TJ entrance test answers were never for sale

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fcps.edu/news/offers-extended-thomas-jefferson-high-school-science-and-technology-class-2029

Offers made to "academically wealthy feeders" (schools with most advanced STEM students):
Carson Middle School - 48
Cooper Middle School - 25
Longfellow Middle School - 48
Rocky Run Middle School - 22

The term “academically wealthy feeders” is used by certain posters on this forum, with a tone of envy, to describe top-ranked middle schools that consistently produce a large number of hardworking, advanced STEM students, and FCPS proudly mentions them in the TJ offers news releases.

My kid attends Carson and will be applying for TJ next year. We are upper middle class and have been able to provide them with math competition classes, STEM extra curriculars, and STEM camps because they enjoy them. I would expect that their STEM resume looks better than a FARMs kid from Poe who is interested in STEM and a strong student but does not have the same access to extra-curricular activities. I don't have a problem with the new admission system making sure that kid from Poe has a chance to attend TJ even if he is starting with less of a STEM base then my kid. The kid from Poe shouldn't be penalized because his parents couldn't afford the same opportunities we could.

There are ways to tweak the current admissions process that would improve the selection process. Increase the GPA to 3.75 and require all Honors classes. Math classes should be given a weight. 1 point for Algebra 2, .5 points for Geometry. That would mean that the more advanced math kids at schools like Carson, Cooper, Longfellow, and Rocky Run would be more likely to be in the top 1.5% and at the top of the general pool while not penalizing the kid at Poe who didn't have the same opportunities to accelerate in math.

But TJ is a public school that should be available to all the kids in our area if they meet the criteria. The old system favored kids whose parents could pay for enrichment. Adding the quota for each school opens the school to additional kids and there is nothing wrong with that.

TJ admits still come, overwhelmingly, from wealthier schools. Idk why you say the new system is an improvement.

DP, but there are now kids from ALL middle schools. Previously, many schools were shut out.

Academic excellence is not evenly distributed by geography, wealth or race. By the time 8th grade comes around, cognitive ability has already been fairly will developed and just going to TJ isn't going to make someone smarter if they are not prepared.

Right. Money buys "academic excellence".

https://record.umich.edu/articles/research-shows-how-wealth-begets-educational-disparity/
"The greatest impact of wealth on educational success came in years 6-12, which echoes previous studies on income’s impact on success. "

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Affluent families who could afford test prep programs were buying their kids an unfair advantage in admissions.

In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin [FCPS School Board] asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”


TJ students and others have publicly acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy and that test prep companies have a "cache of previous and example prompts".

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”


TJ students admitted that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl


https://katedalby.com/get-tj-update/
The math required for the test is basic math, algebra, and geometry. In the past, we have used old SAT tests from 30 years ago augmented with select problems to mimic the Quant Q. In order to adapt to the changes, we will increase the number of permutation and combination problems in response to students’ observations about the math last fall.


https://www.optimaltjprep.com/
““M. said that the  math questions were very similar to the challenge problems she did with you in classes.” - C.R. (Mother, after 2018-19 test)
“E. said that the  math questions were very close to what she did with you during the last 2 sessions. To quote her exactly: 'Dr, Tripathi's math problems were dead on point.'  We really appreciate your help with her preparation for the test!” - L.R. (Father, after 2017-18 test)”

Many videos showing how to solve actual SIS math questions on TJ admissions tests:
https://www.youtube.com/@katedalbysinspiringtestpre864/videos
https://www.youtube.com/@EduAvenuesTJTestPrep
https://www.youtube.com/@principiatutorsconsultants4395/videos

If all this is true and your conclusions are correct, then why did we saw no increase in FARM students with the first administration of the quant Q test?

What did the quant Q test have as statistically insignificant impact on who got in relative to other years?

Nobody could prep or study for quant Q because nobody knew what was on the test. So why didn't we see the sort of results you seem to think we would get if all the Asians weren't cheating?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fcps.edu/news/offers-extended-thomas-jefferson-high-school-science-and-technology-class-2029

Offers made to "academically wealthy feeders" (schools with most advanced STEM students):
Carson Middle School - 48
Cooper Middle School - 25
Longfellow Middle School - 48
Rocky Run Middle School - 22

The term “academically wealthy feeders” is used by certain posters on this forum, with a tone of envy, to describe top-ranked middle schools that consistently produce a large number of hardworking, advanced STEM students, and FCPS proudly mentions them in the TJ offers news releases.

