Is there any objective source of information on light drinking during pregnancy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there might be just one poster here who keeps adamantly insisting that every woman’s alcohol processing is different and so drinking any amount of alcohol is unsafe. I’m just not buying it. I think by this time in life, you’d know if you’re someone super unique and special who gets absolutely hammered from one glass of wine over dinner. And I’ve yet to see any evidence that some placentas just like suck all the minute amounts of alcohol in your blood stream tricking in over the course of an hour or two and manage to inject it straight into the fetus. Show me the proof of these outlier women and placentas. Show me the proof that some woman drank a couple glasses of wine during her pregnancy and her baby got a FASD. Otherwise, you just seem like a crazy person on a fervent mission to get everyone to believe your assertions that have zero basis in reality. And I say that as someone who didn’t have any alcohol during her pregnancies.

I'm the PP who posted the JAMA article and another response - I just joined the thread today, so I'm not the only one posting. I also made none of those assertions. Your attempt to flame me is puzzling and I don't think you have a very good understanding of the science. I don't really either, but I can grasp that alcohol is a toxin in the human body and that a lot of kids end up having FASD. I'm sure anyone who has a kid with developmental delays, behavior disorders etc would tell you whatever benefit you get from drinking is not worth even the tiny chance of it causing your child harm. People with addictions are different - they can't always choose, but the rest of us can. In fact, it's one of the easiest parenting decisions of all time.

Weird that you're taking this as a personal flaming if you're the only person here. Are you the thin lady buying your organic strawberries and spinach at whole foods? I didn't like her.

IMO the JAMA article doesn't really evaluate the questions we'res talking about. The study cites a large polling of pregnant women that said 3.1% reported at least one binge drinking episode in the previous 30 days. 10.2% reported some recent drinking. Of the 6000 or so kids surveyed in the study, only 131 kids had actual diagnosable FASD or PFASD. The rest of the kids (91 or them, so 41% of the kids they are giving a positive diagnosis on) were judged on having neurodevelopmental disorders connected to alcohol exposure. The study itself cites this as a weakness.

...the criteria defining neurobehavioral impairment in this study were selected to balance sensitivity for deficits that have functional consequences with specificity for the characteristic neurobehavioral domains known to be affected by prenatal alcohol exposure. The objective was to produce prevalence estimates across multiple communities using a one-time evaluation to identify children with measurable deficits consistent with prenatal alcohol exposure. However, in the absence of a definitive biomarker for fetal alcohol spectrum disorders, it is impossible to know what proportion of these deficits were caused by fetal alcohol exposure. Therefore, prevalence estimates, particularly for alcohol-related neurodevelopmental disorder, could be overestimated.

Also, the study itself has a standard of meaningful alcohol exposure in pregnancy which would assume some type of agreement on the part of researchers that while there is no KNOWN safe limit, there are some things widely assumed to be safe. Like a very occasional glass of wine. As defined in their appendix:

IV. Alcohol Consumption Criteria
One or more of the following conditions must be met to constitute documented prenatal alcohol
exposure during pregnancy. The information must be obtained from the biological mother or a
reliable collateral source (eg, family member, social service agency, or medical record)
A. 6 or more drinks per week for 2 or more weeks during pregnancy
B. 3 or more drinks per occasion on 2 or more occasions during pregnancy
C. Documentation of alcohol-related social or legal problems in proximity to (prior to or during)
the index pregnancy (eg, history of multiple citations for driving while intoxicated or history of
treatment for an alcohol-related condition)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think there might be just one poster here who keeps adamantly insisting that every woman’s alcohol processing is different and so drinking any amount of alcohol is unsafe. I’m just not buying it. I think by this time in life, you’d know if you’re someone super unique and special who gets absolutely hammered from one glass of wine over dinner. And I’ve yet to see any evidence that some placentas just like suck all the minute amounts of alcohol in your blood stream tricking in over the course of an hour or two and manage to inject it straight into the fetus. Show me the proof of these outlier women and placentas. Show me the proof that some woman drank a couple glasses of wine during her pregnancy and her baby got a FASD. Otherwise, you just seem like a crazy person on a fervent mission to get everyone to believe your assertions that have zero basis in reality. And I say that as someone who didn’t have any alcohol during her pregnancies.

