Banneker versus School Without Walls

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. My DH does horribly on standardized tests. 900 on the SAT, yet graduated from an excellent private high school with a 3.9 GPA. He was offered a full ride to college based on merit. Majored in chemistry. Graduated at the top of his class and was offered a full ride to med school. The SAT says NOTHING about future college performance or future success.

Your DH is an extreme outlier.

FYI

The odd teenager is always going to freeze up on standardized tests, even if they could answer most of the questions correctly in a low-pressure setting. Colleges know this, helping explain why the Test Optional movement is steadily gaining ground nationally.

I'm just not buying that the SAT says "nothing" about future college performance, because the test just isn't difficult for a HS student who's well read and did OK in MS or HS algebra and geometry. SATs are pitched at an 8th or 9th grade level for strong students who aren't geniuses or prodigies.

If high SAT scores were out of reach for cohorts of the best-prepped low-SES minority students, there's no way that average scores at the 9 NYC magnet test-in high schools, where at-risk/FARMs students are strongly represented, would be 1200+. What's obviously happening at Banneker, and Eastern, Dunbar, Ballou, Anacostia, is that the the most able low SES students in the system seldom get the essential support/prep they need to score high.

The fact that the depressing status quo works for our politicians, ed leaders, and the bleeding hearts and apologists for DCPS' failings on this thread is shameful.

Agree 100% with this. Top privates and magnet schools have many minority students from poor backgrounds who do exceedingly well on the SAT. Kids are not doing well on the SAT from Banneker because the education is a joke. The SAT isn't rocket science. It's basic reading and math at the geometry level or below.
Sidwell, GDS, STA etc put many poor minority kids (and the rest of the class) through their paces for 4 years and these kids all end up with SATs scores above 1450. They don't take million dollar review courses. They learn over time, n school thanks to a genuinely rigorous curriculum. Not the DCPS bullsh$%T. I've had
kids in both environments (DCPS and top DC private) and the education is world's apart.

Private schools cherry pick their minorities. Those kids would have had high SAT scores regardless of where they went to school. To me Banneker's scores reflect the student population which is good for DCPS, but technically average. Still we are not comparing to a private school, which would bring up a lot of other issues, but to public schools in DC. In that context, Banneker looks like a pretty good option. As to those who are shocked that someone with an average SAT score could go to medical school, that is completely ridiculous. Maybe that child bloomed in college, or the test scores we're not indicative of his potential. Apparently grades are a much better metric to predict later success.

So the private schools pick the poor but smart minorities but DCPS gets the poor but dumb ones?

What are you even saying?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. My DH does horribly on standardized tests. 900 on the SAT, yet graduated from an excellent private high school with a 3.9 GPA. He was offered a full ride to college based on merit. Majored in chemistry. Graduated at the top of his class and was offered a full ride to med school. The SAT says NOTHING about future college performance or future success.

Your DH is an extreme outlier.

FYI

The odd teenager is always going to freeze up on standardized tests, even if they could answer most of the questions correctly in a low-pressure setting. Colleges know this, helping explain why the Test Optional movement is steadily gaining ground nationally.

I'm just not buying that the SAT says "nothing" about future college performance, because the test just isn't difficult for a HS student who's well read and did OK in MS or HS algebra and geometry. SATs are pitched at an 8th or 9th grade level for strong students who aren't geniuses or prodigies.

If high SAT scores were out of reach for cohorts of the best-prepped low-SES minority students, there's no way that average scores at the 9 NYC magnet test-in high schools, where at-risk/FARMs students are strongly represented, would be 1200+. What's obviously happening at Banneker, and Eastern, Dunbar, Ballou, Anacostia, is that the the most able low SES students in the system seldom get the essential support/prep they need to score high.

The fact that the depressing status quo works for our politicians, ed leaders, and the bleeding hearts and apologists for DCPS' failings on this thread is shameful.

Agree 100% with this. Top privates and magnet schools have many minority students from poor backgrounds who do exceedingly well on the SAT. Kids are not doing well on the SAT from Banneker because the education is a joke. The SAT isn't rocket science. It's basic reading and math at the geometry level or below.
Sidwell, GDS, STA etc put many poor minority kids (and the rest of the class) through their paces for 4 years and these kids all end up with SATs scores above 1450. They don't take million dollar review courses. They learn over time, n school thanks to a genuinely rigorous curriculum. Not the DCPS bullsh$%T. I've had
kids in both environments (DCPS and top DC private) and the education is world's apart.