My kid attends Carson and will be applying for TJ next year. We are upper middle class and have been able to provide them with math competition classes, STEM extra curriculars, and STEM camps because they enjoy them. I would expect that their STEM resume looks better than a FARMs kid from Poe who is interested in STEM and a strong student but does not have the same access to extra-curricular activities. I don't have a problem with the new admission system making sure that kid from Poe has a chance to attend TJ even if he is starting with less of a STEM base then my kid. The kid from Poe shouldn't be penalized because his parents couldn't afford the same opportunities we could.

There are ways to tweak the current admissions process that would improve the selection process. Increase the GPA to 3.75 and require all Honors classes. Math classes should be given a weight. 1 point for Algebra 2, .5 points for Geometry. That would mean that the more advanced math kids at schools like Carson, Cooper, Longfellow, and Rocky Run would be more likely to be in the top 1.5% and at the top of the general pool while not penalizing the kid at Poe who didn't have the same opportunities to accelerate in math.

But TJ is a public school that should be available to all the kids in our area if they meet the criteria. The old system favored kids whose parents could pay for enrichment. Adding the quota for each school opens the school to additional kids and there is nothing wrong with that.

TJ admits still come, overwhelmingly, from wealthier schools. Idk why you say the new system is an improvement.

Because there are now kids from every MS, even if the majority come from the 4 feeders. Kids who did not have a chance in the past, because they don’t have the same opportunities outside of school, can now attend one of the best school in the country. I think that is great. I suspect many of the Algebra 1 kids that bother so many people are coming from the four feeders as well as the schools that had not been represented at TJ in the past.

Race should not be the reason you attend or do not attend TJ. TJ was not the best school in the country because it's teachers are particularly good or because they have better facilities. It was the best school in the country because it selected the best students. With a 120 drop in PSAT score, it is no longer even in the top 100.

link?

There is a cite on this page with some links. Google is your friend.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1470/1200902.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Affluent families who could afford test prep programs were buying their kids an unfair advantage in admissions.

In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin [FCPS School Board] asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”


TJ students and others have publicly acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy and that test prep companies have a "cache of previous and example prompts".

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”


TJ students admitted that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl


https://katedalby.com/get-tj-update/
The math required for the test is basic math, algebra, and geometry. In the past, we have used old SAT tests from 30 years ago augmented with select problems to mimic the Quant Q. In order to adapt to the changes, we will increase the number of permutation and combination problems in response to students’ observations about the math last fall.


https://www.optimaltjprep.com/
““M. said that the  math questions were very similar to the challenge problems she did with you in classes.” - C.R. (Mother, after 2018-19 test)
“E. said that the  math questions were very close to what she did with you during the last 2 sessions. To quote her exactly: 'Dr, Tripathi's math problems were dead on point.'  We really appreciate your help with her preparation for the test!” - L.R. (Father, after 2017-18 test)”

Many videos showing how to solve actual SIS math questions on TJ admissions tests:
https://www.youtube.com/@katedalbysinspiringtestpre864/videos
https://www.youtube.com/@EduAvenuesTJTestPrep
https://www.youtube.com/@principiatutorsconsultants4395/videos

If all this is true and your conclusions are correct, then why did we saw no increase in FARM students with the first administration of the quant Q test?

What did the quant Q test have as statistically insignificant impact on who got in relative to other years?

Nobody could prep or study for quant Q because nobody knew what was on the test. So why didn't we see the sort of results you seem to think we would get if all the Asians weren't cheating?

I was explaining the rationale behind the change to Quant-Q, not that it was successful. Any test prep is still better than no test prep.

Some good insights IMO:
"Almost every year since I applied to TJ, the Admissions Office has transformed its admissions process; though this purportedly prevents tutors from coaching students to a test, in actuality, this only makes it harder for disadvantaged groups to help themselves prepare for the exam.

The set of skills needed to excel at the exam is different from the one that’s typically taught in schools: for those who haven’t been taking test prep for years, this may as well be the first time that they’ve taken a timed, standardized test. For those who’ve prepared for years, frequent practice exams and sample prompts allow them to gain experience taking 3 hour multiple choice exams like the Quant-Q/ACT-Aspire. As a senior who went through more than three years of TJ prep classes, the contrast between tuition-based courses and free outreach programs is saddening because tuition-based programs simply have more time and money: the competitive culture that fuels TJ prep encourages students to take classes from elementary school while parents’ money purchases the best prep books and hires the best teachers.

