How many actual “late term” terminations actually happen? Actual reasons?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

Did you read the linked study from the lady who talked to 3rd trimester abortion recipients? There is no universal data collection on these things I work on a cancer screening and prevention program for underinsured and uninsured women, and it takes lots of money and funding to collect and process the data you are asking for.

The biggest hump to collecting this data is that all abortion providers after the 3rd trimester are private businesses. Any federal insurance- whether for employees or for those who receive medicaid/medicare- does not allow for use of the insurance to receive an abortion (AT ANY STAGE!) which would be the easiest way to track and extrapolate the data you seem obsessed with.

Improving access to healthcare- including abortions- for all women would decrease the statistically insignificant number of 3rd trimester abortions to begin with. Finding out you are pregnant sooner and being able to access care effectively and quickly are literally the determinants to when abortions occur. Funds are also a huge determining factor. If you have to come up with 1k because you have to pay OOP, its not happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

You have gotten plenty of answers on that. Why don’t you respond to them?

So: you don’t know the answer.

Why did you respond to a question with a question? Still no data?

Why did you ignore this post?

“KFF:

While very limited contemporary data exists on this issue, a study from 1992 estimated 0.02% of all abortions occurred after 26 weeks gestation (320 to 600 cases per year).

https://www.kff.org/women...dobbs-era/“

Here are quotes from that link for OP

Abortions at or after 21 weeks are uncommon and represent 1% of all abortions in the U.S. The procedures are expensive and often require travel and lost wages. They normally require treatment over multiple days and are only performed by a subset of all abortion providers.
Claims of abortions occurring “moments before birth” or even “after birth” are false. These scenarios do not occur, nor are they legal in the United States.
Reasons individuals seek abortions later in pregnancy include medical concerns such as fetal anomalies or maternal life endangerment, as well as barriers to care that cause delays in obtaining an abortion.
Fourteen states currently ban abortion and 11 have gestational bans that restrict abortion at a certain point in pregnancy. An additional 18 states ban abortion at or near “viability”, the point where a fetus can survive outside the womb.
Access to abortions later in pregnancy has always been limited; there are few providers that offer the services and the costs are often prohibitive. Changes in the landscape of abortion access in the U.S. post-Dobbs has led to an increase in out of state travel for abortion services as well as an increase in delays. It is still unknown whether this has led to an increase in the share of abortions that are performed later in pregnancy.

And more

The CDC does not elaborate on the breakdown by gestational age for abortions occurring past 21 weeks, but it is likely that the vast majority occur soon after 21 weeks rather than much later in the pregnancy. While very limited contemporary data exists on this issue, a study from 1992 estimated 0.02% of all abortions occurred after 26 weeks gestation (320 to 600 cases per year).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

You have gotten plenty of answers on that. Why don’t you respond to them?

So: you don’t know the answer.

Why did you respond to a question with a question? Still no data?

Why did you ignore this post?

“KFF:

While very limited contemporary data exists on this issue, a study from 1992 estimated 0.02% of all abortions occurred after 26 weeks gestation (320 to 600 cases per year).

https://www.kff.org/women...dobbs-era/“

Because shes asking for elective. The data you provided likely includes elective and medically necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

You have gotten plenty of answers on that. Why don’t you respond to them?

So: you don’t know the answer.

Why did you respond to a question with a question? Still no data?

It’s in the hundreds. Sorry you missed the link that someone posted as well as the breakdown of abortions by percentage in 2023. Look through this thread and you find those.

Stop stating that its in the hundreds for elective 3rd trimester abortions. The data linked does not provide the reason for the abortions. They only want data on elective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

Did you read the linked study from the lady who talked to 3rd trimester abortion recipients? There is no universal data collection on these things I work on a cancer screening and prevention program for underinsured and uninsured women, and it takes lots of money and funding to collect and process the data you are asking for.

The biggest hump to collecting this data is that all abortion providers after the 3rd trimester are private businesses. Any federal insurance- whether for employees or for those who receive medicaid/medicare- does not allow for use of the insurance to receive an abortion (AT ANY STAGE!) which would be the easiest way to track and extrapolate the data you seem obsessed with.

