Banneker versus School Without Walls

[Anonymous]

DH is not an “extreme outlier”. He is a typical very successful black adult from difficult early circumstances. Many students at HBCUs fit his profile. Just because you are not aware of them means nothing to me. Just opening your shallow eyes to things you clearly know little about. White/Asian people put so much focus on the SAT. It really is useless, but continue to do you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. My DH does horribly on standardized tests. 900 on the SAT, yet graduated from an excellent private high school with a 3.9 GPA. He was offered a full ride to college based on merit. Majored in chemistry. Graduated at the top of his class and was offered a full ride to med school. The SAT says NOTHING about future college performance or future success.

What medical school offers full rides? I've literally never heard of this and I work in the field. Are you talking about financial aid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH is not an “extreme outlier”. He is a typical very successful black adult from difficult early circumstances. Many students at HBCUs fit his profile. Just because you are not aware of them means nothing to me. Just opening your shallow eyes to things you clearly know little about. White/Asian people put so much focus on the SAT. It really is useless, but continue to do you.

It's good that he did well in HS and the GPA is indicative of success in college. But a terrible SAT score is not something to wave away or be proud of. Something was missed in his education. Maybe he knows what it is, since you don't seem to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. My DH does horribly on standardized tests. 900 on the SAT, yet graduated from an excellent private high school with a 3.9 GPA. He was offered a full ride to college based on merit. Majored in chemistry. Graduated at the top of his class and was offered a full ride to med school. The SAT says NOTHING about future college performance or future success.

What medical school offers full rides? I've literally never heard of this and I work in the field. Are you talking about financial aid?

NP. My (white) SIL went to med school on a full ride.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. My DH does horribly on standardized tests. 900 on the SAT, yet graduated from an excellent private high school with a 3.9 GPA. He was offered a full ride to college based on merit. Majored in chemistry. Graduated at the top of his class and was offered a full ride to med school. The SAT says NOTHING about future college performance or future success.

What medical school offers full rides? I've literally never heard of this and I work in the field. Are you talking about financial aid?

+1. He also had to take the MCAT for medical school which is also a standardized test. What was his score on that?

I find it hard to believe that he got full scholarship to college and medical school with low SAT and MCAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. My DH does horribly on standardized tests. 900 on the SAT, yet graduated from an excellent private high school with a 3.9 GPA. He was offered a full ride to college based on merit. Majored in chemistry. Graduated at the top of his class and was offered a full ride to med school. The SAT says NOTHING about future college performance or future success.

Your DH is an extreme outlier.

FYI

The odd teenager is always going to freeze up on standardized tests, even if they could answer most of the questions correctly in a low-pressure setting. Colleges know this, helping explain why the Test Optional movement is steadily gaining ground nationally.

I'm just not buying that the SAT says "nothing" about future college performance, because the test just isn't difficult for a HS student who's well read and did OK in MS or HS algebra and geometry. SATs are pitched at an 8th or 9th grade level for strong students who aren't geniuses or prodigies.

If high SAT scores were out of reach for cohorts of the best-prepped low-SES minority students, there's no way that average scores at the 9 NYC magnet test-in high schools, where at-risk/FARMs students are strongly represented, would be 1200+. What's obviously happening at Banneker, and Eastern, Dunbar, Ballou, Anacostia, is that the the most able low SES students in the system seldom get the essential support/prep they need to score high.

The fact that the depressing status quo works for our politicians, ed leaders, and the bleeding hearts and apologists for DCPS' failings on this thread is shameful.

Agree 100% with this. Top privates and magnet schools have many minority students from poor backgrounds who do exceedingly well on the SAT. Kids are not doing well on the SAT from Banneker because the education is a joke. The SAT isn't rocket science. It's basic reading and math at the geometry level or below.
Sidwell, GDS, STA etc put many poor minority kids (and the rest of the class) through their paces for 4 years and these kids all end up with SATs scores above 1450. They don't take million dollar review courses. They learn over time, n school thanks to a genuinely rigorous curriculum. Not the DCPS bullsh$%T. I've had
kids in both environments (DCPS and top DC private) and the education is world's apart.

[Anonymous]

+1000 PP. The creative excuses for Banneker's dismal SATs scores on this thread are off point. I graduated from a NYC magnet where it was normal for students from low-income families to score high on SATs. Some of didn't crack 1300 or 1400 on SATs on the first try, so we took the test again, even a third time if necessary. We knew that 700s on SATs meant lots of fi aid at elite colleges, so we fought to clear the bar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH is not an “extreme outlier”. He is a typical very successful black adult from difficult early circumstances. Many students at HBCUs fit his profile. Just because you are not aware of them means nothing to me. Just opening your shallow eyes to things you clearly know little about. White/Asian people put so much focus on the SAT. It really is useless, but continue to do you.

It's good that he did well in HS and the GPA is indicative of success in college. But a terrible SAT score is not something to wave away or be proud of. Something was missed in his education. Maybe he knows what it is, since you don't seem to know.