Not sure why you find it so hard to believe that multiple women think drinking during pregnancy is a terrible idea. Most of us have the self control and love for our child enough to quit the booze for 9 months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there might be just one poster here who keeps adamantly insisting that every woman’s alcohol processing is different and so drinking any amount of alcohol is unsafe. I’m just not buying it. I think by this time in life, you’d know if you’re someone super unique and special who gets absolutely hammered from one glass of wine over dinner. And I’ve yet to see any evidence that some placentas just like suck all the minute amounts of alcohol in your blood stream tricking in over the course of an hour or two and manage to inject it straight into the fetus. Show me the proof of these outlier women and placentas. Show me the proof that some woman drank a couple glasses of wine during her pregnancy and her baby got a FASD. Otherwise, you just seem like a crazy person on a fervent mission to get everyone to believe your assertions that have zero basis in reality. And I say that as someone who didn’t have any alcohol during her pregnancies.

Not sure why you find it so hard to believe that multiple women think drinking during pregnancy is a terrible idea. Most of us have the self control and love for our child enough to quit the booze for 9 months.

Again, I didn’t drink during my pregnancies. But I don’t view women that have a glass of wine with dinner every now and the. As having a lack of self-control or love for their child. What they do have is a working brain, self-autonomy, and the ability to weigh relative risks and benefits. Again, show me a case where a child has a FASD because their mom has a glass of wine with dinner here and there.

The fact that you think that it is quite risky to have a glass of wine here and there during pregnancy is just your personal opinion and is not supported by evidence. Someone else might think a mom’s decision was super risky to be pregnant and (a) live in the city near air pollution; (b) be over age 35; (c) eat a bag of chopped lettuce; (d) eat a cup of licorice candy; or (e) go outside during flu season. I view all of those things as riskier than a glass of wine because of actual evidence linking those things to complications and health problems. It’s a personal risk calculus based on always evolving scientific evidence. It’s arrogant and narrow minded to assume you are right based on zero scientific evidence and morally superior. I would imagine your narrow minded view of the world, lack of critical thinking skills, and judgmental attitude is far more toxic to your child than a glass of wine could have ever been.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there might be just one poster here who keeps adamantly insisting that every woman’s alcohol processing is different and so drinking any amount of alcohol is unsafe. I’m just not buying it. I think by this time in life, you’d know if you’re someone super unique and special who gets absolutely hammered from one glass of wine over dinner. And I’ve yet to see any evidence that some placentas just like suck all the minute amounts of alcohol in your blood stream tricking in over the course of an hour or two and manage to inject it straight into the fetus. Show me the proof of these outlier women and placentas. Show me the proof that some woman drank a couple glasses of wine during her pregnancy and her baby got a FASD. Otherwise, you just seem like a crazy person on a fervent mission to get everyone to believe your assertions that have zero basis in reality. And I say that as someone who didn’t have any alcohol during her pregnancies.

Not sure why you find it so hard to believe that multiple women think drinking during pregnancy is a terrible idea. Most of us have the self control and love for our child enough to quit the booze for 9 months.

Again, I didn’t drink during my pregnancies. But I don’t view women that have a glass of wine with dinner every now and the. As having a lack of self-control or love for their child. What they do have is a working brain, self-autonomy, and the ability to weigh relative risks and benefits. Again, show me a case where a child has a FASD because their mom has a glass of wine with dinner here and there.

The fact that you think that it is quite risky to have a glass of wine here and there during pregnancy is just your personal opinion and is not supported by evidence. Someone else might think a mom’s decision was super risky to be pregnant and (a) live in the city near air pollution; (b) be over age 35; (c) eat a bag of chopped lettuce; (d) eat a cup of licorice candy; or (e) go outside during flu season. I view all of those things as riskier than a glass of wine because of actual evidence linking those things to complications and health problems. It’s a personal risk calculus based on always evolving scientific evidence. It’s arrogant and narrow minded to assume you are right based on zero scientific evidence and morally superior. I would imagine your narrow minded view of the world, lack of critical thinking skills, and judgmental attitude is far more toxic to your child than a glass of wine could have ever been.

FASDs caused by alcohol exposure are permanent life-long neurodevelopmental, cognitive and behavioral conditions, not vague "health problems" cause by...licorice candy.

