Is there any objective source of information on light drinking during pregnancy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am anti incubator status within reason. There is zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to suggest that a very occasional glass of wine causes any issues. So I am deeply opposed to giving anyone crap for that.

Modern parenthood is measured by pain. How much did you sacrifice/give up/suffer for your child. The more you did the better you are as a parent or something.

I do not drink often when pregnant and never more than a glass. Anyone who wants to give me a hard time about that can give me a report on everything they do day in and day out and see if they meet all the recommendations.

In the absence of randomized controlled studies, there is zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to show that a very occaisional glass of wine DOESN'T cause any issues.

Sure. There is also zero evidence that eating ice cream doesn't cause any issues. Or Basically anything. Because its considered unethical to do those kind of randomized controlled studies on pregnant women.

So in the absence of quality medical research I am going to use my best judgement based on thousands of years of human reproduction and come down on the belief that generally most things in moderation, especially very low frequency/exposure, are fine.

Stop eating processed foods and sugar if you're that worried about ever doing the slightest bit of damage to your baby!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean... do you really NEED to drink, considering what the potential risks are? It's not like you're abstaining for life. It's less than a year.

Unfortunately, yes, these women REALLY need to drink. Even if it's just really, truly, OMG occasionally. They really need that drink. It's sad.

Meh I'm one of them and I don't. I hardly ever have it and even when I do I sometimes don't finish it. I just refuse to live my life never doing anything that could ever potentially cause trouble because that is a depressing slippery slope to live on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am anti incubator status within reason. There is zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to suggest that a very occasional glass of wine causes any issues. So I am deeply opposed to giving anyone crap for that.

Modern parenthood is measured by pain. How much did you sacrifice/give up/suffer for your child. The more you did the better you are as a parent or something.

I do not drink often when pregnant and never more than a glass. Anyone who wants to give me a hard time about that can give me a report on everything they do day in and day out and see if they meet all the recommendations.

In the absence of randomized controlled studies, there is zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to show that a very occaisional glass of wine DOESN'T cause any issues.

Sure. There is also zero evidence that eating ice cream doesn't cause any issues. Or Basically anything. Because its considered unethical to do those kind of randomized controlled studies on pregnant women.

So in the absence of quality medical research I am going to use my best judgement based on thousands of years of human reproduction and come down on the belief that generally most things in moderation, especially very low frequency/exposure, are fine.

Stop eating processed foods and sugar if you're that worried about ever doing the slightest bit of damage to your baby!

You’re self absorbed lush. I feel sorry for your child. He or she deserves a parent that won’t put them in harms way for a moment of alcohol induced bliss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am anti incubator status within reason. There is zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to suggest that a very occasional glass of wine causes any issues. So I am deeply opposed to giving anyone crap for that.

Modern parenthood is measured by pain. How much did you sacrifice/give up/suffer for your child. The more you did the better you are as a parent or something.

I do not drink often when pregnant and never more than a glass. Anyone who wants to give me a hard time about that can give me a report on everything they do day in and day out and see if they meet all the recommendations.

In the absence of randomized controlled studies, there is zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to show that a very occaisional glass of wine DOESN'T cause any issues.

Sure. There is also zero evidence that eating ice cream doesn't cause any issues. Or Basically anything. Because its considered unethical to do those kind of randomized controlled studies on pregnant women.

So in the absence of quality medical research I am going to use my best judgement based on thousands of years of human reproduction and come down on the belief that generally most things in moderation, especially very low frequency/exposure, are fine.

Stop eating processed foods and sugar if you're that worried about ever doing the slightest bit of damage to your baby!

You’re self absorbed lush. I feel sorry for your child. He or she deserves a parent that won’t put them in harms way for a moment of alcohol induced bliss.

haha You crack me up. Women like you who bitch about other women having wine during pregnancy are the same women who never exercise or think nothing of eating a ton of of food (including junk food). Hilarious. I feel sorry for your child who is probably obese and afraid of his own shadow due to your helicoptering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am anti incubator status within reason. There is zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to suggest that a very occasional glass of wine causes any issues. So I am deeply opposed to giving anyone crap for that.

