Surrogacy abroad

[Anonymous]

This is what the EU parliament said 1 month ago

Moreover, surrogacy is now considered together with crimes as slavery, forced marriage, illegal adoption or exploitation of children. Surrogacy violates human dignity – that of the child as well as the mother – as a form of exploitation that targets the most vulnerable”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is what the EU parliament said 1 month ago

Moreover, surrogacy is now considered together with crimes as slavery, forced marriage, illegal adoption or exploitation of children. Surrogacy violates human dignity – that of the child as well as the mother – as a form of exploitation that targets the most vulnerable”

Bet they buy avocados though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is what the EU parliament said 1 month ago

Moreover, surrogacy is now considered together with crimes as slavery, forced marriage, illegal adoption or exploitation of children. Surrogacy violates human dignity – that of the child as well as the mother – as a form of exploitation that targets the most vulnerable”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes in this life you just don't get what you want. I understand that for people experiencing infertility, the lack of a child is like a gaping chest wound, but that doesn't make it right to exploit others for your personal benefit. Having a child is not actually a human right.

You would be the first to change your tune if it happens to you.

No, not everyone who experiences infertility makes their problem other people’s problem as well.

Easy for you to talk when you’ve effortlessly popped out your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes in this life you just don't get what you want. I understand that for people experiencing infertility, the lack of a child is like a gaping chest wound, but that doesn't make it right to exploit others for your personal benefit. Having a child is not actually a human right.

You would be the first to change your tune if it happens to you.

No, not everyone who experiences infertility makes their problem other people’s problem as well.

Easy for you to talk when you’ve effortlessly popped out your kids.

Moreover, surrogacy is now considered together with crimes as slavery, forced marriage, illegal adoption or exploitation of children. Surrogacy violates human dignity – that of the child as well as the mother – as a form of exploitation that targets the most vulnerable”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes in this life you just don't get what you want. I understand that for people experiencing infertility, the lack of a child is like a gaping chest wound, but that doesn't make it right to exploit others for your personal benefit. Having a child is not actually a human right.

You would be the first to change your tune if it happens to you.

No, not everyone who experiences infertility makes their problem other people’s problem as well.

Easy for you to talk when you’ve effortlessly popped out your kids.

Did you have a surrogate? Is that why youre so defensive? You feel guilty over paying a poor person to grow your child?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes in this life you just don't get what you want. I understand that for people experiencing infertility, the lack of a child is like a gaping chest wound, but that doesn't make it right to exploit others for your personal benefit. Having a child is not actually a human right.

You would be the first to change your tune if it happens to you.

if what happens? I asked this upthread and you still havent answered?

What is the line where its justifiable to impregnate women like cattle and buy their baby?

This is incredibly insulting towards women who choose to become surrogates.

When cattle are sentient, can make their own decisions about their bodies, and are fairly compensated for their labor, it will be a fair analogy. Until then, you’re babbling.

Your dogged refusal to allow these women any agency at all is pretty gross and paternalistic.

What is this? Who decides? Have you read the articles posted about this being borderline trafficking?

Those pearls of journalistic wisdom you are referring to is just one article by a muck journalist for the India Times who has been discredited for making up propaganda and lies many times.

https://www.opindia.com/2020/02/india-times-shweta-sengar-fake-news-propaganda/amp/

Don’t you think if you were hired to try to justify ending surrogacy in India, you’d make up lies about what was happening with surrogacy in Ukraine? I don’t believe a syllable of that article. It’s hardly a hard hitting article by a respected, trusted journalist.

India Times isn't good enough? You want more? It's not hard to google. Here's a BBC article:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42845602

"We have seen examples where Ukrainian agencies have refused to pay the surrogate if she doesn't adhere to strict requirements, if she miscarries," says Mr Everingham. "There are some awful examples where agencies really treated surrogates dreadfully in Ukraine if things haven't worked out to the benefit of parents."

"The industry, Ms Bogomolets says, is not sufficiently regulated and this lack of oversight can put both surrogate mothers and the paying parents at risk."

And another:

https://www.balcanicaucaso.org/eng/Areas/Ukraine/Surrogate-motherhood-and-exploitation-in-Ukraine-203929

"...many clinics (not registered or under a false name), foreign couples, intermediary agencies, or even improvised surrogate mothers do things under the table in order not to pay taxes, obviously without taking care of any consequences if something goes wrong."

