Name your magical Democratic who would beat Trump?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gretchen Whitmer

OP here.
1. She's not running.
2. Americas aren't electing a woman right now (I'm a woman)
3. No one outside MI or a political junkie knows who she is

1. You’ve changed your criteria since your OP.
2. Says you, since democrats are pinning all their hopes on abortion and turning out women, maybe have a little more respect?
3. Nikki Haley had an even lower profile

OP here.
1. I’ll give you that. She has show no interest in running. But let’s say she wants to run, sadly #2 still holds. People always find some excuse why to not vote for a woman.

I disagree with you about #2. Look how close Clinton came and frankly Whitmer is a significantly better candidate. Add to that she likely carries Michigan which Biden willingly gave up in order to support Netanyahu, and again, she’s my candidate of preference (once again playing by your original rules not your “the only allowed answer is Biden” rules)

I’m OP. I absolutely LOVE Whitmer. I want her to be President. I’m thrilled no one mentioned Gavin Newsom because we all know yhink he deserves the Presidency. But this is not the time.

No, I’m not saying, “only correct answer is Biden.” I’m really truly trying to get people to accept the reality that AT THIS MOMENT Joe Biden is best positioned to beat Trump.

I wish this weren’t the case.
I wish after Trump tried to overturn our election and incited an insurrection Senate Republicans would have voted to convict him. But they didn’t.
I wish after all but a handful of Maga Trump candidates lost in 22, the GOP would’ve seen that staying close to him they would continue to lose seats. But they didn’t.
I wish after Roe was overturned, MAGA realized that abortion bans were a losing issue, but they didn’t.

Yes, I wish the world was different. But it isn’t.

Then start a thread that says “I want you to vote for Joe Biden”

Don’t start a thread asking for alternatives and then being upset when you’re given alternatives that meet your original criteria. It is— if this is possible on DCUM— disrespectful to the intelligence of the people you’re talking to and certainly not helping anyone’s view of Biden supporters.

OP here. NOPE. The issue is thread after thread, poster chime in with “any other Democrat would beat Trump”.

My post was to tease that out, to get an actual name of who that “any other Dem” might be.

6 pages in and no one has named a candidate that would come close to having the name ID, the infrastructure or the political chops to beat Trump.
I would’ve been All In had somebody named public figure that would have a better chance of beating Trump. This thread only shows there isn’t a stronger candidate or consensus.

The time to complain was a year ago. It is now January 2024. We need to stop complaining and pull on our big boy and big girl panties and get behind Joe Biden.

People named candidates. You then made the new rule they had to be running for president. Only one Democrat is— that’s how a party system works.

So no, no one needs to “stop complaining” that the party doesn’t prioritize them. They need to complain more loudly, in more polls, and to every elected official because it’s very clear that their votes are being taken for granted.

Instead of telling people who Biden has ignored to “stop complaining” why don’t you put on those big girl pants and get your candidate to…do better?

He can call the UN Ambassador tomorrow to stop vetoing SC resolutions on Gaza.

He can mandate family-friendly policies in the Federal government— the country’s largest employer!— tomorrow.

Or he can keep on delivering for white men and hope everyone else will get scolded by someone to “stop complaining!” and come to the polls to keep him in his job.

I DID NOT change the rules. I said name someone who could jump in the race TODAY and beat Trump. Whitmer isn’t going to. Richie Torres isn’t going to. Not today. Maybe in 4 1/2 years. I really hope so!

Please understand not liking your choices doesn’t mean you don’t have one.

From one of your earlier posts:

OP here.
1. She's not running.
2. Americas aren't electing a woman right now (I'm a woman)
3. No one outside MN or a political junkie knows who she is

I guess this just another Biden rah rah rah thread.

OP here. You are correct. My post - she's not running wasn't fair. What I meant was she hasn't signaled that she would run. But I admit, I was wrong. I still stand that Klobcher or Whitmer don't have the name recognition to jump in this late in the game to win. And the premise of my thread was just that. I was asking those posters who keep saying in Jan, 2024 that a "generic Dem" would be better, to name what generic Dem COULD jump in NOW. I was asking who your policy choice is, who you would have liked to have run starting 2023, but WHO NOW? And now pages into this, no one has made a case for anyone who could declare today (pretending we don't have filing deadline) and still beat Trump. Because the election is NOW and still complaining is just mad it's cloudy & raining when you wanted to go to the beach. It sucks but it is what it is.

So again, I was wrong on point 1.

Yes, you were wrong on point one.

Now take that self awareness and apply it to the fact that your argument is not persuasive to people who this administration hasn’t delivered for.

You can scream at us to put on our big girl panties and be grateful for the scraps of Biden’s table

Or

You can work to start delivering for the groups who aren’t feeling like they have a seat at that table. I promise you will get more voters on your side if you, for example, get Biden to bring workplace policies to the federal government that benefit Black women— then talk about it in areas like VA where the federal government is a huge employer.

You will get more voters on your side if you get Biden to do better on Gaza— then go talk about it in Michigan.

But sure you can yell at DCUM.

I am not affiliated with the campaign nor was the thread trying to convince people to vote for Biden. It was to highlight that the griping that ANY GENERIC DEM could beat Trump is garbage. It's a bad argument and doesn't hold any weight. Again, sorry that you are unhappy but claiming someone else could do a better job is laughable if it weren't so dangerous. Because all this trash talk about Biden will only help Trump.

Actually all this trash talk about Biden will only help America.

We don’t anoint a president we elect them. So unless we communicate the fact that there is vast dissatisfaction with Biden within the voter base he needs,
We are allowing him to coast to disaster.

His campaign should be scared and his administration should be busy. Instead of scolding about big girl panties every Biden booster should be asking what, in the next 9 months, can Joe Biden do to deliver For You. And then working on that. Working hard— because this is the last nine months he can change anyone’s
mind

And no one— really no one— has ever had their mind changed by someone presenting a fake rhetorical question and then scolding people whose answer she doesn’t like.

At least we all see that there is no magical unicorn candidate that some try to claim is out there.

