DS's professor saying assignment submitted at 11:59pm is late

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What if, hypothetically, the student was a person of color who was understandably struggling with recent events, and the professor was a white person? Same adherence to rigid deadline?

Professor here. I receive requests for deadline extensions with some degree of frequency, usually around ten per semester across my three classes. I am generally very accommodating of these requests. In most cases, I don’t even require or ask for students’ to share why they need an extension — I don’t want them to feel like they need to disclose personal information/situations that they may not feel comfortable sharing in order to get the extension. However, this is only the case IF the the requests are made in advance, usually defined as at least 48 hours before the deadline. If you send me a frantic email an hour before the deadline or (God forbid) after the deadline, I am much less flexible.

[Anonymous]

Your son learned a valuable lesson. Some computer programs have 11:59 as a deadline, and some computer programs have 11:59 and 59 seconds as the deadline.

He can appeal to the professor, which it sounds like he has done. Now he needs to take the consequences like as adult, and next time he will have motivation to submit his work by 11:58.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another professor here. This whole thread is so funny to me. I can't believe a parent would take the time to post here about this. As PPs have mentioned, this professor is probably using Blackboard. That's what my university uses (I hate it, but we don't get to choose). When setting deadlines in Bb the options are limited. You can't set a deadline as 11:59:59 pm. You get a drop down menu with half hour increments, along with End of Day. To Bb, End of Day is 11:59:00. Anything that comes in after that is automatically marked late.

I use 11:59 pm as the deadline for my courses, because midnight is potentially confusing to some students. However, I make it very clear in my syllabi and all communications to them that the deadline is BY, NOT AT, 11:59 pm and that Bb will mark them late if they submit at 11:59:20. I tell them to avoid that whole situation by not waiting until the very last minute to submit things. That being said, if someone does submit something a few seconds or even a couple hours late, I generally let it slide unless they do it 2-3 times (at which time I email them saying that I've noticed they're having trouble turning work in late, and ask if there's anything I can help with... but also a warning that late work will be treated in line with the syllabus policy going forward). But I see my job as being more about making sure students learn the course content than "preparing them for the real world"... especially during a pandemic. I used to be a bit more strict, but experience has taught me that if I treat my students as humans with complex lives, they will respect me back. Of course, being a woman has played a role in this. As another PP mentioned, there are data showing bias in student evals of female profs. A hardass male professor is "respected"; a hardass female professor is "b*tchy and on a power trip".

This professor needs to warn students up front about how Bb treats deadlines if they want to be a hardass about enforcement. I wonder if (s)he is fairly new to teaching. Most of us start out strict because we think we need to do it in order to be taken seriously. But then we start to relax for the reasons I described above. It is just not worth battling with students over 30 seconds and dealing with higher ups being involved due to grade appeals etc.

OP, definitely do not get involved, and tell your son to tread carefully if this professor is in a field/department related to his chosen career path. He may end up wanting a letter of recommendation at some point, and a prominent professor's letter can carry a lot of weight. If your son gets a reputation as a whiner, it will be hard for him to get strong letters from this professor or others in the department. If this late assignment ends up having a significant negative impact on this final grade (e.g. the difference between an A and a B in the course), there should be a formal grade appeal process he can follow. The appeal process generally involves letting the student and professor each meet with a faculty committee to provide evidence and give their side of the story, with a final decision being made by the committee.

+1 from another professor. I could have written this post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you to everyone who posted helpful responses.

We'll wait until other students hear back from the department.

If DS had submitted at 12:00, I would have told him that from my perspective, late is late.

Students in DS's class were told that the assignment had to be submitted "by 11:59." DS said that there were a few other students in the course group chat who also submitted at 11:59, so definitely a small number of students. Their argument, apparently, is that "by" means "not later than" according to Merriam-Webster.

I'm not a helicopter parent. I've read How to Raise an Adult, with the stories of parents doing too much for their kids in college. DS asked me for advice, which he typically doesn't, and I wasn't sure how to respond. I would never email a professor on his behalf.

DS has definitely learned not to wait until the last minute to submit work and to ask for more time if he needs it, obviously many days before the deadline. This is his first time missing a deadline in college, and he maintains a relatively high GPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you to everyone who posted helpful responses.

We'll wait until other students hear back from the department.

If DS had submitted at 12:00, I would have told him that from my perspective, late is late.

Students in DS's class were told that the assignment had to be submitted "by 11:59." DS said that there were a few other students in the course group chat who also submitted at 11:59, so definitely a small number of students. Their argument, apparently, is that "by" means "not later than" according to Merriam-Webster.

I'm not a helicopter parent. I've read How to Raise an Adult, with the stories of parents doing too much for their kids in college. DS asked me for advice, which he typically doesn't, and I wasn't sure how to respond. I would never email a professor on his behalf.

DS has definitely learned not to wait until the last minute to submit work and to ask for more time if he needs it, obviously many days before the deadline. This is his first time missing a deadline in college, and he maintains a relatively high GPA.

Son isn't going to department now and is waiting for what happens to other students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What if, hypothetically, the student was a person of color who was understandably struggling with recent events, and the professor was a white person? Same adherence to rigid deadline?

