Nearly half the kids in my kids private have a diagnosis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not ADHD but took adderall to help with testing. It’s crazy how much harder I can work and that I got better grades when on it. I think a lot of parents want that for their kids.

I dont have adhd and was given ritalin for tiredness from chronic illness and it made me so angry I wanted to tell my coworkers to f off, so doesnt help everyone...

In laws school, we were rule followers so we go diagnoses. Adderall is great for neurotypical kids who want to study longer or in a more focused manner. Bankers just use coke, same results but more risk

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Workplaces are happy to provide accommodations that improve their business outcomes. If they can find someone to do the job just as well without them, it’s an unnecessary cost. But if the cost of the accommodation is low and the work product is good, I think they’re pretty likely to get it.

Right but "please give me double the time to complete all my work" is pretty much never going to be profitable or good for business.

Nobody is asking for double time for projects. When a student is assigned a project they don’t get double time.

If my employee needs extra time to do x I ask, when will you have it completed not the other way around.

You sound like someone who has never worked a day in their life

Students absolutely get extra time on projects, ability to retake tests or redo projects if the grade is low.

And obviously employees need to complete work in a timely manner and to the specifications required.

My kid is in law school and many students get extra time!

On timed exams yes, on projects no.

I got extra time on papers in law school all the time. Usually an extra week, sometimes 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dunno about you all but test taking is not one of my regular job duties. Everyone has different strengths. Not being able to finish a test quickly is not a death knell for success in the workplace. The issues that drive the need for the accommodation are what might get in the way, and that will depend on the specific job.

No sh*t. But many (most) jobs require you to prioritize work and complete it in a timely manner to the standards required by your boss. People with “adult ADHD” are not going to be able to get out of these requirements for the pace & accuracy of their work on the basis of their disability.

But you can choose a job that doesn’t have many deadlines as an adult. That’s what many with adult ADHD do.

[Anonymous]

Is it possible that some of those pills were extra supplements or some Advil for orthodontic work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Workplaces are happy to provide accommodations that improve their business outcomes. If they can find someone to do the job just as well without them, it’s an unnecessary cost. But if the cost of the accommodation is low and the work product is good, I think they’re pretty likely to get it.

Right but "please give me double the time to complete all my work" is pretty much never going to be profitable or good for business.

Nobody is asking for double time for projects. When a student is assigned a project they don’t get double time.

If my employee needs extra time to do x I ask, when will you have it completed not the other way around.

You sound like someone who has never worked a day in their life

I run a team of about 20 people. Yes many/most deadlines are flexible and it is common for there to be some give and take on deadlines. In particular, as people become more experienced and when they are SME, I tend to give them more deference on timelines because I trust them to know how much time it will take to do something correctly.

However,

There is a big difference between "this is going to take a few extra days because I need to run these numbers against the ones from 5 and 10 years ago if we want the analysis to be maximally useful to the client" and "I put this off until the last second and then realized it was a lot more work than I expected it to be and now need more time." And while sometimes people who are good at BS can make the latter sound like the former, eventually everyone figures it out. And especially when I have a newer team member who I'm giving more discrete tasks to or who is mostly doing work to support projects "owned" by other people, getting persistent push back on how long things will take or seeing lots of signs of procrastination are huge red flags and unless it is addressed fairly quickly will mean they will not move up and in many cases may be asked to leave (I have been through 3 downsizings and people like this are easy layoffs when we are asked to tighten our belts at the department level).

So while I agree the workplace is not identical to the circumstances students face in school, there are more similarities than you seem willing to acknowledge. And people who are accustomed to having their limitation accommodated instead of learning how to work through them on their own tend to be workplace liabilities. Everyone has challenges. I myself am a procrastinator by nature, but I use lists and fake deadlines and other methods to ensure this tendency doesn't impact my work. And the reason I have those tools is because I didn't spend my education being told "oh it's okay you're brain is just different -- here is extra time and support to complete your work." I was expected to meet expectations just like the student next to me, who for all I knew was dealing with their own unique challenges. That's life.

Or it used to be before we decided that some people are special and should get all the rewards of hard work and discipline without actually working hard or being disciplined. Well that is not going to work out great in the workplace even if schools have bought into it. At some point you have to figure out how to get your work done without the handholding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Workplaces are happy to provide accommodations that improve their business outcomes. If they can find someone to do the job just as well without them, it’s an unnecessary cost. But if the cost of the accommodation is low and the work product is good, I think they’re pretty likely to get it.