NP. If there’s no magical unicorn candidate, then the attention needs to be greater and the debate needs to be more vigorous+rigorous. Pretty sure the lazy rhetoric of the Biden boosters is the opposite of that.

I didn’t think you quite understand the threat of Trump. We can have a vigorous + rigorous debate when we aren’t staring down the barrel of authoritarianism. I’m guessing you’re of a certain race & class who will not be impacted by a Trump win. Many of us don’t have that luxury.

If you’re imperiled by a Trump Presidency don’t you have even more incentive to keep the Biden coalition together? So why not work to deliver for that coalition rather than scold people. Do you really think that’s changing minds?

What does Biden need yo deliver to win your vote? Be specific and realistic given that GOP run the House.

Step away from the Middle East and stop taking part in the genocide of Palestinian people. Stop sending billions to Israel and invest that money in our education and healthcare. Foreign policy is strictly under the President’s control and like it or not Trump was very anti war.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok putting everything aside, this great nation of 330 million people has two candidates… Mr.Senile and Mr. Deranged. Like does that not make you guys want to weep? This is just so tragic and I’m worried sick about the future of my children. This is all the country has to offer?!

NP here I don’t like it either, but this is reality. What are we doing here people? on one hand we have an old man who’s gave us a soft landing on COVID, move us forward on climate and has lowered drug prices on some drugs but yeh, he is old. On the other is someone who overthrew our elections And is a wannabe dictator. How is this even a choice?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gretchen Whitmer

OP here.
1. She's not running.
2. Americas aren't electing a woman right now (I'm a woman)
3. No one outside MI or a political junkie knows who she is

1. You’ve changed your criteria since your OP.
2. Says you, since democrats are pinning all their hopes on abortion and turning out women, maybe have a little more respect?
3. Nikki Haley had an even lower profile

OP here.
1. I’ll give you that. She has show no interest in running. But let’s say she wants to run, sadly #2 still holds. People always find some excuse why to not vote for a woman.

I disagree with you about #2. Look how close Clinton came and frankly Whitmer is a significantly better candidate. Add to that she likely carries Michigan which Biden willingly gave up in order to support Netanyahu, and again, she’s my candidate of preference (once again playing by your original rules not your “the only allowed answer is Biden” rules)

I’m OP. I absolutely LOVE Whitmer. I want her to be President. I’m thrilled no one mentioned Gavin Newsom because we all know yhink he deserves the Presidency. But this is not the time.

No, I’m not saying, “only correct answer is Biden.” I’m really truly trying to get people to accept the reality that AT THIS MOMENT Joe Biden is best positioned to beat Trump.

I wish this weren’t the case.
I wish after Trump tried to overturn our election and incited an insurrection Senate Republicans would have voted to convict him. But they didn’t.
I wish after all but a handful of Maga Trump candidates lost in 22, the GOP would’ve seen that staying close to him they would continue to lose seats. But they didn’t.
I wish after Roe was overturned, MAGA realized that abortion bans were a losing issue, but they didn’t.

Yes, I wish the world was different. But it isn’t.

Then start a thread that says “I want you to vote for Joe Biden”

Don’t start a thread asking for alternatives and then being upset when you’re given alternatives that meet your original criteria. It is— if this is possible on DCUM— disrespectful to the intelligence of the people you’re talking to and certainly not helping anyone’s view of Biden supporters.

OP here. NOPE. The issue is thread after thread, poster chime in with “any other Democrat would beat Trump”.

My post was to tease that out, to get an actual name of who that “any other Dem” might be.

6 pages in and no one has named a candidate that would come close to having the name ID, the infrastructure or the political chops to beat Trump.
I would’ve been All In had somebody named public figure that would have a better chance of beating Trump. This thread only shows there isn’t a stronger candidate or consensus.

The time to complain was a year ago. It is now January 2024. We need to stop complaining and pull on our big boy and big girl panties and get behind Joe Biden.

People named candidates. You then made the new rule they had to be running for president. Only one Democrat is— that’s how a party system works.

So no, no one needs to “stop complaining” that the party doesn’t prioritize them. They need to complain more loudly, in more polls, and to every elected official because it’s very clear that their votes are being taken for granted.

Instead of telling people who Biden has ignored to “stop complaining” why don’t you put on those big girl pants and get your candidate to…do better?

He can call the UN Ambassador tomorrow to stop vetoing SC resolutions on Gaza.

He can mandate family-friendly policies in the Federal government— the country’s largest employer!— tomorrow.

Or he can keep on delivering for white men and hope everyone else will get scolded by someone to “stop complaining!” and come to the polls to keep him in his job.

I DID NOT change the rules. I said name someone who could jump in the race TODAY and beat Trump. Whitmer isn’t going to. Richie Torres isn’t going to. Not today. Maybe in 4 1/2 years. I really hope so!

Please understand not liking your choices doesn’t mean you don’t have one.

From one of your earlier posts:

OP here.
1. She's not running.
2. Americas aren't electing a woman right now (I'm a woman)
3. No one outside MN or a political junkie knows who she is

I guess this just another Biden rah rah rah thread.

OP here. You are correct. My post - she's not running wasn't fair. What I meant was she hasn't signaled that she would run. But I admit, I was wrong. I still stand that Klobcher or Whitmer don't have the name recognition to jump in this late in the game to win. And the premise of my thread was just that. I was asking those posters who keep saying in Jan, 2024 that a "generic Dem" would be better, to name what generic Dem COULD jump in NOW. I was asking who your policy choice is, who you would have liked to have run starting 2023, but WHO NOW? And now pages into this, no one has made a case for anyone who could declare today (pretending we don't have filing deadline) and still beat Trump. Because the election is NOW and still complaining is just mad it's cloudy & raining when you wanted to go to the beach. It sucks but it is what it is.

So again, I was wrong on point 1.

Yes, you were wrong on point one.

Now take that self awareness and apply it to the fact that your argument is not persuasive to people who this administration hasn’t delivered for.