But anyway... Moving on since you seem to be having a very bad day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there might be just one poster here who keeps adamantly insisting that every woman’s alcohol processing is different and so drinking any amount of alcohol is unsafe. I’m just not buying it. I think by this time in life, you’d know if you’re someone super unique and special who gets absolutely hammered from one glass of wine over dinner. And I’ve yet to see any evidence that some placentas just like suck all the minute amounts of alcohol in your blood stream tricking in over the course of an hour or two and manage to inject it straight into the fetus. Show me the proof of these outlier women and placentas. Show me the proof that some woman drank a couple glasses of wine during her pregnancy and her baby got a FASD. Otherwise, you just seem like a crazy person on a fervent mission to get everyone to believe your assertions that have zero basis in reality. And I say that as someone who didn’t have any alcohol during her pregnancies.

Not sure why you find it so hard to believe that multiple women think drinking during pregnancy is a terrible idea. Most of us have the self control and love for our child enough to quit the booze for 9 months.

Again, I didn’t drink during my pregnancies. But I don’t view women that have a glass of wine with dinner every now and the. As having a lack of self-control or love for their child. What they do have is a working brain, self-autonomy, and the ability to weigh relative risks and benefits. Again, show me a case where a child has a FASD because their mom has a glass of wine with dinner here and there.

The fact that you think that it is quite risky to have a glass of wine here and there during pregnancy is just your personal opinion and is not supported by evidence. Someone else might think a mom’s decision was super risky to be pregnant and (a) live in the city near air pollution; (b) be over age 35; (c) eat a bag of chopped lettuce; (d) eat a cup of licorice candy; or (e) go outside during flu season. I view all of those things as riskier than a glass of wine because of actual evidence linking those things to complications and health problems. It’s a personal risk calculus based on always evolving scientific evidence. It’s arrogant and narrow minded to assume you are right based on zero scientific evidence and morally superior. I would imagine your narrow minded view of the world, lack of critical thinking skills, and judgmental attitude is far more toxic to your child than a glass of wine could have ever been.

FASDs caused by alcohol exposure are permanent life-long neurodevelopmental, cognitive and behavioral conditions, not vague "health problems" cause by...licorice candy.

But anyway... Moving on since you seem to be having a very bad day.

Not having a bad day at all. Just always impressed at how many narrow minded women there are out there trying to shame and police other women. Also, the problems caused by licorice candy are early puberty, lower IQ, and behavioral issues. No one is arguing that the problems caused by FASD aren’t real and devastating. Some of us are just logical and broad minded enough to distinguish between different types of drinking and have a worldview that isn’t black and white, moralistic, fear-based, and misogynistic. The problems caused by a glass of wine here and there are totally unproven and seemingly non-existent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there might be just one poster here who keeps adamantly insisting that every woman’s alcohol processing is different and so drinking any amount of alcohol is unsafe. I’m just not buying it. I think by this time in life, you’d know if you’re someone super unique and special who gets absolutely hammered from one glass of wine over dinner. And I’ve yet to see any evidence that some placentas just like suck all the minute amounts of alcohol in your blood stream tricking in over the course of an hour or two and manage to inject it straight into the fetus. Show me the proof of these outlier women and placentas. Show me the proof that some woman drank a couple glasses of wine during her pregnancy and her baby got a FASD. Otherwise, you just seem like a crazy person on a fervent mission to get everyone to believe your assertions that have zero basis in reality. And I say that as someone who didn’t have any alcohol during her pregnancies.

Not sure why you find it so hard to believe that multiple women think drinking during pregnancy is a terrible idea. Most of us have the self control and love for our child enough to quit the booze for 9 months.

Again, I didn’t drink during my pregnancies. But I don’t view women that have a glass of wine with dinner every now and the. As having a lack of self-control or love for their child. What they do have is a working brain, self-autonomy, and the ability to weigh relative risks and benefits. Again, show me a case where a child has a FASD because their mom has a glass of wine with dinner here and there.