What is this trash. He went to med school, he passed the boards, he is a doctor, he shouldn't spend even one moment feeling ashamed of his SAT score, which was clearly NOT and indicator of anything.

Is it useful to have a high SAT score? Yes. Is it teachable? Yes! Are there high IQ people who will effortlessly do well and then totally rebel against systems? Yes, many, bc those two things go together. Will there be people who end up being extremely successful with low SAT scores? Yes, many!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH is not an “extreme outlier”. He is a typical very successful black adult from difficult early circumstances. Many students at HBCUs fit his profile. Just because you are not aware of them means nothing to me. Just opening your shallow eyes to things you clearly know little about. White/Asian people put so much focus on the SAT. It really is useless, but continue to do you.

It's good that he did well in HS and the GPA is indicative of success in college. But a terrible SAT score is not something to wave away or be proud of. Something was missed in his education. Maybe he knows what it is, since you don't seem to know.

What is this trash. He went to med school, he passed the boards, he is a doctor, he shouldn't spend even one moment feeling ashamed of his SAT score, which was clearly NOT and indicator of anything.

Is it useful to have a high SAT score? Yes. Is it teachable? Yes! Are there high IQ people who will effortlessly do well and then totally rebel against systems? Yes, many, bc those two things go together. Will there be people who end up being extremely successful with low SAT scores? Yes, many!

Oh.

[Anonymous]

No great challenge to rebel against any particular system when coming from a privileged background.

In this country, the reality is that the sky's practically the limit in college admissions for low SES minority students with SAT scores of 1400-1600, and scores of 4 or 5 on multiple AP exams. With such scores, a poor minority kid will be recruited by multiple elite colleges offering great financial aid, even if their grades, recommendations and extra-curriculars don't knock it out of the park.

I went to MIT on the strength of my standardized test scores, although my family had qualified for free school meals since I was a little kid. MIT covered almost all of my college costs. Unlike Bannker students, I was very fortunate to be taught, and raised, by adults determined not only to help me get a great education, but to help me score high on the PSAT, SAT and AP tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No great challenge to rebel against any particular system when coming from a privileged background.

In this country, the reality is that the sky's practically the limit in college admissions for low SES minority students with SAT scores of 1400-1600, and scores of 4 or 5 on multiple AP exams. With such scores, a poor minority kid will be recruited by multiple elite colleges offering great financial aid, even if their grades, recommendations and extra-curriculars don't knock it out of the park.

I went to MIT on the strength of my standardized test scores, although my family had qualified for free school meals since I was a little kid. MIT covered almost all of my college costs. Unlike Bannker students, I was very fortunate to be taught, and raised, by adults determined not only to help me get a great education, but to help me score high on the PSAT, SAT and AP tests.

“Unlike Banneker students…” give me a break it’s clear you don’t know anything about the school or its teachers.

[Anonymous]

I do, actually. I've volunteered at Banneker over a four-year period, at the invitation of science teachers I met through a STEM mentoring organization I'm involved with.

Sorry, but the SAT scores and AP scores coming out of Banneker speak for themselves.

If the average MATH SAT score really is in the high 400s, at least half of the students don't have a firm grasp of algebra or geometry, let alone trig and calc. They also lack the requisite vocabulary and analytical skills to handle elite college-level humanities studies. Wish things were different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. My DH does horribly on standardized tests. 900 on the SAT, yet graduated from an excellent private high school with a 3.9 GPA. He was offered a full ride to college based on merit. Majored in chemistry. Graduated at the top of his class and was offered a full ride to med school. The SAT says NOTHING about future college performance or future success.

Your DH is an extreme outlier.

FYI

The odd teenager is always going to freeze up on standardized tests, even if they could answer most of the questions correctly in a low-pressure setting. Colleges know this, helping explain why the Test Optional movement is steadily gaining ground nationally.

I'm just not buying that the SAT says "nothing" about future college performance, because the test just isn't difficult for a HS student who's well read and did OK in MS or HS algebra and geometry. SATs are pitched at an 8th or 9th grade level for strong students who aren't geniuses or prodigies.

If high SAT scores were out of reach for cohorts of the best-prepped low-SES minority students, there's no way that average scores at the 9 NYC magnet test-in high schools, where at-risk/FARMs students are strongly represented, would be 1200+. What's obviously happening at Banneker, and Eastern, Dunbar, Ballou, Anacostia, is that the the most able low SES students in the system seldom get the essential support/prep they need to score high.

The fact that the depressing status quo works for our politicians, ed leaders, and the bleeding hearts and apologists for DCPS' failings on this thread is shameful.

Agree 100% with this. Top privates and magnet schools have many minority students from poor backgrounds who do exceedingly well on the SAT. Kids are not doing well on the SAT from Banneker because the education is a joke. The SAT isn't rocket science. It's basic reading and math at the geometry level or below.
Sidwell, GDS, STA etc put many poor minority kids (and the rest of the class) through their paces for 4 years and these kids all end up with SATs scores above 1450. They don't take million dollar review courses. They learn over time, n school thanks to a genuinely rigorous curriculum. Not the DCPS bullsh$%T. I've had
kids in both environments (DCPS and top DC private) and the education is world's apart.

