Diversity and "Equity" are each other's enemies... discuss

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think a lot on DCUM (who have generational wealth and are into all the wordsmith theory going on nowadays) don't realize that the old system did work to raise people up from the bottom if you had a strong support system.

I grew up lower middle class. My parents (yes, I had an involved father) instilled in me a hard work ethic and stressed that only through education would I make more money than them. I didn't have tutors, but I was in honors, ignored all the others trying to get me to skip school in high school, got good grades and now am part of the upper 10%. My children have had an easier start than I did.

If there isn't familial support, the equity steps taken won't matter except on paper by bringing people like my children down.

You were privileged to grow up in a 2-parent household.

For some races, 69% of kids are born to unwed mothers:
https://www.childtrends.org/publications/dramatic-increase-in-percentage-of-births-outside-marriage-among-whites-hispanics-and-women-with-higher-education-levels

That’s the consequence of poor decision making.

The child has no say in that.

Yep it’s unfortunate. But punishing my kid for the sins of their parents doesn’t fix that problem. Bottom line is that schools can’t fix shitty parents.

Single parent \= “shitty parent”

Especially considering the parent who is the “single parent” is the one who stepped up to the plate.

Agreed, but one of the two parents probably is.

That’s not to say that divorced/unwed parents can’t successfully raise a child to not need equitable measures. It for sure happens.

This. One of the parent is the shitty parent. This is especially true in the poor black communities where many fathers are incarcerated. Those that are not, many abandon their responsibilities to their kid and could care less. I have a good friend in this situation but she is lucky because she has support from her family and they are helping to raise him. These kids have no strong father figures at all.

The single moms with no support are working to support the family so no one is at home watching the kids. They then get into trouble, hang out with the wrong crowd, etc….

The other issue is that some households with 2 parents, they just don’t give a sh’t about the kids and are just unfit to be parents. Ask a teacher in a title 1 school about that and they can easily tell you the percentages and you would be surprised.

Those kids are getting in trouble because police and school administrators are racist. It's not their fault. If you look at arrest and incarceration rates, black males are way overrepresented.

So they are being framed?

NP. There are multiple components to the systemic racism that leads to higher incarceration rates.

Redlining
Lack of generational wealth
Untreated learning disabilities
Harsher consequences at school
Lack of knowledge about education/college
Bias in hiring
Bias in arrests
Harsher sentencing

It’s pretty easy for a kid to make a few mistakes when they are young and then never be able to pull themselves out of that hole.

Where is the personal responsibility?

Generational wealth - shitty parents, a whole bunch of them but realistically, there are tons of normal everyday middle class Americans of all colors without generational wealth.
Untreated learning disabilities - shitty parents
Lack of knowledge about college - shitty parents
Bias in arrests, sentencing - don’t care, stop committing crimes. This isn’t rocket science
Bias in hiring - racist quota systems set up in many institutions now. But remaining bias may also exist because all of the above is true.

So how does removing advanced math/tracking fix any of that? The kids who have bad parents and/or learning disabilities will still get as good an education as the school system is capable of giving. Systemic discrimination of kids with greater learning capabilities seems like a stupid answer to problems created by perceived systemic racism.

That’s not happening.

But go ahead and pretend like systemic racism isn’t happening.

VMPI was all just a dream. thankfully. But the original point of the exchange was that bad parents create bad outcomes, regardless of race. That includes leaving a child to be raised by one parent.

VMPI was never removing advanced math.

Might be tough to be a “good” parent if generations of your ancestors were blocked from becoming “good” parents. People are fundamentally good; everyone wants to be “good” parents. There are just fewer obstacles to being “good” parents for some people.

You are naive if you think VMPI wasn’t removing accelerated paths. I assume you knew as much and are just playing word games.

Nope. Not tough to stay with the mother or father of your child and choose to raise that child because something that happened to your grandparents. Tough to take personal responsibility to do what’s right. I wonder if Va schools are teaching the importance of two parent households, maybe that should be part of the equity model if it isn’t already.

It was not removing accelerated paths. It always included calculus and IB as options which are accelerated paths.

You don’t know what’s in the VA FLA curriculum? You sound like an external agitator. A privileged, racist external agitator.

Yep you don’t know what was happening in elementary schools in FCPS.

I’m surprised it took you this long to call someone racist. Probably held it as long as you could. Do you feel better? Good. I’m not racist or privileged.

And This doesn’t change the fact that people are abandoning their children and equity measures in va schools will not fix this. Personal responsibility, regardless of race, is always an answer.

VMPI wasn’t removing advanced math/accelerated paths.

Interesting that you are self-aware enough to recognize that your comments are racist - and you are ok with that.

VMPI was removing accelerated math paths.

Nope just responding to the accusation above. My comments just point out that abandoning children produces bad outcomes for children, regardless of race. The fundamental difference is where we lay blame on this tragedy. I blame the people abandoning the children.

VMPI was not removing advanced math/acceleration. Stop lying.

If parents were never given the tools to be better parents because of systemic racism then don’t fault them fully. We, the US, has a hand in the poor outcomes. We should collectively take some responsibility.

VMPI was going to remove accelerated paths.

Systemic racism is not the cause of fathers/mothers abandoning their kids. This is easy stuff. Its happening across the board. Single parent households have increased 5x and 10x rates in nearly every demo over the last 60 years. The state cant and shouldnt force people to be together. But poor outcomes for some children will be the result. If you want to argue studies that reveal POC being pulled over at less rates in the evening due to the inability to profile the driver etc... maybe Ill listen, although ive heard it. But regarding systemic racism causing parents to abandon children to be raised by the remaining parent, well, we will just have to agree to disagree. Have a good day.

You are lying. VMPI was NOT removing advanced math/accelerated paths. They always included IB/AP which required school districts to accelerate.

Systemic racist is absolutely a big factor when it comes to family outcomes. You can choose ignorance but that doesn’t make it go away.

You really should research maximum pathing on this. Guess we can agree to disagree on that as well. Have a good day.

What is the research on what is best for the smartest kids? Is it putting them in a classroom with a mix of academic high- and low-performers, or putting them in a classroom with only high-performers?

Is that a serious question lol

Look mixed classrooms are better for those at the bottom and hurt those at the top, that's common sense. Since the mandate is to close gaps that's why mixed classrooms are popular.

Additionally tracking will never happen again because it roughly correlates to income which roughly correlates to race and having the black and brown children in one classroom and the whites and asians in another doesn't fly in blue areas like this one.

and of course the irony is that rich white liberals pushing all this flip out if their kids are in this situation and will continue to enrich/go private if non tracking occurs in their district.

A decade from now I will act shocked when new parents, including liberal parents, refuse to enroll their kids in the local public schools due to lackluster academic outcomes. Further, I'm sure school-choice proponents are secretly rooting for implementation of equity initiatives, believing that they will fail and knowing they need the educational system to suffer a self-inflicted wound (i.e., liberal parents fleeing public schools) to truly advance school choice initiatives.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Charters only exist because mostly urban school distrcits have failed. You do realize charters are majority black and brown right....

You do realize that I’m speculating about a future 10 years from now, right? One in which the equity initiatives don’t improve academic outcomes for any students, but do “reduce” the achievement gap in particular schools when measured racially by reducing academic outcomes in the aggregate, resulting in higher-SES students fleeing the system? It’s the kind of “achievement” that school-choice advocates would love—as the cost of the achievement is reduced support for public schools. You can disagree; I admit it’s a cynical take.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think a lot on DCUM (who have generational wealth and are into all the wordsmith theory going on nowadays) don't realize that the old system did work to raise people up from the bottom if you had a strong support system.

I grew up lower middle class. My parents (yes, I had an involved father) instilled in me a hard work ethic and stressed that only through education would I make more money than them. I didn't have tutors, but I was in honors, ignored all the others trying to get me to skip school in high school, got good grades and now am part of the upper 10%. My children have had an easier start than I did.