' "Two-thirds of the surrogacy market in Ukraine is illegal", says Serhiy Antonov, jurist at IRTSA Ukraine (International Agency for Assistance in Auxiliary Reproduction Technologies), who stresses how easy it is to find surrogate mothers on social networks, instant messaging services (Viber, Telegram), job search platforms, or even on advertising spaces on the underground.'

Take a closer look at those articles. They’re basically the same thing as the first India Times one. Look at article number two. Like the India Times article it’s obvious Islamic propaganda from Al Jezeera. Sharia law prohibits surrogacy.

I’m not a Muslim and will never be, but I’ll bet the guy, Kevin Ponniah, who wrote the BBC article is.

You can’t keep showing me articles from journalists blinded by their Islamic faith and call that evidence of the immorality of surrogacy.

I’ll hardly defer to sharia law on any moral grounds let alone women’s rights issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes in this life you just don't get what you want. I understand that for people experiencing infertility, the lack of a child is like a gaping chest wound, but that doesn't make it right to exploit others for your personal benefit. Having a child is not actually a human right.

You would be the first to change your tune if it happens to you.

if what happens? I asked this upthread and you still havent answered?

What is the line where its justifiable to impregnate women like cattle and buy their baby?

This is incredibly insulting towards women who choose to become surrogates.

When cattle are sentient, can make their own decisions about their bodies, and are fairly compensated for their labor, it will be a fair analogy. Until then, you’re babbling.

Your dogged refusal to allow these women any agency at all is pretty gross and paternalistic.

What is this? Who decides? Have you read the articles posted about this being borderline trafficking?

Those pearls of journalistic wisdom you are referring to is just one article by a muck journalist for the India Times who has been discredited for making up propaganda and lies many times.

https://www.opindia.com/2020/02/india-times-shweta-sengar-fake-news-propaganda/amp/

Don’t you think if you were hired to try to justify ending surrogacy in India, you’d make up lies about what was happening with surrogacy in Ukraine? I don’t believe a syllable of that article. It’s hardly a hard hitting article by a respected, trusted journalist.

India Times isn't good enough? You want more? It's not hard to google. Here's a BBC article:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42845602

"We have seen examples where Ukrainian agencies have refused to pay the surrogate if she doesn't adhere to strict requirements, if she miscarries," says Mr Everingham. "There are some awful examples where agencies really treated surrogates dreadfully in Ukraine if things haven't worked out to the benefit of parents."

"The industry, Ms Bogomolets says, is not sufficiently regulated and this lack of oversight can put both surrogate mothers and the paying parents at risk."

And another:

https://www.balcanicaucaso.org/eng/Areas/Ukraine/Surrogate-motherhood-and-exploitation-in-Ukraine-203929

"...many clinics (not registered or under a false name), foreign couples, intermediary agencies, or even improvised surrogate mothers do things under the table in order not to pay taxes, obviously without taking care of any consequences if something goes wrong."

' "Two-thirds of the surrogacy market in Ukraine is illegal", says Serhiy Antonov, jurist at IRTSA Ukraine (International Agency for Assistance in Auxiliary Reproduction Technologies), who stresses how easy it is to find surrogate mothers on social networks, instant messaging services (Viber, Telegram), job search platforms, or even on advertising spaces on the underground.'

Take a closer look at those articles. They’re basically the same thing as the first India Times one. Look at article number two. Like the India Times article it’s obvious Islamic propaganda from Al Jezeera. Sharia law prohibits surrogacy.

I’m not a Muslim and will never be, but I’ll bet the guy, Kevin Ponniah, who wrote the BBC article is.

You can’t keep showing me articles from journalists blinded by their Islamic faith and call that evidence of the immorality of surrogacy.

I’ll hardly defer to sharia law on any moral grounds let alone women’s rights issues.

The racist anti Indian poster is back, is unsurprisingly also anti Muslim. I see that racism and ad hominem attacks (another logical fallacy) are your MO for trying to discredit articles, because you’re unable to use logic or argue in any substantial capacity. But it is interesting that you bring up women’s rights. The cognitive dissonance must be killing your brain cells. Women’s rights don’t include the rights of women to exploit other women. Try again.