Private schools cherry pick their minorities. Those kids would have had high SAT scores regardless of where they went to school. To me Banneker's scores reflect the student population which is good for DCPS, but technically average. Still we are not comparing to a private school, which would bring up a lot of other issues, but to public schools in DC. In that context, Banneker looks like a pretty good option. As to those who are shocked that someone with an average SAT score could go to medical school, that is completely ridiculous. Maybe that child bloomed in college, or the test scores we're not indicative of his potential. Apparently grades are a much better metric to predict later success.

So the private schools pick the poor but smart minorities but DCPS gets the poor but dumb ones?

What are you even saying?

The privates choose who goes there. They will take diversity onto account in admissions, but they will take the highest performing child, so you will have very highly performing minorities along with all the other high performing children. Performance is less the effect of the school itself. I can't comment on teaching at Banneker, but this is what test scores says to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do, actually. I've volunteered at Banneker over a four-year period, at the invitation of science teachers I met through a STEM mentoring organization I'm involved with.

Sorry, but the SAT scores and AP scores coming out of Banneker speak for themselves.

If the average MATH SAT score really is in the high 400s, at least half of the students don't have a firm grasp of algebra or geometry, let alone trig and calc. They also lack the requisite vocabulary and analytical skills to handle elite college-level humanities studies. Wish things were different.

You volunteer at the school and turn around and trash the teaching?!

When you volunteer somewhere, you gain a little insight into how the place works. Over time, this New Yorker got fed up with lack of ambition for Banneker's upper echelon academically on the part of many adults in the building, at least where STEM education goes. The tyranny of low expectations wasn't hard to identify. Very different feel than Stuyvesant, Bronx Science and Hunter College MS/HS, where I've also volunteered. Lots of happy talk and drill at Banneker, but not enough joy of learning, healthy competition within the peer group, serious extra-curriculars, and aiming high to crack competitive colleges. It's more of a culture of "any 4-year program will do." I left unconvinced that admins and teachers do their utmost to impress the critical importance of scoring high on standardized tests on students. The concept clearly isn't integral to the school culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do, actually. I've volunteered at Banneker over a four-year period, at the invitation of science teachers I met through a STEM mentoring organization I'm involved with.

Sorry, but the SAT scores and AP scores coming out of Banneker speak for themselves.

If the average MATH SAT score really is in the high 400s, at least half of the students don't have a firm grasp of algebra or geometry, let alone trig and calc. They also lack the requisite vocabulary and analytical skills to handle elite college-level humanities studies. Wish things were different.

You volunteer at the school and turn around and trash the teaching?!

When you volunteer somewhere, you gain a little insight into how the place works. Over time, this New Yorker got fed up with lack of ambition for Banneker's upper echelon academically on the part of many adults in the building, at least where STEM education goes. The tyranny of low expectations wasn't hard to identify. Very different feel than Stuyvesant, Bronx Science and Hunter College MS/HS, where I've also volunteered. Lots of happy talk and drill at Banneker, but not enough joy of learning, healthy competition within the peer group, serious extra-curriculars, and aiming high to crack competitive colleges. It's more of a culture of "any 4-year program will do." I left unconvinced that admins and teachers do their utmost to impress the critical importance of scoring high on standardized tests on students. The concept clearly isn't integral to the school culture.

As the parent of a current student, I hope they found better volunteers this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do, actually. I've volunteered at Banneker over a four-year period, at the invitation of science teachers I met through a STEM mentoring organization I'm involved with.

Sorry, but the SAT scores and AP scores coming out of Banneker speak for themselves.

If the average MATH SAT score really is in the high 400s, at least half of the students don't have a firm grasp of algebra or geometry, let alone trig and calc. They also lack the requisite vocabulary and analytical skills to handle elite college-level humanities studies. Wish things were different.

You volunteer at the school and turn around and trash the teaching?!

When you volunteer somewhere, you gain a little insight into how the place works. Over time, this New Yorker got fed up with lack of ambition for Banneker's upper echelon academically on the part of many adults in the building, at least where STEM education goes. The tyranny of low expectations wasn't hard to identify. Very different feel than Stuyvesant, Bronx Science and Hunter College MS/HS, where I've also volunteered. Lots of happy talk and drill at Banneker, but not enough joy of learning, healthy competition within the peer group, serious extra-curriculars, and aiming high to crack competitive colleges. It's more of a culture of "any 4-year program will do." I left unconvinced that admins and teachers do their utmost to impress the critical importance of scoring high on standardized tests on students. The concept clearly isn't integral to the school culture.

As the parent of a current student, I hope they found better volunteers this year.

Don’t shoot the messenger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do, actually. I've volunteered at Banneker over a four-year period, at the invitation of science teachers I met through a STEM mentoring organization I'm involved with.

Sorry, but the SAT scores and AP scores coming out of Banneker speak for themselves.

