Why are teachers and nurses underpaid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a nurse. I think nurses and teachers (and other professions that are not as well compensated as some of the DCUM professions) wouldn't complain as much if our salaries had kept up with inflation. No one goes into these professions to make loads of money, but you want to be able to make a living.
As far as demand/supply. Maybe that works more in the corporate world? In places with nursing shortages, they are not increasing wages. They hire travel nurses (who are $$ but cheaper than hiring staff with benefits long tern), they push the limits on staffing to dangerous levels. Some hospitals have began to hire foreign born nurses so they do not have to spend as much money.

As far as teaching, is it really a supply/demand issue? I mean Florida is hiring people without any qualifications to teach.

How long will they last? Teachers with education degrees and all the theoretical background that entails quit at a rate of over 40% in the first 5 years. Hiring anybody with a pulse, like FL has chosen to do, will be a bandaid measure at best. You’ll have an adult in a classroom until that adult decides to quit. It won’t take long under current conditions. You can make more with less stress elsewhere.

There are many, many certified teachers who are not teaching right now. In time, conditions will have to improve and many of them can return. What’s the alternative? One warm-bodied adult with 100 students online? That’s where we are heading.

[Anonymous]

Yes, it’s because they have been primarily female professions. Of course, if men started getting into it, then the salaries would increase.

[Anonymous]

It's always something with teachers. First during COVID many teachers unions refused to reopen schools, even after vaccines became widely available. The learning loss to our kids was immense. Now it's shifted to pay, even with many teachers making $80k+, solid benefits and oodles of vacation. And tomorrow it's going to be about some other perceived slight. Other workers take pride in their profession and just focus on getting the job done, but with teachers the whining just never ends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's always something with teachers. First during COVID many teachers unions refused to reopen schools, even after vaccines became widely available. The learning loss to our kids was immense. Now it's shifted to pay, even with many teachers making $80k+, solid benefits and oodles of vacation. And tomorrow it's going to be about some other perceived slight. Other workers take pride in their profession and just focus on getting the job done, but with teachers the whining just never ends.

Cute.

Perhaps you can look at this “whining” as legitimate frustrations about this profession. Look all over DCUM at the professionals who, to this very day, have not gone into the office because of Covid. At the height of the pandemic, it was absolutely appropriate for teachers to worry about exposure in Petri dish schools. They rebounded and found solutions. I was amazed by my daughter’s middle school English teacher, who taught Shakespeare online in such an engaging way. Teachers became innovative and made the best out of a bad situation. They came out of Covid to understaffed schools, so they are now doing the job of 2 for no increase in pay. They are disrespected at every single possible turn, but they will still work nights and weekends for kids other than their own.

I’ve said it before on this thread. We are going to hit crisis mode and then, too late, we will realize what we lost. Teachers are done being martyrs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Third teacher here. I was a National Merit Finalist. I also got into top law schools (I had a 172 on the LSAT), but I chose education over law because I thought the work would be more meaningful. It is, by and large, but I’ll admit that there are many days when I wish people didn’t make assumptions about my intelligence (or lack thereof) based on my profession. I think over time the field will draw fewer and fewer top students, and that’s a shame. We should be making education appealing to our top achievers, not making our top achievers second-guess themselves. This will be my last year in a school. I am exhausted and need a change.

So go to law school.

What do you think happens when we keep telling teachers to take their better opportunities? Who will be left to teach?

I’ve lost many coworkers in the last 5 years, all to better opportunities with more pay. We have openings in my department because there’s no one applying. We’re covering those classes on our planning periods, which is only going to lead to more burnout and more teachers quitting.

It's a trade off. Teaching is an entry level position. Many folks do it for a few years and then move on. Entry level positions are going to have lower salaries.

Many teach for a few years and then move on. That's true. But most[u] don't because we teach kids. That's what we do and that's what makes us invaluable. Do you really consider us entry level because if so, you are the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a nurse. I think nurses and teachers (and other professions that are not as well compensated as some of the DCUM professions) wouldn't complain as much if our salaries had kept up with inflation. No one goes into these professions to make loads of money, but you want to be able to make a living.
As far as demand/supply. Maybe that works more in the corporate world? In places with nursing shortages, they are not increasing wages. They hire travel nurses (who are $$ but cheaper than hiring staff with benefits long tern), they push the limits on staffing to dangerous levels. Some hospitals have began to hire foreign born nurses so they do not have to spend as much money.

As far as teaching, is it really a supply/demand issue? I mean Florida is hiring people without any qualifications to teach.

Those people are teaching. They are warm bodies brought in to babysit because kids can't sit in a classroom unattended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's always something with teachers. First during COVID many teachers unions refused to reopen schools, even after vaccines became widely available. The learning loss to our kids was immense. Now it's shifted to pay, even with many teachers making $80k+, solid benefits and oodles of vacation. And tomorrow it's going to be about some other perceived slight. Other workers take pride in their profession and just focus on getting the job done, but with teachers the whining just never ends.