[Anonymous]

We just decided to stop trying OP. The cost of adoption or surrogacy was too much for us. Maybe one day we will be ready to try the foster care system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes in this life you just don't get what you want. I understand that for people experiencing infertility, the lack of a child is like a gaping chest wound, but that doesn't make it right to exploit others for your personal benefit. Having a child is not actually a human right.

You would be the first to change your tune if it happens to you.

No, not everyone who experiences infertility makes their problem other people’s problem as well.

Easy for you to talk when you’ve effortlessly popped out your kids.

I have no children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes in this life you just don't get what you want. I understand that for people experiencing infertility, the lack of a child is like a gaping chest wound, but that doesn't make it right to exploit others for your personal benefit. Having a child is not actually a human right.

You would be the first to change your tune if it happens to you.

No, not everyone who experiences infertility makes their problem other people’s problem as well.

Easy for you to talk when you’ve effortlessly popped out your kids.

Did you have a surrogate? Is that why youre so defensive? You feel guilty over paying a poor person to grow your child?

Yes, I had a surrogate. And no, I don’t feel guilty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes in this life you just don't get what you want. I understand that for people experiencing infertility, the lack of a child is like a gaping chest wound, but that doesn't make it right to exploit others for your personal benefit. Having a child is not actually a human right.

You would be the first to change your tune if it happens to you.

No, not everyone who experiences infertility makes their problem other people’s problem as well.

Easy for you to talk when you’ve effortlessly popped out your kids.

Did you have a surrogate? Is that why youre so defensive? You feel guilty over paying a poor person to grow your child?

Yes, I had a surrogate. And no, I don’t feel guilty.

Uh huh. That’s why you’re so defensive and insecure in your choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes in this life you just don't get what you want. I understand that for people experiencing infertility, the lack of a child is like a gaping chest wound, but that doesn't make it right to exploit others for your personal benefit. Having a child is not actually a human right.

You would be the first to change your tune if it happens to you.

if what happens? I asked this upthread and you still havent answered?

What is the line where its justifiable to impregnate women like cattle and buy their baby?

This is incredibly insulting towards women who choose to become surrogates.

When cattle are sentient, can make their own decisions about their bodies, and are fairly compensated for their labor, it will be a fair analogy. Until then, you’re babbling.

Your dogged refusal to allow these women any agency at all is pretty gross and paternalistic.

What is this? Who decides? Have you read the articles posted about this being borderline trafficking?

Those pearls of journalistic wisdom you are referring to is just one article by a muck journalist for the India Times who has been discredited for making up propaganda and lies many times.

https://www.opindia.com/2020/02/india-times-shweta-sengar-fake-news-propaganda/amp/

Don’t you think if you were hired to try to justify ending surrogacy in India, you’d make up lies about what was happening with surrogacy in Ukraine? I don’t believe a syllable of that article. It’s hardly a hard hitting article by a respected, trusted journalist.

India Times isn't good enough? You want more? It's not hard to google. Here's a BBC article:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42845602

"We have seen examples where Ukrainian agencies have refused to pay the surrogate if she doesn't adhere to strict requirements, if she miscarries," says Mr Everingham. "There are some awful examples where agencies really treated surrogates dreadfully in Ukraine if things haven't worked out to the benefit of parents."

"The industry, Ms Bogomolets says, is not sufficiently regulated and this lack of oversight can put both surrogate mothers and the paying parents at risk."

And another:

https://www.balcanicaucaso.org/eng/Areas/Ukraine/Surrogate-motherhood-and-exploitation-in-Ukraine-203929

"...many clinics (not registered or under a false name), foreign couples, intermediary agencies, or even improvised surrogate mothers do things under the table in order not to pay taxes, obviously without taking care of any consequences if something goes wrong."

' "Two-thirds of the surrogacy market in Ukraine is illegal", says Serhiy Antonov, jurist at IRTSA Ukraine (International Agency for Assistance in Auxiliary Reproduction Technologies), who stresses how easy it is to find surrogate mothers on social networks, instant messaging services (Viber, Telegram), job search platforms, or even on advertising spaces on the underground.'

Take a closer look at those articles. They’re basically the same thing as the first India Times one. Look at article number two. Like the India Times article it’s obvious Islamic propaganda from Al Jezeera. Sharia law prohibits surrogacy.

I’m not a Muslim and will never be, but I’ll bet the guy, Kevin Ponniah, who wrote the BBC article is.

