NYT article on easing academic pressure and a cultural divide

[Anonymous]

... or the lagross team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, some weird Asian cheerleading going on in this thread.

Get out of the ghetto while you can

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, some weird Asian cheerleading going on in this thread.

I don't think it's Asian cheerleading, so much as annoyance at wealthy white parents that don't like the fact their little Johnnies and Susies are finding it too hard to compete, and the fact that white kids as a whole have more advantages in life than most other races to begin with, and here their parents are complaining.

Whose doing that? The wholemthing was spurred by Asian kids committing suicide in Palio Alto and a unusually large number of kids expressing suicidia thoughts in Princeton Junction. Are we to assume these kids should just be sacrificed to keep the system going?

I don't agree with the amount of pressure kids are under these days, but I agree with another PP.. if parents don't like it, move. That's what we did. I'm from the Palo Alto area. I have no doubt that some of these white, wealthy parents put their own kinds of pressure on their kids. There are plenty of white/wealthy kids that have taken drugs to help them cope with stress and pressure. Why didn't the that community sound off then? Why just now when Asian American kids are upping the competition?

Asian kids aren't "just now" upping the competition. There's been a large Asian population in this school system for decades. Clearly, quite a few posters feel it's better to let a few kids kill themselves rather than let them take one less AP, interesting to see where people's priorities lie.

In any case, my kids go to private school so I have no dog in this fight, seems like people are invested in making this a "white people can't stand how superior Asians are" thread, so have at it.

No one is forced to take APs. Hospitalize the kids making suicide threats. Get them some help for their depression and mental health issues. It will be more helpful than getting rid of APs, advanced classes, or whatever stressors in life that are causing these students to want to die. People who cannot handle a stressful academic load (or any other stressful life choices that makes them want to kill themselves) have the choice to not take a stressful academic load. But depressed people don't see that.

Getting rid of advanced classes for all instead of providing actual mental health services to those who need it is a cop out.

And it does sound like the school system is using the mental health issues of a few to get rid of a program that is 90% Asian. Not sure this would happen to a program that is 90% white (like the football team).

Exactly. There are kids getting concussions, taking steroids - which make them violent, etc.. for school sports. Why aren't the parents up in arms about getting rid of school sports? Oh, just because a few kids get hurt doesn't mean they should get rid of such a great program, right? Same thing.

These parents want academic rigor, but not too rigorous so that their kids can't compete or take part in other activities. Should I complain to our local school board that the entrance exams to the gifted programs are too rigorous, kids are stressed out trying to get in, so they should do away with it? We have the choice to not apply. They have the choice to not take the summer programs or be in the highest math class. Unlike in Korea or China, the result of one test doesn't determine your life path. Isn't this one of the great things about this country?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, some weird Asian cheerleading going on in this thread.

I don't think it's Asian cheerleading, so much as annoyance at wealthy white parents that don't like the fact their little Johnnies and Susies are finding it too hard to compete, and the fact that white kids as a whole have more advantages in life than most other races to begin with, and here their parents are complaining.

Whose doing that? The wholemthing was spurred by Asian kids committing suicide in Palio Alto and a unusually large number of kids expressing suicidia thoughts in Princeton Junction. Are we to assume these kids should just be sacrificed to keep the system going?

I don't agree with the amount of pressure kids are under these days, but I agree with another PP.. if parents don't like it, move. That's what we did. I'm from the Palo Alto area. I have no doubt that some of these white, wealthy parents put their own kinds of pressure on their kids. There are plenty of white/wealthy kids that have taken drugs to help them cope with stress and pressure. Why didn't the that community sound off then? Why just now when Asian American kids are upping the competition?

Asian kids aren't "just now" upping the competition. There's been a large Asian population in this school system for decades. Clearly, quite a few posters feel it's better to let a few kids kill themselves rather than let them take one less AP, interesting to see where people's priorities lie.

In any case, my kids go to private school so I have no dog in this fight, seems like people are invested in making this a "white people can't stand how superior Asians are" thread, so have at it.

No one is forced to take APs. Hospitalize the kids making suicide threats. Get them some help for their depression and mental health issues. It will be more helpful than getting rid of APs, advanced classes, or whatever stressors in life that are causing these students to want to die. People who cannot handle a stressful academic load (or any other stressful life choices that makes them want to kill themselves) have the choice to not take a stressful academic load. But depressed people don't see that.

Getting rid of advanced classes for all instead of providing actual mental health services to those who need it is a cop out.

And it does sound like the school system is using the mental health issues of a few to get rid of a program that is 90% Asian. Not sure this would happen to a program that is 90% white (like the football team).

Exactly. There are kids getting concussions, taking steroids - which make them violent, etc.. for school sports. Why aren't the parents up in arms about getting rid of school sports? Oh, just because a few kids get hurt doesn't mean they should get rid of such a great program, right? Same thing.

These parents want academic rigor, but not too rigorous so that their kids can't compete or take part in other activities. Should I complain to our local school board that the entrance exams to the gifted programs are too rigorous, kids are stressed out trying to get in, so they should do away with it? We have the choice to not apply. They have the choice to not take the summer programs or be in the highest math class. Unlike in Korea or China, the result of one test doesn't determine your life path. Isn't this one of the great things about this country?

