Why Asian American kids excel. It’s not ‘Tiger Moms.’

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've got mixed Asian/White kids, live in a community with lots of Asians, and I've had a good long look behind the facade.

They are expected to get jobs that pay well and have higher status, and are strongly discouraged from pursuing studies in other fields, even if it's their dream.

If they don't do well, they're not just letting themselves down, they're letting the whole family down, including generations of ancestors. And they will shame their parents, because they'll make them look bad to the community. They'll shame their community to outsiders. Is that enough pressure?

Parents do say commonly things like, "Only an A minus? What happened? Why not an A?" and the kids say those things to each other and to themselves. I've heard it plenty.

Shame. Shame is a big one. If you haven't been raised in a shaming culture, you won't get how powerful it is. You're invalidated and shamed for everything you do and feel, and who you feel you are, if it does not agree with the elders' ideas of who you should be, what you should do, and how you're supposed to feel. And the shame has no boundaries. Your shame as a child is heaped on your parents and family.

Yes, there are a lot of success stories. What you will not be allowed to see, because outward appearances mean everything, are the casualties. I've heard lots of stories and witnessed lots of misery and dysfunction. You want to study BPD, get deep into some Asian communities. It's rampant.

What you wrote is VERY sad. I certainly hope there will be enough mental health counselors for this population.

Actually, the above is an exaggeration. Sure Asians seek excellence but many Asian parents are nurturing and encouraging of their children. Many times, Asian kids will try to excel academically without much "shaming" by the parents. Many Asian parents are grateful their kids do not get in trouble, go out partying every week, bully other kids etc.

[Anonymous]

I am an Asian American parent and just recently used the word shameful to my kids because one of their non-Asian neighborhood friends came over the day after my daughter's bday party that he could not attend since he was out of town on a family trip, rang the doorbell, asked if the kids could play. They were not home and just as I was shutting the door, he says, "Oh where is my goody bag?" I looked at him and told him that the party was yesterday and closed the door." It didn't end there, and got worse. Even his parent got involved.....wth??? In any case, I let my kids know that if they ever just went up to somebody else or their house and just started asking for things like a goody bag, as if they are entitled, then that would be shaming our family, especially me as the parent. So yes, I am an Asian American and use the word shameful. When it comes to academics, I tell my kids to do their best. I want them to understand that things don't come easily. You have to practice, work hard, and want it. If you don't do what it takes, then don't be surprised at the outcome. And if you fail or make mistakes, learn from them. Don't cry or get all down on yourself. These are things to learn as early on as possible. I never want then to think they are going to school for me. They understand that this is their life. I am here for help, guidance and support, but this is for them.

[Anonymous]

Most Americans don't understand the critical importance of a child's first years of life. They even think babies and toddlers "can't communicate." That's their excuse for their children biting each other. They say it's "normal" behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most Americans don't understand the critical importance of a child's first years of life. They even think babies and toddlers "can't communicate." That's their excuse for their children biting each other. They say it's "normal" behavior.

Now you are offending all of us born in the U.S..... Are you a foreign national???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wasn't there a poster on this thread who thought that Asian-Americans were only spectators to racism against blacks, not participants? Where is that poster now?

I am still waiting to hear of an Asian-American cop shooting an AA victim.

[Anonymous]

I am an Asian American parent and just recently used the word shameful to my kids because one of their non-Asian neighborhood friends came over the day after my daughter's bday party that he could not attend since he was out of town on a family trip, rang the doorbell, asked if the kids could play. They were not home and just as I was shutting the door, he says, "Oh where is my goody bag?" I looked at him and told him that the party was yesterday and closed the door." It didn't end there, and got worse. Even his parent got involved.....wth??? In any case, I let my kids know that if they ever just went up to somebody else or their house and just started asking for things like a goody bag, as if they are entitled, then that would be shaming our family, especially me as the parent. So yes, I am an Asian American and use the word shameful. When it comes to academics, I tell my kids to do their best. I want them to understand that things don't come easily. You have to practice, work hard, and want it. If you don't do what it takes, then don't be surprised at the outcome. And if you fail or make mistakes, learn from them. Don't cry or get all down on yourself. These are things to learn as early on as possible. I never want then to think they are going to school for me. They understand that this is their life. I am here for help, guidance and support, but this is for them.

This is not an American thing, it is a parenting issue. I would be appalled if one of my kids did that. I do have a question, though, does your child write "thank you" notes? Does your child take multiple samples at Costco while others are waiting? Take a box to a community barbeque and load up before everyone has served themselves?

We can all stereotype. I have one more question: did the child give your kid a birthday present? If he did, I would have given him a goody bag--but I agree that it is rude to ask for one. When my kid was asked to a birthday party and couldn't go for a reason, we normally gave a birthday present, anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most Americans don't understand the critical importance of a child's first years of life. They even think babies and toddlers "can't communicate." That's their excuse for their children biting each other. They say it's "normal" behavior.

Now you are offending all of us born in the U.S..... Are you a foreign national???

He probably means white people.

[Anonymous]

Do you think that those kids (regardless of race) who do not succeed lack brainpower?

Do you think low scores in racial groups due to the kids not being bright?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The correct (and non-PC answer) is that it probably has a lot to do with genes.