Improving access to healthcare- including abortions- for all women would decrease the statistically insignificant number of 3rd trimester abortions to begin with. Finding out you are pregnant sooner and being able to access care effectively and quickly are literally the determinants to when abortions occur. Funds are also a huge determining factor. If you have to come up with 1k because you have to pay OOP, its not happening.

Just clarifying that ALL abortion providers are private businesses not just 3rd trimester. My understanding is they cant be compelled to provide that data, even if the CDC wanted to collect it due to privacy but someone with a law degree can correct me if necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

You have gotten plenty of answers on that. Why don’t you respond to them?

So: you don’t know the answer.

Why did you respond to a question with a question? Still no data?

It’s in the hundreds. Sorry you missed the link that someone posted as well as the breakdown of abortions by percentage in 2023. Look through this thread and you find those.

+1 Pretty much all the available data, such as it is, is in this thread, but it’s not good enough for the PPs who want to interview each woman as to their reasons in front of a firing squad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

Did you read the linked study from the lady who talked to 3rd trimester abortion recipients? There is no universal data collection on these things I work on a cancer screening and prevention program for underinsured and uninsured women, and it takes lots of money and funding to collect and process the data you are asking for.

The biggest hump to collecting this data is that all abortion providers after the 3rd trimester are private businesses. Any federal insurance- whether for employees or for those who receive medicaid/medicare- does not allow for use of the insurance to receive an abortion (AT ANY STAGE!) which would be the easiest way to track and extrapolate the data you seem obsessed with.

Improving access to healthcare- including abortions- for all women would decrease the statistically insignificant number of 3rd trimester abortions to begin with. Finding out you are pregnant sooner and being able to access care effectively and quickly are literally the determinants to when abortions occur. Funds are also a huge determining factor. If you have to come up with 1k because you have to pay OOP, its not happening.

Just clarifying that ALL abortion providers are private businesses not just 3rd trimester. My understanding is they cant be compelled to provide that data, even if the CDC wanted to collect it due to privacy but someone with a law degree can correct me if necessary.

Thank you, and I think this is an important point here (I’m the OP btw).

I agreed with someone on page 2 or so who posited probably no one is keeping track of the numbers, so there probably is no clear answer.

I was still hoping maybe someone knew, or had a reliable data-set for an accurate estimate. But your point is well-taken and AGAIN: I agree:

- it does not appear the number is available because no one is keeping track (not even the CDC).

And since we all agree this is a private matter between the person having the abortion and their doctor (again - I AM pro choice), my thought is: it’s probably impossible and maybe better that the government is not keeping track. I believe we should keep it that way.

However, not knowing the number of elective 3rd trimester terminations people are having leaves the debate more open to emotional arguments (from both sides).

I’ve asked repeatedly to keep politics out of this. Unfortunately, politics benefits when we can’t even nail down the facts.

Thanks to those who have at least tried to illuminate the issue, so people can make their own choices (and have I mentioned I’m pro choice yet?).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

You have gotten plenty of answers on that. Why don’t you respond to them?

So: you don’t know the answer.

Why did you respond to a question with a question? Still no data?

Why did you ignore this post?

“KFF:

While very limited contemporary data exists on this issue, a study from 1992 estimated 0.02% of all abortions occurred after 26 weeks gestation (320 to 600 cases per year).

https://www.kff.org/women...dobbs-era/“

Because shes asking for elective. The data you provided likely includes elective and medically necessary.

That’s not what the thread title says.

But at any rate it’s easy enough to take the numbers 350-600 a year and extrapolate that between half to three quarters or more are medically necessary to find a ballpark number for “elective” ones: 87/175 - 125/300.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

You have gotten plenty of answers on that. Why don’t you respond to them?

So: you don’t know the answer.

Why did you respond to a question with a question? Still no data?

It’s in the hundreds. Sorry you missed the link that someone posted as well as the breakdown of abortions by percentage in 2023. Look through this thread and you find those.