Modern parenthood is measured by pain. How much did you sacrifice/give up/suffer for your child. The more you did the better you are as a parent or something.

I do not drink often when pregnant and never more than a glass. Anyone who wants to give me a hard time about that can give me a report on everything they do day in and day out and see if they meet all the recommendations.

In the absence of randomized controlled studies, there is zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to show that a very occaisional glass of wine DOESN'T cause any issues.

Sure. There is also zero evidence that eating ice cream doesn't cause any issues. Or Basically anything. Because its considered unethical to do those kind of randomized controlled studies on pregnant women.

So in the absence of quality medical research I am going to use my best judgement based on thousands of years of human reproduction and come down on the belief that generally most things in moderation, especially very low frequency/exposure, are fine.

Stop eating processed foods and sugar if you're that worried about ever doing the slightest bit of damage to your baby!

You’re self absorbed lush. I feel sorry for your child. He or she deserves a parent that won’t put them in harms way for a moment of alcohol induced bliss.

haha You crack me up. Women like you who bitch about other women having wine during pregnancy are the same women who never exercise or think nothing of eating a ton of of food (including junk food). Hilarious. I feel sorry for your child who is probably obese and afraid of his own shadow due to your helicoptering.

I’m 5’5” and weigh 110. Nice try though. I found your comment amusing as I stand in the Whole Foods checkout line with my organic strawberries and spinach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am anti incubator status within reason. There is zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to suggest that a very occasional glass of wine causes any issues. So I am deeply opposed to giving anyone crap for that.

Modern parenthood is measured by pain. How much did you sacrifice/give up/suffer for your child. The more you did the better you are as a parent or something.

I do not drink often when pregnant and never more than a glass. Anyone who wants to give me a hard time about that can give me a report on everything they do day in and day out and see if they meet all the recommendations.

In the absence of randomized controlled studies, there is zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to show that a very occaisional glass of wine DOESN'T cause any issues.

Sure. There is also zero evidence that eating ice cream doesn't cause any issues. Or Basically anything. Because its considered unethical to do those kind of randomized controlled studies on pregnant women.

So in the absence of quality medical research I am going to use my best judgement based on thousands of years of human reproduction and come down on the belief that generally most things in moderation, especially very low frequency/exposure, are fine.

Stop eating processed foods and sugar if you're that worried about ever doing the slightest bit of damage to your baby!

You’re self absorbed lush. I feel sorry for your child. He or she deserves a parent that won’t put them in harms way for a moment of alcohol induced bliss.

haha You crack me up. Women like you who bitch about other women having wine during pregnancy are the same women who never exercise or think nothing of eating a ton of of food (including junk food). Hilarious. I feel sorry for your child who is probably obese and afraid of his own shadow due to your helicoptering.

I’m 5’5” and weigh 110. Nice try though. I found your comment amusing as I stand in the Whole Foods checkout line with my organic strawberries and spinach.

DP, but frankly, your inability to think logically combined with your sh*tty, stigmatizing verbiage suggests your kids deserve far better. As if that kind of behavior doesn’t have consequences for their development!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am anti incubator status within reason. There is zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to suggest that a very occasional glass of wine causes any issues. So I am deeply opposed to giving anyone crap for that.

Modern parenthood is measured by pain. How much did you sacrifice/give up/suffer for your child. The more you did the better you are as a parent or something.

I do not drink often when pregnant and never more than a glass. Anyone who wants to give me a hard time about that can give me a report on everything they do day in and day out and see if they meet all the recommendations.

In the absence of randomized controlled studies, there is zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to show that a very occaisional glass of wine DOESN'T cause any issues.

Sure. There is also zero evidence that eating ice cream doesn't cause any issues. Or Basically anything. Because its considered unethical to do those kind of randomized controlled studies on pregnant women.

So in the absence of quality medical research I am going to use my best judgement based on thousands of years of human reproduction and come down on the belief that generally most things in moderation, especially very low frequency/exposure, are fine.

Stop eating processed foods and sugar if you're that worried about ever doing the slightest bit of damage to your baby!

