What does it mean to “ban” abortion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Roe isn't going anywhere. The sky is not falling.

Conservatives are pragmatists. They don't like abortion, so they tend not to have them. They also recognize the tremendous value in keeping the numbers of liberals in check that abortion provides. Margaret Sanger knew what she was doing when she founded PP.

are you nuts. your base is evangelical mysonginist. they would LOVE to overturn Roe. Or just make it impossible to get an abortion in most states. Sorry, I know several very conservative women who have had abortions, all pro-life. The hypocrisy of conservatives is well known.

Are you unable to fathom that perhaps they consider the abortion to be the gravest mistake of their lives, and they want to prevent other women from suffering as they have?

Oh give me strength. That is the most disingenuous argument I've heard yet.

Seriously.

“Ninety-five percent of women who have had abortions do not regret the decision to terminate their pregnancies, according to a study published last week in the multidisciplinary academic journal PLOS ONE.”
http://time.com/3956781/women-abortion-regret-reproductive-health/
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0128832#sec013

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Roe isn't going anywhere. The sky is not falling.

Conservatives are pragmatists. They don't like abortion, so they tend not to have them. They also recognize the tremendous value in keeping the numbers of liberals in check that abortion provides. Margaret Sanger knew what she was doing when she founded PP.

True, they just pay off their mistresses and girlfriends to have them.

Most of my conservative friends top desire is to make abortion illegal. What they do t realize it is the law will eventually affect their daughters who are dealing with difficult pregnancies or miscarriages, but won't affect rich Republicans who will fly their mistresses and daughters to places with abortion.

They also live in areas with lots of poor people who will no longer be able to have abortions if their state goes in that direction. Resulting in lots more welfare it lots more crime. Guess they will get their wish!

How can a (hopeful) ban on abortion affect women who are having miscarriages?

Because doctors will refuse to to treat them and they'll bleed to death. Or the police will be called, they will be blamed for the miscarriage, and they will be jailed.

Google around to see how it works in other countries that have banned abortion. Stop being so clueless.

Yup. Here’s a primer from the NYT a few weeks ago.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/31/opinion/sunday/abortion-banned-latin-america.html

“But if abortion drugs have reduced the risk of death from illegal abortion, they have also generated new concerns: When abortion is a crime, the emergency room can become the scene of a criminal investigation, and doctors the detectives.

If a woman takes the wrong drug or the wrong dosage, particularly too late in pregnancy, she is likely to wind up in the emergency room, bleeding. There is no ready way for doctors to tell the difference between the hemorrhaging from a natural miscarriage and that from an induced abortion. But this hasn’t stopped governments from tasking them with trying.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The language in Roe v. Wade is squishy enough for states to pass laws that make it virtually impossible for clinics to carryout abortions. A conservative SCOTUS would automatically uphold whatever conservative decision there is. This invariably would implicate federal funding and such.

A conservative SCOTUS will look for cases that allow it to shrink abortion rights and access to the point where you can only get an abortion if you're able to travel outside the US.

Ever read The Handmaid's Tale? Guess what's the first thing that goes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The language in Roe v. Wade is squishy enough for states to pass laws that make it virtually impossible for clinics to carryout abortions. A conservative SCOTUS would automatically uphold whatever conservative decision there is. This invariably would implicate federal funding and such.

A conservative SCOTUS will look for cases that allow it to shrink abortion rights and access to the point where you can only get an abortion if you're able to travel outside the US.

Ever read The Handmaid's Tale? Guess what's the first thing that goes?