Given the additional vague guidelines, little guidance, and a complete lack of prep material, TJ Admissions and its applicant site denies ordinary people, those without access to expensive courses, the opportunity to get ahead. The gap between applicant and finalist demographics continues to widen as fewer and fewer preparatory resources are made public for applicants."

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/

[Anonymous]

Is prepping really that advantageous for tests like ACT aspire and PSAT? My DD looked through maybe a couple sample tests in a $20 PSAT prep book, and then proceeded to get a 1500/224 NMSI. For the ACT, she looked at a few sample questions, thought the whole test seemed kind of dumb, didn't bother prepping, and got a 36. She didn't prep at all for the SAT, and still got a 1520. Smart kids should have no trouble getting high scores even without prep. If a kid earns a lower score on one of these tests, it's not because the kid was too poor to afford prep classes.

[Anonymous]

The qualifications for TJ should be 100% based on in school activities and measurements. If you have a problem with that, you have a problem with the middle schools, and that is more important to fix than TJ admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is prepping really that advantageous for tests like ACT aspire and PSAT? My DD looked through maybe a couple sample tests in a $20 PSAT prep book, and then proceeded to get a 1500/224 NMSI. For the ACT, she looked at a few sample questions, thought the whole test seemed kind of dumb, didn't bother prepping, and got a 36. She didn't prep at all for the SAT, and still got a 1520. Smart kids should have no trouble getting high scores even without prep. If a kid earns a lower score on one of these tests, it's not because the kid was too poor to afford prep classes.

Prepping just means studying. It’s not smart, it’s smart and studious, and understanding that the test is a dumb game (race against the clock, don’t be dumb enough to read the passages presented), not something to treat with academic respect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Affluent families who could afford test prep programs were buying their kids an unfair advantage in admissions.

In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin [FCPS School Board] asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”


TJ students and others have publicly acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy and that test prep companies have a "cache of previous and example prompts".

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”


TJ students admitted that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl


https://katedalby.com/get-tj-update/
The math required for the test is basic math, algebra, and geometry. In the past, we have used old SAT tests from 30 years ago augmented with select problems to mimic the Quant Q. In order to adapt to the changes, we will increase the number of permutation and combination problems in response to students’ observations about the math last fall.


https://www.optimaltjprep.com/
““M. said that the  math questions were very similar to the challenge problems she did with you in classes.” - C.R. (Mother, after 2018-19 test)
“E. said that the  math questions were very close to what she did with you during the last 2 sessions. To quote her exactly: 'Dr, Tripathi's math problems were dead on point.'  We really appreciate your help with her preparation for the test!” - L.R. (Father, after 2017-18 test)”

Many videos showing how to solve actual SIS math questions on TJ admissions tests:
https://www.youtube.com/@katedalbysinspiringtestpre864/videos
https://www.youtube.com/@EduAvenuesTJTestPrep
https://www.youtube.com/@principiatutorsconsultants4395/videos

Quant Q prep books are available online everywhere.

It doesn’t matter that the IP owner doesn’t publish them. Thousands of people have seen the test and shared what they saw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fcps.edu/news/offers-extended-thomas-jefferson-high-school-science-and-technology-class-2029

Offers made to "academically wealthy feeders" (schools with most advanced STEM students):
Carson Middle School - 48
Cooper Middle School - 25
Longfellow Middle School - 48
Rocky Run Middle School - 22

The term “academically wealthy feeders” is used by certain posters on this forum, with a tone of envy, to describe top-ranked middle schools that consistently produce a large number of hardworking, advanced STEM students, and FCPS proudly mentions them in the TJ offers news releases.

My kid attends Carson and will be applying for TJ next year. We are upper middle class and have been able to provide them with math competition classes, STEM extra curriculars, and STEM camps because they enjoy them. I would expect that their STEM resume looks better than a FARMs kid from Poe who is interested in STEM and a strong student but does not have the same access to extra-curricular activities. I don't have a problem with the new admission system making sure that kid from Poe has a chance to attend TJ even if he is starting with less of a STEM base then my kid. The kid from Poe shouldn't be penalized because his parents couldn't afford the same opportunities we could.

