How many actual “late term” terminations actually happen? Actual reasons?

[Anonymous]

It's got to be super rare because I think it would be really hard to find a doctor who would do it. In the After Tiller documentary with the last remaining doctors who do these abortions they do say very occasionally they'll get someone seeking a purely elective 3rd trimester abortion and with no other factors, they're counseled out to delivery and adoption. Fully elective isn't in line with what they feel is a helping vocation and, frankly, from a business standpoint it is hard enough to obtain this service they're focused on helping women get through a traumatic period in their lives, not assisting some random whackadoodle. So you can't just like, turn up with 35k and get your abortion.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

You have gotten plenty of answers on that. Why don’t you respond to them?

So: you don’t know the answer.

Why did you respond to a question with a question? Still no data?

Why did you ignore this post?

“KFF:

While very limited contemporary data exists on this issue, a study from 1992 estimated 0.02% of all abortions occurred after 26 weeks gestation (320 to 600 cases per year).

https://www.kff.org/women...dobbs-era/“

Because shes asking for elective. The data you provided likely includes elective and medically necessary.

So elective ranges from 320 to 600, probably less as has been covered in great detail here. What difference will it make to know the exact number in what is already an infinitesimal number of all abortions performed?

You are obviously not a scientist or social scientist and you have no idea how to comprehensively read. 320-600 is NOT the elective range. That is the total of ALL abortions performed after 26 weeks in 1992, when the number of pregnancies was a out 150% higher than today and when the number of abortions per 100K live births was also higher.

If there were 320-600 abortions after 26 weeks in 1992, then that would correspond to about 190-360 abortions (TOTAL) in 2023. And we assume at least 75% of those abortions were medically necessary for the health or life of the mother or because the baby's chance of life without pain or torment or quality of life would be zero or negative. So, we are looking at more like 45-90 out of probably over 4M pregnancies per year. That corresponds to 0.001% - 0.002% of pregnancies annually. That's between 1/1000 and 2/1000 of a percent of all pregnancies. This seems like an awfully small percentage of actual pregnancies and a much, much smaller percentage than the number of women whose life, health or fertility are threatened by draconian rules imposed because doctors cannot sort out the legal instances where they can legally recommend abortion without risking their medical license and possibly jail time for assisting with an abortion. This is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. You will kill many more pregnant mothers than you will save infants that have medical issues that they have a small percentage chance to survive past their infancy.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

Did you read the linked study from the lady who talked to 3rd trimester abortion recipients? There is no universal data collection on these things I work on a cancer screening and prevention program for underinsured and uninsured women, and it takes lots of money and funding to collect and process the data you are asking for.

The biggest hump to collecting this data is that all abortion providers after the 3rd trimester are private businesses. Any federal insurance- whether for employees or for those who receive medicaid/medicare- does not allow for use of the insurance to receive an abortion (AT ANY STAGE!) which would be the easiest way to track and extrapolate the data you seem obsessed with.

Improving access to healthcare- including abortions- for all women would decrease the statistically insignificant number of 3rd trimester abortions to begin with. Finding out you are pregnant sooner and being able to access care effectively and quickly are literally the determinants to when abortions occur. Funds are also a huge determining factor. If you have to come up with 1k because you have to pay OOP, its not happening.

Just clarifying that ALL abortion providers are private businesses not just 3rd trimester. My understanding is they cant be compelled to provide that data, even if the CDC wanted to collect it due to privacy but someone with a law degree can correct me if necessary.

Thank you, and I think this is an important point here (I’m the OP btw).

I agreed with someone on page 2 or so who posited probably no one is keeping track of the numbers, so there probably is no clear answer.

I was still hoping maybe someone knew, or had a reliable data-set for an accurate estimate. But your point is well-taken and AGAIN: I agree:

- it does not appear the number is available because no one is keeping track (not even the CDC).

And since we all agree this is a private matter between the person having the abortion and their doctor (again - I AM pro choice), my thought is: it’s probably impossible and maybe better that the government is not keeping track. I believe we should keep it that way.

However, not knowing the number of elective 3rd trimester terminations people are having leaves the debate more open to emotional arguments (from both sides).

I’ve asked repeatedly to keep politics out of this. Unfortunately, politics benefits when we can’t even nail down the facts.

Thanks to those who have at least tried to illuminate the issue, so people can make their own choices (and have I mentioned I’m pro choice yet?).

Hon. Hon.

