Why Asian American kids excel. It’s not ‘Tiger Moms.’

[Anonymous]

^ also just to annoy the hell out of you, from now on i am going to not use caps even when typing on my computer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Shame. Shame is a big one. If you haven't been raised in a shaming culture, you won't get how powerful it is. You're invalidated and shamed for everything you do and feel, and who you feel you are, if it does not agree with the elders' ideas of who you should be, what you should do, and how you're supposed to feel. And the shame has no boundaries. Your shame as a child is heaped on your parents and family.

I was raised in a shaming culture. While it has its negative effects, it also has it's positive. I always know what's right and what's wrong, I always try to do what's right and not what's easy.

I'm at awe at American kids failing without even as much as a blink. I was shocked when I learned how easily many American kids drop classes at school, classes that were paid for by parents without even feeling a little remorse. In my home country you weren't allowed to drop anything, and if you failed if was a great shame. So you learned not to fail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Shame. Shame is a big one. If you haven't been raised in a shaming culture, you won't get how powerful it is. You're invalidated and shamed for everything you do and feel, and who you feel you are, if it does not agree with the elders' ideas of who you should be, what you should do, and how you're supposed to feel. And the shame has no boundaries. Your shame as a child is heaped on your parents and family.

I was raised in a shaming culture. While it has its negative effects, it also has it's positive. I always know what's right and what's wrong, I always try to do what's right and not what's easy.

I'm at awe at American kids failing without even as much as a blink. I was shocked when I learned how easily many American kids drop classes at school, classes that were paid for by parents without even feeling a little remorse. In my home country you weren't allowed to drop anything, and if you failed if was a great shame. So you learned not to fail.

Most of the times failure is due to a lack of effort. I like this part about the Asian mentality that hard work and effort will result in achievement and success. It levels the playing field. Not one of my Asian friends ever say that their kids are "Bright". Why? Mainly because a bright kid who does not put in effort does not go far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Shame. Shame is a big one. If you haven't been raised in a shaming culture, you won't get how powerful it is. You're invalidated and shamed for everything you do and feel, and who you feel you are, if it does not agree with the elders' ideas of who you should be, what you should do, and how you're supposed to feel. And the shame has no boundaries. Your shame as a child is heaped on your parents and family.

I was raised in a shaming culture. While it has its negative effects, it also has it's positive. I always know what's right and what's wrong, I always try to do what's right and not what's easy.

I'm at awe at American kids failing without even as much as a blink. I was shocked when I learned how easily many American kids drop classes at school, classes that were paid for by parents without even feeling a little remorse. In my home country you weren't allowed to drop anything, and if you failed if was a great shame. So you learned not to fail.

Most of the times failure is due to a lack of effort. I like this part about the Asian mentality that hard work and effort will result in achievement and success. It levels the playing field. Not one of my Asian friends ever say that their kids are "Bright". Why? Mainly because a bright kid who does not put in effort does not go far.

I am an Asian mom. I tell my kids they are bright, but they still have try their best at whatever they do exactly because of what you stated. I have told them that if they are smart but lazy, that won't cut it.

I think one of the negative things about the Asian culture is that they hardly ever praise their kids. They are pretty stingy with praising their kids. I don't think that's emotionally or mentally healthy for the kids either. Need to find a happy medium that works for your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The distinction between Google and google is kind of significant due to the fact that company Google is well-known throughout the world and the term google is also well-known as in I am going to google it. Googler is also well-known.

guess what... this is a public forum, not the frickin harvard law review. it's annoying to type on my tablet using the caps. so i don't. i also hate using the question mark.

i also know what a googler is.. because, well, i am one.

You should have used "Google" especially if you are a googler as you say you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The distinction between Google and google is kind of significant due to the fact that company Google is well-known throughout the world and the term google is also well-known as in I am going to google it. Googler is also well-known.

guess what... this is a public forum, not the frickin harvard law review. it's annoying to type on my tablet using the caps. so i don't. i also hate using the question mark.

i also know what a googler is.. because, well, i am one.

You should have used "Google" especially if you are a googler as you say you are.