If there isn't familial support, the equity steps taken won't matter except on paper by bringing people like my children down.

You were privileged to grow up in a 2-parent household.

For some races, 69% of kids are born to unwed mothers:
https://www.childtrends.org/publications/dramatic-increase-in-percentage-of-births-outside-marriage-among-whites-hispanics-and-women-with-higher-education-levels

That’s the consequence of poor decision making.

The child has no say in that.

Yep it’s unfortunate. But punishing my kid for the sins of their parents doesn’t fix that problem. Bottom line is that schools can’t fix shitty parents.

Single parent \= “shitty parent”

Especially considering the parent who is the “single parent” is the one who stepped up to the plate.

Agreed, but one of the two parents probably is.

That’s not to say that divorced/unwed parents can’t successfully raise a child to not need equitable measures. It for sure happens.

This. One of the parent is the shitty parent. This is especially true in the poor black communities where many fathers are incarcerated. Those that are not, many abandon their responsibilities to their kid and could care less. I have a good friend in this situation but she is lucky because she has support from her family and they are helping to raise him. These kids have no strong father figures at all.

The single moms with no support are working to support the family so no one is at home watching the kids. They then get into trouble, hang out with the wrong crowd, etc….

The other issue is that some households with 2 parents, they just don’t give a sh’t about the kids and are just unfit to be parents. Ask a teacher in a title 1 school about that and they can easily tell you the percentages and you would be surprised.

Those kids are getting in trouble because police and school administrators are racist. It's not their fault. If you look at arrest and incarceration rates, black males are way overrepresented.

So they are being framed?

NP. There are multiple components to the systemic racism that leads to higher incarceration rates.

Redlining
Lack of generational wealth
Untreated learning disabilities
Harsher consequences at school
Lack of knowledge about education/college
Bias in hiring
Bias in arrests
Harsher sentencing

It’s pretty easy for a kid to make a few mistakes when they are young and then never be able to pull themselves out of that hole.

Where is the personal responsibility?

Generational wealth - shitty parents, a whole bunch of them but realistically, there are tons of normal everyday middle class Americans of all colors without generational wealth.
Untreated learning disabilities - shitty parents
Lack of knowledge about college - shitty parents
Bias in arrests, sentencing - don’t care, stop committing crimes. This isn’t rocket science
Bias in hiring - racist quota systems set up in many institutions now. But remaining bias may also exist because all of the above is true.

So how does removing advanced math/tracking fix any of that? The kids who have bad parents and/or learning disabilities will still get as good an education as the school system is capable of giving. Systemic discrimination of kids with greater learning capabilities seems like a stupid answer to problems created by perceived systemic racism.

That’s not happening.

But go ahead and pretend like systemic racism isn’t happening.

VMPI was all just a dream. thankfully. But the original point of the exchange was that bad parents create bad outcomes, regardless of race. That includes leaving a child to be raised by one parent.

VMPI was never removing advanced math.

Might be tough to be a “good” parent if generations of your ancestors were blocked from becoming “good” parents. People are fundamentally good; everyone wants to be “good” parents. There are just fewer obstacles to being “good” parents for some people.

You are naive if you think VMPI wasn’t removing accelerated paths. I assume you knew as much and are just playing word games.

Nope. Not tough to stay with the mother or father of your child and choose to raise that child because something that happened to your grandparents. Tough to take personal responsibility to do what’s right. I wonder if Va schools are teaching the importance of two parent households, maybe that should be part of the equity model if it isn’t already.

It was not removing accelerated paths. It always included calculus and IB as options which are accelerated paths.

You don’t know what’s in the VA FLA curriculum? You sound like an external agitator. A privileged, racist external agitator.

Yep you don’t know what was happening in elementary schools in FCPS.

I’m surprised it took you this long to call someone racist. Probably held it as long as you could. Do you feel better? Good. I’m not racist or privileged.

And This doesn’t change the fact that people are abandoning their children and equity measures in va schools will not fix this. Personal responsibility, regardless of race, is always an answer.

VMPI wasn’t removing advanced math/accelerated paths.

Interesting that you are self-aware enough to recognize that your comments are racist - and you are ok with that.

VMPI was removing accelerated math paths.

Nope just responding to the accusation above. My comments just point out that abandoning children produces bad outcomes for children, regardless of race. The fundamental difference is where we lay blame on this tragedy. I blame the people abandoning the children.

VMPI was not removing advanced math/acceleration. Stop lying.

If parents were never given the tools to be better parents because of systemic racism then don’t fault them fully. We, the US, has a hand in the poor outcomes. We should collectively take some responsibility.

VMPI was going to remove accelerated paths.

Systemic racism is not the cause of fathers/mothers abandoning their kids. This is easy stuff. Its happening across the board. Single parent households have increased 5x and 10x rates in nearly every demo over the last 60 years. The state cant and shouldnt force people to be together. But poor outcomes for some children will be the result. If you want to argue studies that reveal POC being pulled over at less rates in the evening due to the inability to profile the driver etc... maybe Ill listen, although ive heard it. But regarding systemic racism causing parents to abandon children to be raised by the remaining parent, well, we will just have to agree to disagree. Have a good day.

You are lying. VMPI was NOT removing advanced math/accelerated paths. They always included IB/AP which required school districts to accelerate.

Systemic racist is absolutely a big factor when it comes to family outcomes. You can choose ignorance but that doesn’t make it go away.

You really should research maximum pathing on this. Guess we can agree to disagree on that as well. Have a good day.

What is the research on what is best for the smartest kids? Is it putting them in a classroom with a mix of academic high- and low-performers, or putting them in a classroom with only high-performers?

Is that a serious question lol

Look mixed classrooms are better for those at the bottom and hurt those at the top, that's common sense. Since the mandate is to close gaps that's why mixed classrooms are popular.

Additionally tracking will never happen again because it roughly correlates to income which roughly correlates to race and having the black and brown children in one classroom and the whites and asians in another doesn't fly in blue areas like this one.

and of course the irony is that rich white liberals pushing all this flip out if their kids are in this situation and will continue to enrich/go private if non tracking occurs in their district.

A decade from now I will act shocked when new parents, including liberal parents, refuse to enroll their kids in the local public schools due to lackluster academic outcomes. Further, I'm sure school-choice proponents are secretly rooting for implementation of equity initiatives, believing that they will fail and knowing they need the educational system to suffer a self-inflicted wound (i.e., liberal parents fleeing public schools) to truly advance school choice initiatives.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Charters only exist because mostly urban school distrcits have failed. You do realize charters are majority black and brown right....

You do realize that I’m speculating about a future 10 years from now, right? One in which the equity initiatives don’t improve academic outcomes for any students, but do “reduce” the achievement gap in particular schools when measured racially by reducing academic outcomes in the aggregate, resulting in higher-SES students fleeing the system? It’s the kind of “achievement” that school-choice advocates would love—as the cost of the achievement is reduced support for public schools. You can disagree; I admit it’s a cynical take.

In my estimation, it’s already started. I’m shopping around cheaper privates and Catholics. I’m not rich, but will sacrifice other things to ensure my kids get a good foundational education that includes spelling, novels, and math that doesn’t cater to the lowest common denominator.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot on DCUM (who have generational wealth and are into all the wordsmith theory going on nowadays) don't realize that the old system did work to raise people up from the bottom if you had a strong support system.

I grew up lower middle class. My parents (yes, I had an involved father) instilled in me a hard work ethic and stressed that only through education would I make more money than them. I didn't have tutors, but I was in honors, ignored all the others trying to get me to skip school in high school, got good grades and now am part of the upper 10%. My children have had an easier start than I did.

If there isn't familial support, the equity steps taken won't matter except on paper by bringing people like my children down.