We do know how many elective third trimester abortions there are: zero.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are quibbling about negligible numbers, op.
People have linked the stats.
300-600 of those procedures are performed yearly.
Even if every single one of them was just some murderous slut that wanted to kill a beautiful, perfect, cherubic, blonde curled, blued eyed, Gerber model-like baby, it would be a statistically irrelevant number.
And we know it’s insignificant, because Covid was fatal to 1% of the US population.
And people did not GAF.
You are inquiring about .01

It's even more extreme. Your off at least 2 orders of magnitude (4 if you were talking straight proportion rather than percentage). It is 0.0001% or 0.000001 if you aren't using percentages. That's the estimated number of elective abortions after 26 weeks out of over 4M pregnancies every year.

Now, compare that to to the 32.9 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births.
For comparison, the total number of abortions after 26W is 0.8 per 100,000 live births.

So there are 40 times more mothers dying in childbirth every year than are having any type of abortion after 26W, let alone elective ones.

So, why does OP, who claims to be pro-choice, want to push the agenda that number of third trimester abortions is statistically significant. Many more mothers will die from childbirth complications if these laws are put into effect than the number of babies who will be aborted. Add in that the maternal mortality number does NOT include those women who will develop lifelong health complications, lose their fertility or possibly be hospitalized for weeks due to chronic conditions like sepsis. It also does not take into account that many of those 0.8 abortions per 100K were due to conditions that the infants could not survive without medical intervention, significant pain and complete lack of any form of quality of life. So she wants to find numbers that force infants who have no perception of the world, will be in pain, will have to survive on medical equipment having oxygen forced into their lungs, just to that they can be born and live days or weeks.

This ban on late-term abortion is cruel and inhumane to both the infants and to mothers. There is no one that is having elective abortions for healthy babies that will not have any medical complications. ZERO. Neither of the two remaining abortion providers who will handle third trimester abortions would condone the abortions for any baby that can survive by itself outside the womb without medical intervention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's got to be super rare because I think it would be really hard to find a doctor who would do it. In the After Tiller documentary with the last remaining doctors who do these abortions they do say very occasionally they'll get someone seeking a purely elective 3rd trimester abortion and with no other factors, they're counseled out to delivery and adoption. Fully elective isn't in line with what they feel is a helping vocation and, frankly, from a business standpoint it is hard enough to obtain this service they're focused on helping women get through a traumatic period in their lives, not assisting some random whackadoodle. So you can't just like, turn up with 35k and get your abortion.

+1 And one of those providers, Leroy Carhart, has since died a year ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are quibbling about negligible numbers, op.
People have linked the stats.
300-600 of those procedures are performed yearly.
Even if every single one of them was just some murderous slut that wanted to kill a beautiful, perfect, cherubic, blonde curled, blued eyed, Gerber model-like baby, it would be a statistically irrelevant number.
And we know it’s insignificant, because Covid was fatal to 1% of the US population.
And people did not GAF.
You are inquiring about .01

It's even more extreme. Your off at least 2 orders of magnitude (4 if you were talking straight proportion rather than percentage). It is 0.0001% or 0.000001 if you aren't using percentages. That's the estimated number of elective abortions after 26 weeks out of over 4M pregnancies every year.

Now, compare that to to the 32.9 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births.
For comparison, the total number of abortions after 26W is 0.8 per 100,000 live births.

So there are 40 times more mothers dying in childbirth every year than are having any type of abortion after 26W, let alone elective ones.

So, why does OP, who claims to be pro-choice, want to push the agenda that number of third trimester abortions is statistically significant. Many more mothers will die from childbirth complications if these laws are put into effect than the number of babies who will be aborted. Add in that the maternal mortality number does NOT include those women who will develop lifelong health complications, lose their fertility or possibly be hospitalized for weeks due to chronic conditions like sepsis. It also does not take into account that many of those 0.8 abortions per 100K were due to conditions that the infants could not survive without medical intervention, significant pain and complete lack of any form of quality of life. So she wants to find numbers that force infants who have no perception of the world, will be in pain, will have to survive on medical equipment having oxygen forced into their lungs, just to that they can be born and live days or weeks.

This ban on late-term abortion is cruel and inhumane to both the infants and to mothers. There is no one that is having elective abortions for healthy babies that will not have any medical complications. ZERO. Neither of the two remaining abortion providers who will handle third trimester abortions would condone the abortions for any baby that can survive by itself outside the womb without medical intervention.

NP. Thank you for bringing these facts. The amount of mis and disinformation around abortion is staggering.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:NP. This is an issue for me too, OP. I’m very pro-choice in first semester and I think women should be allowed to terminate at the anatomy scan (which is not always at 20 weeks, could be 1-2 weeks later to be fair). After that point, I think abortions should be banned unless there’s a very compelling medical reason for the baby or the mother.