Funny you should mention this. The whole reason why the system is automated is because humans are biased, and might be more inclined to extra time to someone who shares their background.

Becuase we don't want a system in which Cole from Greenwich gets extra time but Coleton from Willimantic doesn't, we set up systems that are "fair" because they apply to everyone equally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if, hypothetically, the student was a person of color who was understandably struggling with recent events, and the professor was a white person? Same adherence to rigid deadline?

Funny you should mention this. The whole reason why the system is automated is because humans are biased, and might be more inclined to extra time to someone who shares their background.

Becuase we don't want a system in which Cole from Greenwich gets extra time but Coleton from Willimantic doesn't, we set up systems that are "fair" because they apply to everyone equally.

If a student came to me and shared this struggle I'd be very likely to be sympathetic. In fact, I'm teaching this summer and have made several proactive accommodations for protests, school-sponsored vigils, etc... for all students ahead of time. But this isn't that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you to everyone who posted helpful responses.

We'll wait until other students hear back from the department.

If DS had submitted at 12:00, I would have told him that from my perspective, late is late.

Students in DS's class were told that the assignment had to be submitted "by 11:59." DS said that there were a few other students in the course group chat who also submitted at 11:59, so definitely a small number of students. Their argument, apparently, is that "by" means "not later than" according to Merriam-Webster.

I'm not a helicopter parent. I've read How to Raise an Adult, with the stories of parents doing too much for their kids in college. DS asked me for advice, which he typically doesn't, and I wasn't sure how to respond. I would never email a professor on his behalf.

DS has definitely learned not to wait until the last minute to submit work and to ask for more time if he needs it, obviously many days before the deadline. This is his first time missing a deadline in college, and he maintains a relatively high GPA.

Son isn't going to department now and is waiting for what happens to other students.

doesn't seem like a winning strategy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if, hypothetically, the student was a person of color who was understandably struggling with recent events, and the professor was a white person? Same adherence to rigid deadline?

Funny you should mention this. The whole reason why the system is automated is because humans are biased, and might be more inclined to extra time to someone who shares their background.

Becuase we don't want a system in which Cole from Greenwich gets extra time but Coleton from Willimantic doesn't, we set up systems that are "fair" because they apply to everyone equally.

If a student came to me and shared this struggle I'd be very likely to be sympathetic. In fact, I'm teaching this summer and have made several proactive accommodations for protests, school-sponsored vigils, etc... for all students ahead of time. But this isn't that.

When I taught, I tended to be sympathetic to anyone who approached me like an adult. And proactive generally fits that category.

I probably would be sympathetic to a 1 minute technology-based silliness, but only once.

[Anonymous]

Here's another life lesson for your son (and you) OP; not every clock (even digital clocks) read the same time.

Go to time.gov and check the official U.S. time. I guarantee between all of your devices and all of your son's devices, there are discrepancies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you to everyone who posted helpful responses.

We'll wait until other students hear back from the department.

If DS had submitted at 12:00, I would have told him that from my perspective, late is late.

Students in DS's class were told that the assignment had to be submitted "by 11:59." DS said that there were a few other students in the course group chat who also submitted at 11:59, so definitely a small number of students. Their argument, apparently, is that "by" means "not later than" according to Merriam-Webster.

I'm not a helicopter parent. I've read How to Raise an Adult, with the stories of parents doing too much for their kids in college. DS asked me for advice, which he typically doesn't, and I wasn't sure how to respond. I would never email a professor on his behalf.

DS has definitely learned not to wait until the last minute to submit work and to ask for more time if he needs it, obviously many days before the deadline. This is his first time missing a deadline in college, and he maintains a relatively high GPA.

The professor made a mistake when setting the deadline. The clock function uses seconds as I think a PP pointed out and the professor didn't realize it. He should just accept the work and do it right next time.

[Anonymous]

The professor screwed up and the student didn't. All those people on here who are saying the student should learn his lesson about deadlines and personal responsibility are missing the obvious point that the professor gave an instruction that everyone in the class (or almost everyone) would interpret as allowing a timely submission at 11:59:59. Everyone from tax preparers to litigators to college applicants would be able to see that the professor is in the wrong. The professor is the one who needs to learn a lesson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's another life lesson for your son (and you) OP; not every clock (even digital clocks) read the same time.

Go to time.gov and check the official U.S. time. I guarantee between all of your devices and all of your son's devices, there are discrepancies.

This is what the professor needs to learn. If s/he’s gonna be a sticker and set the deadline at 11:59:00:00, s/he needs to dot the i and cross the t to make sure the computer in question is following the big-G’s time.

[Anonymous]

If I were the son, I would be so embarrassed that I tried to submit a paper at 11:59, with mere seconds to spare, that I wouldn’t even fight it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If I were the son, I would be so embarrassed that I tried to submit a paper at 11:59, with mere seconds to spare, that I wouldn’t even fight it.

+1. This is the lesson here. Don't submit during the last minute. (Didn't they learn this with the Common App...)

Not gonna read all 12 pages of responses here, but as a practical matter, I suspect many profs aren't going to deduct from the grade for seconds late.