The fact that you think that it is quite risky to have a glass of wine here and there during pregnancy is just your personal opinion and is not supported by evidence. Someone else might think a mom’s decision was super risky to be pregnant and (a) live in the city near air pollution; (b) be over age 35; (c) eat a bag of chopped lettuce; (d) eat a cup of licorice candy; or (e) go outside during flu season. I view all of those things as riskier than a glass of wine because of actual evidence linking those things to complications and health problems. It’s a personal risk calculus based on always evolving scientific evidence. It’s arrogant and narrow minded to assume you are right based on zero scientific evidence and morally superior. I would imagine your narrow minded view of the world, lack of critical thinking skills, and judgmental attitude is far more toxic to your child than a glass of wine could have ever been.

FASDs caused by alcohol exposure are permanent life-long neurodevelopmental, cognitive and behavioral conditions, not vague "health problems" cause by...licorice candy.

But anyway... Moving on since you seem to be having a very bad day.

Not having a bad day at all. Just always impressed at how many narrow minded women there are out there trying to shame and police other women. Also, the problems caused by licorice candy are early puberty, lower IQ, and behavioral issues. No one is arguing that the problems caused by FASD aren’t real and devastating. Some of us are just logical and broad minded enough to distinguish between different types of drinking and have a worldview that isn’t black and white, moralistic, fear-based, and misogynistic. The problems caused by a glass of wine here and there are totally unproven and seemingly non-existent.

Loving wine doesn’t make you broad minded or logical.

And stop with the fear-based, misogynistic nonsense. I’ve stated several times in this thread that I am pro, PRO PRO choice, staunch supporter of equal pay for women, bust the patriarchy kind of woman. Crack open a bottle of champagne in the delivery room and get straight back to your self care routine, because nine months of pregnancy is hard AF. Just please don’t think that just because you aren’t affected by a glass of wine “here and there” that your baby tolerates alcohol the same way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there might be just one poster here who keeps adamantly insisting that every woman’s alcohol processing is different and so drinking any amount of alcohol is unsafe. I’m just not buying it. I think by this time in life, you’d know if you’re someone super unique and special who gets absolutely hammered from one glass of wine over dinner. And I’ve yet to see any evidence that some placentas just like suck all the minute amounts of alcohol in your blood stream tricking in over the course of an hour or two and manage to inject it straight into the fetus. Show me the proof of these outlier women and placentas. Show me the proof that some woman drank a couple glasses of wine during her pregnancy and her baby got a FASD. Otherwise, you just seem like a crazy person on a fervent mission to get everyone to believe your assertions that have zero basis in reality. And I say that as someone who didn’t have any alcohol during her pregnancies.

Not sure why you find it so hard to believe that multiple women think drinking during pregnancy is a terrible idea. Most of us have the self control and love for our child enough to quit the booze for 9 months.

Again, I didn’t drink during my pregnancies. But I don’t view women that have a glass of wine with dinner every now and the. As having a lack of self-control or love for their child. What they do have is a working brain, self-autonomy, and the ability to weigh relative risks and benefits. Again, show me a case where a child has a FASD because their mom has a glass of wine with dinner here and there.

The fact that you think that it is quite risky to have a glass of wine here and there during pregnancy is just your personal opinion and is not supported by evidence. Someone else might think a mom’s decision was super risky to be pregnant and (a) live in the city near air pollution; (b) be over age 35; (c) eat a bag of chopped lettuce; (d) eat a cup of licorice candy; or (e) go outside during flu season. I view all of those things as riskier than a glass of wine because of actual evidence linking those things to complications and health problems. It’s a personal risk calculus based on always evolving scientific evidence. It’s arrogant and narrow minded to assume you are right based on zero scientific evidence and morally superior. I would imagine your narrow minded view of the world, lack of critical thinking skills, and judgmental attitude is far more toxic to your child than a glass of wine could have ever been.

FASDs caused by alcohol exposure are permanent life-long neurodevelopmental, cognitive and behavioral conditions, not vague "health problems" cause by...licorice candy.

But anyway... Moving on since you seem to be having a very bad day.

Not having a bad day at all. Just always impressed at how many narrow minded women there are out there trying to shame and police other women. Also, the problems caused by licorice candy are early puberty, lower IQ, and behavioral issues. No one is arguing that the problems caused by FASD aren’t real and devastating. Some of us are just logical and broad minded enough to distinguish between different types of drinking and have a worldview that isn’t black and white, moralistic, fear-based, and misogynistic. The problems caused by a glass of wine here and there are totally unproven and seemingly non-existent.