I also hear things like “that almost never happens! Right wing talking point!” and if that’s true, I don’t see why anyone would have a problem with a law against it. It’s either happening or it’s not. And it shouldn’t, IMO.

I read something that said the vast majority of Americans have this middle of the road, sensible view on abortion. So I don’t know why we need to choose between one extreme or the other. The crazies on both sides drive me nuts.

One extreme is "no abortions period"
The other is, it should be illegal in the third term except in the instance of the fetus or mother's life is at risk.

What are the crazies on the latter?

Yes, when Roe was the law of the land, almost all states had restrictions on abortions in the third trimester, which starts at week 27/28.

And after Roe, states like New York relaxed their restrictions on late abortion.

That is a complete lie.

There are only 2 doctors in america that actually perform 3rd tri abortions and they are 25-35k before travel costs. NO ONE is waking up one morning and chosing this.

They are the only option for women who are in dire MEDICAL need.

Stop lying. What I wrote is factually and demonstrably correct.

CBS News: New York state has enacted strong new legal protections for abortion rights. The new law, signed by Governor Andrew Cuomo on Tuesday, safeguards rights laid out in Roe v. Wade and other court rulings, including a provision permitting late-term abortions when a woman's health is endangered, The Associated Press reports. The state's previous law, which had been on the books for nearly 50 years, only permitted abortions after 24 weeks of pregnancy if a woman's life was at risk.

So what’s your problem? Women aren’t choosing late-term abortions for $hits and giggles.

My problem is that you accused me of lying and I did not and I backed it up with facts.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

You have gotten plenty of answers on that. Why don’t you respond to them?

So: you don’t know the answer.

Why did you respond to a question with a question? Still no data?

Why did you ignore this post?

“KFF:

While very limited contemporary data exists on this issue, a study from 1992 estimated 0.02% of all abortions occurred after 26 weeks gestation (320 to 600 cases per year).

https://www.kff.org/women...dobbs-era/“

Because shes asking for elective. The data you provided likely includes elective and medically necessary.

And why is the cdc link on page 8 being ignored?

But more to the point, why does OP not understand that “purely elective” abortions don’t really happen late in a pregnancy? Why not comprehend that it’s just not a thing?

Because it’s not true. Multiple surveys have been posted here in which women are explaining their reasoning for obtaining elective third trimester abortions, including delays in receiving care/raising funds earlier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

Did you read the linked study from the lady who talked to 3rd trimester abortion recipients? There is no universal data collection on these things I work on a cancer screening and prevention program for underinsured and uninsured women, and it takes lots of money and funding to collect and process the data you are asking for.

The biggest hump to collecting this data is that all abortion providers after the 3rd trimester are private businesses. Any federal insurance- whether for employees or for those who receive medicaid/medicare- does not allow for use of the insurance to receive an abortion (AT ANY STAGE!) which would be the easiest way to track and extrapolate the data you seem obsessed with.

Improving access to healthcare- including abortions- for all women would decrease the statistically insignificant number of 3rd trimester abortions to begin with. Finding out you are pregnant sooner and being able to access care effectively and quickly are literally the determinants to when abortions occur. Funds are also a huge determining factor. If you have to come up with 1k because you have to pay OOP, its not happening.

Just clarifying that ALL abortion providers are private businesses not just 3rd trimester. My understanding is they cant be compelled to provide that data, even if the CDC wanted to collect it due to privacy but someone with a law degree can correct me if necessary.

Thank you, and I think this is an important point here (I’m the OP btw).

I agreed with someone on page 2 or so who posited probably no one is keeping track of the numbers, so there probably is no clear answer.

I was still hoping maybe someone knew, or had a reliable data-set for an accurate estimate. But your point is well-taken and AGAIN: I agree:

- it does not appear the number is available because no one is keeping track (not even the CDC).

And since we all agree this is a private matter between the person having the abortion and their doctor (again - I AM pro choice), my thought is: it’s probably impossible and maybe better that the government is not keeping track. I believe we should keep it that way.

However, not knowing the number of elective 3rd trimester terminations people are having leaves the debate more open to emotional arguments (from both sides).

I’ve asked repeatedly to keep politics out of this. Unfortunately, politics benefits when we can’t even nail down the facts.

Thanks to those who have at least tried to illuminate the issue, so people can make their own choices (and have I mentioned I’m pro choice yet?).

Hon. Hon.