This lays out what will happen - one state’s ridiculous law which essentially ends abortion in that state, will be challenged and found NOT to be an “undue burden.”
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/kennedys-retirement-ensures-roe-v-wade-will-be-overturned.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren't miscarriages considered abortions? My wife had 2 d&cs when the fetus failed to form and were shocked to see them discussed by staff as abortions. I'm assuming any change in law would add a law enforcement interrogation to the procedure if the procedure is even available? I don't think an abortion ban will be as popular as some people think

When taking a medical history we refer to any non-surviving pregnancy as an "Ab", or abortion. Unless it's medically relevant we don't discuss whether not not it was a termination of pregnancy or an unintended loss. So it's just semantics. The emotional dialogue re: abortion vs miscarriage is a semantic argument used by (usually) male politicians who often have no understanding of the physiology of pregnancy. See how this works? To most health care providers there aren't good guys and bad guys (or girls). It's about healthcare. That's why this whole "just take a bus to a blue state" nonsense makes me want to rip my hair out. I see 20 patients a week with knee pain from overdoing it on the elliptical and they're incensed when I can't get them an emergency MRI that day. But folks want women to travel across the state for a time-sensitive procedure usually requiring an overnight stay. I'd laugh if I wasn't already screaming.

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren't miscarriages considered abortions? My wife had 2 d&cs when the fetus failed to form and were shocked to see them discussed by staff as abortions. I'm assuming any change in law would add a law enforcement interrogation to the procedure if the procedure is even available? I don't think an abortion ban will be as popular as some people think

When taking a medical history we refer to any non-surviving pregnancy as an "Ab", or abortion. Unless it's medically relevant we don't discuss whether not not it was a termination of pregnancy or an unintended loss. So it's just semantics. The emotional dialogue re: abortion vs miscarriage is a semantic argument used by (usually) male politicians who often have no understanding of the physiology of pregnancy. See how this works? To most health care providers there aren't good guys and bad guys (or girls). It's about healthcare. That's why this whole "just take a bus to a blue state" nonsense makes me want to rip my hair out. I see 20 patients a week with knee pain from overdoing it on the elliptical and they're incensed when I can't get them an emergency MRI that day. But folks want women to travel across the state for a time-sensitive procedure usually requiring an overnight stay. I'd laugh if I wasn't already screaming.

If the conservatives do get an "abortion ban" in place, many of the right wing women are going to be shocked they will be tried for murder if they have a miscarriage or fetal death.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren't miscarriages considered abortions? My wife had 2 d&cs when the fetus failed to form and were shocked to see them discussed by staff as abortions. I'm assuming any change in law would add a law enforcement interrogation to the procedure if the procedure is even available? I don't think an abortion ban will be as popular as some people think

When taking a medical history we refer to any non-surviving pregnancy as an "Ab", or abortion. Unless it's medically relevant we don't discuss whether not not it was a termination of pregnancy or an unintended loss. So it's just semantics. The emotional dialogue re: abortion vs miscarriage is a semantic argument used by (usually) male politicians who often have no understanding of the physiology of pregnancy. See how this works? To most health care providers there aren't good guys and bad guys (or girls). It's about healthcare. That's why this whole "just take a bus to a blue state" nonsense makes me want to rip my hair out. I see 20 patients a week with knee pain from overdoing it on the elliptical and they're incensed when I can't get them an emergency MRI that day. But folks want women to travel across the state for a time-sensitive procedure usually requiring an overnight stay. I'd laugh if I wasn't already screaming.

If the conservatives do get an "abortion ban" in place, many of the right wing women are going to be shocked they will be tried for murder if they have a miscarriage or fetal death.

I don’t want to say I will relish that.

Because the flip side is that if they can force you to carry a pregnancy to term, what else can they force pregnant women to? Quit work? C-sections? No epidurals? And before you say, “that’s ridiculous, that’s unscientific and women are people, no one will tell me how to give birth because of politics,” remember that anti choice lawmakers are already making doctors lie to women before abortions.