Loving wine doesn’t make you broad minded or logical.

And stop with the fear-based, misogynistic nonsense. I’ve stated several times in this thread that I am pro, PRO PRO choice, staunch supporter of equal pay for women, bust the patriarchy kind of woman. Crack open a bottle of champagne in the delivery room and get straight back to your self care routine, because nine months of pregnancy is hard AF. Just please don’t think that just because you aren’t affected by a glass of wine “here and there” that your baby tolerates alcohol the same way.

As I’ve said multiple times, I didn’t drink during any of my pregnancies. Didn’t even drink during breastfeeding. I’m allergic to beer and wine and never drink it. Don’t even like the taste. This debate is not about loving wine, self-control, or loving fetuses at all. I don’t judge women that have a drink here and there during pregnancy for the reasons explained above.

Part of being pro women and pro choice is respecting a woman’s ability to make decisions for herself and about her own body. You don’t fit that criteria. Your view is that you are right despite a lack of evidence and all women that come to another conclusion are wine-loving lushes who don’t have self-control or lack love for their children and should be badgered and shamed for daring to have a different opinion and make responsible decisions about their own bodies. You are a part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there might be just one poster here who keeps adamantly insisting that every woman’s alcohol processing is different and so drinking any amount of alcohol is unsafe. I’m just not buying it. I think by this time in life, you’d know if you’re someone super unique and special who gets absolutely hammered from one glass of wine over dinner. And I’ve yet to see any evidence that some placentas just like suck all the minute amounts of alcohol in your blood stream tricking in over the course of an hour or two and manage to inject it straight into the fetus. Show me the proof of these outlier women and placentas. Show me the proof that some woman drank a couple glasses of wine during her pregnancy and her baby got a FASD. Otherwise, you just seem like a crazy person on a fervent mission to get everyone to believe your assertions that have zero basis in reality. And I say that as someone who didn’t have any alcohol during her pregnancies.

Not sure why you find it so hard to believe that multiple women think drinking during pregnancy is a terrible idea. Most of us have the self control and love for our child enough to quit the booze for 9 months.

Again, I didn’t drink during my pregnancies. But I don’t view women that have a glass of wine with dinner every now and the. As having a lack of self-control or love for their child. What they do have is a working brain, self-autonomy, and the ability to weigh relative risks and benefits. Again, show me a case where a child has a FASD because their mom has a glass of wine with dinner here and there.

The fact that you think that it is quite risky to have a glass of wine here and there during pregnancy is just your personal opinion and is not supported by evidence. Someone else might think a mom’s decision was super risky to be pregnant and (a) live in the city near air pollution; (b) be over age 35; (c) eat a bag of chopped lettuce; (d) eat a cup of licorice candy; or (e) go outside during flu season. I view all of those things as riskier than a glass of wine because of actual evidence linking those things to complications and health problems. It’s a personal risk calculus based on always evolving scientific evidence. It’s arrogant and narrow minded to assume you are right based on zero scientific evidence and morally superior. I would imagine your narrow minded view of the world, lack of critical thinking skills, and judgmental attitude is far more toxic to your child than a glass of wine could have ever been.

FASDs caused by alcohol exposure are permanent life-long neurodevelopmental, cognitive and behavioral conditions, not vague "health problems" cause by...licorice candy.

But anyway... Moving on since you seem to be having a very bad day.

Not having a bad day at all. Just always impressed at how many narrow minded women there are out there trying to shame and police other women. Also, the problems caused by licorice candy are early puberty, lower IQ, and behavioral issues. No one is arguing that the problems caused by FASD aren’t real and devastating. Some of us are just logical and broad minded enough to distinguish between different types of drinking and have a worldview that isn’t black and white, moralistic, fear-based, and misogynistic. The problems caused by a glass of wine here and there are totally unproven and seemingly non-existent.

Loving wine doesn’t make you broad minded or logical.

And stop with the fear-based, misogynistic nonsense. I’ve stated several times in this thread that I am pro, PRO PRO choice, staunch supporter of equal pay for women, bust the patriarchy kind of woman. Crack open a bottle of champagne in the delivery room and get straight back to your self care routine, because nine months of pregnancy is hard AF. Just please don’t think that just because you aren’t affected by a glass of wine “here and there” that your baby tolerates alcohol the same way.

