DS's professor saying assignment submitted at 11:59pm is late

[Anonymous]

11:59 means 11:59 not 11:58 for good measure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you to everyone who posted helpful responses.

We'll wait until other students hear back from the department.

If DS had submitted at 12:00, I would have told him that from my perspective, late is late.

Students in DS's class were told that the assignment had to be submitted "by 11:59." DS said that there were a few other students in the course group chat who also submitted at 11:59, so definitely a small number of students. Their argument, apparently, is that "by" means "not later than" according to Merriam-Webster.

I'm not a helicopter parent. I've read How to Raise an Adult, with the stories of parents doing too much for their kids in college. DS asked me for advice, which he typically doesn't, and I wasn't sure how to respond. I would never email a professor on his behalf.

DS has definitely learned not to wait until the last minute to submit work and to ask for more time if he needs it, obviously many days before the deadline. This is his first time missing a deadline in college, and he maintains a relatively high GPA.

"Their argument, apparently, is that "by" means "not later than" according to Merriam-Webster." Does 11:59 mean 11:59:00, or does it include 11:59:59? When a deadline is by June 21, does that mean due by 12:00 AM or 11:59 PM? Something I just thought about.

“Not later than” 11:59 means not later than 11:59:00. Should have been in by 11:58. Not seeing their argument.

I can’t believe multiple college students are in this position and are actually trying to argue they are right. Good life lesson.

Common app deadline is listed as 11:59 and is 11:59:59 (nephew submitted his at 11:59:30 or something). No idea if this is common for other deadlines. I've never thought to test it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Work with precise numbers all the time. He made the deadline. The professor is being ridiculous.

He did make a deadline, darling. And set it with a computer system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Work with precise numbers all the time. He made the deadline. The professor is being ridiculous.

He did make a deadline, darling. And set it with a computer system.

Is "darling" necessary? Bit condescending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a chronic illness that requires me to spend 50% of my existence in the bathroom. I understand chronic illnesses can be rough. But let me tell you now, it never made a difference between me submitting something at 11:59 and 11:59:01.

If his illness was the reason for the delay, it still shouldn’t have come down to a game of minutes.
Professors don’t budge on stuff. It’s how they turn teenagers into adults. It’s unfortunate, but he will recover from this grade dip.

Thank you for this.

As I said, DS takes full responsibility for submitting last minute as he failed to ask for more time. He doesn't blame his illness for the delay.

The only reason why he is considering appealing the professor's decision is that if the deadline is 11:59pm, should something that is submitted at 11:59 be late?

Yes the prof should have accepted it. But he might not believe your son. If I were your son I’d write the tech dept that programs the deadline and ask them if it should have been programmed 11:59:59. Ignore the jerks who say you are helicoptering.

Anyone on A DCUM education forum is helicoptering.

Why would anyone wait till 11:59 to submit something? What if your computer crashed, Internet is down, etc.

This. Professor here, teaching with Blackboard for many years. You would be surprised how many students wait until 11:59 to submit. It is a bad habit to form, especially as there could easily be technology issues to interfere with ontime submission. My students have at least a week to complete any assignment. I tell them not to wait until last minute. Grant deadlines, fellowship deadlines are hard. You cannot reach out to fellowship administrators and ask for 5 sec extension bc you missed the deadline. Some students need to learn to break bad habits.

That being said, I am not usually a hard a** about any assignment submitted over night (up until 4,5 am). I do make exception for FINAL, large assignments. Final projects need to be submitted on time so I have time to grade in a reasonable time frame. Students are usually working on finally projects for months. I communicate how important it is to submit certain projects in time. If they have an extenuating circumstance, it is there responsibility to acquire accommodations from student services ( to retain privacy of their issue), or reach out to me beforehand. “I had no internet at 11:59 pm” is not a valid excuse.

That being said, the 11:59 pm deadline and frantic emails about missed deadline by 1 minute got so tiring , I switched all my deadlines to 6 am. Students like to work into the wee hours, and I now have much fewer last minute assignments.

A student missing a deadline on one assignment should NOT be taken up change of command. It’s the professor’s discretion to enforce deadlines.

[Anonymous]

What if, hypothetically, the student was a person of color who was understandably struggling with recent events, and the professor was a white person? Same adherence to rigid deadline?

[Anonymous]

Students should not have waited until the very last minute, but I always set the submission deadline to 12:05 to avoid this very debate. Who on either side needs the hassle? That way there is no question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Work with precise numbers all the time. He made the deadline. The professor is being ridiculous.

He did make a deadline, darling. And set it with a computer system.

Is "darling" necessary? Bit condescending.

So is claiming there should have been a deadline set when there was, indeed, a deadline set.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s unfair because I could see your son being confused and thinking it was OK to turn it in anytime the timestamp will be 1159.

But I have taught in higher ed and complaining to hire ups probably won’t help and could give your son a bad rep. I would recommend he write the professor a politely persuasive email about his confusion re what time he thought would be late and leave it at that.