Stop stating that its in the hundreds for elective 3rd trimester abortions. The data linked does not provide the reason for the abortions. They only want data on elective.

If the numbers are in the hundreds for all third trimester abortions you have there a ballpark figure for “elective” ones. Let’s go with the higher number given in that 1992 study, 600. Let’s say a fourth of those are “elective.” That is 150. You are welcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

You have gotten plenty of answers on that. Why don’t you respond to them?

So: you don’t know the answer.

Why did you respond to a question with a question? Still no data?

Why did you ignore this post?

“KFF:

While very limited contemporary data exists on this issue, a study from 1992 estimated 0.02% of all abortions occurred after 26 weeks gestation (320 to 600 cases per year).

https://www.kff.org/women...dobbs-era/“

Because shes asking for elective. The data you provided likely includes elective and medically necessary.

And why is the cdc link on page 8 being ignored?

But more to the point, why does OP not understand that “purely elective” abortions don’t really happen late in a pregnancy? Why not comprehend that it’s just not a thing?

At that stage, if the fetus is healthy, most women will put the baby up for adoption or, sadly, abandon it. But since the stories of abandonment make the news, we know it’s rare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

Did you read the linked study from the lady who talked to 3rd trimester abortion recipients? There is no universal data collection on these things I work on a cancer screening and prevention program for underinsured and uninsured women, and it takes lots of money and funding to collect and process the data you are asking for.

The biggest hump to collecting this data is that all abortion providers after the 3rd trimester are private businesses. Any federal insurance- whether for employees or for those who receive medicaid/medicare- does not allow for use of the insurance to receive an abortion (AT ANY STAGE!) which would be the easiest way to track and extrapolate the data you seem obsessed with.

Improving access to healthcare- including abortions- for all women would decrease the statistically insignificant number of 3rd trimester abortions to begin with. Finding out you are pregnant sooner and being able to access care effectively and quickly are literally the determinants to when abortions occur. Funds are also a huge determining factor. If you have to come up with 1k because you have to pay OOP, its not happening.

Just clarifying that ALL abortion providers are private businesses not just 3rd trimester. My understanding is they cant be compelled to provide that data, even if the CDC wanted to collect it due to privacy but someone with a law degree can correct me if necessary.

Thank you, and I think this is an important point here (I’m the OP btw).

I agreed with someone on page 2 or so who posited probably no one is keeping track of the numbers, so there probably is no clear answer.

I was still hoping maybe someone knew, or had a reliable data-set for an accurate estimate. But your point is well-taken and AGAIN: I agree:

- it does not appear the number is available because no one is keeping track (not even the CDC).

And since we all agree this is a private matter between the person having the abortion and their doctor (again - I AM pro choice), my thought is: it’s probably impossible and maybe better that the government is not keeping track. I believe we should keep it that way.

However, not knowing the number of elective 3rd trimester terminations people are having leaves the debate more open to emotional arguments (from both sides).

I’ve asked repeatedly to keep politics out of this. Unfortunately, politics benefits when we can’t even nail down the facts.

Thanks to those who have at least tried to illuminate the issue, so people can make their own choices (and have I mentioned I’m pro choice yet?).

You did post in the political forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

You have gotten plenty of answers on that. Why don’t you respond to them?

So: you don’t know the answer.

Why did you respond to a question with a question? Still no data?

Why did you ignore this post?

“KFF:

While very limited contemporary data exists on this issue, a study from 1992 estimated 0.02% of all abortions occurred after 26 weeks gestation (320 to 600 cases per year).

https://www.kff.org/women...dobbs-era/“

Because shes asking for elective. The data you provided likely includes elective and medically necessary.

So elective ranges from 320 to 600, probably less as has been covered in great detail here. What difference will it make to know the exact number in what is already an infinitesimal number of all abortions performed?