Right but "please give me double the time to complete all my work" is pretty much never going to be profitable or good for business.

Nobody is asking for double time for projects. When a student is assigned a project they don’t get double time.

If my employee needs extra time to do x I ask, when will you have it completed not the other way around.

You sound like someone who has never worked a day in their life

I run a team of about 20 people. Yes many/most deadlines are flexible and it is common for there to be some give and take on deadlines. In particular, as people become more experienced and when they are SME, I tend to give them more deference on timelines because I trust them to know how much time it will take to do something correctly.

However,

There is a big difference between "this is going to take a few extra days because I need to run these numbers against the ones from 5 and 10 years ago if we want the analysis to be maximally useful to the client" and "I put this off until the last second and then realized it was a lot more work than I expected it to be and now need more time." And while sometimes people who are good at BS can make the latter sound like the former, eventually everyone figures it out. And especially when I have a newer team member who I'm giving more discrete tasks to or who is mostly doing work to support projects "owned" by other people, getting persistent push back on how long things will take or seeing lots of signs of procrastination are huge red flags and unless it is addressed fairly quickly will mean they will not move up and in many cases may be asked to leave (I have been through 3 downsizings and people like this are easy layoffs when we are asked to tighten our belts at the department level).

So while I agree the workplace is not identical to the circumstances students face in school, there are more similarities than you seem willing to acknowledge. And people who are accustomed to having their limitation accommodated instead of learning how to work through them on their own tend to be workplace liabilities. Everyone has challenges. I myself am a procrastinator by nature, but I use lists and fake deadlines and other methods to ensure this tendency doesn't impact my work. And the reason I have those tools is because I didn't spend my education being told "oh it's okay you're brain is just different -- here is extra time and support to complete your work." I was expected to meet expectations just like the student next to me, who for all I knew was dealing with their own unique challenges. That's life.

Or it used to be before we decided that some people are special and should get all the rewards of hard work and discipline without actually working hard or being disciplined. Well that is not going to work out great in the workplace even if schools have bought into it. At some point you have to figure out how to get your work done without the handholding.

I have 200+ engineers who work for me and in 20 years thousands.

I’ve rarely experienced any issues like you describe. Maybe you need a therapist.

Engineers tell PM’s when they will complete their tasks, it’s put into a plan and adjusted when real issues arise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Workplaces are happy to provide accommodations that improve their business outcomes. If they can find someone to do the job just as well without them, it’s an unnecessary cost. But if the cost of the accommodation is low and the work product is good, I think they’re pretty likely to get it.

Right but "please give me double the time to complete all my work" is pretty much never going to be profitable or good for business.

Nobody is asking for double time for projects. When a student is assigned a project they don’t get double time.

If my employee needs extra time to do x I ask, when will you have it completed not the other way around.

You sound like someone who has never worked a day in their life

Students absolutely get extra time on projects, ability to retake tests or redo projects if the grade is low.

And obviously employees need to complete work in a timely manner and to the specifications required.

My kid is in law school and many students get extra time!

On timed exams yes, on projects no.

I got extra time on papers in law school all the time. Usually an extra week, sometimes 2.

That’s not a thing. Not sure why you are so intent on a false narrative around accommodations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op - this thread has so focused on adhd and ‘extra time’. My school doesn’t even test! Not all these kids have adhd. This is nyc btw.
Here’s an example of what I mean - I know multiple people who went to trinity (considered the tippy top in nyc). In one family 2/3 kids younger than 25 all got asd and adhd dx (they stayed and were by no means the only ones and were fine). The parents clearly both have the same personality that got the kids the dx but older so no dx. None of them are failures to launch - they’re doing fine. They’re all a little socially awkward. Example 2 is
I’m saying we are incrementally labeling more and more with each passing year and it’s either bad or good or neutral depending on your pov. But not just about ‘extra time’.