You were privileged to grow up in a 2-parent household.

For some races, 69% of kids are born to unwed mothers:
https://www.childtrends.org/publications/dramatic-increase-in-percentage-of-births-outside-marriage-among-whites-hispanics-and-women-with-higher-education-levels

That’s the consequence of poor decision making.

The child has no say in that.

Yep it’s unfortunate. But punishing my kid for the sins of their parents doesn’t fix that problem. Bottom line is that schools can’t fix shitty parents.

Single parent \= “shitty parent”

Especially considering the parent who is the “single parent” is the one who stepped up to the plate.

Agreed, but one of the two parents probably is.

That’s not to say that divorced/unwed parents can’t successfully raise a child to not need equitable measures. It for sure happens.

This. One of the parent is the shitty parent. This is especially true in the poor black communities where many fathers are incarcerated. Those that are not, many abandon their responsibilities to their kid and could care less. I have a good friend in this situation but she is lucky because she has support from her family and they are helping to raise him. These kids have no strong father figures at all.

The single moms with no support are working to support the family so no one is at home watching the kids. They then get into trouble, hang out with the wrong crowd, etc….

The other issue is that some households with 2 parents, they just don’t give a sh’t about the kids and are just unfit to be parents. Ask a teacher in a title 1 school about that and they can easily tell you the percentages and you would be surprised.

Those kids are getting in trouble because police and school administrators are racist. It's not their fault. If you look at arrest and incarceration rates, black males are way overrepresented.

So they are being framed?

NP. There are multiple components to the systemic racism that leads to higher incarceration rates.

Redlining
Lack of generational wealth
Untreated learning disabilities
Harsher consequences at school
Lack of knowledge about education/college
Bias in hiring
Bias in arrests
Harsher sentencing

It’s pretty easy for a kid to make a few mistakes when they are young and then never be able to pull themselves out of that hole.

Where is the personal responsibility?

Generational wealth - shitty parents, a whole bunch of them but realistically, there are tons of normal everyday middle class Americans of all colors without generational wealth.
Untreated learning disabilities - shitty parents
Lack of knowledge about college - shitty parents
Bias in arrests, sentencing - don’t care, stop committing crimes. This isn’t rocket science
Bias in hiring - racist quota systems set up in many institutions now. But remaining bias may also exist because all of the above is true.

So how does removing advanced math/tracking fix any of that? The kids who have bad parents and/or learning disabilities will still get as good an education as the school system is capable of giving. Systemic discrimination of kids with greater learning capabilities seems like a stupid answer to problems created by perceived systemic racism.

That’s not happening.

But go ahead and pretend like systemic racism isn’t happening.

VMPI was all just a dream. thankfully. But the original point of the exchange was that bad parents create bad outcomes, regardless of race. That includes leaving a child to be raised by one parent.

VMPI was never removing advanced math.

Might be tough to be a “good” parent if generations of your ancestors were blocked from becoming “good” parents. People are fundamentally good; everyone wants to be “good” parents. There are just fewer obstacles to being “good” parents for some people.

You are naive if you think VMPI wasn’t removing accelerated paths. I assume you knew as much and are just playing word games.

Nope. Not tough to stay with the mother or father of your child and choose to raise that child because something that happened to your grandparents. Tough to take personal responsibility to do what’s right. I wonder if Va schools are teaching the importance of two parent households, maybe that should be part of the equity model if it isn’t already.

It was not removing accelerated paths. It always included calculus and IB as options which are accelerated paths.

You don’t know what’s in the VA FLA curriculum? You sound like an external agitator. A privileged, racist external agitator.

Yep you don’t know what was happening in elementary schools in FCPS.

I’m surprised it took you this long to call someone racist. Probably held it as long as you could. Do you feel better? Good. I’m not racist or privileged.

And This doesn’t change the fact that people are abandoning their children and equity measures in va schools will not fix this. Personal responsibility, regardless of race, is always an answer.

VMPI wasn’t removing advanced math/accelerated paths.

Interesting that you are self-aware enough to recognize that your comments are racist - and you are ok with that.

VMPI was removing accelerated math paths.

Nope just responding to the accusation above. My comments just point out that abandoning children produces bad outcomes for children, regardless of race. The fundamental difference is where we lay blame on this tragedy. I blame the people abandoning the children.

VMPI was not removing advanced math/acceleration. Stop lying.

If parents were never given the tools to be better parents because of systemic racism then don’t fault them fully. We, the US, has a hand in the poor outcomes. We should collectively take some responsibility.

VMPI was going to remove accelerated paths.

Systemic racism is not the cause of fathers/mothers abandoning their kids. This is easy stuff. Its happening across the board. Single parent households have increased 5x and 10x rates in nearly every demo over the last 60 years. The state cant and shouldnt force people to be together. But poor outcomes for some children will be the result. If you want to argue studies that reveal POC being pulled over at less rates in the evening due to the inability to profile the driver etc... maybe Ill listen, although ive heard it. But regarding systemic racism causing parents to abandon children to be raised by the remaining parent, well, we will just have to agree to disagree. Have a good day.

You are lying. VMPI was NOT removing advanced math/accelerated paths. They always included IB/AP which required school districts to accelerate.

Systemic racist is absolutely a big factor when it comes to family outcomes. You can choose ignorance but that doesn’t make it go away.

You really should research maximum pathing on this. Guess we can agree to disagree on that as well. Have a good day.

What is the research on what is best for the smartest kids? Is it putting them in a classroom with a mix of academic high- and low-performers, or putting them in a classroom with only high-performers?

Is that a serious question lol

Look mixed classrooms are better for those at the bottom and hurt those at the top, that's common sense. Since the mandate is to close gaps that's why mixed classrooms are popular.

Additionally tracking will never happen again because it roughly correlates to income which roughly correlates to race and having the black and brown children in one classroom and the whites and asians in another doesn't fly in blue areas like this one.

and of course the irony is that rich white liberals pushing all this flip out if their kids are in this situation and will continue to enrich/go private if non tracking occurs in their district.

A decade from now I will act shocked when new parents, including liberal parents, refuse to enroll their kids in the local public schools due to lackluster academic outcomes. Further, I'm sure school-choice proponents are secretly rooting for implementation of equity initiatives, believing that they will fail and knowing they need the educational system to suffer a self-inflicted wound (i.e., liberal parents fleeing public schools) to truly advance school choice initiatives.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Charters only exist because mostly urban school distrcits have failed. You do realize charters are majority black and brown right....

You do realize that I’m speculating about a future 10 years from now, right? One in which the equity initiatives don’t improve academic outcomes for any students, but do “reduce” the achievement gap in particular schools when measured racially by reducing academic outcomes in the aggregate, resulting in higher-SES students fleeing the system? It’s the kind of “achievement” that school-choice advocates would love—as the cost of the achievement is reduced support for public schools. You can disagree; I admit it’s a cynical take.

In my estimation, it’s already started. I’m shopping around cheaper privates and Catholics. I’m not rich, but will sacrifice other things to ensure my kids get a good foundational education that includes spelling, novels, and math that doesn’t cater to the lowest common denominator.

Hurrah. Now you’re starting to get it. Privates are a good option for some. Besides, we don’t really want people in our public schools who think the way you do.

[Anonymous]

They should stop making teachers fraud their own paperwork. We were told to only declare 40 hour weeks so they can stiff us in overtime. It's more like 60+ hour weeks we are just forbidden to acknowledge it. Just another pressured fraud in modern education that causes teachers to leave the profession due to systematic abuses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot on DCUM (who have generational wealth and are into all the wordsmith theory going on nowadays) don't realize that the old system did work to raise people up from the bottom if you had a strong support system.

I grew up lower middle class. My parents (yes, I had an involved father) instilled in me a hard work ethic and stressed that only through education would I make more money than them. I didn't have tutors, but I was in honors, ignored all the others trying to get me to skip school in high school, got good grades and now am part of the upper 10%. My children have had an easier start than I did.