You can scream at us to put on our big girl panties and be grateful for the scraps of Biden’s table

Or

You can work to start delivering for the groups who aren’t feeling like they have a seat at that table. I promise you will get more voters on your side if you, for example, get Biden to bring workplace policies to the federal government that benefit Black women— then talk about it in areas like VA where the federal government is a huge employer.

You will get more voters on your side if you get Biden to do better on Gaza— then go talk about it in Michigan.

But sure you can yell at DCUM.

I am not affiliated with the campaign nor was the thread trying to convince people to vote for Biden. It was to highlight that the griping that ANY GENERIC DEM could beat Trump is garbage. It's a bad argument and doesn't hold any weight. Again, sorry that you are unhappy but claiming someone else could do a better job is laughable if it weren't so dangerous. Because all this trash talk about Biden will only help Trump.

Actually all this trash talk about Biden will only help America.

We don’t anoint a president we elect them. So unless we communicate the fact that there is vast dissatisfaction with Biden within the voter base he needs,
We are allowing him to coast to disaster.

His campaign should be scared and his administration should be busy. Instead of scolding about big girl panties every Biden booster should be asking what, in the next 9 months, can Joe Biden do to deliver For You. And then working on that. Working hard— because this is the last nine months he can change anyone’s
mind

And no one— really no one— has ever had their mind changed by someone presenting a fake rhetorical question and then scolding people whose answer she doesn’t like.

At least we all see that there is no magical unicorn candidate that some try to claim is out there.

NP. If there’s no magical unicorn candidate, then the attention needs to be greater and the debate needs to be more vigorous+rigorous. Pretty sure the lazy rhetoric of the Biden boosters is the opposite of that.

I didn’t think you quite understand the threat of Trump. We can have a vigorous + rigorous debate when we aren’t staring down the barrel of authoritarianism. I’m guessing you’re of a certain race & class who will not be impacted by a Trump win. Many of us don’t have that luxury.

If you’re imperiled by a Trump Presidency don’t you have even more incentive to keep the Biden coalition together? So why not work to deliver for that coalition rather than scold people. Do you really think that’s changing minds?

What does Biden need yo deliver to win your vote? Be specific and realistic given that GOP run the House.

Step away from the Middle East and stop taking part in the genocide of Palestinian people. Stop sending billions to Israel and invest that money in our education and healthcare. Foreign policy is strictly under the President’s control and like it or not Trump was very anti war.

I hate that so many innocent live are being lost in Israel and have always been against us funding Israel while Bibi is there but if you think that if we stopped funding Israel, GOP would allow a penny of that money to go towards American people I have a bridge to sell you. Congress holds the purse strings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will say if Biden loses there will be plenty of people on DCUM explaining that they TOLD you he should have taken the youth vote seriously and they TOLD you he shouldn’t take women for granted.

And your counter-argument will be “but I yelled at them!”

This happened when Trump won in 2016, I was the person who was most aggressive in telling people here that. FWIW, I had been in DC for decades then and knew many senior people in both parties and a handful of big-time political consultants. It’s clear the top of the Democratic Party and its loyalists think their stuff doesn’t smell!

I’m OP. I’m not a political operative, I’m just a mom that is doing the best I can for my kids, and I’m concerned that there a way too many people out there who claim there is a magical mythical candidate but never put a name to it. I am terrified, terrified of a Trump presidency. yes, I am very, very aware that Biden has flaws. But I live in effing reality we have two candidates. There is no one coming to save us only we can save ourselves, so when Democrats are fighting each other, guess who wins!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gretchen Whitmer

OP here.
1. She's not running.
2. Americas aren't electing a woman right now (I'm a woman)
3. No one outside MI or a political junkie knows who she is

1. You’ve changed your criteria since your OP.
2. Says you, since democrats are pinning all their hopes on abortion and turning out women, maybe have a little more respect?
3. Nikki Haley had an even lower profile

OP here.
1. I’ll give you that. She has show no interest in running. But let’s say she wants to run, sadly #2 still holds. People always find some excuse why to not vote for a woman.

I disagree with you about #2. Look how close Clinton came and frankly Whitmer is a significantly better candidate. Add to that she likely carries Michigan which Biden willingly gave up in order to support Netanyahu, and again, she’s my candidate of preference (once again playing by your original rules not your “the only allowed answer is Biden” rules)

I’m OP. I absolutely LOVE Whitmer. I want her to be President. I’m thrilled no one mentioned Gavin Newsom because we all know yhink he deserves the Presidency. But this is not the time.

No, I’m not saying, “only correct answer is Biden.” I’m really truly trying to get people to accept the reality that AT THIS MOMENT Joe Biden is best positioned to beat Trump.

I wish this weren’t the case.
I wish after Trump tried to overturn our election and incited an insurrection Senate Republicans would have voted to convict him. But they didn’t.
I wish after all but a handful of Maga Trump candidates lost in 22, the GOP would’ve seen that staying close to him they would continue to lose seats. But they didn’t.
I wish after Roe was overturned, MAGA realized that abortion bans were a losing issue, but they didn’t.

Yes, I wish the world was different. But it isn’t.

Then start a thread that says “I want you to vote for Joe Biden”

Don’t start a thread asking for alternatives and then being upset when you’re given alternatives that meet your original criteria. It is— if this is possible on DCUM— disrespectful to the intelligence of the people you’re talking to and certainly not helping anyone’s view of Biden supporters.

OP here. NOPE. The issue is thread after thread, poster chime in with “any other Democrat would beat Trump”.

My post was to tease that out, to get an actual name of who that “any other Dem” might be.

6 pages in and no one has named a candidate that would come close to having the name ID, the infrastructure or the political chops to beat Trump.
I would’ve been All In had somebody named public figure that would have a better chance of beating Trump. This thread only shows there isn’t a stronger candidate or consensus.

The time to complain was a year ago. It is now January 2024. We need to stop complaining and pull on our big boy and big girl panties and get behind Joe Biden.

People named candidates. You then made the new rule they had to be running for president. Only one Democrat is— that’s how a party system works.

So no, no one needs to “stop complaining” that the party doesn’t prioritize them. They need to complain more loudly, in more polls, and to every elected official because it’s very clear that their votes are being taken for granted.