There are ways to tweak the current admissions process that would improve the selection process. Increase the GPA to 3.75 and require all Honors classes. Math classes should be given a weight. 1 point for Algebra 2, .5 points for Geometry. That would mean that the more advanced math kids at schools like Carson, Cooper, Longfellow, and Rocky Run would be more likely to be in the top 1.5% and at the top of the general pool while not penalizing the kid at Poe who didn't have the same opportunities to accelerate in math.

But TJ is a public school that should be available to all the kids in our area if they meet the criteria. The old system favored kids whose parents could pay for enrichment. Adding the quota for each school opens the school to additional kids and there is nothing wrong with that.

TJ admits still come, overwhelmingly, from wealthier schools. Idk why you say the new system is an improvement.

DP, but there are now kids from ALL middle schools. Previously, many schools were shut out.

Academic excellence is not evenly distributed by geography, wealth or race. By the time 8th grade comes around, cognitive ability has already been fairly will developed and just going to TJ isn't going to make someone smarter if they are not prepared.

Right. Money buys "academic excellence".

https://record.umich.edu/articles/research-shows-how-wealth-begets-educational-disparity/
"The greatest impact of wealth on educational success came in years 6-12, which echoes previous studies on income’s impact on success. "

If money is what bought academic success, we would see more academic success among white and less academic success among Asians.

The article mentions expectations and I can attest that expectations in Asian families are pretty high.

The article refers to educational enrichment as if only the wealthy can afford to take their kids to museums or pay for educational enrichment. And yet generations of poor Asians have managed to make these investments in their children's human capital.

What "buys" academic success over the long run is prioritizing education over other things.

It is impossible to explain the yawning gap in educational achievement between Asians and whites by pointing to some wealth advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fcps.edu/news/offers-extended-thomas-jefferson-high-school-science-and-technology-class-2029

Offers made to "academically wealthy feeders" (schools with most advanced STEM students):
Carson Middle School - 48
Cooper Middle School - 25
Longfellow Middle School - 48
Rocky Run Middle School - 22

The term “academically wealthy feeders” is used by certain posters on this forum, with a tone of envy, to describe top-ranked middle schools that consistently produce a large number of hardworking, advanced STEM students, and FCPS proudly mentions them in the TJ offers news releases.

My kid attends Carson and will be applying for TJ next year. We are upper middle class and have been able to provide them with math competition classes, STEM extra curriculars, and STEM camps because they enjoy them. I would expect that their STEM resume looks better than a FARMs kid from Poe who is interested in STEM and a strong student but does not have the same access to extra-curricular activities. I don't have a problem with the new admission system making sure that kid from Poe has a chance to attend TJ even if he is starting with less of a STEM base then my kid. The kid from Poe shouldn't be penalized because his parents couldn't afford the same opportunities we could.

There are ways to tweak the current admissions process that would improve the selection process. Increase the GPA to 3.75 and require all Honors classes. Math classes should be given a weight. 1 point for Algebra 2, .5 points for Geometry. That would mean that the more advanced math kids at schools like Carson, Cooper, Longfellow, and Rocky Run would be more likely to be in the top 1.5% and at the top of the general pool while not penalizing the kid at Poe who didn't have the same opportunities to accelerate in math.

But TJ is a public school that should be available to all the kids in our area if they meet the criteria. The old system favored kids whose parents could pay for enrichment. Adding the quota for each school opens the school to additional kids and there is nothing wrong with that.

TJ admits still come, overwhelmingly, from wealthier schools. Idk why you say the new system is an improvement.

DP, but there are now kids from ALL middle schools. Previously, many schools were shut out.

Academic excellence is not evenly distributed by geography, wealth or race. By the time 8th grade comes around, cognitive ability has already been fairly will developed and just going to TJ isn't going to make someone smarter if they are not prepared.

Right. Money buys "academic excellence".

https://record.umich.edu/articles/research-shows-how-wealth-begets-educational-disparity/
"The greatest impact of wealth on educational success came in years 6-12, which echoes previous studies on income’s impact on success. "

If money is what bought academic success, we would see more academic success among white and less academic success among Asians.

The article mentions expectations and I can attest that expectations in Asian families are pretty high.

