t necessarily represent the views of every black personality in the company, 5)will this cause me more stress and expectations than already exist being the lone person.

To deal with the above, a safe space is created for black employees generally, where they will feel more comfortable sharing because there will be shared experiences. What comes from this is concerns that can then be bubbled to a larger diverse audience for consideration. Additionally, motivation and support for the individuals to speak up or act when in diverse spaces without fear of retaliation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Advanced kids are shamed for everything good they do to get ahead. "your parents are married" - privilege. "Your parents are not drinking and doing drugs"- privilege. "You are studying hard at school" - privilege. The culture of shaming academically advanced, motivated and good kids was at first only contained to a particular community. Now they are spreading the contagion.

The people so vocal about "privilege" have zero awareness how much "privilege" there is just by living in America. I'm not saying everything is perfect but a poor kid in America has much more "privilege" than some poor kid in your average African or Middle Eastern village. I never hear that mentioned for some reason.

Agree. As someone who has lived and worked in different countries around the world, this has always astounded me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Diversity is important but if your a white strait make you're basically fuqued.

Particularly if you're uneducated and can't spell "straight".

[Anonymous]

As an asian man I have slowly realized equity is just an anti-asian dog whistle

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here & I understand that graphic perfectly. What I take issue with is the idea that equality of (strictly) economic outcome, when you slice large groups by arbitrary criteria like culture, or race, is "natural" - or even desirable.

Even identical twins don't have equal outcomes. What basis is there for thinking that any larger, less comparable groups should?

or that they even want comparable outcomes? People have different goals and values. Let them sort it out for themselves instead of forcing this on everyone in a way that causes more harm than anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As an asian man I have slowly realized equity is just an anti-asian dog whistle

welcome to the party, pal.