Why are teachers and nurses underpaid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s all supply vs demand.

Are teachers in Mississippi underpaid at like 30k a year? Absolutely.

Is an individual teacher making 30k in Mississippi underpaid? Maybe not. If we tripled the pay to 90k it’s more likely that the 30k teacher should be out of a job as the talent pool would increase and we would hire better teachers.

So even a teacher in Virginia making 100k who “thinks” they should make 200k May not be able to keep their job if we were fair about keeping it meritocratic. Even if they keep their jobs it would likely result in the majority of their coworkers losing their jobs if we are being fair.

Right, if we announced that in 8 years all new teacher will make $1M a year, what would happen? People that would be teachers under the current salary structure would be almost all replaced by more talented/skilled candidates. The teaching ranks would be filled with 4.0GPA Ivy League PHD graduates. The state school graduates with a 3.8 wouldn’t even get interviews at the toughest schools to teach let alone a suburban job.

Wait… you think all it takes to be a good teacher is to be an Ivy League graduate with a 4.0? You know absolutely nothing about teaching. Nothing. Teaching is just as much an art as it is about content knowledge. You need to be smart, but you also need to be able to transfer that knowledge to others. An Ivy League degree, a 4.0 GPA… neither of those means you naturally have the personality and other intangible skills to be a teacher. Think of your good ones. They knew how to engage, motivate, run a class. You can put people through college coursework to theoretically look at how to do this, but not everybody can actually recreate this in a true classroom.

Under your absurd $1M model, we’d have a ton of people apply and a ton of people wash out because they can’t hack it. Which, incidentally, already happens since burn-out is so high. It would certainly work as a plan because we’d have more candidates, but you’re wrong about who would make it through.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Third teacher here. I was a National Merit Finalist. I also got into top law schools (I had a 172 on the LSAT), but I chose education over law because I thought the work would be more meaningful. It is, by and large, but I’ll admit that there are many days when I wish people didn’t make assumptions about my intelligence (or lack thereof) based on my profession. I think over time the field will draw fewer and fewer top students, and that’s a shame. We should be making education appealing to our top achievers, not making our top achievers second-guess themselves. This will be my last year in a school. I am exhausted and need a change.

So go to law school.

What do you think happens when we keep telling teachers to take their better opportunities? Who will be left to teach?

I’ve lost many coworkers in the last 5 years, all to better opportunities with more pay. We have openings in my department because there’s no one applying. We’re covering those classes on our planning periods, which is only going to lead to more burnout and more teachers quitting.

It's a trade off. Teaching is an entry level position. Many folks do it for a few years and then move on. Entry level positions are going to have lower salaries.

There’s nothing “entry level” about teaching. Many teachers would tell you that you don’t hit a stride until years 8 or 9. The job is demanding and it takes years to build the bag of tricks that make it easier.

As for people teaching for a few years and moving on, it’s often because they are overwhelmed by the workload and emotional toll. Burnout is HIGH in the first 5 years.

It absolutely is an entry level position. That mastery may take some time doesn't change the fact that it's entry level.

Nobody considers teaching an entry-level position. I can’t roll my eyes enough.

It’s fun to insult teachers. I get it. You’ll have to try a bit harder, though. We’re used to silliness and absurdity.

It is 100% entry level because someone with 0 teaching experience does the job.

Look your profession is screwed up because of unions.

There needs to be position differentiation and then pay differentiation

Currently it is truly laughable someone with 20 years experience has the exact same job as someone with 0 years of experience. That's why the pay is so out of whack.

Screwed up because of unions??? That's laughable. There are many reasons that the profession is crumbling and not one of them is because of a union - ESPECIALLY in Virginia.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are teachers really underpaid?

I know a teacher who teaches special Ed 4th graders. She is pulling in $133k per year with 18 years in. Insane benefits and a pension. The ones who bellyache the most about being underpaid in teaching are the ones who don't have a lot of years in and who work at crappy school districts.

Go read up on the epic debacle of the entire state of Illinois. There are teachers there collecting like $100-200k per year in pension who make more in pension than they made in contributions to the system. They didn't even serve as senior level teaching admin positions. It's completely absurd.