The article refers to educational enrichment as if only the wealthy can afford to take their kids to museums or pay for educational enrichment. And yet generations of poor Asians have managed to make these investments in their children's human capital.

What "buys" academic success over the long run is prioritizing education over other things.

It is impossible to explain the yawning gap in educational achievement between Asians and whites by pointing to some wealth advantage.

We can all see how Asian kids from economically-disadvantaged families were almost completely shut out from TJ before the admissions change.

Money buys "academic excellence".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fcps.edu/news/offers-extended-thomas-jefferson-high-school-science-and-technology-class-2029

Offers made to "academically wealthy feeders" (schools with most advanced STEM students):
Carson Middle School - 48
Cooper Middle School - 25
Longfellow Middle School - 48
Rocky Run Middle School - 22

The term “academically wealthy feeders” is used by certain posters on this forum, with a tone of envy, to describe top-ranked middle schools that consistently produce a large number of hardworking, advanced STEM students, and FCPS proudly mentions them in the TJ offers news releases.

My kid attends Carson and will be applying for TJ next year. We are upper middle class and have been able to provide them with math competition classes, STEM extra curriculars, and STEM camps because they enjoy them. I would expect that their STEM resume looks better than a FARMs kid from Poe who is interested in STEM and a strong student but does not have the same access to extra-curricular activities. I don't have a problem with the new admission system making sure that kid from Poe has a chance to attend TJ even if he is starting with less of a STEM base then my kid. The kid from Poe shouldn't be penalized because his parents couldn't afford the same opportunities we could.

There are ways to tweak the current admissions process that would improve the selection process. Increase the GPA to 3.75 and require all Honors classes. Math classes should be given a weight. 1 point for Algebra 2, .5 points for Geometry. That would mean that the more advanced math kids at schools like Carson, Cooper, Longfellow, and Rocky Run would be more likely to be in the top 1.5% and at the top of the general pool while not penalizing the kid at Poe who didn't have the same opportunities to accelerate in math.

But TJ is a public school that should be available to all the kids in our area if they meet the criteria. The old system favored kids whose parents could pay for enrichment. Adding the quota for each school opens the school to additional kids and there is nothing wrong with that.

TJ admits still come, overwhelmingly, from wealthier schools. Idk why you say the new system is an improvement.

DP, but there are now kids from ALL middle schools. Previously, many schools were shut out.

Academic excellence is not evenly distributed by geography, wealth or race. By the time 8th grade comes around, cognitive ability has already been fairly will developed and just going to TJ isn't going to make someone smarter if they are not prepared.

Right. Money buys "academic excellence".

https://record.umich.edu/articles/research-shows-how-wealth-begets-educational-disparity/
"The greatest impact of wealth on educational success came in years 6-12, which echoes previous studies on income’s impact on success. "

If money is what bought academic success, we would see more academic success among white and less academic success among Asians.

The article mentions expectations and I can attest that expectations in Asian families are pretty high.

The article refers to educational enrichment as if only the wealthy can afford to take their kids to museums or pay for educational enrichment. And yet generations of poor Asians have managed to make these investments in their children's human capital.

What "buys" academic success over the long run is prioritizing education over other things.

It is impossible to explain the yawning gap in educational achievement between Asians and whites by pointing to some wealth advantage.

We can all see how Asian kids from economically-disadvantaged families were almost completely shut out from TJ before the admissions change.

Money buys "academic excellence".

Where are we all seeing this? I have never seen a chart showing how many economically disadvantaged Asian kids are admitted to TJ before or after the admissions change.

Can ANYONE on this board please provide a link to this data? I have asked many times and have never once seen the data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fcps.edu/news/offers-extended-thomas-jefferson-high-school-science-and-technology-class-2029

Offers made to "academically wealthy feeders" (schools with most advanced STEM students):
Carson Middle School - 48
Cooper Middle School - 25
Longfellow Middle School - 48
Rocky Run Middle School - 22

The term “academically wealthy feeders” is used by certain posters on this forum, with a tone of envy, to describe top-ranked middle schools that consistently produce a large number of hardworking, advanced STEM students, and FCPS proudly mentions them in the TJ offers news releases.

That happen to have lower FRE % than other middle schools.

The “Academically Wealthy Feeder” middle schools for the most part have more students in the AAP Program (students identified by FCPS as academically advanced).

These are the middle schools with 10 or more admits to TJ for the class of 2029 showing the percent of students at the school that are designated level IV AAP.