If there isn't familial support, the equity steps taken won't matter except on paper by bringing people like my children down.

You were privileged to grow up in a 2-parent household.

For some races, 69% of kids are born to unwed mothers:
https://www.childtrends.org/publications/dramatic-increase-in-percentage-of-births-outside-marriage-among-whites-hispanics-and-women-with-higher-education-levels

That’s the consequence of poor decision making.

The child has no say in that.

Yep it’s unfortunate. But punishing my kid for the sins of their parents doesn’t fix that problem. Bottom line is that schools can’t fix shitty parents.

Single parent \= “shitty parent”

Especially considering the parent who is the “single parent” is the one who stepped up to the plate.

Agreed, but one of the two parents probably is.

That’s not to say that divorced/unwed parents can’t successfully raise a child to not need equitable measures. It for sure happens.

This. One of the parent is the shitty parent. This is especially true in the poor black communities where many fathers are incarcerated. Those that are not, many abandon their responsibilities to their kid and could care less. I have a good friend in this situation but she is lucky because she has support from her family and they are helping to raise him. These kids have no strong father figures at all.

The single moms with no support are working to support the family so no one is at home watching the kids. They then get into trouble, hang out with the wrong crowd, etc….

The other issue is that some households with 2 parents, they just don’t give a sh’t about the kids and are just unfit to be parents. Ask a teacher in a title 1 school about that and they can easily tell you the percentages and you would be surprised.

Those kids are getting in trouble because police and school administrators are racist. It's not their fault. If you look at arrest and incarceration rates, black males are way overrepresented.

So they are being framed?

NP. There are multiple components to the systemic racism that leads to higher incarceration rates.

Redlining
Lack of generational wealth
Untreated learning disabilities
Harsher consequences at school
Lack of knowledge about education/college
Bias in hiring
Bias in arrests
Harsher sentencing

It’s pretty easy for a kid to make a few mistakes when they are young and then never be able to pull themselves out of that hole.

Where is the personal responsibility?

Generational wealth - shitty parents, a whole bunch of them but realistically, there are tons of normal everyday middle class Americans of all colors without generational wealth.
Untreated learning disabilities - shitty parents
Lack of knowledge about college - shitty parents
Bias in arrests, sentencing - don’t care, stop committing crimes. This isn’t rocket science
Bias in hiring - racist quota systems set up in many institutions now. But remaining bias may also exist because all of the above is true.

So how does removing advanced math/tracking fix any of that? The kids who have bad parents and/or learning disabilities will still get as good an education as the school system is capable of giving. Systemic discrimination of kids with greater learning capabilities seems like a stupid answer to problems created by perceived systemic racism.

That’s not happening.

But go ahead and pretend like systemic racism isn’t happening.

VMPI was all just a dream. thankfully. But the original point of the exchange was that bad parents create bad outcomes, regardless of race. That includes leaving a child to be raised by one parent.

VMPI was never removing advanced math.

Might be tough to be a “good” parent if generations of your ancestors were blocked from becoming “good” parents. People are fundamentally good; everyone wants to be “good” parents. There are just fewer obstacles to being “good” parents for some people.

You are naive if you think VMPI wasn’t removing accelerated paths. I assume you knew as much and are just playing word games.

Nope. Not tough to stay with the mother or father of your child and choose to raise that child because something that happened to your grandparents. Tough to take personal responsibility to do what’s right. I wonder if Va schools are teaching the importance of two parent households, maybe that should be part of the equity model if it isn’t already.

It was not removing accelerated paths. It always included calculus and IB as options which are accelerated paths.

You don’t know what’s in the VA FLA curriculum? You sound like an external agitator. A privileged, racist external agitator.

Yep you don’t know what was happening in elementary schools in FCPS.

I’m surprised it took you this long to call someone racist. Probably held it as long as you could. Do you feel better? Good. I’m not racist or privileged.

And This doesn’t change the fact that people are abandoning their children and equity measures in va schools will not fix this. Personal responsibility, regardless of race, is always an answer.

VMPI wasn’t removing advanced math/accelerated paths.

Interesting that you are self-aware enough to recognize that your comments are racist - and you are ok with that.

VMPI was removing accelerated math paths.

Nope just responding to the accusation above. My comments just point out that abandoning children produces bad outcomes for children, regardless of race. The fundamental difference is where we lay blame on this tragedy. I blame the people abandoning the children.

VMPI was not removing advanced math/acceleration. Stop lying.

If parents were never given the tools to be better parents because of systemic racism then don’t fault them fully. We, the US, has a hand in the poor outcomes. We should collectively take some responsibility.

VMPI was going to remove accelerated paths.

Systemic racism is not the cause of fathers/mothers abandoning their kids. This is easy stuff. Its happening across the board. Single parent households have increased 5x and 10x rates in nearly every demo over the last 60 years. The state cant and shouldnt force people to be together. But poor outcomes for some children will be the result. If you want to argue studies that reveal POC being pulled over at less rates in the evening due to the inability to profile the driver etc... maybe Ill listen, although ive heard it. But regarding systemic racism causing parents to abandon children to be raised by the remaining parent, well, we will just have to agree to disagree. Have a good day.

You are lying. VMPI was NOT removing advanced math/accelerated paths. They always included IB/AP which required school districts to accelerate.

Systemic racist is absolutely a big factor when it comes to family outcomes. You can choose ignorance but that doesn’t make it go away.

You really should research maximum pathing on this. Guess we can agree to disagree on that as well. Have a good day.

What is the research on what is best for the smartest kids? Is it putting them in a classroom with a mix of academic high- and low-performers, or putting them in a classroom with only high-performers?

Is that a serious question lol

Look mixed classrooms are better for those at the bottom and hurt those at the top, that's common sense. Since the mandate is to close gaps that's why mixed classrooms are popular.

Additionally tracking will never happen again because it roughly correlates to income which roughly correlates to race and having the black and brown children in one classroom and the whites and asians in another doesn't fly in blue areas like this one.

and of course the irony is that rich white liberals pushing all this flip out if their kids are in this situation and will continue to enrich/go private if non tracking occurs in their district.

A decade from now I will act shocked when new parents, including liberal parents, refuse to enroll their kids in the local public schools due to lackluster academic outcomes. Further, I'm sure school-choice proponents are secretly rooting for implementation of equity initiatives, believing that they will fail and knowing they need the educational system to suffer a self-inflicted wound (i.e., liberal parents fleeing public schools) to truly advance school choice initiatives.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Charters only exist because mostly urban school distrcits have failed. You do realize charters are majority black and brown right....

You do realize that I’m speculating about a future 10 years from now, right? One in which the equity initiatives don’t improve academic outcomes for any students, but do “reduce” the achievement gap in particular schools when measured racially by reducing academic outcomes in the aggregate, resulting in higher-SES students fleeing the system? It’s the kind of “achievement” that school-choice advocates would love—as the cost of the achievement is reduced support for public schools. You can disagree; I admit it’s a cynical take.

In my estimation, it’s already started. I’m shopping around cheaper privates and Catholics. I’m not rich, but will sacrifice other things to ensure my kids get a good foundational education that includes spelling, novels, and math that doesn’t cater to the lowest common denominator.

Hurrah. Now you’re starting to get it. Privates are a good option for some. Besides, we don’t really want people in our public schools who think the way you do.

But you do. You do want people who promote their high performing children. You just want them to sit by and help cater to those who do not perform at a high level.

But they might leave. Then out of the remaining students, inevitably, there will still be kids who perform at higher levels than their peers and either cant leave or will want their bored children's needs to be addressed. So what then, split them up to address the kids needs (cant do that) or slow it down more? Kids are born with all kinds of abilities and families exist with all kinds of circumstances. Kids will never be this monolith of learning and achieving the same thing no matter how much money is spent. We should celibrate and/or address our differences and individual journeys.