Instead of telling people who Biden has ignored to “stop complaining” why don’t you put on those big girl pants and get your candidate to…do better?

He can call the UN Ambassador tomorrow to stop vetoing SC resolutions on Gaza.

He can mandate family-friendly policies in the Federal government— the country’s largest employer!— tomorrow.

Or he can keep on delivering for white men and hope everyone else will get scolded by someone to “stop complaining!” and come to the polls to keep him in his job.

I DID NOT change the rules. I said name someone who could jump in the race TODAY and beat Trump. Whitmer isn’t going to. Richie Torres isn’t going to. Not today. Maybe in 4 1/2 years. I really hope so!

Please understand not liking your choices doesn’t mean you don’t have one.

From one of your earlier posts:

OP here.
1. She's not running.
2. Americas aren't electing a woman right now (I'm a woman)
3. No one outside MN or a political junkie knows who she is

I guess this just another Biden rah rah rah thread.

OP here. You are correct. My post - she's not running wasn't fair. What I meant was she hasn't signaled that she would run. But I admit, I was wrong. I still stand that Klobcher or Whitmer don't have the name recognition to jump in this late in the game to win. And the premise of my thread was just that. I was asking those posters who keep saying in Jan, 2024 that a "generic Dem" would be better, to name what generic Dem COULD jump in NOW. I was asking who your policy choice is, who you would have liked to have run starting 2023, but WHO NOW? And now pages into this, no one has made a case for anyone who could declare today (pretending we don't have filing deadline) and still beat Trump. Because the election is NOW and still complaining is just mad it's cloudy & raining when you wanted to go to the beach. It sucks but it is what it is.

So again, I was wrong on point 1.

Yes, you were wrong on point one.

Now take that self awareness and apply it to the fact that your argument is not persuasive to people who this administration hasn’t delivered for.

You can scream at us to put on our big girl panties and be grateful for the scraps of Biden’s table

Or

You can work to start delivering for the groups who aren’t feeling like they have a seat at that table. I promise you will get more voters on your side if you, for example, get Biden to bring workplace policies to the federal government that benefit Black women— then talk about it in areas like VA where the federal government is a huge employer.

You will get more voters on your side if you get Biden to do better on Gaza— then go talk about it in Michigan.

But sure you can yell at DCUM.

I am not affiliated with the campaign nor was the thread trying to convince people to vote for Biden. It was to highlight that the griping that ANY GENERIC DEM could beat Trump is garbage. It's a bad argument and doesn't hold any weight. Again, sorry that you are unhappy but claiming someone else could do a better job is laughable if it weren't so dangerous. Because all this trash talk about Biden will only help Trump.

Actually all this trash talk about Biden will only help America.

We don’t anoint a president we elect them. So unless we communicate the fact that there is vast dissatisfaction with Biden within the voter base he needs,
We are allowing him to coast to disaster.

His campaign should be scared and his administration should be busy. Instead of scolding about big girl panties every Biden booster should be asking what, in the next 9 months, can Joe Biden do to deliver For You. And then working on that. Working hard— because this is the last nine months he can change anyone’s
mind

And no one— really no one— has ever had their mind changed by someone presenting a fake rhetorical question and then scolding people whose answer she doesn’t like.

At least we all see that there is no magical unicorn candidate that some try to claim is out there.

NP. If there’s no magical unicorn candidate, then the attention needs to be greater and the debate needs to be more vigorous+rigorous. Pretty sure the lazy rhetoric of the Biden boosters is the opposite of that.

I didn’t think you quite understand the threat of Trump. We can have a vigorous + rigorous debate when we aren’t staring down the barrel of authoritarianism. I’m guessing you’re of a certain race & class who will not be impacted by a Trump win. Many of us don’t have that luxury.

If you’re imperiled by a Trump Presidency don’t you have even more incentive to keep the Biden coalition together? So why not work to deliver for that coalition rather than scold people. Do you really think that’s changing minds?

What does Biden need yo deliver to win your vote? Be specific and realistic given that GOP run the House.

He needs to pivot on Gaza at least to bring the United States more in line with our European allies at the U.N. I think reasonable people can disagree on specifics but this 100% support for Israel is both morally and strategically lacking.

And then I would be satisfied with any two from the list below:

1. Roll out family-friendly employment rules in the federal government and challenge the private sector to keep up. Roll it out in Baltimore or another area where BIPOC and especially women are strongly represented (doesn’t require Congress)

2. Find funding within existing HHS pipelines to pilot loan-forgiveness for nurses who work in underserved hospitals (no new appropriation)

3. Lay out a specific roadmap for how he’s going to pass the “human infrastructure” part of his 2020 plan. Include what tradeoffs he’ll make if he can’t get his own party to vote for it/his party doesn’t win the Congress.

4. Actually do something with all the EMTALA complaints made by women who couldn’t access abortion. Call the women who were turned down—at least some of them— and apologize. Ask them how their experience being rejected impacted them.

5. Order the DoJ to look at criminal charges for every hospital system that operates across state borders (many) that has an EMTALA report.

6. Publish the names of every doctor and hospital administrator found to have been involved in denying a woman healthcare so other states can choose not to license them.


Those are all entirely within his power now. My priorities aren’t his priorities but that’s just my off the cuff “what’s the bare minimum he could do” list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok putting everything aside, this great nation of 330 million people has two candidates… Mr.Senile and Mr. Deranged. Like does that not make you guys want to weep? This is just so tragic and I’m worried sick about the future of my children. This is all the country has to offer?!

A more accurate description would be Mr. Senile (Biden) and Mr. Senile and Deranged (Trump). They are not equally flawed. It's disturbing but not sad and tragic. Our political landscape will change for the better sooner or later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will say if Biden loses there will be plenty of people on DCUM explaining that they TOLD you he should have taken the youth vote seriously and they TOLD you he shouldn’t take women for granted.

And your counter-argument will be “but I yelled at them!”

This happened when Trump won in 2016, I was the person who was most aggressive in telling people here that. FWIW, I had been in DC for decades then and knew many senior people in both parties and a handful of big-time political consultants. It’s clear the top of the Democratic Party and its loyalists think their stuff doesn’t smell!