Cooper - 52% AAP Level IV (25 admits)
Kilmer - 51% AAP Level IV (13 admits)
Longfellow - 64% AAP Level IV (48 admits)
Rocky Run - 54% AAP Level IV (22 admits)
Frost - 45% AAP Level IV (19 admits)
Lake Braddock - 41% AAP Level IV (17 admits)
Katherine Johnson - 32% AAP Level IV (14 admits)
Carson - 32% AAP Level IV (48 admits)**

**Carson - has a lower percent of Level IV AAP students, but has 709 8th graders this year (the 2nd largest 8th grade class in the county) & typically has the largest number of students applying to TJ. Carson would have more AAP 8th graders than Cooper/Rocky Run based on 8th grade class size.

It makes sense that schools with the highest number of Advanced Academic students would have the most acceptances. It also makes sense that schools with the more students applying would have more acceptances.

Schools with the lowest percent of students in Level IV AAP:

Poe - 9%
Whitman - 13%
Liberty - 20%
Hayfield - 21%
Key - 22%
Stone - 25%
Holmes - 26%

Schools that were allocated 10 students as part of the 1.5%, but had less than 10 students accepted:
Robinson
Sandburg
Irving

This means that these schools didn’t have at least 10 students that applied to TJ with the minimum qualifications to be accepted (Algebra I Honors by 8th grade and a 3.5 overall GPA).

The other 15 FCPS middle schools with less than 10 students admitted also likely had only a small number of qualified students applying to TJ.

People can keep complaining about “Wealthy Feeder Middle Schools” always having so many students accepted, but the true reason that these schools have so many students accepted even without the so called “test cheating” is because these schools have MORE STUDENTS APPLYING. The schools have more students eligible to apply & actually applying, that is why more students are accepted.

TJ admissions committee, even with all of the changes to admissions based on “equity” can’t admit 48 students to the other schools because they don’t have enough students applying!!!!!!!!

Which is why we look at the acceptance RATE, not just the absolute numbers.

For the class of 2024:


The wealthier the school, the higher the chance of getting into the pool and ultimately being accepted.

The cutoff score on Quant Q to make it to the pool for the class of 2024 was 50/100. Any student who couldn’t score a 50 (even without prep) clearly wasn’t prepared for an academically rigorous STEM school.

Please read through this document to see all of the things done over the years to try to “improve” diversity at TJ that have all failed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fcps.edu/news/offers-extended-thomas-jefferson-high-school-science-and-technology-class-2029

Offers made to "academically wealthy feeders" (schools with most advanced STEM students):
Carson Middle School - 48
Cooper Middle School - 25
Longfellow Middle School - 48
Rocky Run Middle School - 22

The term “academically wealthy feeders” is used by certain posters on this forum, with a tone of envy, to describe top-ranked middle schools that consistently produce a large number of hardworking, advanced STEM students, and FCPS proudly mentions them in the TJ offers news releases.

My kid attends Carson and will be applying for TJ next year. We are upper middle class and have been able to provide them with math competition classes, STEM extra curriculars, and STEM camps because they enjoy them. I would expect that their STEM resume looks better than a FARMs kid from Poe who is interested in STEM and a strong student but does not have the same access to extra-curricular activities. I don't have a problem with the new admission system making sure that kid from Poe has a chance to attend TJ even if he is starting with less of a STEM base then my kid. The kid from Poe shouldn't be penalized because his parents couldn't afford the same opportunities we could.

There are ways to tweak the current admissions process that would improve the selection process. Increase the GPA to 3.75 and require all Honors classes. Math classes should be given a weight. 1 point for Algebra 2, .5 points for Geometry. That would mean that the more advanced math kids at schools like Carson, Cooper, Longfellow, and Rocky Run would be more likely to be in the top 1.5% and at the top of the general pool while not penalizing the kid at Poe who didn't have the same opportunities to accelerate in math.

But TJ is a public school that should be available to all the kids in our area if they meet the criteria. The old system favored kids whose parents could pay for enrichment. Adding the quota for each school opens the school to additional kids and there is nothing wrong with that.

TJ admits still come, overwhelmingly, from wealthier schools. Idk why you say the new system is an improvement.

DP, but there are now kids from ALL middle schools. Previously, many schools were shut out.

