$80k In Debt Worth It for Ivy Undergrad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d tell your parents that you are going to transfer to a less prestigious school because you don’t want to take out loans. If they don’t get bragging rights anymore, they might change their mind about funding the Ivy.

I agree with this. Do not go $80K into debt for a college you don't even want to be at -- especially one that was so toxic for you that you contemplated suicide! There are other schools out there where you can finish your degree for much less money and hopefully a better fit. Your parents are trash for taking this approach.

-1

OP's parent's aren't trash for taking this approach. They're 100% right that a Columbia degree will open up doors for the rest of OP's life.

OP, take the debt and finish up at Columbia. Get over your fear of "stressful, competitive" jobs (whatever the hell that means) and take that six-figure job offer after graduation so you can pay down your student loans.

Oh, and BTW, going into arts administration or non-profits or environmental education will be a decision you'll regret for the rest of your life. No question there.

A few years out no one cares where you went to college. What matters is who you've gotten to know and what you've actually done. Perhaps having gone to Columbia means knowing some people who could be useful in life, but it's not like at age 30 anyone is still talking about your college. I am married to a guy who didn't even finish the low-ranked college he started at and he's doing great.

YMMV. Some of us continue to benefit from the strong alumni networks, and academic, cultural, social, and career oriented resources offered by our colleges. While this isn’t advocating for staying at a school that’s a bad fit, don’t pretend that “no one cares”. For some of us, especially POC, it may be the difference between getting an interview— or not, or being the first generation in our families to offer broader experiences to our kids, should we choose to do so. I’m glad that your guy is doing great. Not everyone gets to do a JD Vance though. And “who you’ve gotten to know” can be enormously impacted by where you go to college and where you’ve gone to college —especially for those of us whose families don’t have the kinds of connections that lead to UMC careers.

As someone who formerly worked in admissions, I would see this application to a seven sisters' nontraditional student program and toss it immediately. The people they are looking for are not Asians who had mental health issues and struggled despite coming from a UMC background - a teen mom who worked her way through the early childcare years, sure, but not someone who has never managed to overcome any adversity. Her resume and history screams that any acceptance would be wasted on her - why would we let in someone who had pretty much every opportunity (because OP, you do) and squandered it? Finally, the students at the seven sisters are not ALL significantly different than an Ivy, and there are the SLAC types at Ivy League schools as well. When I got into the Ivies, we used seven sisters as safety schools. The people I know who attended Smith, Vassar, Barnard all just didn't get into the Ivies, but they had the same mentality as those of us who did.

This is a long winded way of saying that OP really should accept that for her, work will probably suck no matter what it is. The key is to figure out the job that pays you the most with the least hours and focus on other hobbies and interests to fulfill yourself. And that high-pay, low-effort job only comes after you pay your dues by way of finance, biglaw, residency, etc.

OP here. You're right that an admissions office would probably be wary of my application. I do think that getting to graduate from a Seven Sisters school with little to no debt (since only my income would be considered for financial aid purposes at that point and not my parents') would put me in a much better spot than taking out $80k in loans to go to Columbia. I also don't know how an admissions officer would be able to glean that I left Columbia for mental health reasons (and not, say, my financial reasons) if I don't disclose this on my application.

And I've had your same thoughts about work sucking for me no matter what and having to pay my dues in some soul-crushing career in my 20s. But I am not mentally healthy or stable enough to stick it out in Big Law, MBB, BB IB, or residency. If I can't even handle college, how the hell am I supposed to handle a high-pressure, competitive, cutthroat atmosphere in whatever job or industry that will allow me to pay my dues for an eventual "high-pay, low-effort" job in the future?

Many of my friends are interning in BB IB or MBB this summer. Although most of them are much more mentally healthy and stable than I am, they're still absolutely miserable and depressed because of the intense, competitive nature of those jobs. When Goldman Sachs analysts are saying that their job is worse than foster care ( https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/18/group-of-junior-bankers-at-goldman-sachs-claim-inhumane-work-conditions ), it's time for me to re-evaluate what to do post-grad. For me, I think what will keep me the most sane, mentally healthy, and stable after graduation (keep in mind I am not any of these things right now) is not stepping on the treadmill of a grueling career (even if it'll set me up for success later), but taking a relatively chill job that I'll (at least somewhat) enjoy. Whether that's at a non-profit or maybe working on a farm or something else is up in the air, but what I do know for certain is that taking out $80k in loans will completely eliminate that possibility for me.