I’m OP. I’m not a political operative, I’m just a mom that is doing the best I can for my kids, and I’m concerned that there a way too many people out there who claim there is a magical mythical candidate but never put a name to it. I am terrified, terrified of a Trump presidency. yes, I am very, very aware that Biden has flaws. But I live in effing reality we have two candidates. There is no one coming to save us only we can save ourselves, so when Democrats are fighting each other, guess who wins!

So you think the way to make people “stop fighting” is to tell them to put on their big girl panties and do what you want?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gretchen Whitmer

OP here.
1. She's not running.
2. Americas aren't electing a woman right now (I'm a woman)
3. No one outside MI or a political junkie knows who she is

1. You’ve changed your criteria since your OP.
2. Says you, since democrats are pinning all their hopes on abortion and turning out women, maybe have a little more respect?
3. Nikki Haley had an even lower profile

OP here.
1. I’ll give you that. She has show no interest in running. But let’s say she wants to run, sadly #2 still holds. People always find some excuse why to not vote for a woman.

I disagree with you about #2. Look how close Clinton came and frankly Whitmer is a significantly better candidate. Add to that she likely carries Michigan which Biden willingly gave up in order to support Netanyahu, and again, she’s my candidate of preference (once again playing by your original rules not your “the only allowed answer is Biden” rules)

I’m OP. I absolutely LOVE Whitmer. I want her to be President. I’m thrilled no one mentioned Gavin Newsom because we all know yhink he deserves the Presidency. But this is not the time.

No, I’m not saying, “only correct answer is Biden.” I’m really truly trying to get people to accept the reality that AT THIS MOMENT Joe Biden is best positioned to beat Trump.

I wish this weren’t the case.
I wish after Trump tried to overturn our election and incited an insurrection Senate Republicans would have voted to convict him. But they didn’t.
I wish after all but a handful of Maga Trump candidates lost in 22, the GOP would’ve seen that staying close to him they would continue to lose seats. But they didn’t.
I wish after Roe was overturned, MAGA realized that abortion bans were a losing issue, but they didn’t.

Yes, I wish the world was different. But it isn’t.

Then start a thread that says “I want you to vote for Joe Biden”

Don’t start a thread asking for alternatives and then being upset when you’re given alternatives that meet your original criteria. It is— if this is possible on DCUM— disrespectful to the intelligence of the people you’re talking to and certainly not helping anyone’s view of Biden supporters.

OP here. NOPE. The issue is thread after thread, poster chime in with “any other Democrat would beat Trump”.

My post was to tease that out, to get an actual name of who that “any other Dem” might be.

6 pages in and no one has named a candidate that would come close to having the name ID, the infrastructure or the political chops to beat Trump.
I would’ve been All In had somebody named public figure that would have a better chance of beating Trump. This thread only shows there isn’t a stronger candidate or consensus.

The time to complain was a year ago. It is now January 2024. We need to stop complaining and pull on our big boy and big girl panties and get behind Joe Biden.

People named candidates. You then made the new rule they had to be running for president. Only one Democrat is— that’s how a party system works.

So no, no one needs to “stop complaining” that the party doesn’t prioritize them. They need to complain more loudly, in more polls, and to every elected official because it’s very clear that their votes are being taken for granted.

Instead of telling people who Biden has ignored to “stop complaining” why don’t you put on those big girl pants and get your candidate to…do better?

He can call the UN Ambassador tomorrow to stop vetoing SC resolutions on Gaza.

He can mandate family-friendly policies in the Federal government— the country’s largest employer!— tomorrow.

Or he can keep on delivering for white men and hope everyone else will get scolded by someone to “stop complaining!” and come to the polls to keep him in his job.

I DID NOT change the rules. I said name someone who could jump in the race TODAY and beat Trump. Whitmer isn’t going to. Richie Torres isn’t going to. Not today. Maybe in 4 1/2 years. I really hope so!

Please understand not liking your choices doesn’t mean you don’t have one.

From one of your earlier posts:

OP here.
1. She's not running.
2. Americas aren't electing a woman right now (I'm a woman)
3. No one outside MN or a political junkie knows who she is

I guess this just another Biden rah rah rah thread.

OP here. You are correct. My post - she's not running wasn't fair. What I meant was she hasn't signaled that she would run. But I admit, I was wrong. I still stand that Klobcher or Whitmer don't have the name recognition to jump in this late in the game to win. And the premise of my thread was just that. I was asking those posters who keep saying in Jan, 2024 that a "generic Dem" would be better, to name what generic Dem COULD jump in NOW. I was asking who your policy choice is, who you would have liked to have run starting 2023, but WHO NOW? And now pages into this, no one has made a case for anyone who could declare today (pretending we don't have filing deadline) and still beat Trump. Because the election is NOW and still complaining is just mad it's cloudy & raining when you wanted to go to the beach. It sucks but it is what it is.

So again, I was wrong on point 1.

Yes, you were wrong on point one.

Now take that self awareness and apply it to the fact that your argument is not persuasive to people who this administration hasn’t delivered for.

You can scream at us to put on our big girl panties and be grateful for the scraps of Biden’s table

Or

You can work to start delivering for the groups who aren’t feeling like they have a seat at that table. I promise you will get more voters on your side if you, for example, get Biden to bring workplace policies to the federal government that benefit Black women— then talk about it in areas like VA where the federal government is a huge employer.

You will get more voters on your side if you get Biden to do better on Gaza— then go talk about it in Michigan.

But sure you can yell at DCUM.

I am not affiliated with the campaign nor was the thread trying to convince people to vote for Biden. It was to highlight that the griping that ANY GENERIC DEM could beat Trump is garbage. It's a bad argument and doesn't hold any weight. Again, sorry that you are unhappy but claiming someone else could do a better job is laughable if it weren't so dangerous. Because all this trash talk about Biden will only help Trump.

Actually all this trash talk about Biden will only help America.

We don’t anoint a president we elect them. So unless we communicate the fact that there is vast dissatisfaction with Biden within the voter base he needs,
We are allowing him to coast to disaster.