You’re self absorbed lush. I feel sorry for your child. He or she deserves a parent that won’t put them in harms way for a moment of alcohol induced bliss.

I'm the pp you're responding to, none of the others who piped in.

I think it's funny you think 1/2 to 1 glass of wine creates a moment of alcohol induced bliss! It makes me think you don't particularly understand what the experience of drinking is like

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am anti incubator status within reason. There is zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to suggest that a very occasional glass of wine causes any issues. So I am deeply opposed to giving anyone crap for that.

Modern parenthood is measured by pain. How much did you sacrifice/give up/suffer for your child. The more you did the better you are as a parent or something.

I do not drink often when pregnant and never more than a glass. Anyone who wants to give me a hard time about that can give me a report on everything they do day in and day out and see if they meet all the recommendations.

In the absence of randomized controlled studies, there is zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to show that a very occaisional glass of wine DOESN'T cause any issues.

Sure. There is also zero evidence that eating ice cream doesn't cause any issues. Or Basically anything. Because its considered unethical to do those kind of randomized controlled studies on pregnant women.

So in the absence of quality medical research I am going to use my best judgement based on thousands of years of human reproduction and come down on the belief that generally most things in moderation, especially very low frequency/exposure, are fine.

Stop eating processed foods and sugar if you're that worried about ever doing the slightest bit of damage to your baby!

You’re self absorbed lush. I feel sorry for your child. He or she deserves a parent that won’t put them in harms way for a moment of alcohol induced bliss.

I'm the pp you're responding to, none of the others who piped in.

I think it's funny you think 1/2 to 1 glass of wine creates a moment of alcohol induced bliss! It makes me think you don't particularly understand what the experience of drinking is like

Then why not just drink grape juice and know for certain there’s no alcohol-related risks?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am anti incubator status within reason. There is zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to suggest that a very occasional glass of wine causes any issues. So I am deeply opposed to giving anyone crap for that.

Modern parenthood is measured by pain. How much did you sacrifice/give up/suffer for your child. The more you did the better you are as a parent or something.

I do not drink often when pregnant and never more than a glass. Anyone who wants to give me a hard time about that can give me a report on everything they do day in and day out and see if they meet all the recommendations.

In the absence of randomized controlled studies, there is zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to show that a very occaisional glass of wine DOESN'T cause any issues.

Sure. There is also zero evidence that eating ice cream doesn't cause any issues. Or Basically anything. Because its considered unethical to do those kind of randomized controlled studies on pregnant women.

So in the absence of quality medical research I am going to use my best judgement based on thousands of years of human reproduction and come down on the belief that generally most things in moderation, especially very low frequency/exposure, are fine.

Stop eating processed foods and sugar if you're that worried about ever doing the slightest bit of damage to your baby!

You’re self absorbed lush. I feel sorry for your child. He or she deserves a parent that won’t put them in harms way for a moment of alcohol induced bliss.

haha You crack me up. Women like you who bitch about other women having wine during pregnancy are the same women who never exercise or think nothing of eating a ton of of food (including junk food). Hilarious. I feel sorry for your child who is probably obese and afraid of his own shadow due to your helicoptering.

I’m 5’5” and weigh 110. Nice try though. I found your comment amusing as I stand in the Whole Foods checkout line with my organic strawberries and spinach.

DP, but frankly, your inability to think logically combined with your sh*tty, stigmatizing verbiage suggests your kids deserve far better. As if that kind of behavior doesn’t have consequences for their development!

I’m not the one using swear words. Children shouldn’t be exposed to such anger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am anti incubator status within reason. There is zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to suggest that a very occasional glass of wine causes any issues. So I am deeply opposed to giving anyone crap for that.

Modern parenthood is measured by pain. How much did you sacrifice/give up/suffer for your child. The more you did the better you are as a parent or something.

I do not drink often when pregnant and never more than a glass. Anyone who wants to give me a hard time about that can give me a report on everything they do day in and day out and see if they meet all the recommendations.

In the absence of randomized controlled studies, there is zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to show that a very occaisional glass of wine DOESN'T cause any issues.