It is laughable that people think unions could keep schools closed. My union's big accomplishment the year before Covid was a fan drive to raise money to buy fans for teachers in schools/classrooms with a/c.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a nurse. I think nurses and teachers (and other professions that are not as well compensated as some of the DCUM professions) wouldn't complain as much if our salaries had kept up with inflation. No one goes into these professions to make loads of money, but you want to be able to make a living.
As far as demand/supply. Maybe that works more in the corporate world? In places with nursing shortages, they are not increasing wages. They hire travel nurses (who are $$ but cheaper than hiring staff with benefits long tern), they push the limits on staffing to dangerous levels. Some hospitals have began to hire foreign born nurses so they do not have to spend as much money.

As far as teaching, is it really a supply/demand issue? I mean Florida is hiring people without any qualifications to teach.

Those people are teaching. They are warm bodies brought in to babysit because kids can't sit in a classroom unattended.

That's my point. If it was supply/demand, then you would be increasing salaries according to some of the arguments on this thread. But no, apparently that's not feasible. Instead, hire incompetent replacements.
In order to make teaching more appealing to students and really good students-you do have to increase salaries. Period. The let's just appeal to teachers/nurses sense of duty and call the professions a "calling" is BS. It's something used by the powers at be to not address fair compensation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a nurse. I think nurses and teachers (and other professions that are not as well compensated as some of the DCUM professions) wouldn't complain as much if our salaries had kept up with inflation. No one goes into these professions to make loads of money, but you want to be able to make a living.
As far as demand/supply. Maybe that works more in the corporate world? In places with nursing shortages, they are not increasing wages. They hire travel nurses (who are $$ but cheaper than hiring staff with benefits long tern), they push the limits on staffing to dangerous levels. Some hospitals have began to hire foreign born nurses so they do not have to spend as much money.

As far as teaching, is it really a supply/demand issue? I mean Florida is hiring people without any qualifications to teach.

Those people are teaching. They are warm bodies brought in to babysit because kids can't sit in a classroom unattended.

That's my point. If it was supply/demand, then you would be increasing salaries according to some of the arguments on this thread. But no, apparently that's not feasible. Instead, hire incompetent replacements.
In order to make teaching more appealing to students and really good students-you do have to increase salaries. Period. The let's just appeal to teachers/nurses sense of duty and call the professions a "calling" is BS. It's something used by the powers at be to not address fair compensation.

We’re getting to a critical point, however, and those powers-that-be can no longer refer to it as a “calling” in an effort to exploit. Teachers have had enough and they’re leaving. That’s why it’s becoming a supply and demand issue. The demand will be great when classrooms are empty. These half-measures (lowering requirements, etc) will not work. Districts will have to respond by correcting past errors. That’ll look like better compensation and more reasonable workloads. Unfortunately, it’ll take time for us to hit rock bottom before this will happen. Millions of kids will suffer first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it because both occupations are mainly performed by women, and women are not valued as highly as men?

THIS

This thread could have ended right here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's always something with teachers. First during COVID many teachers unions refused to reopen schools, even after vaccines became widely available. The learning loss to our kids was immense. Now it's shifted to pay, even with many teachers making $80k+, solid benefits and oodles of vacation. And tomorrow it's going to be about some other perceived slight. Other workers take pride in their profession and just focus on getting the job done, but with teachers the whining just never ends.

It is laughable that people think unions could keep schools closed. My union's big accomplishment the year before Covid was a fan drive to raise money to buy fans for teachers in schools/classrooms with a/c.

But unions did keep schools closed. DCPS did not reopen until much later because the union told administrators that teachers would simply refuse to show up to work.

[Anonymous]

EVERY industry is having a staffing crisis now - from the haircuttery to Fortune 500 companies. A million people died of Covid over the past two years. There is a labor shortage across the board. But of course, teachers complain the loudest.

[Anonymous]

I can't believe how dumb all of you are seriously

No one is underpaid. Yall are choosing and continuing to stay in a profession. If you are underpaid quit and do a job that pays more

It is supply and demand.

Starting salaries for teachers have increased because of supply and demand

I think some of you are jealous because you have 15 years in and are making peanuts. The pay scale is public knowledge

Props to the nurse on here that actually has some common sense

The current cycle is what happened with entry level IT labor. Look it up.

And yes teaching and nursing are entry level. At least in nursing there is a promotion path vs teaching where a 0 year teacher does the exact same thing as a 30 year teacher.

If you want to be paid more there has to be more job differentiation to allow for higher salaries and guess what its unions that are fighting against that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's always something with teachers. First during COVID many teachers unions refused to reopen schools, even after vaccines became widely available. The learning loss to our kids was immense. Now it's shifted to pay, even with many teachers making $80k+, solid benefits and oodles of vacation. And tomorrow it's going to be about some other perceived slight. Other workers take pride in their profession and just focus on getting the job done, but with teachers the whining just never ends.

It is laughable that people think unions could keep schools closed. My union's big accomplishment the year before Covid was a fan drive to raise money to buy fans for teachers in schools/classrooms with a/c.

But unions did keep schools closed. DCPS did not reopen until much later because the union told administrators that teachers would simply refuse to show up to work.

How do you explain it in non-union states like VA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:EVERY industry is having a staffing crisis now - from the haircuttery to Fortune 500 companies. A million people died of Covid over the past two years. There is a labor shortage across the board. But of course, teachers complain the loudest.

I bet this thread wasn't started by a teacher.