His campaign should be scared and his administration should be busy. Instead of scolding about big girl panties every Biden booster should be asking what, in the next 9 months, can Joe Biden do to deliver For You. And then working on that. Working hard— because this is the last nine months he can change anyone’s
mind

And no one— really no one— has ever had their mind changed by someone presenting a fake rhetorical question and then scolding people whose answer she doesn’t like.

At least we all see that there is no magical unicorn candidate that some try to claim is out there.

NP. If there’s no magical unicorn candidate, then the attention needs to be greater and the debate needs to be more vigorous+rigorous. Pretty sure the lazy rhetoric of the Biden boosters is the opposite of that.

I didn’t think you quite understand the threat of Trump. We can have a vigorous + rigorous debate when we aren’t staring down the barrel of authoritarianism. I’m guessing you’re of a certain race & class who will not be impacted by a Trump win. Many of us don’t have that luxury.

If you’re imperiled by a Trump Presidency don’t you have even more incentive to keep the Biden coalition together? So why not work to deliver for that coalition rather than scold people. Do you really think that’s changing minds?

What does Biden need yo deliver to win your vote? Be specific and realistic given that GOP run the House.

You should make this a thread it’s likely to be much more constructive and maybe even interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is no one suggesting Kamala? She’s the obvious choice.

people across the political spectrum think that Kamala is personally unlikable, more ideological than thoughtful, and got where she is due to identity politics. also she has a nervous laughter at inappropriate times that seems very un-presidential.

does anyone disagree with these criticisms?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gretchen Whitmer

OP here.
1. She's not running.
2. Americas aren't electing a woman right now (I'm a woman)
3. No one outside MI or a political junkie knows who she is

1. You’ve changed your criteria since your OP.
2. Says you, since democrats are pinning all their hopes on abortion and turning out women, maybe have a little more respect?
3. Nikki Haley had an even lower profile

OP here.
1. I’ll give you that. She has show no interest in running. But let’s say she wants to run, sadly #2 still holds. People always find some excuse why to not vote for a woman.

I disagree with you about #2. Look how close Clinton came and frankly Whitmer is a significantly better candidate. Add to that she likely carries Michigan which Biden willingly gave up in order to support Netanyahu, and again, she’s my candidate of preference (once again playing by your original rules not your “the only allowed answer is Biden” rules)

I’m OP. I absolutely LOVE Whitmer. I want her to be President. I’m thrilled no one mentioned Gavin Newsom because we all know yhink he deserves the Presidency. But this is not the time.

No, I’m not saying, “only correct answer is Biden.” I’m really truly trying to get people to accept the reality that AT THIS MOMENT Joe Biden is best positioned to beat Trump.

I wish this weren’t the case.
I wish after Trump tried to overturn our election and incited an insurrection Senate Republicans would have voted to convict him. But they didn’t.
I wish after all but a handful of Maga Trump candidates lost in 22, the GOP would’ve seen that staying close to him they would continue to lose seats. But they didn’t.
I wish after Roe was overturned, MAGA realized that abortion bans were a losing issue, but they didn’t.

Yes, I wish the world was different. But it isn’t.

Then start a thread that says “I want you to vote for Joe Biden”

Don’t start a thread asking for alternatives and then being upset when you’re given alternatives that meet your original criteria. It is— if this is possible on DCUM— disrespectful to the intelligence of the people you’re talking to and certainly not helping anyone’s view of Biden supporters.

OP here. NOPE. The issue is thread after thread, poster chime in with “any other Democrat would beat Trump”.

My post was to tease that out, to get an actual name of who that “any other Dem” might be.

6 pages in and no one has named a candidate that would come close to having the name ID, the infrastructure or the political chops to beat Trump.
I would’ve been All In had somebody named public figure that would have a better chance of beating Trump. This thread only shows there isn’t a stronger candidate or consensus.

The time to complain was a year ago. It is now January 2024. We need to stop complaining and pull on our big boy and big girl panties and get behind Joe Biden.

People named candidates. You then made the new rule they had to be running for president. Only one Democrat is— that’s how a party system works.

So no, no one needs to “stop complaining” that the party doesn’t prioritize them. They need to complain more loudly, in more polls, and to every elected official because it’s very clear that their votes are being taken for granted.

Instead of telling people who Biden has ignored to “stop complaining” why don’t you put on those big girl pants and get your candidate to…do better?

He can call the UN Ambassador tomorrow to stop vetoing SC resolutions on Gaza.

He can mandate family-friendly policies in the Federal government— the country’s largest employer!— tomorrow.

Or he can keep on delivering for white men and hope everyone else will get scolded by someone to “stop complaining!” and come to the polls to keep him in his job.

I DID NOT change the rules. I said name someone who could jump in the race TODAY and beat Trump. Whitmer isn’t going to. Richie Torres isn’t going to. Not today. Maybe in 4 1/2 years. I really hope so!

Please understand not liking your choices doesn’t mean you don’t have one.

From one of your earlier posts:

OP here.
1. She's not running.
2. Americas aren't electing a woman right now (I'm a woman)
3. No one outside MN or a political junkie knows who she is

I guess this just another Biden rah rah rah thread.

OP here. You are correct. My post - she's not running wasn't fair. What I meant was she hasn't signaled that she would run. But I admit, I was wrong. I still stand that Klobcher or Whitmer don't have the name recognition to jump in this late in the game to win. And the premise of my thread was just that. I was asking those posters who keep saying in Jan, 2024 that a "generic Dem" would be better, to name what generic Dem COULD jump in NOW. I was asking who your policy choice is, who you would have liked to have run starting 2023, but WHO NOW? And now pages into this, no one has made a case for anyone who could declare today (pretending we don't have filing deadline) and still beat Trump. Because the election is NOW and still complaining is just mad it's cloudy & raining when you wanted to go to the beach. It sucks but it is what it is.

So again, I was wrong on point 1.

Yes, you were wrong on point one.

Now take that self awareness and apply it to the fact that your argument is not persuasive to people who this administration hasn’t delivered for.