I completely agree with both these PP and I am white. I think it's ridiculous to get rid of an advanced program that is 90% Asian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, some weird Asian cheerleading going on in this thread.

I don't think it's Asian cheerleading, so much as annoyance at wealthy white parents that don't like the fact their little Johnnies and Susies are finding it too hard to compete, and the fact that white kids as a whole have more advantages in life than most other races to begin with, and here their parents are complaining.

Whose doing that? The wholemthing was spurred by Asian kids committing suicide in Palio Alto and a unusually large number of kids expressing suicidia thoughts in Princeton Junction. Are we to assume these kids should just be sacrificed to keep the system going?

I don't agree with the amount of pressure kids are under these days, but I agree with another PP.. if parents don't like it, move. That's what we did. I'm from the Palo Alto area. I have no doubt that some of these white, wealthy parents put their own kinds of pressure on their kids. There are plenty of white/wealthy kids that have taken drugs to help them cope with stress and pressure. Why didn't the that community sound off then? Why just now when Asian American kids are upping the competition?

Asian kids aren't "just now" upping the competition. There's been a large Asian population in this school system for decades. Clearly, quite a few posters feel it's better to let a few kids kill themselves rather than let them take one less AP, interesting to see where people's priorities lie.

In any case, my kids go to private school so I have no dog in this fight, seems like people are invested in making this a "white people can't stand how superior Asians are" thread, so have at it.

No one is forced to take APs. Hospitalize the kids making suicide threats. Get them some help for their depression and mental health issues. It will be more helpful than getting rid of APs, advanced classes, or whatever stressors in life that are causing these students to want to die. People who cannot handle a stressful academic load (or any other stressful life choices that makes them want to kill themselves) have the choice to not take a stressful academic load. But depressed people don't see that.

Getting rid of advanced classes for all instead of providing actual mental health services to those who need it is a cop out.

And it does sound like the school system is using the mental health issues of a few to get rid of a program that is 90% Asian. Not sure this would happen to a program that is 90% white (like the football team).

Exactly. There are kids getting concussions, taking steroids - which make them violent, etc.. for school sports. Why aren't the parents up in arms about getting rid of school sports? Oh, just because a few kids get hurt doesn't mean they should get rid of such a great program, right? Same thing.

These parents want academic rigor, but not too rigorous so that their kids can't compete or take part in other activities. Should I complain to our local school board that the entrance exams to the gifted programs are too rigorous, kids are stressed out trying to get in, so they should do away with it? We have the choice to not apply. They have the choice to not take the summer programs or be in the highest math class. Unlike in Korea or China, the result of one test doesn't determine your life path. Isn't this one of the great things about this country?

I completely agree with both these PP and I am white. I think it's ridiculous to get rid of an advanced program that is 90% Asian.

They didn't get rid of it, they pushed back the starting year from fourth to sixth, same as has been done in many other districts that are majority white. If you want to be a victim, always a way to make it so, I guess.

[Anonymous]

I live near Palo Alto. In PA's case, the suicides let happening and the district blamed it on the parents and wouldn't even put a fence around the railroad tracks that border one of the high schools. Meanwhile the district created a few rules like that teachers can't give homework during finals, but those rules aren't enforced.

I don't know why pp thinks you can test in to advanced or honors classes later - you can't. It is tracked from before middle school.

I don't agree with cancelling gate classes but the gate classes should be tracking actual gifted kids. Not just looking for who went to kumon after school. I can't tell from this if it was actual gifted services or not.

But at least the school district did something! The Palo Alto suicide problem has been going on at least 8 years and is mostly dealt with by finger pointing. We are still having them.

Supposedly there was a study that from decision to action it was 7 minutes. 7 minutes! As a parent that scares the hell out me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:... Unlike in Korea or China, the result of one test doesn't determine your life path...

is it still the case today though, especially korea? hard to believe when their products/innovations rivals apple's

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child is very young so no experience with academic pressure, but an interesting article. It describes a cultural divide between white American parents who feel the competitive atmosphere in their NJ school district is toxic, and immigrant parents who value the competitive atmosphere. Not sure what I think. What say you, DCUM?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/26/nyregion/reforms-to-ease-students-stress-divide-a-new-jersey-school-district.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share

Its kind of interesting, but its not telling me anything I haven't read before, say in the Education section of the LA Times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:... Unlike in Korea or China, the result of one test doesn't determine your life path...

is it still the case today though, especially korea? hard to believe when their products/innovations rivals apple's

Yes, it is. The problem is that there are only a handful of conglomerates (called chaebols there) that provide almost life-time, good paying jobs. And if you go to one of only a handful of the top universities there, you are almost guaranteed to get a job at one of the conglomerates, or a cushy government job. It is *very* difficult to go up in the food chain without having gone to one of these prestigious universities.