As I’ve said multiple times, I didn’t drink during any of my pregnancies. Didn’t even drink during breastfeeding. I’m allergic to beer and wine and never drink it. Don’t even like the taste. This debate is not about loving wine, self-control, or loving fetuses at all. I don’t judge women that have a drink here and there during pregnancy for the reasons explained above.

Part of being pro women and pro choice is respecting a woman’s ability to make decisions for herself and about her own body. You don’t fit that criteria. Your view is that you are right despite a lack of evidence and all women that come to another conclusion are wine-loving lushes who don’t have self-control or lack love for their children and should be badgered and shamed for daring to have a different opinion and make responsible decisions about their own bodies. You are a part of the problem.

+1,000

Criminalization of pregnancy is a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there might be just one poster here who keeps adamantly insisting that every woman’s alcohol processing is different and so drinking any amount of alcohol is unsafe. I’m just not buying it. I think by this time in life, you’d know if you’re someone super unique and special who gets absolutely hammered from one glass of wine over dinner. And I’ve yet to see any evidence that some placentas just like suck all the minute amounts of alcohol in your blood stream tricking in over the course of an hour or two and manage to inject it straight into the fetus. Show me the proof of these outlier women and placentas. Show me the proof that some woman drank a couple glasses of wine during her pregnancy and her baby got a FASD. Otherwise, you just seem like a crazy person on a fervent mission to get everyone to believe your assertions that have zero basis in reality. And I say that as someone who didn’t have any alcohol during her pregnancies.

Not sure why you find it so hard to believe that multiple women think drinking during pregnancy is a terrible idea. Most of us have the self control and love for our child enough to quit the booze for 9 months.

Again, I didn’t drink during my pregnancies. But I don’t view women that have a glass of wine with dinner every now and the. As having a lack of self-control or love for their child. What they do have is a working brain, self-autonomy, and the ability to weigh relative risks and benefits. Again, show me a case where a child has a FASD because their mom has a glass of wine with dinner here and there.

The fact that you think that it is quite risky to have a glass of wine here and there during pregnancy is just your personal opinion and is not supported by evidence. Someone else might think a mom’s decision was super risky to be pregnant and (a) live in the city near air pollution; (b) be over age 35; (c) eat a bag of chopped lettuce; (d) eat a cup of licorice candy; or (e) go outside during flu season. I view all of those things as riskier than a glass of wine because of actual evidence linking those things to complications and health problems. It’s a personal risk calculus based on always evolving scientific evidence. It’s arrogant and narrow minded to assume you are right based on zero scientific evidence and morally superior. I would imagine your narrow minded view of the world, lack of critical thinking skills, and judgmental attitude is far more toxic to your child than a glass of wine could have ever been.

FASDs caused by alcohol exposure are permanent life-long neurodevelopmental, cognitive and behavioral conditions, not vague "health problems" cause by...licorice candy.

But anyway... Moving on since you seem to be having a very bad day.

Not having a bad day at all. Just always impressed at how many narrow minded women there are out there trying to shame and police other women. Also, the problems caused by licorice candy are early puberty, lower IQ, and behavioral issues. No one is arguing that the problems caused by FASD aren’t real and devastating. Some of us are just logical and broad minded enough to distinguish between different types of drinking and have a worldview that isn’t black and white, moralistic, fear-based, and misogynistic. The problems caused by a glass of wine here and there are totally unproven and seemingly non-existent.

Loving wine doesn’t make you broad minded or logical.

And stop with the fear-based, misogynistic nonsense. I’ve stated several times in this thread that I am pro, PRO PRO choice, staunch supporter of equal pay for women, bust the patriarchy kind of woman. Crack open a bottle of champagne in the delivery room and get straight back to your self care routine, because nine months of pregnancy is hard AF. Just please don’t think that just because you aren’t affected by a glass of wine “here and there” that your baby tolerates alcohol the same way.