I don't know. But I was looking at MBB consulting internships for Summer 2023 a few weeks ago (the deadline to apply is coming up soon). Just hearing about the work they do and the case interview seems soul-sucking. I don't think I'd be able to survive, even for a year, in that sort of environment because I am not healthy at the moment.

PP here. There will be an expectation that you tell the story of why you’re applying as a nontraditional applicant. While you can gloss over a gap between jobs or during undergrad, it’s much harder to explain if you don’t actually overcome the adversity. Your story screams that you run away from hard things.

[Anonymous]

So do what I did and marry a high earner. You should be working on that now. Men like college degrees, but it doesn't have to be from Harvard, especially if you get into debt. Are you reasonably attractive? I am the person who suggested being a nanny so you can live rent-free. I married a medical student, and I didn't have a bachelor's degree when I met him. I am still working on it.

[Anonymous]

Personally, my DH and I are doing fine without ivy degrees. I'm not even in my PhD field anymore. I just use the degree to check a box saying I have one. Yes, I'm sure having an ivy degree will open doors at the beginning, and this may give you a leg up for the rest of your life. But is it worth you sanity? I don't think so. You don't sound like a person who needs wealth and prestige to be happy. You just need to be left alone to find your own way on your own terms.

I think whichever you decide - to plow through and take the debt and get the degree or to switch to a cheaper school and get a degree somewhere else - will be fine in the long run. One is not inherently better or worse than the other. The most important thing is to gain independence from your parents and then go low/no contact.

If you haven't already, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/insaneparents/ and hopefully really internalize that it's not you - the problem is THEM. They are manipulative, selfish, and hypocritical, and you need to be free of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So do what I did and marry a high earner. You should be working on that now. Men like college degrees, but it doesn't have to be from Harvard, especially if you get into debt. Are you reasonably attractive? I am the person who suggested being a nanny so you can live rent-free. I married a medical student, and I didn't have a bachelor's degree when I met him. I am still working on it.

Hahaha, I'm Asian so I guess that works in my favor...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d tell your parents that you are going to transfer to a less prestigious school because you don’t want to take out loans. If they don’t get bragging rights anymore, they might change their mind about funding the Ivy.

I agree with this. Do not go $80K into debt for a college you don't even want to be at -- especially one that was so toxic for you that you contemplated suicide! There are other schools out there where you can finish your degree for much less money and hopefully a better fit. Your parents are trash for taking this approach.

-1

OP's parent's aren't trash for taking this approach. They're 100% right that a Columbia degree will open up doors for the rest of OP's life.

OP, take the debt and finish up at Columbia. Get over your fear of "stressful, competitive" jobs (whatever the hell that means) and take that six-figure job offer after graduation so you can pay down your student loans.

Oh, and BTW, going into arts administration or non-profits or environmental education will be a decision you'll regret for the rest of your life. No question there.

A few years out no one cares where you went to college. What matters is who you've gotten to know and what you've actually done. Perhaps having gone to Columbia means knowing some people who could be useful in life, but it's not like at age 30 anyone is still talking about your college. I am married to a guy who didn't even finish the low-ranked college he started at and he's doing great.

YMMV. Some of us continue to benefit from the strong alumni networks, and academic, cultural, social, and career oriented resources offered by our colleges. While this isn’t advocating for staying at a school that’s a bad fit, don’t pretend that “no one cares”. For some of us, especially POC, it may be the difference between getting an interview— or not, or being the first generation in our families to offer broader experiences to our kids, should we choose to do so. I’m glad that your guy is doing great. Not everyone gets to do a JD Vance though. And “who you’ve gotten to know” can be enormously impacted by where you go to college and where you’ve gone to college —especially for those of us whose families don’t have the kinds of connections that lead to UMC careers.

As someone who formerly worked in admissions, I would see this application to a seven sisters' nontraditional student program and toss it immediately. The people they are looking for are not Asians who had mental health issues and struggled despite coming from a UMC background - a teen mom who worked her way through the early childcare years, sure, but not someone who has never managed to overcome any adversity. Her resume and history screams that any acceptance would be wasted on her - why would we let in someone who had pretty much every opportunity (because OP, you do) and squandered it? Finally, the students at the seven sisters are not ALL significantly different than an Ivy, and there are the SLAC types at Ivy League schools as well. When I got into the Ivies, we used seven sisters as safety schools. The people I know who attended Smith, Vassar, Barnard all just didn't get into the Ivies, but they had the same mentality as those of us who did.

