NYT article on easing academic pressure and a cultural divide

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is just more of the same thing. Spelling bees are another form of rote memorization.

Spelling bees do not involve a lot of critical, analytical, or creative thinking. Yes, you can analyze the roots of words and group them together in various ways, but the main skill used is memorization.

I don't think that's true. Nobody in the spelling bee is memorizing the dictionary. Or maybe somebody is, but not many people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to school in this district about two decades when it was still majority white. It has always been a very academic and well regarded district but was not crazy competitive as described in the article. My class mates included Ethan Hawke ( who spent his last two years of high school in private school), the director Bryan Singer, the screenwriter Chris McQuarrie, and Jim Murphy of LTD Soundsystem. None needed the after school Kumon to be successful. iMO the superintendent is on the right track in bringing the school system where it use to be. For what it's worth, I went to a top 15 college and an Ivy League law school.

The school district maybe majority Asian at this point so maybe they should serve them instead of trying to *bring the school system where it use to be*

I sort of agree with this. I think the problem is that the superintendent is turning it into a bit of a culture war uneccesarily by using value-laden terms like "the whole child." This tends to make people fight back by asserting their own value system. I think if they concentrated more on the specific preferences and problems happening instead of talking so broadly, it would be easier to reach consensus with all stakeholders. Because at the end of the day, the one definitely true thing is that all parents want the best for their kids.

What I don't understand is cutting out advanced math until 6th grade in the article. If some parents don't want their darling "pressured" don't they have the option to opt out?!? The school system got rid of a program that was 90% Asian when it sounds like the people who were utilizing it, wanted it.

Taking college courses for advanced credit is voluntary. But they got rid of that too.

Crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

According to my gf who is head of all interviewers for HYP at a very large metropolitan city on the east coast, merit means having excellent grades, test scores, a measurable achievement in an area of interest - think Olympic caliber athlete, winning Intel competition, publishing original scientific research, etc. and/or overcoming great odds to achieve whatever outstanding "something", an interesting background story helps too. Like your father is a cab driver...

HTHs!

Harvard accepted 1,990 applicants last spring. They weren't all Olympic-caliber athletes, Intel competition winners, authors of original scientific research, or overcomers of great odds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What I don't understand is cutting out advanced math until 6th grade in the article. If some parents don't want their darling "pressured" don't they have the option to opt out?!? The school system got rid of a program that was 90% Asian when it sounds like the people who were utilizing it, wanted it.

Taking college courses for advanced credit is voluntary. But they got rid of that too.

Crazy.

Maybe the school system thought it was not a good idea for the 9-year-olds to have such advanced math under such high pressure. In fact, that is what the article says. Did you read it?

MCPS got rid of math acceleration until fourth grade, in a math progression where grade-level math gets you to Calculus AB in 12th grade, and from reading DCUM, you'd think the world was coming to an end and MCPS IS DELIBERATELY TRYING TO RUIN THE LIVES OF SMART CHILDREN!1!!1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
What I don't understand is cutting out advanced math until 6th grade in the article. If some parents don't want their darling "pressured" don't they have the option to opt out?!? The school system got rid of a program that was 90% Asian when it sounds like the people who were utilizing it, wanted it.

Taking college courses for advanced credit is voluntary. But they got rid of that too.

Crazy.

Don't worry, the students can still take the classes. They just can't get high school credit for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

According to my gf who is head of all interviewers for HYP at a very large metropolitan city on the east coast, merit means having excellent grades, test scores, a measurable achievement in an area of interest - think Olympic caliber athlete, winning Intel competition, publishing original scientific research, etc. and/or overcoming great odds to achieve whatever outstanding "something", an interesting background story helps too. Like your father is a cab driver...

HTHs!

Harvard accepted 1,990 applicants last spring. They weren't all Olympic-caliber athletes, Intel competition winners, authors of original scientific research, or overcomers of great odds.

Harvard accepts 5% from the general application pool so while they weren't all Olympic caliber athletes, Intel winners, etc they had something else that stood out more than good grades and SAT scores (25% of accepted students had perfect scores in all sections)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm Asian, and I don't like the uber competitiveness and stress that some of these kids are going through. Having stated that, I do find it curious that many white parents are now complaining about this type of competitive culture that Asian American kids bring to the table, but all was ok when the wealthier white kids were able to succeed, but the poorer kids (mostly minorities) couldn't keep up. This reminds me a bit of the recent article about how the public wants to treat drug addicts differently now that it's affecting more affluent white kids.

Ding Ding Ding.