Don't forget, they get paid $133k per year PLUS all the holidays and 3 months off in the summer. PLUS lavish pensions and benefits. It's really a part time job at full time pay.

I read that teachers are more likely to whine than other professions. That seems to be indeed the case just looking through this thread...

[Anonymous]

80K doesn’t cut if you live in MOCO(rent/mortgage is expensive and so are all utilities, groceries, transportation.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it because both occupations are mainly performed by women, and women are not valued as highly as men?

Hello Supply, meet Demand.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Third teacher here. I was a National Merit Finalist. I also got into top law schools (I had a 172 on the LSAT), but I chose education over law because I thought the work would be more meaningful. It is, by and large, but I’ll admit that there are many days when I wish people didn’t make assumptions about my intelligence (or lack thereof) based on my profession. I think over time the field will draw fewer and fewer top students, and that’s a shame. We should be making education appealing to our top achievers, not making our top achievers second-guess themselves. This will be my last year in a school. I am exhausted and need a change.

So go to law school.

What do you think happens when we keep telling teachers to take their better opportunities? Who will be left to teach?

I’ve lost many coworkers in the last 5 years, all to better opportunities with more pay. We have openings in my department because there’s no one applying. We’re covering those classes on our planning periods, which is only going to lead to more burnout and more teachers quitting.

It's a trade off. Teaching is an entry level position. Many folks do it for a few years and then move on. Entry level positions are going to have lower salaries.

There’s nothing “entry level” about teaching. Many teachers would tell you that you don’t hit a stride until years 8 or 9. The job is demanding and it takes years to build the bag of tricks that make it easier.

As for people teaching for a few years and moving on, it’s often because they are overwhelmed by the workload and emotional toll. Burnout is HIGH in the first 5 years.

It absolutely is an entry level position. That mastery may take some time doesn't change the fact that it's entry level.

Nobody considers teaching an entry-level position. I can’t roll my eyes enough.

It’s fun to insult teachers. I get it. You’ll have to try a bit harder, though. We’re used to silliness and absurdity.

It is 100% entry level because someone with 0 teaching experience does the job.

Look your profession is screwed up because of unions.

There needs to be position differentiation and then pay differentiation

Currently it is truly laughable someone with 20 years experience has the exact same job as someone with 0 years of experience. That's why the pay is so out of whack.

This.

This.

This.

But the kids won't hear it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:80K doesn’t cut if you live in MOCO(rent/mortgage is expensive and so are all utilities, groceries, transportation.)

Plenty of bus drivers and administrative assistants make around that. So $80k is a actually pretty solid salary in MOCO, plus all those benefits and months and months of vacation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are teachers really underpaid?

I know a teacher who teaches special Ed 4th graders. She is pulling in $133k per year with 18 years in. Insane benefits and a pension. The ones who bellyache the most about being underpaid in teaching are the ones who don't have a lot of years in and who work at crappy school districts.

Go read up on the epic debacle of the entire state of Illinois. There are teachers there collecting like $100-200k per year in pension who make more in pension than they made in contributions to the system. They didn't even serve as senior level teaching admin positions. It's completely absurd.

Don't forget, they get paid $133k per year PLUS all the holidays and 3 months off in the summer. PLUS lavish pensions and benefits. It's really a part time job at full time pay.

I read that teachers are more likely to whine than other professions. That seems to be indeed the case just looking through this thread...

Who is getting paid $133K a year to teach with 18 years in? LMK because I'll move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are teachers really underpaid?

I know a teacher who teaches special Ed 4th graders. She is pulling in $133k per year with 18 years in. Insane benefits and a pension. The ones who bellyache the most about being underpaid in teaching are the ones who don't have a lot of years in and who work at crappy school districts.

Go read up on the epic debacle of the entire state of Illinois. There are teachers there collecting like $100-200k per year in pension who make more in pension than they made in contributions to the system. They didn't even serve as senior level teaching admin positions. It's completely absurd.

Don't forget, they get paid $133k per year PLUS all the holidays and 3 months off in the summer. PLUS lavish pensions and benefits. It's really a part time job at full time pay.