This is a long winded way of saying that OP really should accept that for her, work will probably suck no matter what it is. The key is to figure out the job that pays you the most with the least hours and focus on other hobbies and interests to fulfill yourself. And that high-pay, low-effort job only comes after you pay your dues by way of finance, biglaw, residency, etc.

OP here. You're right that an admissions office would probably be wary of my application. I do think that getting to graduate from a Seven Sisters school with little to no debt (since only my income would be considered for financial aid purposes at that point and not my parents') would put me in a much better spot than taking out $80k in loans to go to Columbia. I also don't know how an admissions officer would be able to glean that I left Columbia for mental health reasons (and not, say, my financial reasons) if I don't disclose this on my application.

And I've had your same thoughts about work sucking for me no matter what and having to pay my dues in some soul-crushing career in my 20s. But I am not mentally healthy or stable enough to stick it out in Big Law, MBB, BB IB, or residency. If I can't even handle college, how the hell am I supposed to handle a high-pressure, competitive, cutthroat atmosphere in whatever job or industry that will allow me to pay my dues for an eventual "high-pay, low-effort" job in the future?

Many of my friends are interning in BB IB or MBB this summer. Although most of them are much more mentally healthy and stable than I am, they're still absolutely miserable and depressed because of the intense, competitive nature of those jobs. When Goldman Sachs analysts are saying that their job is worse than foster care ( https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/18/group-of-junior-bankers-at-goldman-sachs-claim-inhumane-work-conditions ), it's time for me to re-evaluate what to do post-grad. For me, I think what will keep me the most sane, mentally healthy, and stable after graduation (keep in mind I am not any of these things right now) is not stepping on the treadmill of a grueling career (even if it'll set me up for success later), but taking a relatively chill job that I'll (at least somewhat) enjoy. Whether that's at a non-profit or maybe working on a farm or something else is up in the air, but what I do know for certain is that taking out $80k in loans will completely eliminate that possibility for me.

I don't know. But I was looking at MBB consulting internships for Summer 2023 a few weeks ago (the deadline to apply is coming up soon). Just hearing about the work they do and the case interview seems soul-sucking. I don't think I'd be able to survive, even for a year, in that sort of environment because I am not healthy at the moment.

PP here. There will be an expectation that you tell the story of why you’re applying as a nontraditional applicant. While you can gloss over a gap between jobs or during undergrad, it’s much harder to explain if you don’t actually overcome the adversity. Your story screams that you run away from hard things.

OP here. You're definitely right. Just wondering, PP, if I frame the reason why I left as financial (which is not entirely inaccurate), will admissions officers slot that under the vein of "running away from hard things?"

I think taking out $80k in loans is something reasonable to run away from....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Personally, my DH and I are doing fine without ivy degrees. I'm not even in my PhD field anymore. I just use the degree to check a box saying I have one. Yes, I'm sure having an ivy degree will open doors at the beginning, and this may give you a leg up for the rest of your life. But is it worth you sanity? I don't think so. You don't sound like a person who needs wealth and prestige to be happy. You just need to be left alone to find your own way on your own terms.

I think whichever you decide - to plow through and take the debt and get the degree or to switch to a cheaper school and get a degree somewhere else - will be fine in the long run. One is not inherently better or worse than the other. The most important thing is to gain independence from your parents and then go low/no contact.

If you haven't already, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/insaneparents/ and hopefully really internalize that it's not you - the problem is THEM. They are manipulative, selfish, and hypocritical, and you need to be free of them.

OP here, thanks for the words of support. But most of the other commenters on this thread seem to say that a Columbia degree is definitely worth my sanity. Maybe these people are super dependent on wealth and prestige.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Personally, my DH and I are doing fine without ivy degrees. I'm not even in my PhD field anymore. I just use the degree to check a box saying I have one. Yes, I'm sure having an ivy degree will open doors at the beginning, and this may give you a leg up for the rest of your life. But is it worth you sanity? I don't think so. You don't sound like a person who needs wealth and prestige to be happy. You just need to be left alone to find your own way on your own terms.