As I’ve said multiple times, I didn’t drink during any of my pregnancies. Didn’t even drink during breastfeeding. I’m allergic to beer and wine and never drink it. Don’t even like the taste. This debate is not about loving wine, self-control, or loving fetuses at all. I don’t judge women that have a drink here and there during pregnancy for the reasons explained above.

Part of being pro women and pro choice is respecting a woman’s ability to make decisions for herself and about her own body. You don’t fit that criteria. Your view is that you are right despite a lack of evidence and all women that come to another conclusion are wine-loving lushes who don’t have self-control or lack love for their children and should be badgered and shamed for daring to have a different opinion and make responsible decisions about their own bodies. You are a part of the problem.

+1,000

Criminalization of pregnancy is a problem.

Being pro-woman and a feminist does NOT mean advocating that a woman should be able to do whatever the hell she wants, just because she is a woman. There is a helpless child depending on the mother to make good decisions. For every study you say shows that the whole "here and there" drinking schedule doesn't cause adverse health outcomes, there is another study that says we are underestimating the risks.

Also, stop with the whole +1,000 nonsense. 1,000 women do not actually agree with your comment. One additional poster agrees, or you agree with yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there might be just one poster here who keeps adamantly insisting that every woman’s alcohol processing is different and so drinking any amount of alcohol is unsafe. I’m just not buying it. I think by this time in life, you’d know if you’re someone super unique and special who gets absolutely hammered from one glass of wine over dinner. And I’ve yet to see any evidence that some placentas just like suck all the minute amounts of alcohol in your blood stream tricking in over the course of an hour or two and manage to inject it straight into the fetus. Show me the proof of these outlier women and placentas. Show me the proof that some woman drank a couple glasses of wine during her pregnancy and her baby got a FASD. Otherwise, you just seem like a crazy person on a fervent mission to get everyone to believe your assertions that have zero basis in reality. And I say that as someone who didn’t have any alcohol during her pregnancies.

Not sure why you find it so hard to believe that multiple women think drinking during pregnancy is a terrible idea. Most of us have the self control and love for our child enough to quit the booze for 9 months.

Again, I didn’t drink during my pregnancies. But I don’t view women that have a glass of wine with dinner every now and the. As having a lack of self-control or love for their child. What they do have is a working brain, self-autonomy, and the ability to weigh relative risks and benefits. Again, show me a case where a child has a FASD because their mom has a glass of wine with dinner here and there.

The fact that you think that it is quite risky to have a glass of wine here and there during pregnancy is just your personal opinion and is not supported by evidence. Someone else might think a mom’s decision was super risky to be pregnant and (a) live in the city near air pollution; (b) be over age 35; (c) eat a bag of chopped lettuce; (d) eat a cup of licorice candy; or (e) go outside during flu season. I view all of those things as riskier than a glass of wine because of actual evidence linking those things to complications and health problems. It’s a personal risk calculus based on always evolving scientific evidence. It’s arrogant and narrow minded to assume you are right based on zero scientific evidence and morally superior. I would imagine your narrow minded view of the world, lack of critical thinking skills, and judgmental attitude is far more toxic to your child than a glass of wine could have ever been.

FASDs caused by alcohol exposure are permanent life-long neurodevelopmental, cognitive and behavioral conditions, not vague "health problems" cause by...licorice candy.

But anyway... Moving on since you seem to be having a very bad day.

Not having a bad day at all. Just always impressed at how many narrow minded women there are out there trying to shame and police other women. Also, the problems caused by licorice candy are early puberty, lower IQ, and behavioral issues. No one is arguing that the problems caused by FASD aren’t real and devastating. Some of us are just logical and broad minded enough to distinguish between different types of drinking and have a worldview that isn’t black and white, moralistic, fear-based, and misogynistic. The problems caused by a glass of wine here and there are totally unproven and seemingly non-existent.

Loving wine doesn’t make you broad minded or logical.

And stop with the fear-based, misogynistic nonsense. I’ve stated several times in this thread that I am pro, PRO PRO choice, staunch supporter of equal pay for women, bust the patriarchy kind of woman. Crack open a bottle of champagne in the delivery room and get straight back to your self care routine, because nine months of pregnancy is hard AF. Just please don’t think that just because you aren’t affected by a glass of wine “here and there” that your baby tolerates alcohol the same way.