That is not correct, but you have moron genes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The correct (and non-PC answer) is that it probably has a lot to do with genes.

That is not correct, but you have moron genes.

You can't ignore the evidence to the contrary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wasn't there a poster on this thread who thought that Asian-Americans were only spectators to racism against blacks, not participants? Where is that poster now?

I am still waiting to hear of an Asian-American cop shooting an AA victim.

There is more to racism than police shootings. Truly, there is.

I am curious about how many Asian-American police officers there are, but I can't find any good national numbers. I wonder what the Chinese-American and Vietnamese-American immigrants in Los Angeles who were the subject of the study in the OP would say if one of their children became a police officer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wasn't there a poster on this thread who thought that Asian-Americans were only spectators to racism against blacks, not participants? Where is that poster now?

I am still waiting to hear of an Asian-American cop shooting an AA victim.

There is more to racism than police shootings. Truly, there is.

I am curious about how many Asian-American police officers there are, but I can't find any good national numbers. I wonder what the Chinese-American and Vietnamese-American immigrants in Los Angeles who were the subject of the study in the OP would say if one of their children became a police officer.

There is an institutionalized discrimination in the "National Security/Law Enforcement" system against Asian Americans. I have an Asian friend who is in "law enforcement" and he has recounted many stories of stereotyping/discrimination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wasn't there a poster on this thread who thought that Asian-Americans were only spectators to racism against blacks, not participants? Where is that poster now?

I am still waiting to hear of an Asian-American cop shooting an AA victim.

There is more to racism than police shootings. Truly, there is.

I am curious about how many Asian-American police officers there are, but I can't find any good national numbers. I wonder what the Chinese-American and Vietnamese-American immigrants in Los Angeles who were the subject of the study in the OP would say if one of their children became a police officer.

There is an institutionalized discrimination in the "National Security/Law Enforcement" system against Asian Americans. I have an Asian friend who is in "law enforcement" and he has recounted many stories of stereotyping/discrimination.

Yes, I am sure that this is true. However, I don't think much of the logic in the argument, "It's not possible for me to be racist towards other people, because other people are racist against me!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wasn't there a poster on this thread who thought that Asian-Americans were only spectators to racism against blacks, not participants? Where is that poster now?

I am still waiting to hear of an Asian-American cop shooting an AA victim.

There is more to racism than police shootings. Truly, there is.

I am curious about how many Asian-American police officers there are, but I can't find any good national numbers. I wonder what the Chinese-American and Vietnamese-American immigrants in Los Angeles who were the subject of the study in the OP would say if one of their children became a police officer.

There is an institutionalized discrimination in the "National Security/Law Enforcement" system against Asian Americans. I have an Asian friend who is in "law enforcement" and he has recounted many stories of stereotyping/discrimination.

Yes, I am sure that this is true. However, I don't think much of the logic in the argument, "It's not possible for me to be racist towards other people, because other people are racist against me!"

Who said anything about Asians being racist towards other people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We've got mixed Asian/White kids, live in a community with lots of Asians, and I've had a good long look behind the facade.

They are expected to get jobs that pay well and have higher status, and are strongly discouraged from pursuing studies in other fields, even if it's their dream.

If they don't do well, they're not just letting themselves down, they're letting the whole family down, including generations of ancestors. And they will shame their parents, because they'll make them look bad to the community. They'll shame their community to outsiders. Is that enough pressure?

Parents do say commonly things like, "Only an A minus? What happened? Why not an A?" and the kids say those things to each other and to themselves. I've heard it plenty.

Shame. Shame is a big one. If you haven't been raised in a shaming culture, you won't get how powerful it is. You're invalidated and shamed for everything you do and feel, and who you feel you are, if it does not agree with the elders' ideas of who you should be, what you should do, and how you're supposed to feel. And the shame has no boundaries. Your shame as a child is heaped on your parents and family.

Yes, there are a lot of success stories. What you will not be allowed to see, because outward appearances mean everything, are the casualties. I've heard lots of stories and witnessed lots of misery and dysfunction. You want to study BPD, get deep into some Asian communities. It's rampant.

+1

I'm a white person married to an Asian and raising our biracial kids. Somehow, I managed to succeed and be very motivated (full academic scholarships to Ivy undergrad and grad, great career) while still having a wonderful, supportive, and happy family growing up. DH on the other hand was raised in the traditional shame culture and suffers from confidence and self-esteem issues. He also has a terrible relationship with his parents, whom he resents to this day. You don't have to model a shame culture to help your kids succeed. There's no one right way to support their success.

One more thing -- I'm not sure saying someone is a doctor or dentist or whatnot is the same thing as saying they are successful. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have a doctor who went into the field because of passion for medicine and helping others than for prestige! I think there's a lot of conflation of monetary compensation with success in the Asian community. I think remuneration is part of success, but personal fulfillment has got to be in there, too.

(FWIW, in case someone wants to cry sour grapes, I'm in tech and DH is a partner, so we're well-remunerated, too. But I am really enjoying my career, while DH is unhappy, in part because he mostly chose his career for prestige the way I think many Asians consciously or unconsciously do.)