I think whichever you decide - to plow through and take the debt and get the degree or to switch to a cheaper school and get a degree somewhere else - will be fine in the long run. One is not inherently better or worse than the other. The most important thing is to gain independence from your parents and then go low/no contact.

If you haven't already, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/insaneparents/ and hopefully really internalize that it's not you - the problem is THEM. They are manipulative, selfish, and hypocritical, and you need to be free of them.

PP, you're wrong. OP's parents are NOT insane, manipulative, selfish, or hypocritical. They're being perfectly reasonable -- who wouldn't want their kid to graduate from Columbia?!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally, my DH and I are doing fine without ivy degrees. I'm not even in my PhD field anymore. I just use the degree to check a box saying I have one. Yes, I'm sure having an ivy degree will open doors at the beginning, and this may give you a leg up for the rest of your life. But is it worth you sanity? I don't think so. You don't sound like a person who needs wealth and prestige to be happy. You just need to be left alone to find your own way on your own terms.

I think whichever you decide - to plow through and take the debt and get the degree or to switch to a cheaper school and get a degree somewhere else - will be fine in the long run. One is not inherently better or worse than the other. The most important thing is to gain independence from your parents and then go low/no contact.

If you haven't already, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/insaneparents/ and hopefully really internalize that it's not you - the problem is THEM. They are manipulative, selfish, and hypocritical, and you need to be free of them.

PP, you're wrong. OP's parents are NOT insane, manipulative, selfish, or hypocritical. They're being perfectly reasonable -- who wouldn't want their kid to graduate from Columbia?!!!

+1

That degree will brand OP for the rest of her life. Even if it costs her "sanity" for a few years.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:80k is definitely enough, particularly if you will make 100k+ after graduation.

I really think you can stick it through and graduate. If you drop out, chances of you going back are slim. I feel like at every college there's a spot for you. You need to research jobs more and figure out what you're good at. Don't go into law school if you don't like the law- it will be very boring. I actually love the law, love my niche area and enjoy it. So it makes the grunt work (the hard part is reading and analyzing tens of thousands of pages) enjoyable.

What did you actually like doing in school? History? Research? English? Math? What about data analytics?

OP here. Again, I have no desire to go into the kind of high-pressure, competitive jobs that pay $100k to a recent college grad.

I'm interested in publishing, arts administration, non-profit work, and environmental education. Not exactly fields that Columbia undergrads are known to go into (seriously, it seems like everyone around me is gunning for FAANG, BB IB, MBB, or law/med school).

Wishing you well Op. just be aware that the fields you mentioned, especially the first two, are very hard to get into and jobs often go to rich, well- connected kids through no merit of their own. You sound like an idealist and I can see why Columbia is a poor fit.

OP sounds like an idiot.

OP, listen to me. Careers like publishing, arts administration, NPO work, and "environmental education" (whatever the hell that is) are for rich kids whose parents can bankroll their living expenses after graduation and pay for a downpayment on their first house. That's obviously not you. Suck it up and stay at Columbia, no matter how bad it is for your "mental health." Then get out and CRUSH IT in finance/consulting/tech so you can build the generational wealth for your kids that you parents so clearly failed to provide.

+1

I know, I got to this and thought to myself “oh dear.” OP has no clue how all this works. Publishing, arts admin, NPO, etc. are competitive even for Columbia grads with good grades and internships. Too much demand to meet the supply of jobs, which is why they can get away with paying people peanuts.

OP here. Valid, but I don't know any Columbia grads going into publishing or arts administration -- around me, it seems like it's Big Law/MBB/BB IB/FAANG/ med school all the way.

Do you hang with the rich kids? Bc they’re the only ones who can afford to stay in NYC and make ~ 45k a year.

My social circle is mainly UMC Asian-Americans (some of them are on the high end of UMC). I have one friend who is a trust-fund kid, but she's still gunning for finance (exactly why is beyond me....).

There's also no rule saying that I have to stay in NYC. I would actually prefer not to because it's way too expensive for me.

Finance is super intellectually satisfying. We discuss the housing demand, next week we could be discussing what kind of weapon go to Ukraine and who supply their chips.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally, my DH and I are doing fine without ivy degrees. I'm not even in my PhD field anymore. I just use the degree to check a box saying I have one. Yes, I'm sure having an ivy degree will open doors at the beginning, and this may give you a leg up for the rest of your life. But is it worth you sanity? I don't think so. You don't sound like a person who needs wealth and prestige to be happy. You just need to be left alone to find your own way on your own terms.