We do know how many elective third trimester abortions there are: zero.

Flat out false. Here’s one example from the Kimport survey: “When Veronica presented for her abortion appointment, the ultrasound worker determined that she was 25 weeks pregnant. Veronica needed an abortion in the third trimester because the fact that she was pregnant was new information to her when she was already 25 weeks pregnant.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

Did you read the linked study from the lady who talked to 3rd trimester abortion recipients? There is no universal data collection on these things I work on a cancer screening and prevention program for underinsured and uninsured women, and it takes lots of money and funding to collect and process the data you are asking for.

The biggest hump to collecting this data is that all abortion providers after the 3rd trimester are private businesses. Any federal insurance- whether for employees or for those who receive medicaid/medicare- does not allow for use of the insurance to receive an abortion (AT ANY STAGE!) which would be the easiest way to track and extrapolate the data you seem obsessed with.

Improving access to healthcare- including abortions- for all women would decrease the statistically insignificant number of 3rd trimester abortions to begin with. Finding out you are pregnant sooner and being able to access care effectively and quickly are literally the determinants to when abortions occur. Funds are also a huge determining factor. If you have to come up with 1k because you have to pay OOP, its not happening.

Just clarifying that ALL abortion providers are private businesses not just 3rd trimester. My understanding is they cant be compelled to provide that data, even if the CDC wanted to collect it due to privacy but someone with a law degree can correct me if necessary.

Thank you, and I think this is an important point here (I’m the OP btw).

I agreed with someone on page 2 or so who posited probably no one is keeping track of the numbers, so there probably is no clear answer.

I was still hoping maybe someone knew, or had a reliable data-set for an accurate estimate. But your point is well-taken and AGAIN: I agree:

- it does not appear the number is available because no one is keeping track (not even the CDC).

And since we all agree this is a private matter between the person having the abortion and their doctor (again - I AM pro choice), my thought is: it’s probably impossible and maybe better that the government is not keeping track. I believe we should keep it that way.

However, not knowing the number of elective 3rd trimester terminations people are having leaves the debate more open to emotional arguments (from both sides).

I’ve asked repeatedly to keep politics out of this. Unfortunately, politics benefits when we can’t even nail down the facts.

Thanks to those who have at least tried to illuminate the issue, so people can make their own choices (and have I mentioned I’m pro choice yet?).

Hon. Hon.

We do know how many elective third trimester abortions there are: zero.

Flat out false. Here’s one example from the Kimport survey: “When Veronica presented for her abortion appointment, the ultrasound worker determined that she was 25 weeks pregnant. Veronica needed an abortion in the third trimester because the fact that she was pregnant was new information to her when she was already 25 weeks pregnant.”

One person is statistically zero.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

You have gotten plenty of answers on that. Why don’t you respond to them?

So: you don’t know the answer.

Why did you respond to a question with a question? Still no data?

Why did you ignore this post?

“KFF:

While very limited contemporary data exists on this issue, a study from 1992 estimated 0.02% of all abortions occurred after 26 weeks gestation (320 to 600 cases per year).

https://www.kff.org/women...dobbs-era/“

Because shes asking for elective. The data you provided likely includes elective and medically necessary.

And why is the cdc link on page 8 being ignored?

But more to the point, why does OP not understand that “purely elective” abortions don’t really happen late in a pregnancy? Why not comprehend that it’s just not a thing?

Because it’s not true. Multiple surveys have been posted here in which women are explaining their reasoning for obtaining elective third trimester abortions, including delays in receiving care/raising funds earlier.

That “study” is junk science. No attempt to verify information was done. It’s worthless.
We have rough numbers and the word of doctors who have taken the Hippocratic oath.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

Did you read the linked study from the lady who talked to 3rd trimester abortion recipients? There is no universal data collection on these things I work on a cancer screening and prevention program for underinsured and uninsured women, and it takes lots of money and funding to collect and process the data you are asking for.

The biggest hump to collecting this data is that all abortion providers after the 3rd trimester are private businesses. Any federal insurance- whether for employees or for those who receive medicaid/medicare- does not allow for use of the insurance to receive an abortion (AT ANY STAGE!) which would be the easiest way to track and extrapolate the data you seem obsessed with.

Improving access to healthcare- including abortions- for all women would decrease the statistically insignificant number of 3rd trimester abortions to begin with. Finding out you are pregnant sooner and being able to access care effectively and quickly are literally the determinants to when abortions occur. Funds are also a huge determining factor. If you have to come up with 1k because you have to pay OOP, its not happening.