Private schools cherry pick their minorities. Those kids would have had high SAT scores regardless of where they went to school. To me Banneker's scores reflect the student population which is good for DCPS, but technically average. Still we are not comparing to a private school, which would bring up a lot of other issues, but to public schools in DC. In that context, Banneker looks like a pretty good option. As to those who are shocked that someone with an average SAT score could go to medical school, that is completely ridiculous. Maybe that child bloomed in college, or the test scores we're not indicative of his potential. Apparently grades are a much better metric to predict later success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. My DH does horribly on standardized tests. 900 on the SAT, yet graduated from an excellent private high school with a 3.9 GPA. He was offered a full ride to college based on merit. Majored in chemistry. Graduated at the top of his class and was offered a full ride to med school. The SAT says NOTHING about future college performance or future success.

Your DH is an extreme outlier.

FYI

The odd teenager is always going to freeze up on standardized tests, even if they could answer most of the questions correctly in a low-pressure setting. Colleges know this, helping explain why the Test Optional movement is steadily gaining ground nationally.

I'm just not buying that the SAT says "nothing" about future college performance, because the test just isn't difficult for a HS student who's well read and did OK in MS or HS algebra and geometry. SATs are pitched at an 8th or 9th grade level for strong students who aren't geniuses or prodigies.

If high SAT scores were out of reach for cohorts of the best-prepped low-SES minority students, there's no way that average scores at the 9 NYC magnet test-in high schools, where at-risk/FARMs students are strongly represented, would be 1200+. What's obviously happening at Banneker, and Eastern, Dunbar, Ballou, Anacostia, is that the the most able low SES students in the system seldom get the essential support/prep they need to score high.

The fact that the depressing status quo works for our politicians, ed leaders, and the bleeding hearts and apologists for DCPS' failings on this thread is shameful.

Agree 100% with this. Top privates and magnet schools have many minority students from poor backgrounds who do exceedingly well on the SAT. Kids are not doing well on the SAT from Banneker because the education is a joke. The SAT isn't rocket science. It's basic reading and math at the geometry level or below.
Sidwell, GDS, STA etc put many poor minority kids (and the rest of the class) through their paces for 4 years and these kids all end up with SATs scores above 1450. They don't take million dollar review courses. They learn over time, n school thanks to a genuinely rigorous curriculum. Not the DCPS bullsh$%T. I've had
kids in both environments (DCPS and top DC private) and the education is world's apart.

Private schools cherry pick their minorities. Those kids would have had high SAT scores regardless of where they went to school. To me Banneker's scores reflect the student population which is good for DCPS, but technically average. Still we are not comparing to a private school, which would bring up a lot of other issues, but to public schools in DC. In that context, Banneker looks like a pretty good option. As to those who are shocked that someone with an average SAT score could go to medical school, that is completely ridiculous. Maybe that child bloomed in college, or the test scores we're not indicative of his potential. Apparently grades are a much better metric to predict later success.

Good for DCPS isn't good or acceptable. What's the point of running an test-in urban HS when the academic results have always been deeply average, and presumably always will be? What would be wrong with Banneker stakeholders upping their game to get the kind of results one expects to see from elite magnet programs serving sizeable cohorts of low SES minority kids? The results are out of reach because most Banneker students aren't capable of scoring 600s and 700s on SATs and 4s and 5s on AP exams? I don't believe this, not if they're pushed academically in elementary and middle school, not if admins and teachers prod kids to aim and score high, and spell out a path to get there. I've tutored top Banneker kids who had no clue that elite colleges like to see 700s on SATs and 4s and 5s on AP tests. Apparently, nobody else had told them this.

The underlying problem is two-fold. The first problem is that iron-clad social promotion drags down standards for advanced learners across the board in DCPS, particularly in middle schools in Wards 5, 7 and 8. The second program is that DCPS continues to reject a legal mandate for GT education with attendant funding. MD and VA, and most other states, passed laws on GT education in the 80s or 90s. In a nutshell, advanced DCPS students aren't legally entitled to advanced instruction before HS. Where families are UMC, parents often step in to ensure that advanced learners are challenge academically, by supplementing (often for thousands of dollars a year) and pushing teachers to add rigor for their child. Low SES families are understandably disadvantaged in adding rigor, so little is generally added for their children before HS, obviously too little, too late. Flash forward to junior or senior year at Banneker, and most students' SATs scores are a good 100-200 points lower than need be for both math and reading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do, actually. I've volunteered at Banneker over a four-year period, at the invitation of science teachers I met through a STEM mentoring organization I'm involved with.

Sorry, but the SAT scores and AP scores coming out of Banneker speak for themselves.

If the average MATH SAT score really is in the high 400s, at least half of the students don't have a firm grasp of algebra or geometry, let alone trig and calc. They also lack the requisite vocabulary and analytical skills to handle elite college-level humanities studies. Wish things were different.

You volunteer at the school and turn around and trash the teaching?!