$80k In Debt Worth It for Ivy Undergrad?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:80k is definitely enough, particularly if you will make 100k+ after graduation.

I really think you can stick it through and graduate. If you drop out, chances of you going back are slim. I feel like at every college there's a spot for you. You need to research jobs more and figure out what you're good at. Don't go into law school if you don't like the law- it will be very boring. I actually love the law, love my niche area and enjoy it. So it makes the grunt work (the hard part is reading and analyzing tens of thousands of pages) enjoyable.

What did you actually like doing in school? History? Research? English? Math? What about data analytics?

OP here. Again, I have no desire to go into the kind of high-pressure, competitive jobs that pay $100k to a recent college grad.

I'm interested in publishing, arts administration, non-profit work, and environmental education. Not exactly fields that Columbia undergrads are known to go into (seriously, it seems like everyone around me is gunning for FAANG, BB IB, MBB, or law/med school).

Wishing you well Op. just be aware that the fields you mentioned, especially the first two, are very hard to get into and jobs often go to rich, well- connected kids through no merit of their own. You sound like an idealist and I can see why Columbia is a poor fit.

OP sounds like an idiot.

OP, listen to me. Careers like publishing, arts administration, NPO work, and "environmental education" (whatever the hell that is) are for rich kids whose parents can bankroll their living expenses after graduation and pay for a downpayment on their first house. That's obviously not you. Suck it up and stay at Columbia, no matter how bad it is for your "mental health." Then get out and CRUSH IT in finance/consulting/tech so you can build the generational wealth for your kids that you parents so clearly failed to provide.

+1

I know, I got to this and thought to myself “oh dear.” OP has no clue how all this works. Publishing, arts admin, NPO, etc. are competitive even for Columbia grads with good grades and internships. Too much demand to meet the supply of jobs, which is why they can get away with paying people peanuts.

OP here. Valid, but I don't know any Columbia grads going into publishing or arts administration -- around me, it seems like it's Big Law/MBB/BB IB/FAANG/ med school all the way.

Do you hang with the rich kids? Bc they’re the only ones who can afford to stay in NYC and make ~ 45k a year.

My social circle is mainly UMC Asian-Americans (some of them are on the high end of UMC). I have one friend who is a trust-fund kid, but she's still gunning for finance (exactly why is beyond me....).

There's also no rule saying that I have to stay in NYC. I would actually prefer not to because it's way too expensive for me.

[Anonymous]

Do you think publishing and arts admin are not competitive and cutthroat? Lol. Museums are the worst for mostly hiring people based on prestige of diploma and social connections. They can afford to be choosy.

Not sure about NPO but there are jerks everywhere. Once I left publishing (over lack of money), I went into teaching (which, believe it or not paid a lot more) and people were petty and territorial there too. Something about the lack of money brings it out in people, I think.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’d tell your parents that you are going to transfer to a less prestigious school because you don’t want to take out loans. If they don’t get bragging rights anymore, they might change their mind about funding the Ivy.

I agree with this. Do not go $80K into debt for a college you don't even want to be at -- especially one that was so toxic for you that you contemplated suicide! There are other schools out there where you can finish your degree for much less money and hopefully a better fit. Your parents are trash for taking this approach.

-1

OP's parent's aren't trash for taking this approach. They're 100% right that a Columbia degree will open up doors for the rest of OP's life.

OP, take the debt and finish up at Columbia. Get over your fear of "stressful, competitive" jobs (whatever the hell that means) and take that six-figure job offer after graduation so you can pay down your student loans.

Oh, and BTW, going into arts administration or non-profits or environmental education will be a decision you'll regret for the rest of your life. No question there.

A few years out no one cares where you went to college. What matters is who you've gotten to know and what you've actually done. Perhaps having gone to Columbia means knowing some people who could be useful in life, but it's not like at age 30 anyone is still talking about your college. I am married to a guy who didn't even finish the low-ranked college he started at and he's doing great.

YMMV. Some of us continue to benefit from the strong alumni networks, and academic, cultural, social, and career oriented resources offered by our colleges. While this isn’t advocating for staying at a school that’s a bad fit, don’t pretend that “no one cares”. For some of us, especially POC, it may be the difference between getting an interview— or not, or being the first generation in our families to offer broader experiences to our kids, should we choose to do so. I’m glad that your guy is doing great. Not everyone gets to do a JD Vance though. And “who you’ve gotten to know” can be enormously impacted by where you go to college and where you’ve gone to college —especially for those of us whose families don’t have the kinds of connections that lead to UMC careers.

As someone who formerly worked in admissions, I would see this application to a seven sisters' nontraditional student program and toss it immediately. The people they are looking for are not Asians who had mental health issues and struggled despite coming from a UMC background - a teen mom who worked her way through the early childcare years, sure, but not someone who has never managed to overcome any adversity. Her resume and history screams that any acceptance would be wasted on her - why would we let in someone who had pretty much every opportunity (because OP, you do) and squandered it? Finally, the students at the seven sisters are not ALL significantly different than an Ivy, and there are the SLAC types at Ivy League schools as well. When I got into the Ivies, we used seven sisters as safety schools. The people I know who attended Smith, Vassar, Barnard all just didn't get into the Ivies, but they had the same mentality as those of us who did.