I'm the poster who grew up in this district. Had one Asian American classmate who committed suicide when he got a B on his report card(this was in high school). Not clear from the article the ethnicity of the kid who drew a cartoon of his parent telling him getting an A instead of A plus on a calculus test was a "disgrace" but don't think it is correct that the pressure cooker atmosphere only negatively affects white kids. This school district is affluent and has never had an issue with disadvantaged kids being hurt by community standa dis being too high. Nice attempt to try to avoid the real issues though.

I'm the PPP. I'm not talking about just this one area, but in general. It's human nature to feel threatened when you hold all the cards and now are threatened. This is how the WASPS felt when Jews started to increase their numbers in the Ivies. What did the WASPS do? They decided to change the admission criteria to weed more of the Jews out.

You have to be living under a rock to think that lower income kids are not disadvantaged compared to the wealthy kids in terms of schooling. We live in a very mixed SES area. A lot if not all of the writing HW, and some in class work, in my kids' ES are done on the computer. I was volunteering one day in my DC's 2nd grade class when they were doing research on the computer. One kid couldn't finish the research so I said something like "You can try to finish it at home if you want." The kid said, "I don't have a computer at home". You don't think this curriculum that required access to a computer affected this kid's ability to keep up in school? And now adays, so much of the standardized tests are on computers. My 2nd grader is pretty good on the computer now... knows where all the letters/numbers are on the keyboard. For kids that don't have computers, it takes them a looong time to type anything. This alone affects their ability to be competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Property taxes pay for schools, no?

Well, property taxes help pay for schools. But only in states with inequitable systems for school funding are property taxes the main source of school funding.

Don't worry. Most of the public school districts that Asians target to send their kids like McLean (for TJ) use property taxes. People who send their kids to other countries for schooling are not exactly poor illegal immigrants sucking on the US taxpayers teat.

Such schools also receive funding from the state and federal
Government in addition to revenue from local property tax dollars.

The US has a tradition of providing a free public education to children regardless of sex, race, disability... Ability to pay

And immigration status. So you are voting for Trump?

Trump is not a dirty word, but to answer your question directly, no I doubt he'll get my vote. This might be an election to sit out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm Asian, and I don't like the uber competitiveness and stress that some of these kids are going through. Having stated that, I do find it curious that many white parents are now complaining about this type of competitive culture that Asian American kids bring to the table, but all was ok when the wealthier white kids were able to succeed, but the poorer kids (mostly minorities) couldn't keep up. This reminds me a bit of the recent article about how the public wants to treat drug addicts differently now that it's affecting more affluent white kids.

Ding Ding Ding.

I'm the poster who grew up in this district. Had one Asian American classmate who committed suicide when he got a B on his report card(this was in high school). Not clear from the article the ethnicity of the kid who drew a cartoon of his parent telling him getting an A instead of A plus on a calculus test was a "disgrace" but don't think it is correct that the pressure cooker atmosphere only negatively affects white kids. This school district is affluent and has never had an issue with disadvantaged kids being hurt by community standa dis being too high. Nice attempt to try to avoid the real issues though.

I'm the PPP. I'm not talking about just this one area, but in general. It's human nature to feel threatened when you hold all the cards and now are threatened. This is how the WASPS felt when Jews started to increase their numbers in the Ivies. What did the WASPS do? They decided to change the admission criteria to weed more of the Jews out.

You have to be living under a rock to think that lower income kids are not disadvantaged compared to the wealthy kids in terms of schooling. We live in a very mixed SES area. A lot if not all of the writing HW, and some in class work, in my kids' ES are done on the computer. I was volunteering one day in my DC's 2nd grade class when they were doing research on the computer. One kid couldn't finish the research so I said something like "You can try to finish it at home if you want." The kid said, "I don't have a computer at home". You don't think this curriculum that required access to a computer affected this kid's ability to keep up in school? And now adays, so much of the standardized tests are on computers. My 2nd grader is pretty good on the computer now... knows where all the letters/numbers are on the keyboard. For kids that don't have computers, it takes them a looong time to type anything. This alone affects their ability to be competitive.

That's sad! In my hometown when I was visiting this fall, I noticed that the public library has great kids' computer kiosks and seemed to function as an after school center for older kids (looked like 2nd grade on up). Too bad DC doesn't have similar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Property taxes pay for schools, no?

Well, property taxes help pay for schools. But only in states with inequitable systems for school funding are property taxes the main source of school funding.

Don't worry. Most of the public school districts that Asians target to send their kids like McLean (for TJ) use property taxes. People who send their kids to other countries for schooling are not exactly poor illegal immigrants sucking on the US taxpayers teat.

