Is this going too far? Always removes Venus symbol to acknowledge transmen who menstruate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These conversations are so bizarre. Trans men identify as men, but that doesn’t change their female biology, which is exactly why they are TRANS men rather than CIS. Likewise, menstruation is a fact of female biology, which stands apart from gender identity.

Is this fact bigoted? Is acknowledging it bigoted? If so, I don’t know what to say, save that the denial of facts in favor of ideological commitment doesn’t strike me as virtuous.

I don't really care about how anyone identifies their gender. I DO care about prosecuting language violations, so that we can't talk about "pregnant women" or acknowledge that menstrual products are for women, or even talk about "women's rights" with respect to reproductive rights. Guess what buttercup - you don't have the right to be an extreme minority (man that menstruates or woman who never had female reproductive organs) and demand that all language be reorganized for you. And I also think that this tendency to bend backwards for trans inclusiveness absolutely silents women's rights. I've been called out before on social media for simply referring to "moms" as a class, making standard mom complaints (all the pressure to cook, dads not pulling their weight) ... NOT because it was unfair to men, but because there may be some trans men who are actually in the position of "moms" (unequal division of household labor) who don't want to be called moms because that's gender non-inclusive. Or something like that. On a freakin mommy blog!

I'm a PP and I'm really starting to see your point. Well stated IMO.

Yeah. I feel like people when from the very reasonable demand to be called by their chosen name/pronoun and to be able to use safe/appropriate bathrooms, to this crazy and toxic over-correction. It's not so much their gender identity as being VERY invested in a lifestyle of cancel culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These conversations are so bizarre. Trans men identify as men, but that doesn’t change their female biology, which is exactly why they are TRANS men rather than CIS. Likewise, menstruation is a fact of female biology, which stands apart from gender identity.

Is this fact bigoted? Is acknowledging it bigoted? If so, I don’t know what to say, save that the denial of facts in favor of ideological commitment doesn’t strike me as virtuous.

+1000 It's incredibly disconcerting that we now have to censor ourselves when stating basic biology. Ridiculous. Scientific facts are inherently PC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For me (and many others I am assuming), the issue is not about removing the symbol.

It is about a product, intended solely for females, giving a nod to the concept that men menstruate.
This is insane. Sure, guys, call yourself a woman, but biologically, you are still male and cannot menstruate, give birth, or breastfeed.

I don't think it's biological men "menstruating." This is about people who were born into female bodies, that identify as men. Because their bodies are female, they will menstruate...but they consider themselves men, so they are "men who menstruate."

They are not men. Men don't menstruate.
It's simple biology.

OP draws in the hateful a-holes with her pot stirring. Nice job.

DP - it's not hateful. Males do not have menstrual cycles. At all. No matter how much they would like to.

Transgenders who identify as males do.

Just because you identify as male doesn't defeat biology. I'm not anti-trans or transphobic, but some things are just common sense. They are not male nor will they ever be. You can learn to pee standing up, wear gender nonconforming clothing, and take hormones to grow facial hair. You will still be not much more than a hairy female with a deep voice and a period.

Liar.

Calm down Lisa. I'm not transphobic. But if labeling someone who believes in basic biology makes you feel better about yourself, then have at it.

DP here. I don't expect you to accept this, pp, but social construction of identity has a lot more power than just whether you have XY or XX chromosomes. There are intersexed people who have XY chromosomes but grow up female because their genitalia didn't develop fully.

[Anonymous]

This is the battle that F2M thought was important to fight? Trivial nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These conversations are so bizarre. Trans men identify as men, but that doesn’t change their female biology, which is exactly why they are TRANS men rather than CIS. Likewise, menstruation is a fact of female biology, which stands apart from gender identity.

Is this fact bigoted? Is acknowledging it bigoted? If so, I don’t know what to say, save that the denial of facts in favor of ideological commitment doesn’t strike me as virtuous.

+1000 It's incredibly disconcerting that we now have to censor ourselves when stating basic biology. Ridiculous. Scientific facts are inherently PC.

Oh you poor victims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the battle that F2M thought was important to fight? Trivial nonsense.

No, Always.

[Anonymous]

Why does Jeff always allow transphobia to exist when he cracks down on other forms of bigotry? This thread should have been squashed long ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why does Jeff always allow transphobia to exist when he cracks down on other forms of bigotry? This thread should have been squashed long ago.

The thread is ok. You should flag the actual transphobic comments and Jeff will delete them. Trans political movements are not free from critique, you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why does Jeff always allow transphobia to exist when he cracks down on other forms of bigotry? This thread should have been squashed long ago.

Do you really think someone is transphobic if they completely support transgender rights and protection and health coverage but don't want to lose the meaning of man or woman entirely?

I'm actually curious because I feel like this is what I am. I actively support a transgender person's right to work free of abuse, to get married, to transition, to have their health care covered by all health insurance etc etc.

I just don't like the idea that language that defines women is being criticized and in some places, removed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does Jeff always allow transphobia to exist when he cracks down on other forms of bigotry? This thread should have been squashed long ago.