This is a long winded way of saying that OP really should accept that for her, work will probably suck no matter what it is. The key is to figure out the job that pays you the most with the least hours and focus on other hobbies and interests to fulfill yourself. And that high-pay, low-effort job only comes after you pay your dues by way of finance, biglaw, residency, etc.

Bolded is absolutely true based on the Seven Sisters alumnae I know personally and professionally. Many of them chose those school over Ivies for the single-sex aspect or for scholarship reasons, but they were 100% gunning for Ivy League schools and the like.

OP here. I think that was true maybe 20 or 30 years ago, but I feel like the Barnard women I know are a lot more chill than the Columbia kids.

[Anonymous]

I left home when I was 18. I don't have an ivy degree. My parents didn't pay rent. Become a live-in nanny if you have to. Get away from your parents and do your own thing. You sound whiny and will likely depend on them until after college because you can't get out of this mindset.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you think publishing and arts admin are not competitive and cutthroat? Lol. Museums are the worst for mostly hiring people based on prestige of diploma and social connections. They can afford to be choosy.

Not sure about NPO but there are jerks everywhere. Once I left publishing (over lack of money), I went into teaching (which, believe it or not paid a lot more) and people were petty and territorial there too. Something about the lack of money brings it out in people, I think.

OP here. I think the reason why I assumed that publishing, arts administration, and NPO work are not competitive and cutthroat is because the most cutthroat people I know are going into high-flying corporate careers. The (few) people I know who are going into publishing, arts admin, and NPO work are mostly chill, laid-back people at Barnard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I left home when I was 18. I don't have an ivy degree. My parents didn't pay rent. Become a live-in nanny if you have to. Get away from your parents and do your own thing. You sound whiny and will likely depend on them until after college because you can't get out of this mindset.

OP here. You're right, minus the depend-on-my-parents after college part because my parents can't afford that.

I've looked into being a live-in nanny before, but ended up choosing to WWOOF instead. Do you have any suggestions for websites to sign up to be a live-in nanny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think publishing and arts admin are not competitive and cutthroat? Lol. Museums are the worst for mostly hiring people based on prestige of diploma and social connections. They can afford to be choosy.

Not sure about NPO but there are jerks everywhere. Once I left publishing (over lack of money), I went into teaching (which, believe it or not paid a lot more) and people were petty and territorial there too. Something about the lack of money brings it out in people, I think.

OP here. I think the reason why I assumed that publishing, arts administration, and NPO work are not competitive and cutthroat is because the most cutthroat people I know are going into high-flying corporate careers. The (few) people I know who are going into publishing, arts admin, and NPO work are mostly chill, laid-back people at Barnard.

They are chill and laid-back because they are being subsidized by rich parents (or at least know they have rich parents as a fall-back) and therefore that takes the pressure off trying to get a career going in those fields.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I had the same thing happen to me (being first gen Asian, losing financial aid, mental health problems). Here is my suggestion: get through and get as independent as possible. Time I’m your twenties feels a lot slower than your thirties. Graduate, get a Roomate, be cheap, and you literally will have complete independence from your parents by 24-25. And a college Dre free, and likely most of your loans paid off, and you’ll still be able to go into publishing or whatever. Don’t let your mental health issues derail you and get your confidence back. Good luck!

OP here. PP, do you mind emailing me at [e-mail] ?

No worries if not -- just wanted to ask more specific questions.

[Anonymous]

You seem to want to go to a college OP where you fit in, love the people and the name on your degree shouts out your ideals to strangers. Perhaps view college as something to get through as opposed to loving. Isn't that truly what a degree is for now anyway? A means to opening doors.

Plus maturing into an adult means not just opposing something because that is the option your parents want.

And I don't fault you for not wanting student loan debt, but I think waiting at least 3 years to go back as you have suggested is naive and unrealistic. Something will derail your plans in the next 3 years. It almost feels as if you hope a good excuse will come up so you don't have to finish.

Just my read on your posts.

Best of luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think publishing and arts admin are not competitive and cutthroat? Lol. Museums are the worst for mostly hiring people based on prestige of diploma and social connections. They can afford to be choosy.

Not sure about NPO but there are jerks everywhere. Once I left publishing (over lack of money), I went into teaching (which, believe it or not paid a lot more) and people were petty and territorial there too. Something about the lack of money brings it out in people, I think.

OP here. I think the reason why I assumed that publishing, arts administration, and NPO work are not competitive and cutthroat is because the most cutthroat people I know are going into high-flying corporate careers. The (few) people I know who are going into publishing, arts admin, and NPO work are mostly chill, laid-back people at Barnard.

They are chill and laid-back because they are being subsidized by rich parents (or at least know they have rich parents as a fall-back) and therefore that takes the pressure off trying to get a career going in those fields.