I think whichever you decide - to plow through and take the debt and get the degree or to switch to a cheaper school and get a degree somewhere else - will be fine in the long run. One is not inherently better or worse than the other. The most important thing is to gain independence from your parents and then go low/no contact.

If you haven't already, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/insaneparents/ and hopefully really internalize that it's not you - the problem is THEM. They are manipulative, selfish, and hypocritical, and you need to be free of them.

PP, you're wrong. OP's parents are NOT insane, manipulative, selfish, or hypocritical. They're being perfectly reasonable -- who wouldn't want their kid to graduate from Columbia?!!!

I can't tell if this is sarcasm. It's sarcasm, right? OP, be wary of taking advice from an anonymous board. There's a thread in the money section where people admit to making up stories around here.

In the the first post, OP describes how their childhood was miserable, there was tons of pressure and yelling, telling OP they are worthless, and then threatening to disown OP if they don't take $80k in loans. OP now has suicidal ideation.

This has to be sarcasm... right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d tell your parents that you are going to transfer to a less prestigious school because you don’t want to take out loans. If they don’t get bragging rights anymore, they might change their mind about funding the Ivy.

I agree with this. Do not go $80K into debt for a college you don't even want to be at -- especially one that was so toxic for you that you contemplated suicide! There are other schools out there where you can finish your degree for much less money and hopefully a better fit. Your parents are trash for taking this approach.

-1

OP's parent's aren't trash for taking this approach. They're 100% right that a Columbia degree will open up doors for the rest of OP's life.

OP, take the debt and finish up at Columbia. Get over your fear of "stressful, competitive" jobs (whatever the hell that means) and take that six-figure job offer after graduation so you can pay down your student loans.

Oh, and BTW, going into arts administration or non-profits or environmental education will be a decision you'll regret for the rest of your life. No question there.

A few years out no one cares where you went to college. What matters is who you've gotten to know and what you've actually done. Perhaps having gone to Columbia means knowing some people who could be useful in life, but it's not like at age 30 anyone is still talking about your college. I am married to a guy who didn't even finish the low-ranked college he started at and he's doing great.

YMMV. Some of us continue to benefit from the strong alumni networks, and academic, cultural, social, and career oriented resources offered by our colleges. While this isn’t advocating for staying at a school that’s a bad fit, don’t pretend that “no one cares”. For some of us, especially POC, it may be the difference between getting an interview— or not, or being the first generation in our families to offer broader experiences to our kids, should we choose to do so. I’m glad that your guy is doing great. Not everyone gets to do a JD Vance though. And “who you’ve gotten to know” can be enormously impacted by where you go to college and where you’ve gone to college —especially for those of us whose families don’t have the kinds of connections that lead to UMC careers.

As someone who formerly worked in admissions, I would see this application to a seven sisters' nontraditional student program and toss it immediately. The people they are looking for are not Asians who had mental health issues and struggled despite coming from a UMC background - a teen mom who worked her way through the early childcare years, sure, but not someone who has never managed to overcome any adversity. Her resume and history screams that any acceptance would be wasted on her - why would we let in someone who had pretty much every opportunity (because OP, you do) and squandered it? Finally, the students at the seven sisters are not ALL significantly different than an Ivy, and there are the SLAC types at Ivy League schools as well. When I got into the Ivies, we used seven sisters as safety schools. The people I know who attended Smith, Vassar, Barnard all just didn't get into the Ivies, but they had the same mentality as those of us who did.

This is a long winded way of saying that OP really should accept that for her, work will probably suck no matter what it is. The key is to figure out the job that pays you the most with the least hours and focus on other hobbies and interests to fulfill yourself. And that high-pay, low-effort job only comes after you pay your dues by way of finance, biglaw, residency, etc.

OP here. You're right that an admissions office would probably be wary of my application. I do think that getting to graduate from a Seven Sisters school with little to no debt (since only my income would be considered for financial aid purposes at that point and not my parents') would put me in a much better spot than taking out $80k in loans to go to Columbia. I also don't know how an admissions officer would be able to glean that I left Columbia for mental health reasons (and not, say, my financial reasons) if I don't disclose this on my application.