If the average MATH SAT score really is in the high 400s, at least half of the students don't have a firm grasp of algebra or geometry, let alone trig and calc. They also lack the requisite vocabulary and analytical skills to handle elite college-level humanities studies. Wish things were different.

You volunteer at the school and turn around and trash the teaching?!

When you volunteer somewhere, you gain a little insight into how the place works. Over time, this New Yorker got fed up with lack of ambition for Banneker's upper echelon academically on the part of many adults in the building, at least where STEM education goes. The tyranny of low expectations wasn't hard to identify. Very different feel than Stuyvesant, Bronx Science and Hunter College MS/HS, where I've also volunteered. Lots of happy talk and drill at Banneker, but not enough joy of learning, healthy competition within the peer group, serious extra-curriculars, and aiming high to crack competitive colleges. It's more of a culture of "any 4-year program will do." I left unconvinced that admins and teachers do their utmost to impress the critical importance of scoring high on standardized tests on students. The concept clearly isn't integral to the school culture.

As the parent of a current student, I hope they found better volunteers this year.

Right? Don't want anyone to tell the students that a 4 or 5 is the expected grade on an AP exam. Not a 3.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn’t have lasted 4 years as a volunteer. More like 4 hours. The Banneker college counselors sound like they belong in a different century

[Anonymous]

Pretty clearly, New Yorkers should be banned from Banneker as a dangerous influence.

They think that poor minority kids should be given a shot at MIT, even if they haven't been cherry picked by Sidwell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Complete nonsense. Free tutoring on Khan Academy is just fine if your kid is willing to work through the videos diligently.

Students who read a lot from a young age and study the test format generally ace the SAT verbal section, which isn't nearly as long or as difficult as it was pre 2019, when the test format changed yet again.

The math tested doesn't even go as far as trig, let alone calc. Nobody needs an expensive tutor to score high on the SATs.

You clearly don't know what you don't know. You know nothing about SAT prep classes, yet you discount the impact they have on rich kids who make use of them because you have seen that Khan Academy videos exist.

My kid with ADHD and learning issues scored under 1100 the first time he took the SAT (after months of prep with Khan Academy). After two expensive SAT prep classes, he scored > 1400.

You should work to address your ignorance before commenting further.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do, actually. I've volunteered at Banneker over a four-year period, at the invitation of science teachers I met through a STEM mentoring organization I'm involved with.

Sorry, but the SAT scores and AP scores coming out of Banneker speak for themselves.

If the average MATH SAT score really is in the high 400s, at least half of the students don't have a firm grasp of algebra or geometry, let alone trig and calc. They also lack the requisite vocabulary and analytical skills to handle elite college-level humanities studies. Wish things were different.

You volunteer at the school and turn around and trash the teaching?!

When you volunteer somewhere, you gain a little insight into how the place works. Over time, this New Yorker got fed up with lack of ambition for Banneker's upper echelon academically on the part of many adults in the building, at least where STEM education goes. The tyranny of low expectations wasn't hard to identify. Very different feel than Stuyvesant, Bronx Science and Hunter College MS/HS, where I've also volunteered. Lots of happy talk and drill at Banneker, but not enough joy of learning, healthy competition within the peer group, serious extra-curriculars, and aiming high to crack competitive colleges. It's more of a culture of "any 4-year program will do." I left unconvinced that admins and teachers do their utmost to impress the critical importance of scoring high on standardized tests on students. The concept clearly isn't integral to the school culture.

As the parent of a current student, I hope they found better volunteers this year.

Don’t shoot the messenger.

I think it’s terrible that you volunteer and then turn around and bad mouth the students and school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do, actually. I've volunteered at Banneker over a four-year period, at the invitation of science teachers I met through a STEM mentoring organization I'm involved with.

Sorry, but the SAT scores and AP scores coming out of Banneker speak for themselves.

If the average MATH SAT score really is in the high 400s, at least half of the students don't have a firm grasp of algebra or geometry, let alone trig and calc. They also lack the requisite vocabulary and analytical skills to handle elite college-level humanities studies. Wish things were different.

You volunteer at the school and turn around and trash the teaching?!

When you volunteer somewhere, you gain a little insight into how the place works. Over time, this New Yorker got fed up with lack of ambition for Banneker's upper echelon academically on the part of many adults in the building, at least where STEM education goes. The tyranny of low expectations wasn't hard to identify. Very different feel than Stuyvesant, Bronx Science and Hunter College MS/HS, where I've also volunteered. Lots of happy talk and drill at Banneker, but not enough joy of learning, healthy competition within the peer group, serious extra-curriculars, and aiming high to crack competitive colleges. It's more of a culture of "any 4-year program will do." I left unconvinced that admins and teachers do their utmost to impress the critical importance of scoring high on standardized tests on students. The concept clearly isn't integral to the school culture.

