NYT article on easing academic pressure and a cultural divide

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I work in mental health and see far too many young adults and teens who aren't functioning well because of academic stress and a culture that seems to favor striving and image management.

If I told you how many of my clients are Asian I bet you'd be surprised. Something is wrong if so many young Asian students are having depression, panic attacks and suicidal thoughts because they don't earn an A average or get into an Ivy college, top medical school or T14 law school. Parents of these kids may think that level of pressure is needed for success. The truth is many kids will rise to the pressure and do well, but many will not.

You mean Asian parents are actually willing to seek help for their kids instead of sweeping it under the rug? Your generalization is unscientific.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Went to high school (one of the "W" schools in MoCo) with a bunch of kids like this. The Asian kids going after straight A's often burned out later. The B-average kids, usually white but also well-rounded, did pretty well career-wise. Most of the people at my 20-year reunion last year who owned successful businesses were the B-average kids. I think entrepreneurship requires a very broad range of skills.

No, they just like going to high school reunions. That proves nothing.

Possibly. I did ask about the A-students if they wernet' there, and none of them had started their own businesses. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I think it can speak to how A-students may not necessarily have as broad a range of skills/interests.

On the other hand, I'm an alumni interviewer for my alma mater, which is a top-25 university. I interviewed a few people last year, and recommended them all. The Asian students I recommended were not accepted, and looking back on it, I think it was the lack of being a well-rounded person. They did very well academically (which is why I recommended them) but weren't so well-rounded compared to the non-Asian student I interviewed (and who was accepted).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work in mental health and see far too many young adults and teens who aren't functioning well because of academic stress and a culture that seems to favor striving and image management.

If I told you how many of my clients are Asian I bet you'd be surprised. Something is wrong if so many young Asian students are having depression, panic attacks and suicidal thoughts because they don't earn an A average or get into an Ivy college, top medical school or T14 law school. Parents of these kids may think that level of pressure is needed for success. The truth is many kids will rise to the pressure and do well, but many will not.

You mean Asian parents are actually willing to seek help for their kids instead of sweeping it under the rug? Your generalization is unscientific.

I'm aware that my post is based on mostly anectdotal evidence, but not entirely. I work in a college counseling center of an elite university, and the utilization rate of our center for Asian students is proportionately very high compared to the percentage of the student body that is of Asian descent. Obviously, since these are college kids they don't need their family's consent to go to counseling. In my experience, some of their parents would have a problem knowing they're speaking to a therapist. On the other hand, some parents are supportive; they love their kids but just don't understand how their expectations of achievement impact their kids' well being.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Went to high school (one of the "W" schools in MoCo) with a bunch of kids like this. The Asian kids going after straight A's often burned out later. The B-average kids, usually white but also well-rounded, did pretty well career-wise. Most of the people at my 20-year reunion last year who owned successful businesses were the B-average kids. I think entrepreneurship requires a very broad range of skills.

I also went to one of these high schools and was a top student. I started a business right out of MIT.
So your generality is not perfect, but perhaps there is something to it.

However, you clearly didn't read the article, for which one of the main points was why many Asian parents push their kids so hard is that they lack access to many of the social networks that would be so important for starting a business or many other jobs. The fact that you are blind to this and simply think that you and the other "B-" white kids are simply superior or more well rounded or whatever is just simple minded and smug.

I am white and did not have tiger parents so this has nothing to do with me.

[Anonymous]

This is exactly why we go to private school. We want a more holistic, well-rounded experience. Yes, there is academic pressure but it's not like what we'd see at our public. Also, most parents at our school have the same mindset we do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:...On the other hand, I'm an alumni interviewer for my alma mater, which is a top-25 university. I interviewed a few people last year, and recommended them all. The Asian students I recommended were not accepted, and looking back on it, I think it was the lack of being a well-rounded person. They did very well academically (which is why I recommended them) but weren't so well-rounded compared to the non-Asian student I interviewed (and who was accepted).

what school and specifically what was lacking in the Asian students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is exactly why we go to private school. We want a more holistic, well-rounded experience. Yes, there is academic pressure but it's not like what we'd see at our public. Also, most parents at our school have the same mindset we do.