And I've had your same thoughts about work sucking for me no matter what and having to pay my dues in some soul-crushing career in my 20s. But I am not mentally healthy or stable enough to stick it out in Big Law, MBB, BB IB, or residency. If I can't even handle college, how the hell am I supposed to handle a high-pressure, competitive, cutthroat atmosphere in whatever job or industry that will allow me to pay my dues for an eventual "high-pay, low-effort" job in the future?

Many of my friends are interning in BB IB or MBB this summer. Although most of them are much more mentally healthy and stable than I am, they're still absolutely miserable and depressed because of the intense, competitive nature of those jobs. When Goldman Sachs analysts are saying that their job is worse than foster care ( https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/18/group-of-junior-bankers-at-goldman-sachs-claim-inhumane-work-conditions ), it's time for me to re-evaluate what to do post-grad. For me, I think what will keep me the most sane, mentally healthy, and stable after graduation (keep in mind I am not any of these things right now) is not stepping on the treadmill of a grueling career (even if it'll set me up for success later), but taking a relatively chill job that I'll (at least somewhat) enjoy. Whether that's at a non-profit or maybe working on a farm or something else is up in the air, but what I do know for certain is that taking out $80k in loans will completely eliminate that possibility for me.

I don't know. But I was looking at MBB consulting internships for Summer 2023 a few weeks ago (the deadline to apply is coming up soon). Just hearing about the work they do and the case interview seems soul-sucking. I don't think I'd be able to survive, even for a year, in that sort of environment because I am not healthy at the moment.

I worked for several of the companies in those categories and I can assure that there aren't a lot of mentally stable people there

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d tell your parents that you are going to transfer to a less prestigious school because you don’t want to take out loans. If they don’t get bragging rights anymore, they might change their mind about funding the Ivy.

I agree with this. Do not go $80K into debt for a college you don't even want to be at -- especially one that was so toxic for you that you contemplated suicide! There are other schools out there where you can finish your degree for much less money and hopefully a better fit. Your parents are trash for taking this approach.

-1

OP's parent's aren't trash for taking this approach. They're 100% right that a Columbia degree will open up doors for the rest of OP's life.

OP, take the debt and finish up at Columbia. Get over your fear of "stressful, competitive" jobs (whatever the hell that means) and take that six-figure job offer after graduation so you can pay down your student loans.

Oh, and BTW, going into arts administration or non-profits or environmental education will be a decision you'll regret for the rest of your life. No question there.

A few years out no one cares where you went to college. What matters is who you've gotten to know and what you've actually done. Perhaps having gone to Columbia means knowing some people who could be useful in life, but it's not like at age 30 anyone is still talking about your college. I am married to a guy who didn't even finish the low-ranked college he started at and he's doing great.

YMMV. Some of us continue to benefit from the strong alumni networks, and academic, cultural, social, and career oriented resources offered by our colleges. While this isn’t advocating for staying at a school that’s a bad fit, don’t pretend that “no one cares”. For some of us, especially POC, it may be the difference between getting an interview— or not, or being the first generation in our families to offer broader experiences to our kids, should we choose to do so. I’m glad that your guy is doing great. Not everyone gets to do a JD Vance though. And “who you’ve gotten to know” can be enormously impacted by where you go to college and where you’ve gone to college —especially for those of us whose families don’t have the kinds of connections that lead to UMC careers.

As someone who formerly worked in admissions, I would see this application to a seven sisters' nontraditional student program and toss it immediately. The people they are looking for are not Asians who had mental health issues and struggled despite coming from a UMC background - a teen mom who worked her way through the early childcare years, sure, but not someone who has never managed to overcome any adversity. Her resume and history screams that any acceptance would be wasted on her - why would we let in someone who had pretty much every opportunity (because OP, you do) and squandered it? Finally, the students at the seven sisters are not ALL significantly different than an Ivy, and there are the SLAC types at Ivy League schools as well. When I got into the Ivies, we used seven sisters as safety schools. The people I know who attended Smith, Vassar, Barnard all just didn't get into the Ivies, but they had the same mentality as those of us who did.

This is a long winded way of saying that OP really should accept that for her, work will probably suck no matter what it is. The key is to figure out the job that pays you the most with the least hours and focus on other hobbies and interests to fulfill yourself. And that high-pay, low-effort job only comes after you pay your dues by way of finance, biglaw, residency, etc.