Newsflash, conservative ladies: your male fellow conservatives don’t think you’re a full person. You will get ground under same as poor woman who needs an abortion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren't miscarriages considered abortions? My wife had 2 d&cs when the fetus failed to form and were shocked to see them discussed by staff as abortions. I'm assuming any change in law would add a law enforcement interrogation to the procedure if the procedure is even available? I don't think an abortion ban will be as popular as some people think

When taking a medical history we refer to any non-surviving pregnancy as an "Ab", or abortion. Unless it's medically relevant we don't discuss whether not not it was a termination of pregnancy or an unintended loss. So it's just semantics. The emotional dialogue re: abortion vs miscarriage is a semantic argument used by (usually) male politicians who often have no understanding of the physiology of pregnancy. See how this works? To most health care providers there aren't good guys and bad guys (or girls). It's about healthcare. That's why this whole "just take a bus to a blue state" nonsense makes me want to rip my hair out. I see 20 patients a week with knee pain from overdoing it on the elliptical and they're incensed when I can't get them an emergency MRI that day. But folks want women to travel across the state for a time-sensitive procedure usually requiring an overnight stay. I'd laugh if I wasn't already screaming.

If the conservatives do get an "abortion ban" in place, many of the right wing women are going to be shocked they will be tried for murder if they have a miscarriage or fetal death.

I don’t want to say I will relish that.

Because the flip side is that if they can force you to carry a pregnancy to term, what else can they force pregnant women to? Quit work? C-sections? No epidurals? And before you say, “that’s ridiculous, that’s unscientific and women are people, no one will tell me how to give birth because of politics,” remember that anti choice lawmakers are already making doctors lie to women before abortions.

Newsflash, conservative ladies: your male fellow conservatives don’t think you’re a full person. You will get ground under same as poor woman who needs an abortion.

+1. Serena Joy did not expect to have to spend so much time knitting, or that the Canadians would give her schedules printed in all pictures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Roe isn't going anywhere. The sky is not falling.

Conservatives are pragmatists. They don't like abortion, so they tend not to have them. They also recognize the tremendous value in keeping the numbers of liberals in check that abortion provides. Margaret Sanger knew what she was doing when she founded PP.

are you nuts. your base is evangelical mysonginist. they would LOVE to overturn Roe. Or just make it impossible to get an abortion in most states. Sorry, I know several very conservative women who have had abortions, all pro-life. The hypocrisy of conservatives is well known.

Are you unable to fathom that perhaps they consider the abortion to be the gravest mistake of their lives, and they want to prevent other women from suffering as they have?

Exactly. It's about controlling women. Every anti-choice argument comes down to this. Jesus I get tired of this academic argument. I'm a physician and let me tell you bad outcomes do not discriminate. Nor do unexpected events, complications, or life complexities. You know what levels the playing field? Bleeding, death, infection. Chromosomal abnormalities. Spouses whose drinking has been on the fringe for years and just lately got out of control. Job loss. Older parents getting ill and having to move in. SO many reasons life changes and you/your family can or cannot care for another baby. Everyone is different. Every situation. We treat people on a case by case basis all the time for heart attacks, hypertension, trauma, COPD, etc etc. Pregnancy is not different folks. It's just a health care issue that lives squarely in a veiled emotional argument that people think won't effect them, until it does. Then the rules don't apply.

I hope to the dear Lord that you are not my physician. If you don't see the difference between MIs, HTN, trauma, COPD, etc etc, and pregnancy -- which, I apparently need to remind this good doctor -- is about bringing new life into the world, then you need to go back to undergrad and retake biology. Or, perhaps you slept through your medical ethics courses. (Oh, and in your last sentence, it's "affect them," not "effect them." You're welcome.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Roe isn't going anywhere. The sky is not falling.

Conservatives are pragmatists. They don't like abortion, so they tend not to have them. They also recognize the tremendous value in keeping the numbers of liberals in check that abortion provides. Margaret Sanger knew what she was doing when she founded PP.

are you nuts. your base is evangelical mysonginist. they would LOVE to overturn Roe. Or just make it impossible to get an abortion in most states. Sorry, I know several very conservative women who have had abortions, all pro-life. The hypocrisy of conservatives is well known.

Are you unable to fathom that perhaps they consider the abortion to be the gravest mistake of their lives, and they want to prevent other women from suffering as they have?