As the parent of a current student, I hope they found better volunteers this year.

Don’t shoot the messenger.

I think it’s terrible that you volunteer and then turn around and bad mouth the students and school.

DP. It seems like you're upset that PP is pointing out a real weakness of the school. It seems to me that Banneker should recognize and address this glaring weakness in order to better serve students. How is pointing that out "bad mouthing the students and school"?

My kid's SAT went up 300 points with tutoring. I'm sure that many kids at Banneker could have similar improvements, which would dramatically increase their college choices and merit aid awards. How is that bad?

[Anonymous]

I beg to differ.

What's terrible is that Banneker appears to be America's only elite, test-in magnet high school where average SAT scores are below the national average with no pushback, other than on the part of volunteers from NYC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do, actually. I've volunteered at Banneker over a four-year period, at the invitation of science teachers I met through a STEM mentoring organization I'm involved with.

Sorry, but the SAT scores and AP scores coming out of Banneker speak for themselves.

If the average MATH SAT score really is in the high 400s, at least half of the students don't have a firm grasp of algebra or geometry, let alone trig and calc. They also lack the requisite vocabulary and analytical skills to handle elite college-level humanities studies. Wish things were different.

You volunteer at the school and turn around and trash the teaching?!

When you volunteer somewhere, you gain a little insight into how the place works. Over time, this New Yorker got fed up with lack of ambition for Banneker's upper echelon academically on the part of many adults in the building, at least where STEM education goes. The tyranny of low expectations wasn't hard to identify. Very different feel than Stuyvesant, Bronx Science and Hunter College MS/HS, where I've also volunteered. Lots of happy talk and drill at Banneker, but not enough joy of learning, healthy competition within the peer group, serious extra-curriculars, and aiming high to crack competitive colleges. It's more of a culture of "any 4-year program will do." I left unconvinced that admins and teachers do their utmost to impress the critical importance of scoring high on standardized tests on students. The concept clearly isn't integral to the school culture.

As the parent of a current student, I hope they found better volunteers this year.

Don’t shoot the messenger.

I think it’s terrible that you volunteer and then turn around and bad mouth the students and school.

DP. It seems like you're upset that PP is pointing out a real weakness of the school. It seems to me that Banneker should recognize and address this glaring weakness in order to better serve students. How is pointing that out "bad mouthing the students and school"?

My kid's SAT went up 300 points with tutoring. I'm sure that many kids at Banneker could have similar improvements, which would dramatically increase their college choices and merit aid awards. How is that bad?

Yes, but your kid probably got a decent education along the way, maybe in Upper NW, and failed to score high primarily because s/he an was unfamiliar with the test format. A little SAT prep could fix the problem at hand.

Much deeper-seated problems afoot at Banneker.

[Anonymous]

It merits an article in the Washington Post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do, actually. I've volunteered at Banneker over a four-year period, at the invitation of science teachers I met through a STEM mentoring organization I'm involved with.

Sorry, but the SAT scores and AP scores coming out of Banneker speak for themselves.

If the average MATH SAT score really is in the high 400s, at least half of the students don't have a firm grasp of algebra or geometry, let alone trig and calc. They also lack the requisite vocabulary and analytical skills to handle elite college-level humanities studies. Wish things were different.

You volunteer at the school and turn around and trash the teaching?!

When you volunteer somewhere, you gain a little insight into how the place works. Over time, this New Yorker got fed up with lack of ambition for Banneker's upper echelon academically on the part of many adults in the building, at least where STEM education goes. The tyranny of low expectations wasn't hard to identify. Very different feel than Stuyvesant, Bronx Science and Hunter College MS/HS, where I've also volunteered. Lots of happy talk and drill at Banneker, but not enough joy of learning, healthy competition within the peer group, serious extra-curriculars, and aiming high to crack competitive colleges. It's more of a culture of "any 4-year program will do." I left unconvinced that admins and teachers do their utmost to impress the critical importance of scoring high on standardized tests on students. The concept clearly isn't integral to the school culture.

As the parent of a current student, I hope they found better volunteers this year.

Don’t shoot the messenger.

I think it’s terrible that you volunteer and then turn around and bad mouth the students and school.

DP. It seems like you're upset that PP is pointing out a real weakness of the school. It seems to me that Banneker should recognize and address this glaring weakness in order to better serve students. How is pointing that out "bad mouthing the students and school"?

My kid's SAT went up 300 points with tutoring. I'm sure that many kids at Banneker could have similar improvements, which would dramatically increase their college choices and merit aid awards. How is that bad?

The 80 or students that graduated last year had $50 million in aid, I think they’re doing fine.