I used to set mine due at 11:59:59 for this very reason.

I’d also just move on. Not worth fighting over.
Then I go over to ratemyprof dot com and rate Prof Badass 1 star with the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Once Badass lowered himself to the level of an instruct, he can’t blame others for stepping on him. Life is fair.

“Once Badass lowered himself to the level of an INSECT 🕷 , he can’t blame others for stepping on him. Life is fair.”

WOW that we live in a world where so many people believe that someone who sets rules and expects they are followed then follows them is a villain. Good luck to the children you are raising with these self-centered, icky worldviews.

Not sure why you are objecting to students’ exercising their rights. As professors have a right to evaluate their students, students have a right to evaluate their professors.

LOL, who cares about ratemyprof?

Most students read this website. Your kid probably goes to Podunk U where profs are in demand in lower level courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What if, hypothetically, the student was a person of color who was understandably struggling with recent events, and the professor was a white person? Same adherence to rigid deadline?

Any struggling student can request a variety of accommodations via the Dean of Students office, but it is their responsibility to do so, and do so ahead of time (not at 11:59:30).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What if, hypothetically, the student was a person of color who was understandably struggling with recent events, and the professor was a white person? Same adherence to rigid deadline?

What are you talking about? A URM now gets a BLM extra 10 mins?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Work with precise numbers all the time. He made the deadline. The professor is being ridiculous.

He did make a deadline, darling. And set it with a computer system.

Is "darling" necessary? Bit condescending.

So is claiming there should have been a deadline set when there was, indeed, a deadline set.

Who claimed that? First poster quoted was saying that the son made the deadline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a chronic illness that requires me to spend 50% of my existence in the bathroom. I understand chronic illnesses can be rough. But let me tell you now, it never made a difference between me submitting something at 11:59 and 11:59:01.

If his illness was the reason for the delay, it still shouldn’t have come down to a game of minutes.
Professors don’t budge on stuff. It’s how they turn teenagers into adults. It’s unfortunate, but he will recover from this grade dip.

Thank you for this.

As I said, DS takes full responsibility for submitting last minute as he failed to ask for more time. He doesn't blame his illness for the delay.

The only reason why he is considering appealing the professor's decision is that if the deadline is 11:59pm, should something that is submitted at 11:59 be late?

The way the system works, it is late. You need to submit by 11:58 on that clock to be on time, because 11:59:01 registers as late.

Lesson learned maybe.

[Anonymous]

I've always assumed 11:59 meant anytime the clock says 11:59. If I say it's noon, am I wrong because it's actually 12:00:18? Good thing I've never had to advise my kid on this and that he's never cut it that close.

[Anonymous]

Another professor here. This whole thread is so funny to me. I can't believe a parent would take the time to post here about this. As PPs have mentioned, this professor is probably using Blackboard. That's what my university uses (I hate it, but we don't get to choose). When setting deadlines in Bb the options are limited. You can't set a deadline as 11:59:59 pm. You get a drop down menu with half hour increments, along with End of Day. To Bb, End of Day is 11:59:00. Anything that comes in after that is automatically marked late.

I use 11:59 pm as the deadline for my courses, because midnight is potentially confusing to some students. However, I make it very clear in my syllabi and all communications to them that the deadline is BY, NOT AT, 11:59 pm and that Bb will mark them late if they submit at 11:59:20. I tell them to avoid that whole situation by not waiting until the very last minute to submit things. That being said, if someone does submit something a few seconds or even a couple hours late, I generally let it slide unless they do it 2-3 times (at which time I email them saying that I've noticed they're having trouble turning work in late, and ask if there's anything I can help with... but also a warning that late work will be treated in line with the syllabus policy going forward). But I see my job as being more about making sure students learn the course content than "preparing them for the real world"... especially during a pandemic. I used to be a bit more strict, but experience has taught me that if I treat my students as humans with complex lives, they will respect me back. Of course, being a woman has played a role in this. As another PP mentioned, there are data showing bias in student evals of female profs. A hardass male professor is "respected"; a hardass female professor is "b*tchy and on a power trip".

This professor needs to warn students up front about how Bb treats deadlines if they want to be a hardass about enforcement. I wonder if (s)he is fairly new to teaching. Most of us start out strict because we think we need to do it in order to be taken seriously. But then we start to relax for the reasons I described above. It is just not worth battling with students over 30 seconds and dealing with higher ups being involved due to grade appeals etc.

OP, definitely do not get involved, and tell your son to tread carefully if this professor is in a field/department related to his chosen career path. He may end up wanting a letter of recommendation at some point, and a prominent professor's letter can carry a lot of weight. If your son gets a reputation as a whiner, it will be hard for him to get strong letters from this professor or others in the department. If this late assignment ends up having a significant negative impact on this final grade (e.g. the difference between an A and a B in the course), there should be a formal grade appeal process he can follow. The appeal process generally involves letting the student and professor each meet with a faculty committee to provide evidence and give their side of the story, with a final decision being made by the committee.