Exactly. It's about controlling women. Every anti-choice argument comes down to this. Jesus I get tired of this academic argument. I'm a physician and let me tell you bad outcomes do not discriminate. Nor do unexpected events, complications, or life complexities. You know what levels the playing field? Bleeding, death, infection. Chromosomal abnormalities. Spouses whose drinking has been on the fringe for years and just lately got out of control. Job loss. Older parents getting ill and having to move in. SO many reasons life changes and you/your family can or cannot care for another baby. Everyone is different. Every situation. We treat people on a case by case basis all the time for heart attacks, hypertension, trauma, COPD, etc etc. Pregnancy is not different folks. It's just a health care issue that lives squarely in a veiled emotional argument that people think won't effect them, until it does. Then the rules don't apply.

I hope to the dear Lord that you are not my physician. If you don't see the difference between MIs, HTN, trauma, COPD, etc etc, and pregnancy -- which, I apparently need to remind this good doctor -- is about bringing new life into the world, then you need to go back to undergrad and retake biology. Or, perhaps you slept through your medical ethics courses. (Oh, and in your last sentence, it's "affect them," not "effect them." You're welcome.)

Bleed out from a post partum hemorrhage and tell me that. DP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Roe isn't going anywhere. The sky is not falling.

Conservatives are pragmatists. They don't like abortion, so they tend not to have them. They also recognize the tremendous value in keeping the numbers of liberals in check that abortion provides. Margaret Sanger knew what she was doing when she founded PP.

are you nuts. your base is evangelical mysonginist. they would LOVE to overturn Roe. Or just make it impossible to get an abortion in most states. Sorry, I know several very conservative women who have had abortions, all pro-life. The hypocrisy of conservatives is well known.

Are you unable to fathom that perhaps they consider the abortion to be the gravest mistake of their lives, and they want to prevent other women from suffering as they have?

Exactly. It's about controlling women. Every anti-choice argument comes down to this. Jesus I get tired of this academic argument. I'm a physician and let me tell you bad outcomes do not discriminate. Nor do unexpected events, complications, or life complexities. You know what levels the playing field? Bleeding, death, infection. Chromosomal abnormalities. Spouses whose drinking has been on the fringe for years and just lately got out of control. Job loss. Older parents getting ill and having to move in. SO many reasons life changes and you/your family can or cannot care for another baby. Everyone is different. Every situation. We treat people on a case by case basis all the time for heart attacks, hypertension, trauma, COPD, etc etc. Pregnancy is not different folks. It's just a health care issue that lives squarely in a veiled emotional argument that people think won't effect them, until it does. Then the rules don't apply.

I hope to the dear Lord that you are not my physician. If you don't see the difference between MIs, HTN, trauma, COPD, etc etc, and pregnancy -- which, I apparently need to remind this good doctor -- is about bringing new life into the world, then you need to go back to undergrad and retake biology. Or, perhaps you slept through your medical ethics courses. (Oh, and in your last sentence, it's "affect them," not "effect them." You're welcome.)

Are you still hyperventilating?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Given Justice Kennedy’s retirement, I hear a lot of talk of “overturning” Roe v Wade or “banning” abortion. But what does this mean, practically speaking? Will girls who receive illegal abortions be arrested and charged with first-degree murder? What about rape victims? Will they be required by law to carry their rapist’s baby to term? Will women be required to report miscarriages to the police? Will the police be required to investigate all reports of miscarriages?

I was born after Roe v Wade so I’m trying to get a sense of what it will mean to return to a pre-Roe v Wade world.

"Girls"? Females over age 16 are WOMEN. What a sexist term.

Since you do not know how to use a dictionary, here is the definition of ban:

"officially or legally prohibit.". It also means that women will be forced to bear the child of a rapist or one conceived in incest. As well as being forced to have a child she does not want for many reasons.