Here, you can go to a middling university and still end up doing really well in life by working hard, and maybe with a bit of luck sometimes. It's not so easy to do this in Korea. This is one of the reasons why so many immigrants like America. They like the "if you work really hard, you can make it" mantra. So, that's why a lot of the Asian parents pressure their kids. It's not because they don't care about their kids. Quite the opposite... they want their kids to do better than them, or have job security/guarantees, and they believe that you have to work really hard to achieve this because that's how it is in their home country. They also know that Asians are a small minority in this country; Asians don't hold any of the political or corporate power. So, to do well, you have to work hard.

This was an interesting piece I read about this topic:

http://nypost.com/2015/12/29/from-nyc-to-harvard-the-war-on-asian-success/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: They also know that Asians are a small minority in this country; Asians don't hold any of the political or corporate power.

Actually, Asian-Americans are the highest-income, best-educated and fastest-growing racial group in the United States. And yes, Asian-Americans hold both political and corporate power.

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/06/19/the-rise-of-asian-americans/

Some interesting facts:

26% of Asian-American adults were born in the US; 65% of these adults say they feel like "a typical American".
Among Asian-American adults who immigrated to the US, 50% have a bachelor's degree or more (about the same as Asian-American adults born in the US) and 47.5% speak English less than "very well".
Just over 60% of Asian-Americans say that being Asian-American neither hurts nor helps with admission into schools and colleges, finding a job, or getting a promotion.
65%
Median household income and percent with bachelor's degrees is highest among Indian-Americans ($88,000 and 70%, respectively). In comparison, median household income among Korean-Americans is $50,000, and only 26% of Vietnamese-Americans have a bachelor's degree.
The six largest groups of Asian-Americans are Chinese (23%), Filipino (20%), Indian (18%), Vietnamese (10%), Korean (10%), and Japanese (8%).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: They also know that Asians are a small minority in this country; Asians don't hold any of the political or corporate power.

Actually, Asian-Americans are the highest-income, best-educated and fastest-growing racial group in the United States. And yes, Asian-Americans hold both political and corporate power.

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/06/19/the-rise-of-asian-americans/

Some interesting facts:

26% of Asian-American adults were born in the US; 65% of these adults say they feel like "a typical American".
Among Asian-American adults who immigrated to the US, 50% have a bachelor's degree or more (about the same as Asian-American adults born in the US) and 47.5% speak English less than "very well".
Just over 60% of Asian-Americans say that being Asian-American neither hurts nor helps with admission into schools and colleges, finding a job, or getting a promotion.
65%
Median household income and percent with bachelor's degrees is highest among Indian-Americans ($88,000 and 70%, respectively). In comparison, median household income among Korean-Americans is $50,000, and only 26% of Vietnamese-Americans have a bachelor's degree.
The six largest groups of Asian-Americans are Chinese (23%), Filipino (20%), Indian (18%), Vietnamese (10%), Korean (10%), and Japanese (8%).

Recognize that when a minority group does very well, whites will lose interest in that group. When nonJewish whites saw Jews doing well, they felt threatened and responded with quotas at some Ivies. Many, if not most,whites are racist in the sense that they believe that some groups cannot compete with them intellectually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Recognize that when a minority group does very well, whites will lose interest in that group. When nonJewish whites saw Jews doing well, they felt threatened and responded with quotas at some Ivies. Many, if not most,whites are racist in the sense that they believe that some groups cannot compete with them intellectually.

Your first sentence contradicts your second sentence.

[Anonymous]

And yes, Asian-Americans hold both political and corporate power.

Actually, no, they really don't outside of some heavily asian precincts in northern california.

"Holding corporate power" is also a matter of definition. The number of Fortune 500 CEOs who are Asian hasn't climbed dramatically, for example. http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/diversity_among_ceos.html

No one is denying there are more Asians in the US and that some Asians make good entrepreneurs. But running corporate America, they are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And yes, Asian-Americans hold both political and corporate power.

Actually, no, they really don't outside of some heavily asian precincts in northern california.

"Holding corporate power" is also a matter of definition. The number of Fortune 500 CEOs who are Asian hasn't climbed dramatically, for example. http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/diversity_among_ceos.html

No one is denying there are more Asians in the US and that some Asians make good entrepreneurs. But running corporate America, they are not.

Let's start with Governor Bobby Jindal and Governor Nikki Haley, neither of whom are current or soon-to-be former governors of California.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And yes, Asian-Americans hold both political and corporate power.

Actually, no, they really don't outside of some heavily asian precincts in northern california.

"Holding corporate power" is also a matter of definition. The number of Fortune 500 CEOs who are Asian hasn't climbed dramatically, for example. http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/diversity_among_ceos.html

No one is denying there are more Asians in the US and that some Asians make good entrepreneurs. But running corporate America, they are not.

Let's start with Governor Bobby Jindal and Governor Nikki Haley, neither of whom are current or soon-to-be former governors of California.

then let's list all the Asian senators, and especially those who lead the most important House and Senate committees. Don't forget the various Senate leader and House speakers who have been Asian. Next, let us not forget the various Asian serious presidential candidates and VP running mates. And of course all the other governors who came before Jindhal and Haley. I actually lived in Washington state when Gary Locke was Gov., and he was a fine governor. But, that was a decade ago ....