Just clarifying that ALL abortion providers are private businesses not just 3rd trimester. My understanding is they cant be compelled to provide that data, even if the CDC wanted to collect it due to privacy but someone with a law degree can correct me if necessary.

Thank you, and I think this is an important point here (I’m the OP btw).

I agreed with someone on page 2 or so who posited probably no one is keeping track of the numbers, so there probably is no clear answer.

I was still hoping maybe someone knew, or had a reliable data-set for an accurate estimate. But your point is well-taken and AGAIN: I agree:

- it does not appear the number is available because no one is keeping track (not even the CDC).

And since we all agree this is a private matter between the person having the abortion and their doctor (again - I AM pro choice), my thought is: it’s probably impossible and maybe better that the government is not keeping track. I believe we should keep it that way.

However, not knowing the number of elective 3rd trimester terminations people are having leaves the debate more open to emotional arguments (from both sides).

I’ve asked repeatedly to keep politics out of this. Unfortunately, politics benefits when we can’t even nail down the facts.

Thanks to those who have at least tried to illuminate the issue, so people can make their own choices (and have I mentioned I’m pro choice yet?).

Hon. Hon.

We do know how many elective third trimester abortions there are: zero.

Flat out false. Here’s one example from the Kimport survey: “When Veronica presented for her abortion appointment, the ultrasound worker determined that she was 25 weeks pregnant. Veronica needed an abortion in the third trimester because the fact that she was pregnant was new information to her when she was already 25 weeks pregnant.”

One person is statistically zero.

Oh for heavens sake. There is an entire survey linked with women’s rationales.

We know it’s not zero and we know it’s not more than 3-600. Sorry this seems to disturb you but those are the facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

You have gotten plenty of answers on that. Why don’t you respond to them?

So: you don’t know the answer.

Why did you respond to a question with a question? Still no data?

Why did you ignore this post?

“KFF:

While very limited contemporary data exists on this issue, a study from 1992 estimated 0.02% of all abortions occurred after 26 weeks gestation (320 to 600 cases per year).

https://www.kff.org/women...dobbs-era/“

Because shes asking for elective. The data you provided likely includes elective and medically necessary.

And why is the cdc link on page 8 being ignored?

But more to the point, why does OP not understand that “purely elective” abortions don’t really happen late in a pregnancy? Why not comprehend that it’s just not a thing?

Because it’s not true. Multiple surveys have been posted here in which women are explaining their reasoning for obtaining elective third trimester abortions, including delays in receiving care/raising funds earlier.

That “study” is junk science. No attempt to verify information was done. It’s worthless.
We have rough numbers and the word of doctors who have taken the Hippocratic oath.

It was peer reviewed and published so…no. The fact that you don’t like the survey doesn’t make it worthless. No doctors have said that there are zero elective abortions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

You have gotten plenty of answers on that. Why don’t you respond to them?

So: you don’t know the answer.

Why did you respond to a question with a question? Still no data?

Why did you ignore this post?

“KFF:

While very limited contemporary data exists on this issue, a study from 1992 estimated 0.02% of all abortions occurred after 26 weeks gestation (320 to 600 cases per year).

https://www.kff.org/women...dobbs-era/“

Because shes asking for elective. The data you provided likely includes elective and medically necessary.

Actually she asked for both. Her header is for the number and reasons and then she also asked about elective in her post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

You have gotten plenty of answers on that. Why don’t you respond to them?

So: you don’t know the answer.

Why did you respond to a question with a question? Still no data?

Why did you ignore this post?

“KFF:

While very limited contemporary data exists on this issue, a study from 1992 estimated 0.02% of all abortions occurred after 26 weeks gestation (320 to 600 cases per year).

https://www.kff.org/women...dobbs-era/“

Because shes asking for elective. The data you provided likely includes elective and medically necessary.

And why is the cdc link on page 8 being ignored?

But more to the point, why does OP not understand that “purely elective” abortions don’t really happen late in a pregnancy? Why not comprehend that it’s just not a thing?

Because it’s not true. Multiple surveys have been posted here in which women are explaining their reasoning for obtaining elective third trimester abortions, including delays in receiving care/raising funds earlier.

That “study” is junk science. No attempt to verify information was done. It’s worthless.
We have rough numbers and the word of doctors who have taken the Hippocratic oath.

It was peer reviewed and published so…no. The fact that you don’t like the survey doesn’t make it worthless. No doctors have said that there are zero elective abortions.

I have no feelings either way. Can you post where their stories were corroborated, because I couldn’t find anything.