I actually think the diagnosis that’s blowing up esp in the private world is asd. It used to be ok to be smart and super socially awkward at all these Tt privates but with the increased focus on social emotional it’s becoming more incumbent on these schools to dx so they don’t just churn out engineers they churn out engineers who can also manage

The fact that the diagnosis of ASD is expanding doesn’t mean that the therapies for it are expanding. Just because the kids get the label doesn’t mean suddenly you can do something to fix it especially on the higher functioning side. The autism label only really helps is if in fact you do have a child who is struggling - in which case they likely are not at Trinity because this generally implicates some kind of behavior or language delay that means the kid is disruptive or really does not fit in. In those cases the dx gets you access to ABA, OT and speech covered by insurance, more behavioral and academic supports in the IEP, etc.

the actual issue that researchers see with kids on the higher functioning end of the spectrum - those *few* who may “mask” well enough to succeed academically at an elite private and scrape by socially - is that they do not keep up on daily living skills like other young adults. cooking, hygeine, organization, manners, taking feedback, living with roommates, etc. That can end up being impairing. And ironically, focusing only on “accommodations” in school so they succeed academically ends up ignoring what they actually need.

You don't "fix" ASD, you provide supports to help with functioning. ASD is part of who they are and includes strengths and challenges. For our lower support needs ASD kid, the diagnosis meant we knew to continue her private supports we started when we initially became aware of the issues. We are lucky to have insurance that doesn't require a diagnosis for OT or social skills and provides OON coverage. A diagnosis isn't just about getting stuff paid for, it's about knowing how to support someone and what causes the difficulties they are having. Our kid sometimes looks like she is not paying attention, but she doesn't actually have attention issues. Knowing that is important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op - this thread has so focused on adhd and ‘extra time’. My school doesn’t even test! Not all these kids have adhd. This is nyc btw.
Here’s an example of what I mean - I know multiple people who went to trinity (considered the tippy top in nyc). In one family 2/3 kids younger than 25 all got asd and adhd dx (they stayed and were by no means the only ones and were fine). The parents clearly both have the same personality that got the kids the dx but older so no dx. None of them are failures to launch - they’re doing fine. They’re all a little socially awkward. Example 2 is
I’m saying we are incrementally labeling more and more with each passing year and it’s either bad or good or neutral depending on your pov. But not just about ‘extra time’.

I actually think the diagnosis that’s blowing up esp in the private world is asd. It used to be ok to be smart and super socially awkward at all these Tt privates but with the increased focus on social emotional it’s becoming more incumbent on these schools to dx so they don’t just churn out engineers they churn out engineers who can also manage

The fact that the diagnosis of ASD is expanding doesn’t mean that the therapies for it are expanding. Just because the kids get the label doesn’t mean suddenly you can do something to fix it especially on the higher functioning side. The autism label only really helps is if in fact you do have a child who is struggling - in which case they likely are not at Trinity because this generally implicates some kind of behavior or language delay that means the kid is disruptive or really does not fit in. In those cases the dx gets you access to ABA, OT and speech covered by insurance, more behavioral and academic supports in the IEP, etc.

the actual issue that researchers see with kids on the higher functioning end of the spectrum - those *few* who may “mask” well enough to succeed academically at an elite private and scrape by socially - is that they do not keep up on daily living skills like other young adults. cooking, hygeine, organization, manners, taking feedback, living with roommates, etc. That can end up being impairing. And ironically, focusing only on “accommodations” in school so they succeed academically ends up ignoring what they actually need.

I just don’t think that’s true.
Half of Silicon Valley is on the spectrum.
They are flagged at privates bc they can keep up academically but socially they cannot. Doesn’t mean they’re disruptive. Means they don’t have many friends or are generally socially awkward/ say the wrong thing sometimes etc

[Anonymous]

It’s so antiquated this thinking that all the kids at high performing schools are neurotypical. I’m shocked this is actually what people believe.
We have friends with kids at Philips Exeter and half their friend group is somewhere on the spectrum - we went to an event and it was wildly apparent. I think you see asd (by new definition) over represented in top tier privates

[Anonymous]

... I run a team of about 20 people ... " was a great post

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:... I run a team of about 20 people ... " was a great post

Why

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Workplaces are happy to provide accommodations that improve their business outcomes. If they can find someone to do the job just as well without them, it’s an unnecessary cost. But if the cost of the accommodation is low and the work product is good, I think they’re pretty likely to get it.

Right but "please give me double the time to complete all my work" is pretty much never going to be profitable or good for business.