As a graduate of a private school, I think you are deluding yourself if you think this sort of pressure doesn't exist in private schools. It just might not be academic pressure. The fact that you think that most other parents think like you should be concerning, not seen as a good thing. It just means there is groupthink as to what a child's path should look like rather than a diversity of opinions. Pressure doesn't just have to be on academics, it can be pressure to fit a very specific mold, or to be quirky in just a specific way, or to be entrepreneurial in just that special way.

I don't know what the answer is, but I do think it's fairly delusional to think that kids at "our school" are immune.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...On the other hand, I'm an alumni interviewer for my alma mater, which is a top-25 university. I interviewed a few people last year, and recommended them all. The Asian students I recommended were not accepted, and looking back on it, I think it was the lack of being a well-rounded person. They did very well academically (which is why I recommended them) but weren't so well-rounded compared to the non-Asian student I interviewed (and who was accepted).

what school and specifically what was lacking in the Asian students?

NP. Not well rounded of course meaning they are geeks. Keep telling yourself that... Like Asians aren't able to figure out that you need to be "well rounded" to get accepted. This is why Harvard is 18% Asian and 11% international - mostly from Asia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...On the other hand, I'm an alumni interviewer for my alma mater, which is a top-25 university. I interviewed a few people last year, and recommended them all. The Asian students I recommended were not accepted, and looking back on it, I think it was the lack of being a well-rounded person. They did very well academically (which is why I recommended them) but weren't so well-rounded compared to the non-Asian student I interviewed (and who was accepted).

what school and specifically what was lacking in the Asian students?

One student I remember was at a well-known private school where sports are required. He had very good grades, and did the requisite sports, but there wasn't anything to make him stand out. I actually advised him to talk more about his experiences living in the US with no family. His parents in China sent him to the US for the private high school education, so he saw them once every year at most.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...On the other hand, I'm an alumni interviewer for my alma mater, which is a top-25 university. I interviewed a few people last year, and recommended them all. The Asian students I recommended were not accepted, and looking back on it, I think it was the lack of being a well-rounded person. They did very well academically (which is why I recommended them) but weren't so well-rounded compared to the non-Asian student I interviewed (and who was accepted).

what school and specifically what was lacking in the Asian students?

NP. Not well rounded of course meaning they are geeks. Keep telling yourself that... Like Asians aren't able to figure out that you need to be "well rounded" to get accepted. This is why Harvard is 18% Asian and 11% international - mostly from Asia.

The problem is there are too many great Asian students, even if you look at well-rounded. China has such a large population so there are going to be, number-wise, a lot of highly-qualified students. At the same time, Harvard doesn't want their school to be 90% students from China and India, as it's not their mission. I'd say a top student in China has a harder time getting in than a top non-Asian student in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...On the other hand, I'm an alumni interviewer for my alma mater, which is a top-25 university. I interviewed a few people last year, and recommended them all. The Asian students I recommended were not accepted, and looking back on it, I think it was the lack of being a well-rounded person. They did very well academically (which is why I recommended them) but weren't so well-rounded compared to the non-Asian student I interviewed (and who was accepted).

what school and specifically what was lacking in the Asian students?

NP. Not well rounded of course meaning they are geeks. Keep telling yourself that... Like Asians aren't able to figure out that you need to be "well rounded" to get accepted. This is why Harvard is 18% Asian and 11% international - mostly from Asia.

The problem is there are too many great Asian students, even if you look at well-rounded. China has such a large population so there are going to be, number-wise, a lot of highly-qualified students. At the same time, Harvard doesn't want their school to be 90% students from China and India, as it's not their mission. I'd say a top student in China has a harder time getting in than a top non-Asian student in the US.