Sure. There is also zero evidence that eating ice cream doesn't cause any issues. Or Basically anything. Because its considered unethical to do those kind of randomized controlled studies on pregnant women.

So in the absence of quality medical research I am going to use my best judgement based on thousands of years of human reproduction and come down on the belief that generally most things in moderation, especially very low frequency/exposure, are fine.

Stop eating processed foods and sugar if you're that worried about ever doing the slightest bit of damage to your baby!

You’re self absorbed lush. I feel sorry for your child. He or she deserves a parent that won’t put them in harms way for a moment of alcohol induced bliss.

I'm the pp you're responding to, none of the others who piped in.

I think it's funny you think 1/2 to 1 glass of wine creates a moment of alcohol induced bliss! It makes me think you don't particularly understand what the experience of drinking is like

Then why not just drink grape juice and know for certain there’s no alcohol-related risks?

Because grape juice is gross?

I feel like there are three camps of women/ people.

1) Women who believe sincerely that any alcohol presents a risk.
2) Women who believe sincerely that while alcohol is dangerous in large quantities an occasional glass is perfectly safe
3) Women who don't care about alcohol hurting their baby and who do whatever they want.

The vast majority of women are in groups 1 and 2. The vast majority of moms with FASD kids are in group 3. Maybe the occasional alcoholic that cares but can't help it rounds that group out.

You seem to think I think I'm taking a risk. But I don't. I think a glass of wine once every few weeks is as dangerous as choosing to walk down the street. And think people who tell me not to do it if I love my baby are as silly as someone telling me not to talk a walk because I might get hit by a car.

I don't want to live my life in a constant state of worry. I don't want to live my life in a bubble because someone else tells me something maybe possibly could be dangerous. Life is short and I will not spend it cowering. I know that sounds like a dramatic thing when we're talking about drinking a glass of wine while pregnant but it's honestly just a life philosophy. I refuse to be afraid of things that there is no reason to be afraid of. Life is a gift to be lived. I'll listen to advice that's reasonable with evidence but 80% of pregnancy advise is fear based. "Better not do that it might hurt the baby". No. If I know it will hurt I won't do it, but I'm not going to hide in a bubble foot 9 months because someone else thinks I should.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am anti incubator status within reason. There is zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to suggest that a very occasional glass of wine causes any issues. So I am deeply opposed to giving anyone crap for that.

Modern parenthood is measured by pain. How much did you sacrifice/give up/suffer for your child. The more you did the better you are as a parent or something.

I do not drink often when pregnant and never more than a glass. Anyone who wants to give me a hard time about that can give me a report on everything they do day in and day out and see if they meet all the recommendations.

In the absence of randomized controlled studies, there is zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to show that a very occaisional glass of wine DOESN'T cause any issues.

Sure. There is also zero evidence that eating ice cream doesn't cause any issues. Or Basically anything. Because its considered unethical to do those kind of randomized controlled studies on pregnant women.

So in the absence of quality medical research I am going to use my best judgement based on thousands of years of human reproduction and come down on the belief that generally most things in moderation, especially very low frequency/exposure, are fine.

Stop eating processed foods and sugar if you're that worried about ever doing the slightest bit of damage to your baby!

You’re self absorbed lush. I feel sorry for your child. He or she deserves a parent that won’t put them in harms way for a moment of alcohol induced bliss.

I'm the pp you're responding to, none of the others who piped in.

I think it's funny you think 1/2 to 1 glass of wine creates a moment of alcohol induced bliss! It makes me think you don't particularly understand what the experience of drinking is like

Then why not just drink grape juice and know for certain there’s no alcohol-related risks?

Because grape juice is gross?

I feel like there are three camps of women/ people.

1) Women who believe sincerely that any alcohol presents a risk.
2) Women who believe sincerely that while alcohol is dangerous in large quantities an occasional glass is perfectly safe
3) Women who don't care about alcohol hurting their baby and who do whatever they want.

The vast majority of women are in groups 1 and 2. The vast majority of moms with FASD kids are in group 3. Maybe the occasional alcoholic that cares but can't help it rounds that group out.