[Anonymous]

You are quibbling about negligible numbers, op.
People have linked the stats.
300-600 of those procedures are performed yearly.
Even if every single one of them was just some murderous slut that wanted to kill a beautiful, perfect, cherubic, blonde curled, blued eyed, Gerber model-like baby, it would be a statistically irrelevant number.
And we know it’s insignificant, because Covid was fatal to 1% of the US population.
And people did not GAF.
You are inquiring about .01

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. This is an issue for me too, OP. I’m very pro-choice in first semester and I think women should be allowed to terminate at the anatomy scan (which is not always at 20 weeks, could be 1-2 weeks later to be fair). After that point, I think abortions should be banned unless there’s a very compelling medical reason for the baby or the mother.

I also hear things like “that almost never happens! Right wing talking point!” and if that’s true, I don’t see why anyone would have a problem with a law against it. It’s either happening or it’s not. And it shouldn’t, IMO.

I read something that said the vast majority of Americans have this middle of the road, sensible view on abortion. So I don’t know why we need to choose between one extreme or the other. The crazies on both sides drive me nuts.

Good points, I tend to agree.

But could we please get back to just finding the facts here? I would just like to know:

- how many non-medically necessary, elective, third trimester terminations occur each year?

It is just a factual question.

You know what? There are none. If you want a different answer, GO AND DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH and stop being a lazy conservative schmuck and trying to get someone else to do research for you so you can argue with them.

As far as we know, there are no non-medically necessary elective third trimester abortions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.

This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.

OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.

How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?

No has answered that yet.

DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.

OP again. Thx.

Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.

My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.

If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.

Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).

Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.

People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.

And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.

Theres your rational answer and facts.

Your response is NOT a factual response to the request for mathematical data this thread is premised upon.

Why couldn’t you simply have said: “I do not know the answer. Here’s my opinion?”

And furthermore, you don’t know me. My sibling had an abortion. My ex had an abortion. I offered to accompany a close friend to her scheduled PP appointment and promised to hold her hand during a termination and help get her through it (she miscarried prior to the appt though).

Why do so many of you fail to read / comprehend ? I AM PRO CHOICE!!

What I’m asking is a simple FACTUAL question about 3rd Trimester / 27 weeks-numbers, WITHOUT politics, but instead all I get is opinions and politics.

If you don’t know, don’t post.

Did you read the linked study from the lady who talked to 3rd trimester abortion recipients? There is no universal data collection on these things I work on a cancer screening and prevention program for underinsured and uninsured women, and it takes lots of money and funding to collect and process the data you are asking for.

The biggest hump to collecting this data is that all abortion providers after the 3rd trimester are private businesses. Any federal insurance- whether for employees or for those who receive medicaid/medicare- does not allow for use of the insurance to receive an abortion (AT ANY STAGE!) which would be the easiest way to track and extrapolate the data you seem obsessed with.

Improving access to healthcare- including abortions- for all women would decrease the statistically insignificant number of 3rd trimester abortions to begin with. Finding out you are pregnant sooner and being able to access care effectively and quickly are literally the determinants to when abortions occur. Funds are also a huge determining factor. If you have to come up with 1k because you have to pay OOP, its not happening.

Just clarifying that ALL abortion providers are private businesses not just 3rd trimester. My understanding is they cant be compelled to provide that data, even if the CDC wanted to collect it due to privacy but someone with a law degree can correct me if necessary.

Thank you, and I think this is an important point here (I’m the OP btw).

I agreed with someone on page 2 or so who posited probably no one is keeping track of the numbers, so there probably is no clear answer.

I was still hoping maybe someone knew, or had a reliable data-set for an accurate estimate. But your point is well-taken and AGAIN: I agree:

- it does not appear the number is available because no one is keeping track (not even the CDC).

And since we all agree this is a private matter between the person having the abortion and their doctor (again - I AM pro choice), my thought is: it’s probably impossible and maybe better that the government is not keeping track. I believe we should keep it that way.

However, not knowing the number of elective 3rd trimester terminations people are having leaves the debate more open to emotional arguments (from both sides).

I’ve asked repeatedly to keep politics out of this. Unfortunately, politics benefits when we can’t even nail down the facts.

Thanks to those who have at least tried to illuminate the issue, so people can make their own choices (and have I mentioned I’m pro choice yet?).

You did post in the political forum.

Touché