Do you really think someone is transphobic if they completely support transgender rights and protection and health coverage but don't want to lose the meaning of man or woman entirely?

I'm actually curious because I feel like this is what I am. I actively support a transgender person's right to work free of abuse, to get married, to transition, to have their health care covered by all health insurance etc etc.

I just don't like the idea that language that defines women is being criticized and in some places, removed.

This. and it's ALWAYS language policing about women. Never language policing about men. I don't see a lot of complaints out there about exclusionary langauge involving Viagra or prostate exams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These conversations are so bizarre. Trans men identify as men, but that doesn’t change their female biology, which is exactly why they are TRANS men rather than CIS. Likewise, menstruation is a fact of female biology, which stands apart from gender identity.

Is this fact bigoted? Is acknowledging it bigoted? If so, I don’t know what to say, save that the denial of facts in favor of ideological commitment doesn’t strike me as virtuous.

No but understanding your 1st paragraph to be true and wanting trans men to not express what they want for menstrual
Products is bigoted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These conversations are so bizarre. Trans men identify as men, but that doesn’t change their female biology, which is exactly why they are TRANS men rather than CIS. Likewise, menstruation is a fact of female biology, which stands apart from gender identity.

Is this fact bigoted? Is acknowledging it bigoted? If so, I don’t know what to say, save that the denial of facts in favor of ideological commitment doesn’t strike me as virtuous.

No but understanding your 1st paragraph to be true and wanting trans men to not express what they want for menstrual
Products is bigoted.

It's fine for trans men (or anyone) to express what they want in product marketing. Lord knows that trans men aren't alone in disliking gender stereotypes in marketing. However, it's NOT bigoted to be annoyed that trans men essentially want to hijack and outlaw an entire way of speaking (and erase entire, very important categories of identity) just because they claim it excludes them. I get it, some parturients do not identify as women. But to forbid anyone from saying "pregnant woman" or talk about motherhood as a general experience is to basically erase the experience of women and not allow them to talk about it ... including the ways they experience subjugation due to their sex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For me (and many others I am assuming), the issue is not about removing the symbol.

It is about a product, intended solely for females, giving a nod to the concept that men menstruate.
This is insane. Sure, guys, call yourself a woman, but biologically, you are still male and cannot menstruate, give birth, or breastfeed.

I don't think it's biological men "menstruating." This is about people who were born into female bodies, that identify as men. Because their bodies are female, they will menstruate...but they consider themselves men, so they are "men who menstruate."

They are not men. Men don't menstruate.
It's simple biology.

OP draws in the hateful a-holes with her pot stirring. Nice job.

DP - it's not hateful. Males do not have menstrual cycles. At all. No matter how much they would like to.

Transgenders who identify as males do.

Just because you identify as male doesn't defeat biology. I'm not anti-trans or transphobic, but some things are just common sense. They are not male nor will they ever be. You can learn to pee standing up, wear gender nonconforming clothing, and take hormones to grow facial hair. You will still be not much more than a hairy female with a deep voice and a period.

Liar.

Calm down Lisa. I'm not transphobic. But if labeling someone who believes in basic biology makes you feel better about yourself, then have at it.

DP here. I don't expect you to accept this, pp, but social construction of identity has a lot more power than just whether you have XY or XX chromosomes. There are intersexed people who have XY chromosomes but grow up female because their genitalia didn't develop fully.

You're saying that politics should dictate what biology should be. It's the same coin as the conservative religious people who want to use politics to deny evolution exists. The other face of the coin but still the same coin.

Social construction of an identity is problematic because the question becomes to what extent should society support your self-diagnosed identity. I'm sure people will get upset for my pointing this out but there's a large overlap between self-diagnosed transgenderism and a bunch of other neurosis issues, as we see in the cases of transgender women claiming to suffer the biological effects of actual biological women, which is impossible. That aside, I am also a strong supporter of free will so if it makes someone happy to live their life as the opposite gender, by all means I'm for it. But I don't want that to come at a cost and it does seem to be extracting a cost, which is neutralizing the gender identity of women much more than it does for the male identity. The sports example is a perfect one. It's women, not men, who are being asked to pay the price demanded of greater tolerance for transgenders. Given that historically women were the far more oppressed of the genders and told for thousands of years they were inferior, both biologically and intellectually, because they were female, it is a very odd thing to be living in a time when activists are effectively demanding the female aspect of being, well, female, needs to be neutralized so that males can be females....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These conversations are so bizarre. Trans men identify as men, but that doesn’t change their female biology, which is exactly why they are TRANS men rather than CIS. Likewise, menstruation is a fact of female biology, which stands apart from gender identity.

Is this fact bigoted? Is acknowledging it bigoted? If so, I don’t know what to say, save that the denial of facts in favor of ideological commitment doesn’t strike me as virtuous.

+1000 It's incredibly disconcerting that we now have to censor ourselves when stating basic biology. Ridiculous. Scientific facts are inherently PC.

Oh you poor victims.

Well that would actually be the trans folk who are complaining about the insensitivity of the mere existence of scientific facts.

[Anonymous]

I don’t even know or care what the Venus symbol is, but maybe they could put a mustache on it!