How can anyone with a 3rd grade education not know what ban means?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given Justice Kennedy’s retirement, I hear a lot of talk of “overturning” Roe v Wade or “banning” abortion. But what does this mean, practically speaking? Will girls who receive illegal abortions be arrested and charged with first-degree murder? What about rape victims? Will they be required by law to carry their rapist’s baby to term? Will women be required to report miscarriages to the police? Will the police be required to investigate all reports of miscarriages?

I was born after Roe v Wade so I’m trying to get a sense of what it will mean to return to a pre-Roe v Wade world.

"Girls"? Females over age 16 are WOMEN. What a sexist term.

Since you do not know how to use a dictionary, here is the definition of ban:

"officially or legally prohibit.". It also means that women will be forced to bear the child of a rapist or one conceived in incest. As well as being forced to have a child she does not want for many reasons.

How can anyone with a 3rd grade education not know what ban means?!

You waited until 11 pages into the thread to post something that inane and pedantic? It's obvious OP was asking what a ban would substantively look like, not for the definition of the word "ban."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given Justice Kennedy’s retirement, I hear a lot of talk of “overturning” Roe v Wade or “banning” abortion. But what does this mean, practically speaking? Will girls who receive illegal abortions be arrested and charged with first-degree murder? What about rape victims? Will they be required by law to carry their rapist’s baby to term? Will women be required to report miscarriages to the police? Will the police be required to investigate all reports of miscarriages?

I was born after Roe v Wade so I’m trying to get a sense of what it will mean to return to a pre-Roe v Wade world.

"Girls"? Females over age 16 are WOMEN. What a sexist term.

Since you do not know how to use a dictionary, here is the definition of ban:

"officially or legally prohibit.". It also means that women will be forced to bear the child of a rapist or one conceived in incest. As well as being forced to have a child she does not want for many reasons.

How can anyone with a 3rd grade education not know what ban means?!

You waited until 11 pages into the thread to post something that inane and pedantic? It's obvious OP was asking what a ban would substantively look like, not for the definition of the word "ban."

+1. The big hint is in the second sentence.

”But what does this mean, practically speaking?”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren't miscarriages considered abortions? My wife had 2 d&cs when the fetus failed to form and were shocked to see them discussed by staff as abortions. I'm assuming any change in law would add a law enforcement interrogation to the procedure if the procedure is even available? I don't think an abortion ban will be as popular as some people think

When taking a medical history we refer to any non-surviving pregnancy as an "Ab", or abortion. Unless it's medically relevant we don't discuss whether not not it was a termination of pregnancy or an unintended loss. So it's just semantics. The emotional dialogue re: abortion vs miscarriage is a semantic argument used by (usually) male politicians who often have no understanding of the physiology of pregnancy. See how this works? To most health care providers there aren't good guys and bad guys (or girls). It's about healthcare. That's why this whole "just take a bus to a blue state" nonsense makes me want to rip my hair out. I see 20 patients a week with knee pain from overdoing it on the elliptical and they're incensed when I can't get them an emergency MRI that day. But folks want women to travel across the state for a time-sensitive procedure usually requiring an overnight stay. I'd laugh if I wasn't already screaming.

If the conservatives do get an "abortion ban" in place, many of the right wing women are going to be shocked they will be tried for murder if they have a miscarriage or fetal death.

I don’t want to say I will relish that.

Because the flip side is that if they can force you to carry a pregnancy to term, what else can they force pregnant women to? Quit work? C-sections? No epidurals? And before you say, “that’s ridiculous, that’s unscientific and women are people, no one will tell me how to give birth because of politics,” remember that anti choice lawmakers are already making doctors lie to women before abortions.

Newsflash, conservative ladies: your male fellow conservatives don’t think you’re a full person. You will get ground under same as poor woman who needs an abortion.

.

This.

Remember my mom was still resentful that she had to quit he really good job (for 1969) when I was born and could not go back; her job was not held for her after pregnancy. She never had a job as good and well earning for the rest of her working life.

There are reasons women fought for the workplace, business, and healthcare protections we have now.

Once conservative women vote to trust men with their bodies instead of trusting themselves to make the right decision, they will see howany more options get taken away.