Keep trying to overcome those impossibilities and telling others you don't want them there because they want what they think is best for their kids. Thats a great approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot on DCUM (who have generational wealth and are into all the wordsmith theory going on nowadays) don't realize that the old system did work to raise people up from the bottom if you had a strong support system.

I grew up lower middle class. My parents (yes, I had an involved father) instilled in me a hard work ethic and stressed that only through education would I make more money than them. I didn't have tutors, but I was in honors, ignored all the others trying to get me to skip school in high school, got good grades and now am part of the upper 10%. My children have had an easier start than I did.

If there isn't familial support, the equity steps taken won't matter except on paper by bringing people like my children down.

You were privileged to grow up in a 2-parent household.

For some races, 69% of kids are born to unwed mothers:
https://www.childtrends.org/publications/dramatic-increase-in-percentage-of-births-outside-marriage-among-whites-hispanics-and-women-with-higher-education-levels

That’s the consequence of poor decision making.

The child has no say in that.

Yep it’s unfortunate. But punishing my kid for the sins of their parents doesn’t fix that problem. Bottom line is that schools can’t fix shitty parents.

Single parent \= “shitty parent”

Especially considering the parent who is the “single parent” is the one who stepped up to the plate.

Agreed, but one of the two parents probably is.

That’s not to say that divorced/unwed parents can’t successfully raise a child to not need equitable measures. It for sure happens.

This. One of the parent is the shitty parent. This is especially true in the poor black communities where many fathers are incarcerated. Those that are not, many abandon their responsibilities to their kid and could care less. I have a good friend in this situation but she is lucky because she has support from her family and they are helping to raise him. These kids have no strong father figures at all.

The single moms with no support are working to support the family so no one is at home watching the kids. They then get into trouble, hang out with the wrong crowd, etc….

The other issue is that some households with 2 parents, they just don’t give a sh’t about the kids and are just unfit to be parents. Ask a teacher in a title 1 school about that and they can easily tell you the percentages and you would be surprised.

Those kids are getting in trouble because police and school administrators are racist. It's not their fault. If you look at arrest and incarceration rates, black males are way overrepresented.

So they are being framed?

NP. There are multiple components to the systemic racism that leads to higher incarceration rates.

Redlining
Lack of generational wealth
Untreated learning disabilities
Harsher consequences at school
Lack of knowledge about education/college
Bias in hiring
Bias in arrests
Harsher sentencing

It’s pretty easy for a kid to make a few mistakes when they are young and then never be able to pull themselves out of that hole.

Where is the personal responsibility?

Generational wealth - shitty parents, a whole bunch of them but realistically, there are tons of normal everyday middle class Americans of all colors without generational wealth.
Untreated learning disabilities - shitty parents
Lack of knowledge about college - shitty parents
Bias in arrests, sentencing - don’t care, stop committing crimes. This isn’t rocket science
Bias in hiring - racist quota systems set up in many institutions now. But remaining bias may also exist because all of the above is true.

So how does removing advanced math/tracking fix any of that? The kids who have bad parents and/or learning disabilities will still get as good an education as the school system is capable of giving. Systemic discrimination of kids with greater learning capabilities seems like a stupid answer to problems created by perceived systemic racism.

That’s not happening.

But go ahead and pretend like systemic racism isn’t happening.

VMPI was all just a dream. thankfully. But the original point of the exchange was that bad parents create bad outcomes, regardless of race. That includes leaving a child to be raised by one parent.

VMPI was never removing advanced math.

Might be tough to be a “good” parent if generations of your ancestors were blocked from becoming “good” parents. People are fundamentally good; everyone wants to be “good” parents. There are just fewer obstacles to being “good” parents for some people.

You are naive if you think VMPI wasn’t removing accelerated paths. I assume you knew as much and are just playing word games.

Nope. Not tough to stay with the mother or father of your child and choose to raise that child because something that happened to your grandparents. Tough to take personal responsibility to do what’s right. I wonder if Va schools are teaching the importance of two parent households, maybe that should be part of the equity model if it isn’t already.

It was not removing accelerated paths. It always included calculus and IB as options which are accelerated paths.

You don’t know what’s in the VA FLA curriculum? You sound like an external agitator. A privileged, racist external agitator.

Yep you don’t know what was happening in elementary schools in FCPS.

I’m surprised it took you this long to call someone racist. Probably held it as long as you could. Do you feel better? Good. I’m not racist or privileged.

And This doesn’t change the fact that people are abandoning their children and equity measures in va schools will not fix this. Personal responsibility, regardless of race, is always an answer.

VMPI wasn’t removing advanced math/accelerated paths.

Interesting that you are self-aware enough to recognize that your comments are racist - and you are ok with that.

VMPI was removing accelerated math paths.

Nope just responding to the accusation above. My comments just point out that abandoning children produces bad outcomes for children, regardless of race. The fundamental difference is where we lay blame on this tragedy. I blame the people abandoning the children.

VMPI was not removing advanced math/acceleration. Stop lying.

If parents were never given the tools to be better parents because of systemic racism then don’t fault them fully. We, the US, has a hand in the poor outcomes. We should collectively take some responsibility.

VMPI was going to remove accelerated paths.

Systemic racism is not the cause of fathers/mothers abandoning their kids. This is easy stuff. Its happening across the board. Single parent households have increased 5x and 10x rates in nearly every demo over the last 60 years. The state cant and shouldnt force people to be together. But poor outcomes for some children will be the result. If you want to argue studies that reveal POC being pulled over at less rates in the evening due to the inability to profile the driver etc... maybe Ill listen, although ive heard it. But regarding systemic racism causing parents to abandon children to be raised by the remaining parent, well, we will just have to agree to disagree. Have a good day.

You are lying. VMPI was NOT removing advanced math/accelerated paths. They always included IB/AP which required school districts to accelerate.

Systemic racist is absolutely a big factor when it comes to family outcomes. You can choose ignorance but that doesn’t make it go away.

You really should research maximum pathing on this. Guess we can agree to disagree on that as well. Have a good day.

What is the research on what is best for the smartest kids? Is it putting them in a classroom with a mix of academic high- and low-performers, or putting them in a classroom with only high-performers?

Is that a serious question lol

Look mixed classrooms are better for those at the bottom and hurt those at the top, that's common sense. Since the mandate is to close gaps that's why mixed classrooms are popular.

Additionally tracking will never happen again because it roughly correlates to income which roughly correlates to race and having the black and brown children in one classroom and the whites and asians in another doesn't fly in blue areas like this one.

and of course the irony is that rich white liberals pushing all this flip out if their kids are in this situation and will continue to enrich/go private if non tracking occurs in their district.

A decade from now I will act shocked when new parents, including liberal parents, refuse to enroll their kids in the local public schools due to lackluster academic outcomes. Further, I'm sure school-choice proponents are secretly rooting for implementation of equity initiatives, believing that they will fail and knowing they need the educational system to suffer a self-inflicted wound (i.e., liberal parents fleeing public schools) to truly advance school choice initiatives.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Charters only exist because mostly urban school distrcits have failed. You do realize charters are majority black and brown right....

You do realize that I’m speculating about a future 10 years from now, right? One in which the equity initiatives don’t improve academic outcomes for any students, but do “reduce” the achievement gap in particular schools when measured racially by reducing academic outcomes in the aggregate, resulting in higher-SES students fleeing the system? It’s the kind of “achievement” that school-choice advocates would love—as the cost of the achievement is reduced support for public schools. You can disagree; I admit it’s a cynical take.

In my estimation, it’s already started. I’m shopping around cheaper privates and Catholics. I’m not rich, but will sacrifice other things to ensure my kids get a good foundational education that includes spelling, novels, and math that doesn’t cater to the lowest common denominator.