You're not wrong. But I do know a couple Barnard students who are not from wealthy parents (are FGLI, get a lot of financial aid from the school) who are not gunning for lucrative careers post-grad. Their desire to act on behalf of marginalized communities often is greater than their desire to be wealthy.

DCUM is often a bubble of Tracy Flicks who seek to maximize income above all else (which makes sense given the HCOL in DC). But there's more to life than maxing out your 401k and buying a house in Bethesda

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think publishing and arts admin are not competitive and cutthroat? Lol. Museums are the worst for mostly hiring people based on prestige of diploma and social connections. They can afford to be choosy.

Not sure about NPO but there are jerks everywhere. Once I left publishing (over lack of money), I went into teaching (which, believe it or not paid a lot more) and people were petty and territorial there too. Something about the lack of money brings it out in people, I think.

OP here. I think the reason why I assumed that publishing, arts administration, and NPO work are not competitive and cutthroat is because the most cutthroat people I know are going into high-flying corporate careers. The (few) people I know who are going into publishing, arts admin, and NPO work are mostly chill, laid-back people at Barnard.

They are chill and laid-back because they are being subsidized by rich parents (or at least know they have rich parents as a fall-back) and therefore that takes the pressure off trying to get a career going in those fields.

You're not wrong. But I do know a couple Barnard students who are not from wealthy parents (are FGLI, get a lot of financial aid from the school) who are not gunning for lucrative careers post-grad. Their desire to act on behalf of marginalized communities often is greater than their desire to be wealthy.

DCUM is often a bubble of Tracy Flicks who seek to maximize income above all else (which makes sense given the HCOL in DC). But there's more to life than maxing out your 401k and buying a house in Bethesda

You're a spoiled brat and I hope you drop out of Columbia so someone more deserving takes your place

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You seem to want to go to a college OP where you fit in, love the people and the name on your degree shouts out your ideals to strangers. Perhaps view college as something to get through as opposed to loving. Isn't that truly what a degree is for now anyway? A means to opening doors.

Plus maturing into an adult means not just opposing something because that is the option your parents want.

And I don't fault you for not wanting student loan debt, but I think waiting at least 3 years to go back as you have suggested is naive and unrealistic. Something will derail your plans in the next 3 years. It almost feels as if you hope a good excuse will come up so you don't have to finish.

Just my read on your posts.

Best of luck.

OP here. This seems kinda dystopian and pre-emptively awful. Is there any reason why you say this? It's not like I'm gonna have a kid or get married in the next 3 years...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I left home when I was 18. I don't have an ivy degree. My parents didn't pay rent. Become a live-in nanny if you have to. Get away from your parents and do your own thing. You sound whiny and will likely depend on them until after college because you can't get out of this mindset.

OP here. You're right, minus the depend-on-my-parents after college part because my parents can't afford that.

I've looked into being a live-in nanny before, but ended up choosing to WWOOF instead. Do you have any suggestions for websites to sign up to be a live-in nanny.

I said depend on them while you're in college, not after. I found my job on sitter city. You can post of DCUM if you transfer to a college in DC. They have a section for parents looking for nannies. My job was odd hours for a family that worked an odd schedule. They were secret service guards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I left home when I was 18. I don't have an ivy degree. My parents didn't pay rent. Become a live-in nanny if you have to. Get away from your parents and do your own thing. You sound whiny and will likely depend on them until after college because you can't get out of this mindset.

OP here. You're right, minus the depend-on-my-parents after college part because my parents can't afford that.

I've looked into being a live-in nanny before, but ended up choosing to WWOOF instead. Do you have any suggestions for websites to sign up to be a live-in nanny.

I said depend on them while you're in college, not after. I found my job on sitter city. You can post of DCUM if you transfer to a college in DC. They have a section for parents looking for nannies. My job was odd hours for a family that worked an odd schedule. They were secret service guards.

TY for the suggestion

[Anonymous]

OP here. I think about this thread a lot:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/584588.page

and specifically this comment:

"Hmm, I regret pushing myself so hard. I pushed very hard through high school, went to a highly selective college, graduated with honors but hugely burnt out, and spent the next 5 years trying to find myself again. I had no idea why I was there or what I wanted to learn or do. If you arrive at the prestigious school the wrong way -- just because you did everything your parents asked -- you won't know what to make of the opportunities there."

This 100% applies to me. I don't know what to make of the opportunities I have right now, not in the least because of my $80k debt load, and also because my parents have and are beating me down to take a high-paying corporate job instead of pursuing my genuine interests.

This comment from that thread also resonates with me:

But those firms (law, finance, et cetera) that only recruit from Ivy Leagues *are* the rat race. If OP's daughter is exhausted by the rat race as a teenager, what makes you think she'll be happy in that world?

If the point in running the rat race as a teen is to gain entry to an adult rat race where the pressure is even higher and more cutthroat, then it doesn't seem worth it. I suspect that is OP's daughter's point. Her question isn't necessarily, "What is the point?" Her question is actually, "When does it end? When does it get better?"