Well, there was a lawsuit claiming that Harvard discriminated against Asian-Ameticans so it isn't a secret that it is harder to get accepted since these Asian students are competing against other stellar well rounded Asian students.

No, Harvard doesn't want to be like the top UC schools which are all majority Asian. You can say the same for top magnets like TJ and NYC magnets like Stuy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...On the other hand, I'm an alumni interviewer for my alma mater, which is a top-25 university. I interviewed a few people last year, and recommended them all. The Asian students I recommended were not accepted, and looking back on it, I think it was the lack of being a well-rounded person. They did very well academically (which is why I recommended them) but weren't so well-rounded compared to the non-Asian student I interviewed (and who was accepted).

what school and specifically what was lacking in the Asian students?

the PP who is an interviewer is an idiot. Schools don't look for 'well rounded' - they look to construct 'well rounded classes'.

What PP interviewer fails to mention is the truth, which is the asian kids he interviewed and recommended were competing for admission with other asian kids, not with the entire class. The non-asian kid likewise was competing within his/her bucket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Went to high school (one of the "W" schools in MoCo) with a bunch of kids like this. The Asian kids going after straight A's often burned out later. The B-average kids, usually white but also well-rounded, did pretty well career-wise. Most of the people at my 20-year reunion last year who owned successful businesses were the B-average kids. I think entrepreneurship requires a very broad range of skills.

No, they just like going to high school reunions. That proves nothing.

Possibly. I did ask about the A-students if they wernet' there, and none of them had started their own businesses. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I think it can speak to how A-students may not necessarily have as broad a range of skills/interests.

On the other hand, I'm an alumni interviewer for my alma mater, which is a top-25 university. I interviewed a few people last year, and recommended them all. The Asian students I recommended were not accepted, and looking back on it, I think it was the lack of being a well-rounded person. They did very well academically (which is why I recommended them) but weren't so well-rounded compared to the non-Asian student I interviewed (and who was accepted).

I'm white, but also was a geeky straight A student in high school. I went to an Ivy League university. My technical skills are such that I can earn 6 figures in a 9 to 5 job. No need to risk starting my own business, as most of those fail. Most people in my college class became doctors or lawyers. They command a high hourly wage, without much risk. They have had time to raise families etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...On the other hand, I'm an alumni interviewer for my alma mater, which is a top-25 university. I interviewed a few people last year, and recommended them all. The Asian students I recommended were not accepted, and looking back on it, I think it was the lack of being a well-rounded person. They did very well academically (which is why I recommended them) but weren't so well-rounded compared to the non-Asian student I interviewed (and who was accepted).

what school and specifically what was lacking in the Asian students?

NP. Not well rounded of course meaning they are geeks. Keep telling yourself that... Like Asians aren't able to figure out that you need to be "well rounded" to get accepted. This is why Harvard is 18% Asian and 11% international - mostly from Asia.

The problem is there are too many great Asian students, even if you look at well-rounded. China has such a large population so there are going to be, number-wise, a lot of highly-qualified students. At the same time, Harvard doesn't want their school to be 90% students from China and India, as it's not their mission. I'd say a top student in China has a harder time getting in than a top non-Asian student in the US.

Well, there was a lawsuit claiming that Harvard discriminated against Asian-Ameticans so it isn't a secret that it is harder to get accepted since these Asian students are competing against other stellar well rounded Asian students.

No, Harvard doesn't want to be like the top UC schools which are all majority Asian. You can say the same for top magnets like TJ and NYC magnets like Stuy.

Harvard is welcome to give back the millions it gets via federal funding for research and other activities each year if it wishes to engage in discrimination.

And by the way, asians aren't the most 'over represented' people at HYP. Jews are - though never brings that up. How the Jewish people managed to go from having horrific quotas against them to their current status is something I wish everyone else could learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is exactly why we go to private school. We want a more holistic, well-rounded experience. Yes, there is academic pressure but it's not like what we'd see at our public. Also, most parents at our school have the same mindset we do.

What mindset is that? Win the rat race without running the rat race?