You can scream at us to put on our big girl panties and be grateful for the scraps of Biden’s table

Or

You can work to start delivering for the groups who aren’t feeling like they have a seat at that table. I promise you will get more voters on your side if you, for example, get Biden to bring workplace policies to the federal government that benefit Black women— then talk about it in areas like VA where the federal government is a huge employer.

You will get more voters on your side if you get Biden to do better on Gaza— then go talk about it in Michigan.

But sure you can yell at DCUM.

I am not affiliated with the campaign nor was the thread trying to convince people to vote for Biden. It was to highlight that the griping that ANY GENERIC DEM could beat Trump is garbage. It's a bad argument and doesn't hold any weight. Again, sorry that you are unhappy but claiming someone else could do a better job is laughable if it weren't so dangerous. Because all this trash talk about Biden will only help Trump.

Actually all this trash talk about Biden will only help America.

We don’t anoint a president we elect them. So unless we communicate the fact that there is vast dissatisfaction with Biden within the voter base he needs,
We are allowing him to coast to disaster.

His campaign should be scared and his administration should be busy. Instead of scolding about big girl panties every Biden booster should be asking what, in the next 9 months, can Joe Biden do to deliver For You. And then working on that. Working hard— because this is the last nine months he can change anyone’s
mind

And no one— really no one— has ever had their mind changed by someone presenting a fake rhetorical question and then scolding people whose answer she doesn’t like.

At least we all see that there is no magical unicorn candidate that some try to claim is out there.

NP. If there’s no magical unicorn candidate, then the attention needs to be greater and the debate needs to be more vigorous+rigorous. Pretty sure the lazy rhetoric of the Biden boosters is the opposite of that.

I didn’t think you quite understand the threat of Trump. We can have a vigorous + rigorous debate when we aren’t staring down the barrel of authoritarianism. I’m guessing you’re of a certain race & class who will not be impacted by a Trump win. Many of us don’t have that luxury.

If you’re imperiled by a Trump Presidency don’t you have even more incentive to keep the Biden coalition together? So why not work to deliver for that coalition rather than scold people. Do you really think that’s changing minds?

What does Biden need yo deliver to win your vote? Be specific and realistic given that GOP run the House.

Step away from the Middle East and stop taking part in the genocide of Palestinian people. Stop sending billions to Israel and invest that money in our education and healthcare. Foreign policy is strictly under the President’s control and like it or not Trump was very anti war.

I guess you missed the wall street journal report about Biden's efforts against Netanyahu, but if you believe another US president would do more for the Palestinians than Biden, I have news for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will say if Biden loses there will be plenty of people on DCUM explaining that they TOLD you he should have taken the youth vote seriously and they TOLD you he shouldn’t take women for granted.

And your counter-argument will be “but I yelled at them!”

This happened when Trump won in 2016, I was the person who was most aggressive in telling people here that. FWIW, I had been in DC for decades then and knew many senior people in both parties and a handful of big-time political consultants. It’s clear the top of the Democratic Party and its loyalists think their stuff doesn’t smell!

I’m OP. I’m not a political operative, I’m just a mom that is doing the best I can for my kids, and I’m concerned that there a way too many people out there who claim there is a magical mythical candidate but never put a name to it. I am terrified, terrified of a Trump presidency. yes, I am very, very aware that Biden has flaws. But I live in effing reality we have two candidates. There is no one coming to save us only we can save ourselves, so when Democrats are fighting each other, guess who wins!

So you think the way to make people “stop fighting” is to tell them to put on their big girl panties and do what you want?

When people are both sides in hand just crying about not have a mythical magical candidate then someone needs to tell them to grow up.

Now for what you think Biden could do, that is a different thread, conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gretchen Whitmer

OP here.
1. She's not running.
2. Americas aren't electing a woman right now (I'm a woman)
3. No one outside MI or a political junkie knows who she is

1. You’ve changed your criteria since your OP.
2. Says you, since democrats are pinning all their hopes on abortion and turning out women, maybe have a little more respect?
3. Nikki Haley had an even lower profile

OP here.
1. I’ll give you that. She has show no interest in running. But let’s say she wants to run, sadly #2 still holds. People always find some excuse why to not vote for a woman.

I disagree with you about #2. Look how close Clinton came and frankly Whitmer is a significantly better candidate. Add to that she likely carries Michigan which Biden willingly gave up in order to support Netanyahu, and again, she’s my candidate of preference (once again playing by your original rules not your “the only allowed answer is Biden” rules)

I’m OP. I absolutely LOVE Whitmer. I want her to be President. I’m thrilled no one mentioned Gavin Newsom because we all know yhink he deserves the Presidency. But this is not the time.

No, I’m not saying, “only correct answer is Biden.” I’m really truly trying to get people to accept the reality that AT THIS MOMENT Joe Biden is best positioned to beat Trump.

I wish this weren’t the case.
I wish after Trump tried to overturn our election and incited an insurrection Senate Republicans would have voted to convict him. But they didn’t.
I wish after all but a handful of Maga Trump candidates lost in 22, the GOP would’ve seen that staying close to him they would continue to lose seats. But they didn’t.
I wish after Roe was overturned, MAGA realized that abortion bans were a losing issue, but they didn’t.

Yes, I wish the world was different. But it isn’t.

Then start a thread that says “I want you to vote for Joe Biden”

Don’t start a thread asking for alternatives and then being upset when you’re given alternatives that meet your original criteria. It is— if this is possible on DCUM— disrespectful to the intelligence of the people you’re talking to and certainly not helping anyone’s view of Biden supporters.

OP here. NOPE. The issue is thread after thread, poster chime in with “any other Democrat would beat Trump”.

My post was to tease that out, to get an actual name of who that “any other Dem” might be.

6 pages in and no one has named a candidate that would come close to having the name ID, the infrastructure or the political chops to beat Trump.
I would’ve been All In had somebody named public figure that would have a better chance of beating Trump. This thread only shows there isn’t a stronger candidate or consensus.

The time to complain was a year ago. It is now January 2024. We need to stop complaining and pull on our big boy and big girl panties and get behind Joe Biden.