Hurrah. Now you’re starting to get it. Privates are a good option for some. Besides, we don’t really want people in our public schools who think the way you do.

But you do. You do want people who promote their high performing children. You just want them to sit by and help cater to those who do not perform at a high level.

But they might leave. Then out of the remaining students, inevitably, there will still be kids who perform at higher levels than their peers and either cant leave or will want their bored children's needs to be addressed. So what then, split them up to address the kids needs (cant do that) or slow it down more? Kids are born with all kinds of abilities and families exist with all kinds of circumstances. Kids will never be this monolith of learning and achieving the same thing no matter how much money is spent. We should celibrate and/or address our differences and individual journeys.

Keep trying to overcome those impossibilities and telling others you don't want them there because they want what they think is best for their kids. Thats a great approach.

My children are plenty high-performing. I don’t have this crippling anxiety you have that they are being shortchanged by efforts to lift up others. That’s the mentality we want gone. Your high-achieving children are a dime a dozen. It’s not like they will leave in droves. It’s only the ones with mentally defective parents who think the way we do we want gone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot on DCUM (who have generational wealth and are into all the wordsmith theory going on nowadays) don't realize that the old system did work to raise people up from the bottom if you had a strong support system.

I grew up lower middle class. My parents (yes, I had an involved father) instilled in me a hard work ethic and stressed that only through education would I make more money than them. I didn't have tutors, but I was in honors, ignored all the others trying to get me to skip school in high school, got good grades and now am part of the upper 10%. My children have had an easier start than I did.

If there isn't familial support, the equity steps taken won't matter except on paper by bringing people like my children down.

You were privileged to grow up in a 2-parent household.

For some races, 69% of kids are born to unwed mothers:
https://www.childtrends.org/publications/dramatic-increase-in-percentage-of-births-outside-marriage-among-whites-hispanics-and-women-with-higher-education-levels

That’s the consequence of poor decision making.

The child has no say in that.

Yep it’s unfortunate. But punishing my kid for the sins of their parents doesn’t fix that problem. Bottom line is that schools can’t fix shitty parents.

Single parent \= “shitty parent”

Especially considering the parent who is the “single parent” is the one who stepped up to the plate.

Agreed, but one of the two parents probably is.

That’s not to say that divorced/unwed parents can’t successfully raise a child to not need equitable measures. It for sure happens.

This. One of the parent is the shitty parent. This is especially true in the poor black communities where many fathers are incarcerated. Those that are not, many abandon their responsibilities to their kid and could care less. I have a good friend in this situation but she is lucky because she has support from her family and they are helping to raise him. These kids have no strong father figures at all.

The single moms with no support are working to support the family so no one is at home watching the kids. They then get into trouble, hang out with the wrong crowd, etc….

The other issue is that some households with 2 parents, they just don’t give a sh’t about the kids and are just unfit to be parents. Ask a teacher in a title 1 school about that and they can easily tell you the percentages and you would be surprised.

Those kids are getting in trouble because police and school administrators are racist. It's not their fault. If you look at arrest and incarceration rates, black males are way overrepresented.

So they are being framed?

NP. There are multiple components to the systemic racism that leads to higher incarceration rates.

Redlining
Lack of generational wealth
Untreated learning disabilities
Harsher consequences at school
Lack of knowledge about education/college
Bias in hiring
Bias in arrests
Harsher sentencing

It’s pretty easy for a kid to make a few mistakes when they are young and then never be able to pull themselves out of that hole.

Where is the personal responsibility?

Generational wealth - shitty parents, a whole bunch of them but realistically, there are tons of normal everyday middle class Americans of all colors without generational wealth.
Untreated learning disabilities - shitty parents
Lack of knowledge about college - shitty parents
Bias in arrests, sentencing - don’t care, stop committing crimes. This isn’t rocket science
Bias in hiring - racist quota systems set up in many institutions now. But remaining bias may also exist because all of the above is true.

So how does removing advanced math/tracking fix any of that? The kids who have bad parents and/or learning disabilities will still get as good an education as the school system is capable of giving. Systemic discrimination of kids with greater learning capabilities seems like a stupid answer to problems created by perceived systemic racism.

That’s not happening.

But go ahead and pretend like systemic racism isn’t happening.

VMPI was all just a dream. thankfully. But the original point of the exchange was that bad parents create bad outcomes, regardless of race. That includes leaving a child to be raised by one parent.

VMPI was never removing advanced math.

Might be tough to be a “good” parent if generations of your ancestors were blocked from becoming “good” parents. People are fundamentally good; everyone wants to be “good” parents. There are just fewer obstacles to being “good” parents for some people.

You are naive if you think VMPI wasn’t removing accelerated paths. I assume you knew as much and are just playing word games.

Nope. Not tough to stay with the mother or father of your child and choose to raise that child because something that happened to your grandparents. Tough to take personal responsibility to do what’s right. I wonder if Va schools are teaching the importance of two parent households, maybe that should be part of the equity model if it isn’t already.

It was not removing accelerated paths. It always included calculus and IB as options which are accelerated paths.

You don’t know what’s in the VA FLA curriculum? You sound like an external agitator. A privileged, racist external agitator.

Yep you don’t know what was happening in elementary schools in FCPS.

I’m surprised it took you this long to call someone racist. Probably held it as long as you could. Do you feel better? Good. I’m not racist or privileged.

And This doesn’t change the fact that people are abandoning their children and equity measures in va schools will not fix this. Personal responsibility, regardless of race, is always an answer.

VMPI wasn’t removing advanced math/accelerated paths.

Interesting that you are self-aware enough to recognize that your comments are racist - and you are ok with that.

VMPI was removing accelerated math paths.

Nope just responding to the accusation above. My comments just point out that abandoning children produces bad outcomes for children, regardless of race. The fundamental difference is where we lay blame on this tragedy. I blame the people abandoning the children.

VMPI was not removing advanced math/acceleration. Stop lying.

If parents were never given the tools to be better parents because of systemic racism then don’t fault them fully. We, the US, has a hand in the poor outcomes. We should collectively take some responsibility.

VMPI was going to remove accelerated paths.

Systemic racism is not the cause of fathers/mothers abandoning their kids. This is easy stuff. Its happening across the board. Single parent households have increased 5x and 10x rates in nearly every demo over the last 60 years. The state cant and shouldnt force people to be together. But poor outcomes for some children will be the result. If you want to argue studies that reveal POC being pulled over at less rates in the evening due to the inability to profile the driver etc... maybe Ill listen, although ive heard it. But regarding systemic racism causing parents to abandon children to be raised by the remaining parent, well, we will just have to agree to disagree. Have a good day.

You are lying. VMPI was NOT removing advanced math/accelerated paths. They always included IB/AP which required school districts to accelerate.

Systemic racist is absolutely a big factor when it comes to family outcomes. You can choose ignorance but that doesn’t make it go away.

You really should research maximum pathing on this. Guess we can agree to disagree on that as well. Have a good day.

What is the research on what is best for the smartest kids? Is it putting them in a classroom with a mix of academic high- and low-performers, or putting them in a classroom with only high-performers?

Is that a serious question lol

Look mixed classrooms are better for those at the bottom and hurt those at the top, that's common sense. Since the mandate is to close gaps that's why mixed classrooms are popular.

Additionally tracking will never happen again because it roughly correlates to income which roughly correlates to race and having the black and brown children in one classroom and the whites and asians in another doesn't fly in blue areas like this one.

and of course the irony is that rich white liberals pushing all this flip out if their kids are in this situation and will continue to enrich/go private if non tracking occurs in their district.