I read that teachers are more likely to whine than other professions. That seems to be indeed the case just looking through this thread...

Who is getting paid $133K a year to teach with 18 years in? LMK because I'll move.

Also - the three months of vacation. LMK. So what I am specifically asking for is to see a salary scale where a school district is paying a teacher on year 18 133K a year and the contract gives three months of unpaid leave over the summer. So that would be (for arguments sake) finishing on say the 15th of June and not returning until 15th September.

[Anonymous]

This thread has really jumped into the absurd. Two or three posters, the ones making claims of $130K salaries for easy work, are clearly posting just to draw the ire from teachers. I’m not sure of the motive (boredom?), but logical people reading this thread can see it’s time for the thread to end.

If the job were really that easy and if it were paid appropriately, we wouldn’t be facing a nationwide shortage. Teachers are quitting because they feel overworked, underpaid, and disrespected. Period. The market speaks: when we pay and respect teachers more, they will come back to the profession.

We all lose until that happens, especially our kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think nurses feel underpaid because of chronic understaffing, particularly in hospitals. So are you underpaid if you are doing the work of two people but being paid for one? Yes.

This is so true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No profession is underpaid. All professions operate under supply and demand.

You individually might feel like you are underpaid. If you are switch careers to a job that is in higher demand with a higher salary.

It's not about how much a profession contributes to society. Teachers, nurses, scientists, etc might contribute more to society than a big law attorney or a specialized salesman, but they are more replaceable.

[Anonymous]

I am a nurse. I think nurses and teachers (and other professions that are not as well compensated as some of the DCUM professions) wouldn't complain as much if our salaries had kept up with inflation. No one goes into these professions to make loads of money, but you want to be able to make a living.
As far as demand/supply. Maybe that works more in the corporate world? In places with nursing shortages, they are not increasing wages. They hire travel nurses (who are $$ but cheaper than hiring staff with benefits long tern), they push the limits on staffing to dangerous levels. Some hospitals have began to hire foreign born nurses so they do not have to spend as much money.

As far as teaching, is it really a supply/demand issue? I mean Florida is hiring people without any qualifications to teach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are teachers really underpaid?

I know a teacher who teaches special Ed 4th graders. She is pulling in $133k per year with 18 years in. Insane benefits and a pension. The ones who bellyache the most about being underpaid in teaching are the ones who don't have a lot of years in and who work at crappy school districts.

Go read up on the epic debacle of the entire state of Illinois. There are teachers there collecting like $100-200k per year in pension who make more in pension than they made in contributions to the system. They didn't even serve as senior level teaching admin positions. It's completely absurd.

Don't forget, they get paid $133k per year PLUS all the holidays and 3 months off in the summer. PLUS lavish pensions and benefits. It's really a part time job at full time pay.

I read that teachers are more likely to whine than other professions. That seems to be indeed the case just looking through this thread...

Who is getting paid $133K a year to teach with 18 years in? LMK because I'll move.

How lavish are the pensions and benefits in Illinois? I’m genuinely curious. People post things like this, but they don’t give specifics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are teachers really underpaid?

I know a teacher who teaches special Ed 4th graders. She is pulling in $133k per year with 18 years in. Insane benefits and a pension. The ones who bellyache the most about being underpaid in teaching are the ones who don't have a lot of years in and who work at crappy school districts.

Go read up on the epic debacle of the entire state of Illinois. There are teachers there collecting like $100-200k per year in pension who make more in pension than they made in contributions to the system. They didn't even serve as senior level teaching admin positions. It's completely absurd.

Don't forget, they get paid $133k per year PLUS all the holidays and 3 months off in the summer. PLUS lavish pensions and benefits. It's really a part time job at full time pay.

I read that teachers are more likely to whine than other professions. That seems to be indeed the case just looking through this thread...

Who is getting paid $133K a year to teach with 18 years in? LMK because I'll move.

Also - the three months of vacation. LMK. So what I am specifically asking for is to see a salary scale where a school district is paying a teacher on year 18 133K a year and the contract gives three months of unpaid leave over the summer. So that would be (for arguments sake) finishing on say the 15th of June and not returning until 15th September.

Don’t hold your breath.