+1 I am not a programmer but wouldn't 1 comma or 1 semi-colon etc. potentially create a huge problem in coding?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Here is the abstract:

The status attainment model highlights the role of family socioeconomic status (SES) in the intergenerational reproduction of educational attainment; however, the model falls short in predicting the educational outcomes of the children of Asian immigrants, whose attainment exceeds that which would have been predicted based on family SES alone. On the other hand, the cultural capital model gives primacy to the role of middle-class cultural capital in reproducing advantage, but neglects contextual factors outside the family. We fill a theoretical and empirical niche by introducing a model of cultural frames to explain how the children of immigrants whose families exhibit low SES and lack middle-class cultural capital attain exceptional educational outcomes. Based on in-depth interviews with adult children of Chinese and Vietnamese immigrants randomly drawn from the survey of Immigration and Intergenerational Mobility in Metropolitan Los Angeles, we show that Chinese and Vietnamese immigrant parents and their children use ethnicity as a resource to construct and support a strict “success frame” that helps the poor and working class override their disadvantages. However, there are unintended consequences to adopting such a strict success frame: those who do not meet its exacting tenets feel like ethnic outliers, and as a result, they distance themselves from coethnics and from their ethnic identities because they link achievement with ethnicity. We conclude by underscoring the benefits of decoupling race/ethnicity and achievement for all groups.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12552-014-9112-7

This is a good argument for the discussion we had earlier on "black people fail because they're poor." See, other people are poor, yet succeed.

So, basically, if a one group of poor people were a different group of poor people, with a different history, culture, perception by general society, and access to human and financial capital, then they too could succeed like that different group of poor people!

(By the way, there are many black people who are not poor. True fact!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The distinction between Google and google is kind of significant due to the fact that company Google is well-known throughout the world and the term google is also well-known as in I am going to google it. Googler is also well-known.

guess what... this is a public forum, not the frickin harvard law review. it's annoying to type on my tablet using the caps. so i don't. i also hate using the question mark.

i also know what a googler is.. because, well, i am one.

You should have used "Google" especially if you are a googler as you say you are.

why should i have used google with the the init cap on an anonymous forum that is littered with grammatical errors. as i said, i don't like to use caps on my tablet. and true to my word, now that i am typing on my laptop, i still won't use the caps just to annoy you.

i find that people who really have nothing else intelligent to contribute because they can't give a good rebuttal will pick on some grammatical issue with the previous post. you add absolutely zero value to the discussion. if your post was funny at least people could have a good laugh. but your post, picking at not capitalizing is just pathetic.

and at work, as a googler, sometimes in my email i will write google without the cap. my coworkers do the same. it's not that much of an issue. if i am writing an external communication or presentation, yes, i use the cap. but seeing how, again, this is an anonymous forum, only people who have nothing else to contribute will pick on these little things that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Here is the abstract:

The status attainment model highlights the role of family socioeconomic status (SES) in the intergenerational reproduction of educational attainment; however, the model falls short in predicting the educational outcomes of the children of Asian immigrants, whose attainment exceeds that which would have been predicted based on family SES alone. On the other hand, the cultural capital model gives primacy to the role of middle-class cultural capital in reproducing advantage, but neglects contextual factors outside the family. We fill a theoretical and empirical niche by introducing a model of cultural frames to explain how the children of immigrants whose families exhibit low SES and lack middle-class cultural capital attain exceptional educational outcomes. Based on in-depth interviews with adult children of Chinese and Vietnamese immigrants randomly drawn from the survey of Immigration and Intergenerational Mobility in Metropolitan Los Angeles, we show that Chinese and Vietnamese immigrant parents and their children use ethnicity as a resource to construct and support a strict “success frame” that helps the poor and working class override their disadvantages. However, there are unintended consequences to adopting such a strict success frame: those who do not meet its exacting tenets feel like ethnic outliers, and as a result, they distance themselves from coethnics and from their ethnic identities because they link achievement with ethnicity. We conclude by underscoring the benefits of decoupling race/ethnicity and achievement for all groups.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12552-014-9112-7

This is a good argument for the discussion we had earlier on "black people fail because they're poor." See, other people are poor, yet succeed.

So, basically, if a one group of poor people were a different group of poor people, with a different history, culture, perception by general society, and access to human and financial capital, then they too could succeed like that different group of poor people!

(By the way, there are many black people who are not poor. True fact!)

Not only the other people were poor, but they had a language barrier to overcome which black people didn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Not only the other people were poor, but they had a language barrier to overcome which black people didn't.

As most people realize by the time they reach adulthood, there are many different possible obstacles in life. Some people face one set of obstacles, other people face another set of obstacles, and smart people realize that it's silly to sit around saying, "I faced obstacles, and I made it, so if you didn't, it must be your fault."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Here is the abstract:

The status attainment model highlights the role of family socioeconomic status (SES) in the intergenerational reproduction of educational attainment; however, the model falls short in predicting the educational outcomes of the children of Asian immigrants, whose attainment exceeds that which would have been predicted based on family SES alone. On the other hand, the cultural capital model gives primacy to the role of middle-class cultural capital in reproducing advantage, but neglects contextual factors outside the family. We fill a theoretical and empirical niche by introducing a model of cultural frames to explain how the children of immigrants whose families exhibit low SES and lack middle-class cultural capital attain exceptional educational outcomes. Based on in-depth interviews with adult children of Chinese and Vietnamese immigrants randomly drawn from the survey of Immigration and Intergenerational Mobility in Metropolitan Los Angeles, we show that Chinese and Vietnamese immigrant parents and their children use ethnicity as a resource to construct and support a strict “success frame” that helps the poor and working class override their disadvantages. However, there are unintended consequences to adopting such a strict success frame: those who do not meet its exacting tenets feel like ethnic outliers, and as a result, they distance themselves from coethnics and from their ethnic identities because they link achievement with ethnicity. We conclude by underscoring the benefits of decoupling race/ethnicity and achievement for all groups.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12552-014-9112-7

This is a good argument for the discussion we had earlier on "black people fail because they're poor." See, other people are poor, yet succeed.

So, basically, if a one group of poor people were a different group of poor people, with a different history, culture, perception by general society, and access to human and financial capital, then they too could succeed like that different group of poor people!

(By the way, there are many black people who are not poor. True fact!)

Not only the other people were poor, but they had a language barrier to overcome which black people didn't.

On top of these, they also face discrimination in college and graduate school admission and black people get preferential treatment.

[Anonymous]

Wasn't there a poster on this thread who thought that Asian-Americans were only spectators to racism against blacks, not participants? Where is that poster now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Here is the abstract:

The status attainment model highlights the role of family socioeconomic status (SES) in the intergenerational reproduction of educational attainment; however, the model falls short in predicting the educational outcomes of the children of Asian immigrants, whose attainment exceeds that which would have been predicted based on family SES alone. On the other hand, the cultural capital model gives primacy to the role of middle-class cultural capital in reproducing advantage, but neglects contextual factors outside the family. We fill a theoretical and empirical niche by introducing a model of cultural frames to explain how the children of immigrants whose families exhibit low SES and lack middle-class cultural capital attain exceptional educational outcomes. Based on in-depth interviews with adult children of Chinese and Vietnamese immigrants randomly drawn from the survey of Immigration and Intergenerational Mobility in Metropolitan Los Angeles, we show that Chinese and Vietnamese immigrant parents and their children use ethnicity as a resource to construct and support a strict “success frame” that helps the poor and working class override their disadvantages. However, there are unintended consequences to adopting such a strict success frame: those who do not meet its exacting tenets feel like ethnic outliers, and as a result, they distance themselves from coethnics and from their ethnic identities because they link achievement with ethnicity. We conclude by underscoring the benefits of decoupling race/ethnicity and achievement for all groups.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12552-014-9112-7

This is a good argument for the discussion we had earlier on "black people fail because they're poor." See, other people are poor, yet succeed.

So, basically, if a one group of poor people were a different group of poor people, with a different history, culture, perception by general society, and access to human and financial capital, then they too could succeed like that different group of poor people!

(By the way, there are many black people who are not poor. True fact!)

Not only the other people were poor, but they had a language barrier to overcome which black people didn't.

On top of these, they also face discrimination in college and graduate school admission and black people get preferential treatment.

On top of these, they also face "bamboo ceiling" whereas black folks are actively recruited by the "diversity" programs of many companies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've got mixed Asian/White kids, live in a community with lots of Asians, and I've had a good long look behind the facade.

They are expected to get jobs that pay well and have higher status, and are strongly discouraged from pursuing studies in other fields, even if it's their dream.

If they don't do well, they're not just letting themselves down, they're letting the whole family down, including generations of ancestors. And they will shame their parents, because they'll make them look bad to the community. They'll shame their community to outsiders. Is that enough pressure?

Parents do say commonly things like, "Only an A minus? What happened? Why not an A?" and the kids say those things to each other and to themselves. I've heard it plenty.

Shame. Shame is a big one. If you haven't been raised in a shaming culture, you won't get how powerful it is. You're invalidated and shamed for everything you do and feel, and who you feel you are, if it does not agree with the elders' ideas of who you should be, what you should do, and how you're supposed to feel. And the shame has no boundaries. Your shame as a child is heaped on your parents and family.

Yes, there are a lot of success stories. What you will not be allowed to see, because outward appearances mean everything, are the casualties. I've heard lots of stories and witnessed lots of misery and dysfunction. You want to study BPD, get deep into some Asian communities. It's rampant.

What you wrote is VERY sad. I certainly hope there will be enough mental health counselors for this population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As most people realize by the time they reach adulthood, there are many different possible obstacles in life. Some people face one set of obstacles, other people face another set of obstacles, and smart people realize that it's silly to sit around saying, "I faced obstacles, and I made it, so if you didn't, it must be your fault."

Yes. If there is a will there is a way.