You seem to think I think I'm taking a risk. But I don't. I think a glass of wine once every few weeks is as dangerous as choosing to walk down the street. And think people who tell me not to do it if I love my baby are as silly as someone telling me not to talk a walk because I might get hit by a car.

I don't want to live my life in a constant state of worry. I don't want to live my life in a bubble because someone else tells me something maybe possibly could be dangerous. Life is short and I will not spend it cowering. I know that sounds like a dramatic thing when we're talking about drinking a glass of wine while pregnant but it's honestly just a life philosophy. I refuse to be afraid of things that there is no reason to be afraid of. Life is a gift to be lived. I'll listen to advice that's reasonable with evidence but 80% of pregnancy advise is fear based. "Better not do that it might hurt the baby". No. If I know it will hurt I won't do it, but I'm not going to hide in a bubble foot 9 months because someone else thinks I should.

So by your own rating system, you are in group 3. But your second category should be rewritten:

2) Women who convince themselves they can drink x amount of alcohol within y timeframe while pregnant and not harm their fetus. As alcohol is a known teratogen, and each woman’s metabolism (and placenta) is unique, it’s not a question of if the alcohol will affect your fetus, but how much will reach it when you drink and how great the effect will be. The more you drink, the more opportunity for your fetus to be harmed, which is why FASD is a spectrum and not a single condition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am anti incubator status within reason. There is zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to suggest that a very occasional glass of wine causes any issues. So I am deeply opposed to giving anyone crap for that.

Modern parenthood is measured by pain. How much did you sacrifice/give up/suffer for your child. The more you did the better you are as a parent or something.

I do not drink often when pregnant and never more than a glass. Anyone who wants to give me a hard time about that can give me a report on everything they do day in and day out and see if they meet all the recommendations.

In the absence of randomized controlled studies, there is zero, and I mean ZERO evidence to show that a very occaisional glass of wine DOESN'T cause any issues.

Sure. There is also zero evidence that eating ice cream doesn't cause any issues. Or Basically anything. Because its considered unethical to do those kind of randomized controlled studies on pregnant women.

So in the absence of quality medical research I am going to use my best judgement based on thousands of years of human reproduction and come down on the belief that generally most things in moderation, especially very low frequency/exposure, are fine.

Stop eating processed foods and sugar if you're that worried about ever doing the slightest bit of damage to your baby!

You’re self absorbed lush. I feel sorry for your child. He or she deserves a parent that won’t put them in harms way for a moment of alcohol induced bliss.

I'm the pp you're responding to, none of the others who piped in.

I think it's funny you think 1/2 to 1 glass of wine creates a moment of alcohol induced bliss! It makes me think you don't particularly understand what the experience of drinking is like

Then why not just drink grape juice and know for certain there’s no alcohol-related risks?

Because grape juice is gross?

I feel like there are three camps of women/ people.

1) Women who believe sincerely that any alcohol presents a risk.
2) Women who believe sincerely that while alcohol is dangerous in large quantities an occasional glass is perfectly safe
3) Women who don't care about alcohol hurting their baby and who do whatever they want.

The vast majority of women are in groups 1 and 2. The vast majority of moms with FASD kids are in group 3. Maybe the occasional alcoholic that cares but can't help it rounds that group out.

You seem to think I think I'm taking a risk. But I don't. I think a glass of wine once every few weeks is as dangerous as choosing to walk down the street. And think people who tell me not to do it if I love my baby are as silly as someone telling me not to talk a walk because I might get hit by a car.

I don't want to live my life in a constant state of worry. I don't want to live my life in a bubble because someone else tells me something maybe possibly could be dangerous. Life is short and I will not spend it cowering. I know that sounds like a dramatic thing when we're talking about drinking a glass of wine while pregnant but it's honestly just a life philosophy. I refuse to be afraid of things that there is no reason to be afraid of. Life is a gift to be lived. I'll listen to advice that's reasonable with evidence but 80% of pregnancy advise is fear based. "Better not do that it might hurt the baby". No. If I know it will hurt I won't do it, but I'm not going to hide in a bubble foot 9 months because someone else thinks I should.