Academic excellence is not evenly distributed by geography, wealth or race. By the time 8th grade comes around, cognitive ability has already been fairly will developed and just going to TJ isn't going to make someone smarter if they are not prepared.

Right. Money buys "academic excellence".

https://record.umich.edu/articles/research-shows-how-wealth-begets-educational-disparity/
"The greatest impact of wealth on educational success came in years 6-12, which echoes previous studies on income’s impact on success. "

If money is what bought academic success, we would see more academic success among white and less academic success among Asians.

The article mentions expectations and I can attest that expectations in Asian families are pretty high.

The article refers to educational enrichment as if only the wealthy can afford to take their kids to museums or pay for educational enrichment. And yet generations of poor Asians have managed to make these investments in their children's human capital.

What "buys" academic success over the long run is prioritizing education over other things.

It is impossible to explain the yawning gap in educational achievement between Asians and whites by pointing to some wealth advantage.

We can all see how Asian kids from economically-disadvantaged families were almost completely shut out from TJ before the admissions change.

Money buys "academic excellence".

Where are we all seeing this? I have never seen a chart showing how many economically disadvantaged Asian kids are admitted to TJ before or after the admissions change.

Can ANYONE on this board please provide a link to this data? I have asked many times and have never once seen the data.

It's been posted many times over the years.

https://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinions/221280.P.pdf
page 16
"Nevertheless, in the 2021 application cycle, Asian American students attending middle schools historically underrepresented at TJ saw a sixfold increase in offers, and the number of low-income Asian American admittees to TJ increased to 51 — from a mere one in 2020."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Affluent families who could afford test prep programs were buying their kids an unfair advantage in admissions.

In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin [FCPS School Board] asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”


TJ students and others have publicly acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy and that test prep companies have a "cache of previous and example prompts".

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”


TJ students admitted that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl


https://katedalby.com/get-tj-update/
The math required for the test is basic math, algebra, and geometry. In the past, we have used old SAT tests from 30 years ago augmented with select problems to mimic the Quant Q. In order to adapt to the changes, we will increase the number of permutation and combination problems in response to students’ observations about the math last fall.


https://www.optimaltjprep.com/
““M. said that the  math questions were very similar to the challenge problems she did with you in classes.” - C.R. (Mother, after 2018-19 test)
“E. said that the  math questions were very close to what she did with you during the last 2 sessions. To quote her exactly: 'Dr, Tripathi's math problems were dead on point.'  We really appreciate your help with her preparation for the test!” - L.R. (Father, after 2017-18 test)”

Many videos showing how to solve actual SIS math questions on TJ admissions tests:
https://www.youtube.com/@katedalbysinspiringtestpre864/videos
https://www.youtube.com/@EduAvenuesTJTestPrep
https://www.youtube.com/@principiatutorsconsultants4395/videos

If all this is true and your conclusions are correct, then why did we saw no increase in FARM students with the first administration of the quant Q test?

What did the quant Q test have as statistically insignificant impact on who got in relative to other years?

Nobody could prep or study for quant Q because nobody knew what was on the test. So why didn't we see the sort of results you seem to think we would get if all the Asians weren't cheating?

I was explaining the rationale behind the change to Quant-Q, not that it was successful. Any test prep is still better than no test prep.

Some good insights IMO:
"Almost every year since I applied to TJ, the Admissions Office has transformed its admissions process; though this purportedly prevents tutors from coaching students to a test, in actuality, this only makes it harder for disadvantaged groups to help themselves prepare for the exam.

The set of skills needed to excel at the exam is different from the one that’s typically taught in schools: for those who haven’t been taking test prep for years, this may as well be the first time that they’ve taken a timed, standardized test. For those who’ve prepared for years, frequent practice exams and sample prompts allow them to gain experience taking 3 hour multiple choice exams like the Quant-Q/ACT-Aspire. As a senior who went through more than three years of TJ prep classes, the contrast between tuition-based courses and free outreach programs is saddening because tuition-based programs simply have more time and money: the competitive culture that fuels TJ prep encourages students to take classes from elementary school while parents’ money purchases the best prep books and hires the best teachers.

Given the additional vague guidelines, little guidance, and a complete lack of prep material, TJ Admissions and its applicant site denies ordinary people, those without access to expensive courses, the opportunity to get ahead. The gap between applicant and finalist demographics continues to widen as fewer and fewer preparatory resources are made public for applicants."