Nobody is asking for double time for projects. When a student is assigned a project they don’t get double time.

If my employee needs extra time to do x I ask, when will you have it completed not the other way around.

You sound like someone who has never worked a day in their life

I run a team of about 20 people. Yes many/most deadlines are flexible and it is common for there to be some give and take on deadlines. In particular, as people become more experienced and when they are SME, I tend to give them more deference on timelines because I trust them to know how much time it will take to do something correctly.

However,

There is a big difference between "this is going to take a few extra days because I need to run these numbers against the ones from 5 and 10 years ago if we want the analysis to be maximally useful to the client" and "I put this off until the last second and then realized it was a lot more work than I expected it to be and now need more time." And while sometimes people who are good at BS can make the latter sound like the former, eventually everyone figures it out. And especially when I have a newer team member who I'm giving more discrete tasks to or who is mostly doing work to support projects "owned" by other people, getting persistent push back on how long things will take or seeing lots of signs of procrastination are huge red flags and unless it is addressed fairly quickly will mean they will not move up and in many cases may be asked to leave (I have been through 3 downsizings and people like this are easy layoffs when we are asked to tighten our belts at the department level).

So while I agree the workplace is not identical to the circumstances students face in school, there are more similarities than you seem willing to acknowledge. And people who are accustomed to having their limitation accommodated instead of learning how to work through them on their own tend to be workplace liabilities. Everyone has challenges. I myself am a procrastinator by nature, but I use lists and fake deadlines and other methods to ensure this tendency doesn't impact my work. And the reason I have those tools is because I didn't spend my education being told "oh it's okay you're brain is just different -- here is extra time and support to complete your work." I was expected to meet expectations just like the student next to me, who for all I knew was dealing with their own unique challenges. That's life.

Or it used to be before we decided that some people are special and should get all the rewards of hard work and discipline without actually working hard or being disciplined. Well that is not going to work out great in the workplace even if schools have bought into it. At some point you have to figure out how to get your work done without the handholding.

I have 200+ engineers who work for me and in 20 years thousands.

I’ve rarely experienced any issues like you describe. Maybe you need a therapist.

Engineers tell PM’s when they will complete their tasks, it’s put into a plan and adjusted when real issues arise.

Huh I am an engineer working as a PM with engineers working under me and this is NOT how my workplace works. Deadlines are imposed by the org or client and we are expected to meet them. I am currently understaffed and regularly have to do work that I should be assigning out to engineers because I am short people and running too many projects (org is also short on PMs and is struggling to find people for vacant positions at my level). When I have to go to my bosses to explain we are missing a deadline for one reason or another it sucks and people are NOT understanding.

I have no idea where you could possible work that there basically are no set deadlines and everyone gets to just tell you how long something is going to take but that is not the reality in any workplace I've been in. I don't know how you even run a business like that -- how do you budget man hours to a project? Don't clients exert pressure when there are time and cost overruns? It sounds like you must work in development with a big budget? I cannot relate.

(Also telling someone who disagrees with you that they "need therapy" is just obnoxious. Engineers are not always known for our bedside manner and I can be rude by accident sometimes but that's just jerk behavior.)

[Anonymous]

Many ill behaved students from our school go the privates to get help with their behavior. It really helped clean up our public school in the last 7 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Workplaces are happy to provide accommodations that improve their business outcomes. If they can find someone to do the job just as well without them, it’s an unnecessary cost. But if the cost of the accommodation is low and the work product is good, I think they’re pretty likely to get it.

Right but "please give me double the time to complete all my work" is pretty much never going to be profitable or good for business.

Nobody is asking for double time for projects. When a student is assigned a project they don’t get double time.

If my employee needs extra time to do x I ask, when will you have it completed not the other way around.

You sound like someone who has never worked a day in their life

Students absolutely get extra time on projects, ability to retake tests or redo projects if the grade is low.

And obviously employees need to complete work in a timely manner and to the specifications required.

My kid is in law school and many students get extra time!

On timed exams yes, on projects no.

I got extra time on papers in law school all the time. Usually an extra week, sometimes 2.

That’s not a thing. Not sure why you are so intent on a false narrative around accommodations.

Yep. Not a thing. Law school only has 1 exam per class at the end of the semester except for professional responsibility class which has the usual write a summary judgment etc. Nobody received any extensions.