So by your own rating system, you are in group 3. But your second category should be rewritten:

2) Women who convince themselves they can drink x amount of alcohol within y timeframe while pregnant and not harm their fetus. As alcohol is a known teratogen, and each woman’s metabolism (and placenta) is unique, it’s not a question of if the alcohol will affect your fetus, but how much will reach it when you drink and how great the effect will be. The more you drink, the more opportunity for your fetus to be harmed, which is why FASD is a spectrum and not a single condition.

How on earth am I in group 3? Lol. You guys just want women to fit into your narrative.

Rephrase all you want. Fact of the matter is that a lot of women can observe the world around them and realize that there is a big difference between women who don't alter their drinking habits and women who have a single glass on an infrequent basis. And so do not believe that rare glass is doing anything at all.

One of the differences is FASD.

[Anonymous]

Wow, there really are such different ways of approaching risk. I like understanding the actual risks of doing something even if it's not something I really value doing - for example, i used to buy bagged romaine and salad greens every single week, and lunchmeat never, it's just not a part of my regular diet or a big treat for me. As a pregnant woman it's pretty important for me to know that listeria finds on lettuce and greens have been both widespread and recent, so I've changed my weekly shopping and eating habits for a few months, while incidence from lunchmeat is really rare these days, so I was at a work event last week where deli sandwiches were the only lunch option and I ate a half. That was a week ago, so far no listeria.

Yes, i could have skipped it and gotten food later, I choose other options whenever I have them and i dont have a lunchmeat addiction problem, but I honestly do think it's a risk evaluation question, not a straight up black and white moral virtue problem. I also think people who have a risk evaluation approach to alcohol here are being treated as though they're moral failures and purity is not the appropriate lens here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, there really are such different ways of approaching risk. I like understanding the actual risks of doing something even if it's not something I really value doing - for example, i used to buy bagged romaine and salad greens every single week, and lunchmeat never, it's just not a part of my regular diet or a big treat for me. As a pregnant woman it's pretty important for me to know that listeria finds on lettuce and greens have been both widespread and recent, so I've changed my weekly shopping and eating habits for a few months, while incidence from lunchmeat is really rare these days, so I was at a work event last week where deli sandwiches were the only lunch option and I ate a half. That was a week ago, so far no listeria.

Yes, i could have skipped it and gotten food later, I choose other options whenever I have them and i dont have a lunchmeat addiction problem, but I honestly do think it's a risk evaluation question, not a straight up black and white moral virtue problem. I also think people who have a risk evaluation approach to alcohol here are being treated as though they're moral failures and purity is not the appropriate lens here.

I don’t think they’re moral failures. But I have seen FAS first hand, resulting from a woman who didn’t drink that much during her pregnancy. I am all for women making their own choices with their lives and bodies, but SOMETIMES it’s reasonable to expect women to put their babies first. It’s only 9 months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, there really are such different ways of approaching risk. I like understanding the actual risks of doing something even if it's not something I really value doing - for example, i used to buy bagged romaine and salad greens every single week, and lunchmeat never, it's just not a part of my regular diet or a big treat for me. As a pregnant woman it's pretty important for me to know that listeria finds on lettuce and greens have been both widespread and recent, so I've changed my weekly shopping and eating habits for a few months, while incidence from lunchmeat is really rare these days, so I was at a work event last week where deli sandwiches were the only lunch option and I ate a half. That was a week ago, so far no listeria.

Yes, i could have skipped it and gotten food later, I choose other options whenever I have them and i dont have a lunchmeat addiction problem, but I honestly do think it's a risk evaluation question, not a straight up black and white moral virtue problem. I also think people who have a risk evaluation approach to alcohol here are being treated as though they're moral failures and purity is not the appropriate lens here.

I don’t think they’re moral failures. But I have seen FAS first hand, resulting from a woman who didn’t drink that much during her pregnancy. I am all for women making their own choices with their lives and bodies, but SOMETIMES it’s reasonable to expect women to put their babies first. It’s only 9 months.

Please elaborate. I would guess that you just don't know how much this woman drank.