As I’ve said multiple times, I didn’t drink during any of my pregnancies. Didn’t even drink during breastfeeding. I’m allergic to beer and wine and never drink it. Don’t even like the taste. This debate is not about loving wine, self-control, or loving fetuses at all. I don’t judge women that have a drink here and there during pregnancy for the reasons explained above.

Part of being pro women and pro choice is respecting a woman’s ability to make decisions for herself and about her own body. You don’t fit that criteria. Your view is that you are right despite a lack of evidence and all women that come to another conclusion are wine-loving lushes who don’t have self-control or lack love for their children and should be badgered and shamed for daring to have a different opinion and make responsible decisions about their own bodies. You are a part of the problem.

+1,000

Criminalization of pregnancy is a problem.

Being pro-woman and a feminist does NOT mean advocating that a woman should be able to do whatever the hell she wants, just because she is a woman. There is a helpless child depending on the mother to make good decisions. For every study you say shows that the whole "here and there" drinking schedule doesn't cause adverse health outcomes, there is another study that says we are underestimating the risks.

Also, stop with the whole +1,000 nonsense. 1,000 women do not actually agree with your comment. One additional poster agrees, or you agree with yourself.

The bolded is factually inaccurate. You truly don’t get it, and I’m not sure why it’s so hard to admit that you don’t understand research. Most people don’t. Just accept that, and move on. Literally no one is saying that “pregnant women should be able to do whatever the hell” they want. No one. Please stop making things up to suit your narrative.

[Anonymous]

Under reporting consumption of alcoholic drinks is very common in male and female alcoholics. Most likely the prior poster who reported
friend with FAS child whose Mom said she drank once a week or so was lying. The under reporting Mom was probably an active, hard core, alcoholic during pregnancy.
It is possible Mom was hard core bingeing during the first 8 weeks.
It is also hard to believe that Mom's doctor said that any amount she could drink was okay. Most doctors discourage drinking while pregnant since
under reporting is so prevalent in alcoholics.

My boyfriends son (adopted) has FAS. He is an adult. I don't think he will ever work. Why risk it.

There is a lot of judgement in our society about FAS children. I suspect a lot of children who have learning disabilities actually are FAS children.

[Anonymous]

For these ladies that want to drink nightly/regularly during pregnancy I guess you plan to drink regularly as a Mom?

My siblings and I were all toddlers with 1 alcoholic parent.
I would not wish that experience on anyone.

If you can't abstain for 7 months during pregnancy perhaps a
talk to a Doctor is in order. There is immediate help
out there for pregnant women who can't stop drinking.

[Anonymous]

This is a stupid, old thread. If you don't think women should drink alcohol during pregnancy, then don't drink alcohol during pregnancy. You cannot control what other women do, and you are not going to convince anyone by angry posting on DCUM.

If you think women should be able to have a glass of wine with a meal without judgment during pregnancy, I hear you, but welcome to parenthood. Get used to being told you are a horrible parent for any of the multitude of choices you will make throughout your child's life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Under reporting consumption of alcoholic drinks is very common in male and female alcoholics. Most likely the prior poster who reported
friend with FAS child whose Mom said she drank once a week or so was lying. The under reporting Mom was probably an active, hard core, alcoholic during pregnancy.
It is possible Mom was hard core bingeing during the first 8 weeks.
It is also hard to believe that Mom's doctor said that any amount she could drink was okay. Most doctors discourage drinking while pregnant since
under reporting is so prevalent in alcoholics.

My boyfriends son (adopted) has FAS. He is an adult. I don't think he will ever work. Why risk it.

There is a lot of judgement in our society about FAS children. I suspect a lot of children who have learning disabilities actually are FAS children.

Under that logic, then all of you "every once in a while" pregnancy drinkers are also drinking a hell of a lot more than you're reporting here, thus putting your poor babies at risk for lifelong health challenges.

Also, be sure to cite your sources about under reporting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For these ladies that want to drink nightly/regularly during pregnancy I guess you plan to drink regularly as a Mom?

My siblings and I were all toddlers with 1 alcoholic parent.
I would not wish that experience on anyone.

If you can't abstain for 7 months during pregnancy perhaps a
talk to a Doctor is in order. There is immediate help
out there for pregnant women who can't stop drinking.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that.