People named candidates. You then made the new rule they had to be running for president. Only one Democrat is— that’s how a party system works.

So no, no one needs to “stop complaining” that the party doesn’t prioritize them. They need to complain more loudly, in more polls, and to every elected official because it’s very clear that their votes are being taken for granted.

Instead of telling people who Biden has ignored to “stop complaining” why don’t you put on those big girl pants and get your candidate to…do better?

He can call the UN Ambassador tomorrow to stop vetoing SC resolutions on Gaza.

He can mandate family-friendly policies in the Federal government— the country’s largest employer!— tomorrow.

Or he can keep on delivering for white men and hope everyone else will get scolded by someone to “stop complaining!” and come to the polls to keep him in his job.

I DID NOT change the rules. I said name someone who could jump in the race TODAY and beat Trump. Whitmer isn’t going to. Richie Torres isn’t going to. Not today. Maybe in 4 1/2 years. I really hope so!

Please understand not liking your choices doesn’t mean you don’t have one.

From one of your earlier posts:

OP here.
1. She's not running.
2. Americas aren't electing a woman right now (I'm a woman)
3. No one outside MN or a political junkie knows who she is

I guess this just another Biden rah rah rah thread.

OP here. You are correct. My post - she's not running wasn't fair. What I meant was she hasn't signaled that she would run. But I admit, I was wrong. I still stand that Klobcher or Whitmer don't have the name recognition to jump in this late in the game to win. And the premise of my thread was just that. I was asking those posters who keep saying in Jan, 2024 that a "generic Dem" would be better, to name what generic Dem COULD jump in NOW. I was asking who your policy choice is, who you would have liked to have run starting 2023, but WHO NOW? And now pages into this, no one has made a case for anyone who could declare today (pretending we don't have filing deadline) and still beat Trump. Because the election is NOW and still complaining is just mad it's cloudy & raining when you wanted to go to the beach. It sucks but it is what it is.

So again, I was wrong on point 1.

Yes, you were wrong on point one.

Now take that self awareness and apply it to the fact that your argument is not persuasive to people who this administration hasn’t delivered for.

You can scream at us to put on our big girl panties and be grateful for the scraps of Biden’s table

Or

You can work to start delivering for the groups who aren’t feeling like they have a seat at that table. I promise you will get more voters on your side if you, for example, get Biden to bring workplace policies to the federal government that benefit Black women— then talk about it in areas like VA where the federal government is a huge employer.

You will get more voters on your side if you get Biden to do better on Gaza— then go talk about it in Michigan.

But sure you can yell at DCUM.

I am not affiliated with the campaign nor was the thread trying to convince people to vote for Biden. It was to highlight that the griping that ANY GENERIC DEM could beat Trump is garbage. It's a bad argument and doesn't hold any weight. Again, sorry that you are unhappy but claiming someone else could do a better job is laughable if it weren't so dangerous. Because all this trash talk about Biden will only help Trump.

Actually all this trash talk about Biden will only help America.

We don’t anoint a president we elect them. So unless we communicate the fact that there is vast dissatisfaction with Biden within the voter base he needs,
We are allowing him to coast to disaster.

His campaign should be scared and his administration should be busy. Instead of scolding about big girl panties every Biden booster should be asking what, in the next 9 months, can Joe Biden do to deliver For You. And then working on that. Working hard— because this is the last nine months he can change anyone’s
mind

And no one— really no one— has ever had their mind changed by someone presenting a fake rhetorical question and then scolding people whose answer she doesn’t like.

At least we all see that there is no magical unicorn candidate that some try to claim is out there.

NP. If there’s no magical unicorn candidate, then the attention needs to be greater and the debate needs to be more vigorous+rigorous. Pretty sure the lazy rhetoric of the Biden boosters is the opposite of that.

I didn’t think you quite understand the threat of Trump. We can have a vigorous + rigorous debate when we aren’t staring down the barrel of authoritarianism. I’m guessing you’re of a certain race & class who will not be impacted by a Trump win. Many of us don’t have that luxury.

If you’re imperiled by a Trump Presidency don’t you have even more incentive to keep the Biden coalition together? So why not work to deliver for that coalition rather than scold people. Do you really think that’s changing minds?

What does Biden need yo deliver to win your vote? Be specific and realistic given that GOP run the House.

Step away from the Middle East and stop taking part in the genocide of Palestinian people. Stop sending billions to Israel and invest that money in our education and healthcare. Foreign policy is strictly under the President’s control and like it or not Trump was very anti war.

What is Whitmers position on this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will say if Biden loses there will be plenty of people on DCUM explaining that they TOLD you he should have taken the youth vote seriously and they TOLD you he shouldn’t take women for granted.

And your counter-argument will be “but I yelled at them!”

This happened when Trump won in 2016, I was the person who was most aggressive in telling people here that. FWIW, I had been in DC for decades then and knew many senior people in both parties and a handful of big-time political consultants. It’s clear the top of the Democratic Party and its loyalists think their stuff doesn’t smell!

I’m OP. I’m not a political operative, I’m just a mom that is doing the best I can for my kids, and I’m concerned that there a way too many people out there who claim there is a magical mythical candidate but never put a name to it. I am terrified, terrified of a Trump presidency. yes, I am very, very aware that Biden has flaws. But I live in effing reality we have two candidates. There is no one coming to save us only we can save ourselves, so when Democrats are fighting each other, guess who wins!

So you think the way to make people “stop fighting” is to tell them to put on their big girl panties and do what you want?

When people are both sides in hand just crying about not have a mythical magical candidate then someone needs to tell them to grow up.

Now for what you think Biden could do, that is a different thread, conversation.

Yeah no one was doing that. But ok. Keep being condescending and rude to the voters you need because you’re “really really” scared of Trump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My magical democrat - Michelle Obama

Agree

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will say if Biden loses there will be plenty of people on DCUM explaining that they TOLD you he should have taken the youth vote seriously and they TOLD you he shouldn’t take women for granted.

And your counter-argument will be “but I yelled at them!”

First part yes, but second part no, given the abortion issue.