Such schools also receive funding from the state and federal
Government in addition to revenue from local property tax dollars.

The US has a tradition of providing a free public education to children regardless of sex, race, disability... Ability to pay

And immigration status. So you are voting for Trump?

Trump is not a dirty word, but to answer your question directly, no I doubt he'll get my vote. This might be an election to sit out

You can write your own candidate in... Mickey Mouse?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

According to my gf who is head of all interviewers for HYP at a very large metropolitan city on the east coast, merit means having excellent grades, test scores, a measurable achievement in an area of interest - think Olympic caliber athlete, winning Intel competition, publishing original scientific research, etc. and/or overcoming great odds to achieve whatever outstanding "something", an interesting background story helps too. Like your father is a cab driver...

HTHs!

Harvard accepted 1,990 applicants last spring. They weren't all Olympic-caliber athletes, Intel competition winners, authors of original scientific research, or overcomers of great odds.

Harvard accepts 5% from the general application pool so while they weren't all Olympic caliber athletes, Intel winners, etc they had something else that stood out more than good grades and SAT scores (25% of accepted students had perfect scores in all sections)

Although that's mostly because more and more and more people are applying. There were 37,305 applicants for the class of 2019. As recently as 11 years ago, there were fewer than 20,000.

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2015/2/6/admissions-applications-2019-record-high/

But yes, just plain good grades and SAT scores aren't going to get you into Harvard -- though this was true 30 years ago as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What I don't understand is cutting out advanced math until 6th grade in the article. If some parents don't want their darling "pressured" don't they have the option to opt out?!? The school system got rid of a program that was 90% Asian when it sounds like the people who were utilizing it, wanted it.

Taking college courses for advanced credit is voluntary. But they got rid of that too.

Crazy.

Maybe the school system thought it was not a good idea for the 9-year-olds to have such advanced math under such high pressure. In fact, that is what the article says. Did you read it?

MCPS got rid of math acceleration until fourth grade, in a math progression where grade-level math gets you to Calculus AB in 12th grade, and from reading DCUM, you'd think the world was coming to an end and MCPS IS DELIBERATELY TRYING TO RUIN THE LIVES OF SMART CHILDREN!1!!1.

In the article, it sounds like the Asian parents who had their kids in advanced math classes wanted it to continue. Not sure why people who did not have their kid in the program should have any say in the matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The US has a tradition of providing a free public education to children regardless of sex, race, disability... Ability to pay

And immigration status. So you are voting for Trump?

It's not just tradition, it's the law. (Actually laws.) But maybe that PP wishes that it weren't the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am agreeing with you that elite schools USE soft quotas against asians. my point was more of a question as to why do people always complain about asian so-called 'over-representation' but never jewish 'over-representation'? Since the latter is never said, shouldn't the argument of over-representation not be used across the board?

Why do people never complain about upper-middle-class over-representation or children-of-professionals over-representation or children-of-legacies over-representation?

I believe a lot of people are anti-legacy. However, it is difficult to bring a legal case against this (as well as SES). It is easier to bring a legal case on the basis of race due to the equal protection clause.

I have been for SES-based affirmative action since day one. Schools also need to do a much better job reaching out to poor students in poor areas at a MUCH younger age so that they get on the right 'track'. It doesn't help having elite school counselors doing 'outreach' in your poor nabe or poor school when you are in 11th grade. That's too late.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

According to my gf who is head of all interviewers for HYP at a very large metropolitan city on the east coast, merit means having excellent grades, test scores, a measurable achievement in an area of interest - think Olympic caliber athlete, winning Intel competition, publishing original scientific research, etc. and/or overcoming great odds to achieve whatever outstanding "something", an interesting background story helps too. Like your father is a cab driver...

HTHs!

Harvard accepted 1,990 applicants last spring. They weren't all Olympic-caliber athletes, Intel competition winners, authors of original scientific research, or overcomers of great odds.

Harvard accepts 5% from the general application pool so while they weren't all Olympic caliber athletes, Intel winners, etc they had something else that stood out more than good grades and SAT scores (25% of accepted students had perfect scores in all sections)

Although that's mostly because more and more and more people are applying. There were 37,305 applicants for the class of 2019. As recently as 11 years ago, there were fewer than 20,000.

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2015/2/6/admissions-applications-2019-record-high/

But yes, just plain good grades and SAT scores aren't going to get you into Harvard -- though this was true 30 years ago as well.

Yeah but 30 yrs ago they accepted 10%