A decade from now I will act shocked when new parents, including liberal parents, refuse to enroll their kids in the local public schools due to lackluster academic outcomes. Further, I'm sure school-choice proponents are secretly rooting for implementation of equity initiatives, believing that they will fail and knowing they need the educational system to suffer a self-inflicted wound (i.e., liberal parents fleeing public schools) to truly advance school choice initiatives.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Charters only exist because mostly urban school distrcits have failed. You do realize charters are majority black and brown right....

You do realize that I’m speculating about a future 10 years from now, right? One in which the equity initiatives don’t improve academic outcomes for any students, but do “reduce” the achievement gap in particular schools when measured racially by reducing academic outcomes in the aggregate, resulting in higher-SES students fleeing the system? It’s the kind of “achievement” that school-choice advocates would love—as the cost of the achievement is reduced support for public schools. You can disagree; I admit it’s a cynical take.

In my estimation, it’s already started. I’m shopping around cheaper privates and Catholics. I’m not rich, but will sacrifice other things to ensure my kids get a good foundational education that includes spelling, novels, and math that doesn’t cater to the lowest common denominator.

Hurrah. Now you’re starting to get it. Privates are a good option for some. Besides, we don’t really want people in our public schools who think the way you do.

But you do. You do want people who promote their high performing children. You just want them to sit by and help cater to those who do not perform at a high level.

But they might leave. Then out of the remaining students, inevitably, there will still be kids who perform at higher levels than their peers and either cant leave or will want their bored children's needs to be addressed. So what then, split them up to address the kids needs (cant do that) or slow it down more? Kids are born with all kinds of abilities and families exist with all kinds of circumstances. Kids will never be this monolith of learning and achieving the same thing no matter how much money is spent. We should celibrate and/or address our differences and individual journeys.

Keep trying to overcome those impossibilities and telling others you don't want them there because they want what they think is best for their kids. Thats a great approach.

My children are plenty high-performing. I don’t have this crippling anxiety you have that they are being shortchanged by efforts to lift up others. That’s the mentality we want gone. Your high-achieving children are a dime a dozen. It’s not like they will leave in droves. It’s only the ones with mentally defective parents who think the way we do we want gone.

So you want to separate kids from other kids on their learning journeys because of their parents priorities? Nice!

[Anonymous]

I feel that I did my part to help end racism and the horrors of white supremacy. I am a white woman and have 5 kids, all are black, 3 are from the same father while my 2 youngest are from other men that I had a falling out with. There is a racism gene tbut it's not a dominant gene, my kids look black and don't have it but it is common among whites i mean just look at history, it can be removed by bringing into the world non-racist children which means not having a white kid as that can allow the gene to pass on. This goes into racism and those who attack immigrants and refugees plus the LGBT community, it is white men and women overwhelmingly who do that, and it's because they have that gene and unfortunately in many cases I see that they have white kids so they passed it down for another generation. But ultimately hate will lose as the numbers are not in favor of that gene and while the world will be a few shades darker it will be MANY magnitudes better as hate and racism goes away. This is how I view it and raise my children the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel that I did my part to help end racism and the horrors of white supremacy. I am a white woman and have 5 kids, all are black, 3 are from the same father while my 2 youngest are from other men that I had a falling out with. There is a racism gene tbut it's not a dominant gene, my kids look black and don't have it but it is common among whites i mean just look at history, it can be removed by bringing into the world non-racist children which means not having a white kid as that can allow the gene to pass on. This goes into racism and those who attack immigrants and refugees plus the LGBT community, it is white men and women overwhelmingly who do that, and it's because they have that gene and unfortunately in many cases I see that they have white kids so they passed it down for another generation. But ultimately hate will lose as the numbers are not in favor of that gene and while the world will be a few shades darker it will be MANY magnitudes better as hate and racism goes away. This is how I view it and raise my children the same.

This would have been a skillful troll if it was just a little more subtle... but...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel that I did my part to help end racism and the horrors of white supremacy. I am a white woman and have 5 kids, all are black, 3 are from the same father while my 2 youngest are from other men that I had a falling out with. There is a racism gene tbut it's not a dominant gene, my kids look black and don't have it but it is common among whites i mean just look at history, it can be removed by bringing into the world non-racist children which means not having a white kid as that can allow the gene to pass on. This goes into racism and those who attack immigrants and refugees plus the LGBT community, it is white men and women overwhelmingly who do that, and it's because they have that gene and unfortunately in many cases I see that they have white kids so they passed it down for another generation. But ultimately hate will lose as the numbers are not in favor of that gene and while the world will be a few shades darker it will be MANY magnitudes better as hate and racism goes away. This is how I view it and raise my children the same.

Congratulations, you are a literal racist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel that I did my part to help end racism and the horrors of white supremacy. I am a white woman and have 5 kids, all are black, 3 are from the same father while my 2 youngest are from other men that I had a falling out with. There is a racism gene tbut it's not a dominant gene, my kids look black and don't have it but it is common among whites i mean just look at history, it can be removed by bringing into the world non-racist children which means not having a white kid as that can allow the gene to pass on. This goes into racism and those who attack immigrants and refugees plus the LGBT community, it is white men and women overwhelmingly who do that, and it's because they have that gene and unfortunately in many cases I see that they have white kids so they passed it down for another generation. But ultimately hate will lose as the numbers are not in favor of that gene and while the world will be a few shades darker it will be MANY magnitudes better as hate and racism goes away. This is how I view it and raise my children the same.

Congratulations, you are a literal racist

So you think your racism is a learned behavior, not genetic?

[Anonymous]

Congratulations, you are a literal racist

So you think your racism is a learned behavior, not genetic?

I think you’re trying to trick me, you rascal!!!



But seriously, I think racism, work ethic, and punctuality are all transmitted the same way - culturally, not genetically - because only a racist would assert that someone’s race “causes” their behavior.

[Anonymous]

That’s only one of many logical inconsistencies and contradictions in the DEI paradigm. Try squaring these two arguments.

(1) the goal of diversity is to push people out of their comfort zones and be around people of different backgrounds.

(2) people of color need to be around people who “look like them and have similar cultural backgrounds” to feel “safe.”

Uh…

Pro tip: the entire DEI concept is a fact-challenged cult that has more in common with QANON and MAGA than it does classic civil rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That’s only one of many logical inconsistencies and contradictions in the DEI paradigm. Try squaring these two arguments.

(1) the goal of diversity is to push people out of their comfort zones and be around people of different backgrounds.

(2) people of color need to be around people who “look like them and have similar cultural backgrounds” to feel “safe.”

Uh…

Pro tip: the entire DEI concept is a fact-challenged cult that has more in common with QANON and MAGA than it does classic civil rights.

It will take a sufficient enough of special boundary breaking people to achieve goal 1 to eventually achieve goal 2 for the masses. But
Goal 2 is both the objective and logical conclusion of achieving goal 1.

50 years ago medicine was a very male dominated professions. Later more women broke through then more. Yesterday I took a tour of a brand new hospital building that’s opening this spring and the female communal changing room is double the size of the mens because of the staff demographic!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think a lot on DCUM (who have generational wealth and are into all the wordsmith theory going on nowadays) don't realize that the old system did work to raise people up from the bottom if you had a strong support system.

I grew up lower middle class. My parents (yes, I had an involved father) instilled in me a hard work ethic and stressed that only through education would I make more money than them. I didn't have tutors, but I was in honors, ignored all the others trying to get me to skip school in high school, got good grades and now am part of the upper 10%. My children have had an easier start than I did.

If there isn't familial support, the equity steps taken won't matter except on paper by bringing people like my children down.

You were privileged to grow up in a 2-parent household.

For some races, 69% of kids are born to unwed mothers:
https://www.childtrends.org/publications/dramatic-increase-in-percentage-of-births-outside-marriage-among-whites-hispanics-and-women-with-higher-education-levels

That’s the consequence of poor decision making.

The child has no say in that.