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/

This is not data, this is the self flagellating of virtue signaling middle class kids bemoaning their privilege of being able to afford $2000/year program at places like curie.

Everyone took the quant Q cold that first year. The bottom that multiple choice exams are some secret format is stupid. Strategy and tactics on taking unspecified multiple choice exams is exceedingly thin and can be covered in an afternoon.

It's certainly not enough to explain the statistically similar results with quant Q vs the previous test by pointing at test prep.

Test prep is just dog whistle for "Asians are cheating". Which is just dog whistle for Asians are sneaky, conniving, greedy, immoral and unethical. Pretty much the same stereotype that Jews faced when they were first a model minority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Affluent families who could afford test prep programs were buying their kids an unfair advantage in admissions.

In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin [FCPS School Board] asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”


TJ students and others have publicly acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy and that test prep companies have a "cache of previous and example prompts".

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”


TJ students admitted that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl


https://katedalby.com/get-tj-update/
The math required for the test is basic math, algebra, and geometry. In the past, we have used old SAT tests from 30 years ago augmented with select problems to mimic the Quant Q. In order to adapt to the changes, we will increase the number of permutation and combination problems in response to students’ observations about the math last fall.


https://www.optimaltjprep.com/
““M. said that the  math questions were very similar to the challenge problems she did with you in classes.” - C.R. (Mother, after 2018-19 test)
“E. said that the  math questions were very close to what she did with you during the last 2 sessions. To quote her exactly: 'Dr, Tripathi's math problems were dead on point.'  We really appreciate your help with her preparation for the test!” - L.R. (Father, after 2017-18 test)”

Many videos showing how to solve actual SIS math questions on TJ admissions tests:
https://www.youtube.com/@katedalbysinspiringtestpre864/videos
https://www.youtube.com/@EduAvenuesTJTestPrep
https://www.youtube.com/@principiatutorsconsultants4395/videos

If all this is true and your conclusions are correct, then why did we saw no increase in FARM students with the first administration of the quant Q test?

What did the quant Q test have as statistically insignificant impact on who got in relative to other years?

Nobody could prep or study for quant Q because nobody knew what was on the test. So why didn't we see the sort of results you seem to think we would get if all the Asians weren't cheating?

I was explaining the rationale behind the change to Quant-Q, not that it was successful. Any test prep is still better than no test prep.

Some good insights IMO:
"Almost every year since I applied to TJ, the Admissions Office has transformed its admissions process; though this purportedly prevents tutors from coaching students to a test, in actuality, this only makes it harder for disadvantaged groups to help themselves prepare for the exam.

The set of skills needed to excel at the exam is different from the one that’s typically taught in schools: for those who haven’t been taking test prep for years, this may as well be the first time that they’ve taken a timed, standardized test. For those who’ve prepared for years, frequent practice exams and sample prompts allow them to gain experience taking 3 hour multiple choice exams like the Quant-Q/ACT-Aspire. As a senior who went through more than three years of TJ prep classes, the contrast between tuition-based courses and free outreach programs is saddening because tuition-based programs simply have more time and money: the competitive culture that fuels TJ prep encourages students to take classes from elementary school while parents’ money purchases the best prep books and hires the best teachers.

Given the additional vague guidelines, little guidance, and a complete lack of prep material, TJ Admissions and its applicant site denies ordinary people, those without access to expensive courses, the opportunity to get ahead. The gap between applicant and finalist demographics continues to widen as fewer and fewer preparatory resources are made public for applicants."

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/

This is not data, this is the self flagellating of virtue signaling middle class kids bemoaning their privilege of being able to afford $2000/year program at places like curie.

Everyone took the quant Q cold that first year. The bottom that multiple choice exams are some secret format is stupid. Strategy and tactics on taking unspecified multiple choice exams is exceedingly thin and can be covered in an afternoon.

It's certainly not enough to explain the statistically similar results with quant Q vs the previous test by pointing at test prep.

Test prep is just dog whistle for "Asians are cheating". Which is just dog whistle for Asians are sneaky, conniving, greedy, immoral and unethical. Pretty much the same stereotype that Jews faced when they were first a model minority.

"Test prep" has never been limited to Asian families. And it's not just limited an afternoon of test taking strategies.

There is a robust test prep industry that caters to all flavors of wealthy people. Even today.