OP here. You're right that an admissions office would probably be wary of my application. I do think that getting to graduate from a Seven Sisters school with little to no debt (since only my income would be considered for financial aid purposes at that point and not my parents') would put me in a much better spot than taking out $80k in loans to go to Columbia. I also don't know how an admissions officer would be able to glean that I left Columbia for mental health reasons (and not, say, my financial reasons) if I don't disclose this on my application.

And I've had your same thoughts about work sucking for me no matter what and having to pay my dues in some soul-crushing career in my 20s. But I am not mentally healthy or stable enough to stick it out in Big Law, MBB, BB IB, or residency. If I can't even handle college, how the hell am I supposed to handle a high-pressure, competitive, cutthroat atmosphere in whatever job or industry that will allow me to pay my dues for an eventual "high-pay, low-effort" job in the future?

Many of my friends are interning in BB IB or MBB this summer. Although most of them are much more mentally healthy and stable than I am, they're still absolutely miserable and depressed because of the intense, competitive nature of those jobs. When Goldman Sachs analysts are saying that their job is worse than foster care ( https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/18/group-of-junior-bankers-at-goldman-sachs-claim-inhumane-work-conditions ), it's time for me to re-evaluate what to do post-grad. For me, I think what will keep me the most sane, mentally healthy, and stable after graduation (keep in mind I am not any of these things right now) is not stepping on the treadmill of a grueling career (even if it'll set me up for success later), but taking a relatively chill job that I'll (at least somewhat) enjoy. Whether that's at a non-profit or maybe working on a farm or something else is up in the air, but what I do know for certain is that taking out $80k in loans will completely eliminate that possibility for me.

I don't know. But I was looking at MBB consulting internships for Summer 2023 a few weeks ago (the deadline to apply is coming up soon). Just hearing about the work they do and the case interview seems soul-sucking. I don't think I'd be able to survive, even for a year, in that sort of environment because I am not healthy at the moment.

I worked for several of the companies in those categories and I can assure that there aren't a lot of mentally stable people there

OP here. That's my point -- these people in high-powered, lucrative, stressful careers are happy and mentally stable before they start, but after their 2/4/6 year stint, they become mentally unstable.

[Anonymous]

You act like the only choices in life career-wise are crazy high stress $$$ finance, big law and medicine careers or low paying non-profit work.
The truth is that there is a whole spectrum. Finance can be a little more chill if you are at a company like PWC rather than Goldman Sachs but you can still make decent money. There are zillions of mid tier companies where work life balance is reasonable but you are not being paid 45-50 k like at a museum. Finish your degree and get a decent job. Or take a year to go into the Peace Corp and then get a decent job. There are students at Columbia who are not interested in working for Goldman Sachs, McKinsey, Amazon and Google. They exist. You need to expand your social circle and get out of your bubble

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’d tell your parents that you are going to transfer to a less prestigious school because you don’t want to take out loans. If they don’t get bragging rights anymore, they might change their mind about funding the Ivy.

I agree with this. Do not go $80K into debt for a college you don't even want to be at -- especially one that was so toxic for you that you contemplated suicide! There are other schools out there where you can finish your degree for much less money and hopefully a better fit. Your parents are trash for taking this approach.

-1

OP's parent's aren't trash for taking this approach. They're 100% right that a Columbia degree will open up doors for the rest of OP's life.

OP, take the debt and finish up at Columbia. Get over your fear of "stressful, competitive" jobs (whatever the hell that means) and take that six-figure job offer after graduation so you can pay down your student loans.

Oh, and BTW, going into arts administration or non-profits or environmental education will be a decision you'll regret for the rest of your life. No question there.

A few years out no one cares where you went to college. What matters is who you've gotten to know and what you've actually done. Perhaps having gone to Columbia means knowing some people who could be useful in life, but it's not like at age 30 anyone is still talking about your college. I am married to a guy who didn't even finish the low-ranked college he started at and he's doing great.

YMMV. Some of us continue to benefit from the strong alumni networks, and academic, cultural, social, and career oriented resources offered by our colleges. While this isn’t advocating for staying at a school that’s a bad fit, don’t pretend that “no one cares”. For some of us, especially POC, it may be the difference between getting an interview— or not, or being the first generation in our families to offer broader experiences to our kids, should we choose to do so. I’m glad that your guy is doing great. Not everyone gets to do a JD Vance though. And “who you’ve gotten to know” can be enormously impacted by where you go to college and where you’ve gone to college —especially for those of us whose families don’t have the kinds of connections that lead to UMC careers.