Yep it’s unfortunate. But punishing my kid for the sins of their parents doesn’t fix that problem. Bottom line is that schools can’t fix shitty parents.

Single parent \= “shitty parent”

Especially considering the parent who is the “single parent” is the one who stepped up to the plate.

Agreed, but one of the two parents probably is.

That’s not to say that divorced/unwed parents can’t successfully raise a child to not need equitable measures. It for sure happens.

This. One of the parent is the shitty parent. This is especially true in the poor black communities where many fathers are incarcerated. Those that are not, many abandon their responsibilities to their kid and could care less. I have a good friend in this situation but she is lucky because she has support from her family and they are helping to raise him. These kids have no strong father figures at all.

The single moms with no support are working to support the family so no one is at home watching the kids. They then get into trouble, hang out with the wrong crowd, etc….

The other issue is that some households with 2 parents, they just don’t give a sh’t about the kids and are just unfit to be parents. Ask a teacher in a title 1 school about that and they can easily tell you the percentages and you would be surprised.

Those kids are getting in trouble because police and school administrators are racist. It's not their fault. If you look at arrest and incarceration rates, black males are way overrepresented.

So they are being framed?

NP. There are multiple components to the systemic racism that leads to higher incarceration rates.

Redlining
Lack of generational wealth
Untreated learning disabilities
Harsher consequences at school
Lack of knowledge about education/college
Bias in hiring
Bias in arrests
Harsher sentencing

It’s pretty easy for a kid to make a few mistakes when they are young and then never be able to pull themselves out of that hole.

Where is the personal responsibility?

Generational wealth - shitty parents, a whole bunch of them but realistically, there are tons of normal everyday middle class Americans of all colors without generational wealth.
Untreated learning disabilities - shitty parents
Lack of knowledge about college - shitty parents
Bias in arrests, sentencing - don’t care, stop committing crimes. This isn’t rocket science
Bias in hiring - racist quota systems set up in many institutions now. But remaining bias may also exist because all of the above is true.

So how does removing advanced math/tracking fix any of that? The kids who have bad parents and/or learning disabilities will still get as good an education as the school system is capable of giving. Systemic discrimination of kids with greater learning capabilities seems like a stupid answer to problems created by perceived systemic racism.

That’s not happening.

But go ahead and pretend like systemic racism isn’t happening.

VMPI was all just a dream. thankfully. But the original point of the exchange was that bad parents create bad outcomes, regardless of race. That includes leaving a child to be raised by one parent.

VMPI was never removing advanced math.

Might be tough to be a “good” parent if generations of your ancestors were blocked from becoming “good” parents. People are fundamentally good; everyone wants to be “good” parents. There are just fewer obstacles to being “good” parents for some people.

You are naive if you think VMPI wasn’t removing accelerated paths. I assume you knew as much and are just playing word games.

Nope. Not tough to stay with the mother or father of your child and choose to raise that child because something that happened to your grandparents. Tough to take personal responsibility to do what’s right. I wonder if Va schools are teaching the importance of two parent households, maybe that should be part of the equity model if it isn’t already.

It was not removing accelerated paths. It always included calculus and IB as options which are accelerated paths.

You don’t know what’s in the VA FLA curriculum? You sound like an external agitator. A privileged, racist external agitator.

Yep you don’t know what was happening in elementary schools in FCPS.

I’m surprised it took you this long to call someone racist. Probably held it as long as you could. Do you feel better? Good. I’m not racist or privileged.

And This doesn’t change the fact that people are abandoning their children and equity measures in va schools will not fix this. Personal responsibility, regardless of race, is always an answer.

VMPI wasn’t removing advanced math/accelerated paths.

Interesting that you are self-aware enough to recognize that your comments are racist - and you are ok with that.

VMPI was removing accelerated math paths.

Nope just responding to the accusation above. My comments just point out that abandoning children produces bad outcomes for children, regardless of race. The fundamental difference is where we lay blame on this tragedy. I blame the people abandoning the children.

VMPI was not removing advanced math/acceleration. Stop lying.

If parents were never given the tools to be better parents because of systemic racism then don’t fault them fully. We, the US, has a hand in the poor outcomes. We should collectively take some responsibility.

VMPI was going to remove accelerated paths.

Systemic racism is not the cause of fathers/mothers abandoning their kids. This is easy stuff. Its happening across the board. Single parent households have increased 5x and 10x rates in nearly every demo over the last 60 years. The state cant and shouldnt force people to be together. But poor outcomes for some children will be the result. If you want to argue studies that reveal POC being pulled over at less rates in the evening due to the inability to profile the driver etc... maybe Ill listen, although ive heard it. But regarding systemic racism causing parents to abandon children to be raised by the remaining parent, well, we will just have to agree to disagree. Have a good day.

You are lying. VMPI was NOT removing advanced math/accelerated paths. They always included IB/AP which required school districts to accelerate.

Systemic racist is absolutely a big factor when it comes to family outcomes. You can choose ignorance but that doesn’t make it go away.

You really should research maximum pathing on this. Guess we can agree to disagree on that as well. Have a good day.

What is the research on what is best for the smartest kids? Is it putting them in a classroom with a mix of academic high- and low-performers, or putting them in a classroom with only high-performers?

Is that a serious question lol

Look mixed classrooms are better for those at the bottom and hurt those at the top, that's common sense. Since the mandate is to close gaps that's why mixed classrooms are popular.

Additionally tracking will never happen again because it roughly correlates to income which roughly correlates to race and having the black and brown children in one classroom and the whites and asians in another doesn't fly in blue areas like this one.

and of course the irony is that rich white liberals pushing all this flip out if their kids are in this situation and will continue to enrich/go private if non tracking occurs in their district.

A decade from now I will act shocked when new parents, including liberal parents, refuse to enroll their kids in the local public schools due to lackluster academic outcomes. Further, I'm sure school-choice proponents are secretly rooting for implementation of equity initiatives, believing that they will fail and knowing they need the educational system to suffer a self-inflicted wound (i.e., liberal parents fleeing public schools) to truly advance school choice initiatives.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Charters only exist because mostly urban school distrcits have failed. You do realize charters are majority black and brown right....

You do realize that I’m speculating about a future 10 years from now, right? One in which the equity initiatives don’t improve academic outcomes for any students, but do “reduce” the achievement gap in particular schools when measured racially by reducing academic outcomes in the aggregate, resulting in higher-SES students fleeing the system? It’s the kind of “achievement” that school-choice advocates would love—as the cost of the achievement is reduced support for public schools. You can disagree; I admit it’s a cynical take.

In my estimation, it’s already started. I’m shopping around cheaper privates and Catholics. I’m not rich, but will sacrifice other things to ensure my kids get a good foundational education that includes spelling, novels, and math that doesn’t cater to the lowest common denominator.

Hurrah. Now you’re starting to get it. Privates are a good option for some. Besides, we don’t really want people in our public schools who think the way you do.

But you do. You do want people who promote their high performing children. You just want them to sit by and help cater to those who do not perform at a high level.

But they might leave. Then out of the remaining students, inevitably, there will still be kids who perform at higher levels than their peers and either cant leave or will want their bored children's needs to be addressed. So what then, split them up to address the kids needs (cant do that) or slow it down more? Kids are born with all kinds of abilities and families exist with all kinds of circumstances. Kids will never be this monolith of learning and achieving the same thing no matter how much money is spent. We should celibrate and/or address our differences and individual journeys.

Keep trying to overcome those impossibilities and telling others you don't want them there because they want what they think is best for their kids. Thats a great approach.

My children are plenty high-performing. I don’t have this crippling anxiety you have that they are being shortchanged by efforts to lift up others. That’s the mentality we want gone. Your high-achieving children are a dime a dozen. It’s not like they will leave in droves. It’s only the ones with mentally defective parents who think the way we do we want gone.

Wrong. The good teachers and good students are already leaving in droves.