As someone who formerly worked in admissions, I would see this application to a seven sisters' nontraditional student program and toss it immediately. The people they are looking for are not Asians who had mental health issues and struggled despite coming from a UMC background - a teen mom who worked her way through the early childcare years, sure, but not someone who has never managed to overcome any adversity. Her resume and history screams that any acceptance would be wasted on her - why would we let in someone who had pretty much every opportunity (because OP, you do) and squandered it? Finally, the students at the seven sisters are not ALL significantly different than an Ivy, and there are the SLAC types at Ivy League schools as well. When I got into the Ivies, we used seven sisters as safety schools. The people I know who attended Smith, Vassar, Barnard all just didn't get into the Ivies, but they had the same mentality as those of us who did.

This is a long winded way of saying that OP really should accept that for her, work will probably suck no matter what it is. The key is to figure out the job that pays you the most with the least hours and focus on other hobbies and interests to fulfill yourself. And that high-pay, low-effort job only comes after you pay your dues by way of finance, biglaw, residency, etc.

OP here. You're right that an admissions office would probably be wary of my application. I do think that getting to graduate from a Seven Sisters school with little to no debt (since only my income would be considered for financial aid purposes at that point and not my parents') would put me in a much better spot than taking out $80k in loans to go to Columbia. I also don't know how an admissions officer would be able to glean that I left Columbia for mental health reasons (and not, say, my financial reasons) if I don't disclose this on my application.

And I've had your same thoughts about work sucking for me no matter what and having to pay my dues in some soul-crushing career in my 20s. But I am not mentally healthy or stable enough to stick it out in Big Law, MBB, BB IB, or residency. If I can't even handle college, how the hell am I supposed to handle a high-pressure, competitive, cutthroat atmosphere in whatever job or industry that will allow me to pay my dues for an eventual "high-pay, low-effort" job in the future?

Many of my friends are interning in BB IB or MBB this summer. Although most of them are much more mentally healthy and stable than I am, they're still absolutely miserable and depressed because of the intense, competitive nature of those jobs. When Goldman Sachs analysts are saying that their job is worse than foster care ( https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/18/group-of-junior-bankers-at-goldman-sachs-claim-inhumane-work-conditions ), it's time for me to re-evaluate what to do post-grad. For me, I think what will keep me the most sane, mentally healthy, and stable after graduation (keep in mind I am not any of these things right now) is not stepping on the treadmill of a grueling career (even if it'll set me up for success later), but taking a relatively chill job that I'll (at least somewhat) enjoy. Whether that's at a non-profit or maybe working on a farm or something else is up in the air, but what I do know for certain is that taking out $80k in loans will completely eliminate that possibility for me.

I don't know. But I was looking at MBB consulting internships for Summer 2023 a few weeks ago (the deadline to apply is coming up soon). Just hearing about the work they do and the case interview seems soul-sucking. I don't think I'd be able to survive, even for a year, in that sort of environment because I am not healthy at the moment.

I worked for several of the companies in those categories and I can assure that there aren't a lot of mentally stable people there

OP here. That's my point -- these people in high-powered, lucrative, stressful careers are happy and mentally stable before they start, but after their 2/4/6 year stint, they become mentally unstable.

LOL, they were still plenty mentally unstable pre-McKinsey et al, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You act like the only choices in life career-wise are crazy high stress $$$ finance, big law and medicine careers or low paying non-profit work.
The truth is that there is a whole spectrum. Finance can be a little more chill if you are at a company like PWC rather than Goldman Sachs but you can still make decent money. There are zillions of mid tier companies where work life balance is reasonable but you are not being paid 45-50 k like at a museum. Finish your degree and get a decent job. Or take a year to go into the Peace Corp and then get a decent job. There are students at Columbia who are not interested in working for Goldman Sachs, McKinsey, Amazon and Google. They exist. You need to expand your social circle and get out of your bubble

OP here. If I stay at Columbia, I'll have to take out $80k in loans. I can't go into the Peace Corps or do something similar post-grad because I'll have to start paying my loans off immediately.

Paying off $80k in loans pretty much dictates that I'll have to take a super intense, high-paying job after graduation if I want to chip away at the principle. Which I am NOT mentally healthy enough to do.