You can’t keep showing me articles from journalists blinded by their Islamic faith and call that evidence of the immorality of surrogacy.

I’ll hardly defer to sharia law on any moral grounds let alone women’s rights issues.

The racist anti Indian poster is back, is unsurprisingly also anti Muslim. I see that racism and ad hominem attacks (another logical fallacy) are your MO for trying to discredit articles, because you’re unable to use logic or argue in any substantial capacity. But it is interesting that you bring up women’s rights. The cognitive dissonance must be killing your brain cells. Women’s rights don’t include the rights of women to exploit other women. Try again.

Who can understand a word of your above rant? I can’t get beyond the first sentence and the obligatory accusation of bigotry. Hobbling together a bunch of mismatched terms of art doesn’t make an argument. It makes word salad. Try again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes in this life you just don't get what you want. I understand that for people experiencing infertility, the lack of a child is like a gaping chest wound, but that doesn't make it right to exploit others for your personal benefit. Having a child is not actually a human right.

You would be the first to change your tune if it happens to you.

if what happens? I asked this upthread and you still havent answered?

What is the line where its justifiable to impregnate women like cattle and buy their baby?

This is incredibly insulting towards women who choose to become surrogates.

When cattle are sentient, can make their own decisions about their bodies, and are fairly compensated for their labor, it will be a fair analogy. Until then, you’re babbling.

Your dogged refusal to allow these women any agency at all is pretty gross and paternalistic.

What is this? Who decides? Have you read the articles posted about this being borderline trafficking?

Those pearls of journalistic wisdom you are referring to is just one article by a muck journalist for the India Times who has been discredited for making up propaganda and lies many times.

https://www.opindia.com/2020/02/india-times-shweta-sengar-fake-news-propaganda/amp/

Don’t you think if you were hired to try to justify ending surrogacy in India, you’d make up lies about what was happening with surrogacy in Ukraine? I don’t believe a syllable of that article. It’s hardly a hard hitting article by a respected, trusted journalist.

India Times isn't good enough? You want more? It's not hard to google. Here's a BBC article:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42845602

"We have seen examples where Ukrainian agencies have refused to pay the surrogate if she doesn't adhere to strict requirements, if she miscarries," says Mr Everingham. "There are some awful examples where agencies really treated surrogates dreadfully in Ukraine if things haven't worked out to the benefit of parents."

"The industry, Ms Bogomolets says, is not sufficiently regulated and this lack of oversight can put both surrogate mothers and the paying parents at risk."

And another:

https://www.balcanicaucaso.org/eng/Areas/Ukraine/Surrogate-motherhood-and-exploitation-in-Ukraine-203929

"...many clinics (not registered or under a false name), foreign couples, intermediary agencies, or even improvised surrogate mothers do things under the table in order not to pay taxes, obviously without taking care of any consequences if something goes wrong."

' "Two-thirds of the surrogacy market in Ukraine is illegal", says Serhiy Antonov, jurist at IRTSA Ukraine (International Agency for Assistance in Auxiliary Reproduction Technologies), who stresses how easy it is to find surrogate mothers on social networks, instant messaging services (Viber, Telegram), job search platforms, or even on advertising spaces on the underground.'

Take a closer look at those articles. They’re basically the same thing as the first India Times one. Look at article number two. Like the India Times article it’s obvious Islamic propaganda from Al Jezeera. Sharia law prohibits surrogacy.

I’m not a Muslim and will never be, but I’ll bet the guy, Kevin Ponniah, who wrote the BBC article is.

You can’t keep showing me articles from journalists blinded by their Islamic faith and call that evidence of the immorality of surrogacy.

I’ll hardly defer to sharia law on any moral grounds let alone women’s rights issues.

The racist anti Indian poster is back, is unsurprisingly also anti Muslim. I see that racism and ad hominem attacks (another logical fallacy) are your MO for trying to discredit articles, because you’re unable to use logic or argue in any substantial capacity. But it is interesting that you bring up women’s rights. The cognitive dissonance must be killing your brain cells. Women’s rights don’t include the rights of women to exploit other women. Try again.

And yes, as a Western woman, an agnostic and a classical liberal, I am proudly and vehemently opposed to Sharia law. I stand for freedom and the American way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes in this life you just don't get what you want. I understand that for people experiencing infertility, the lack of a child is like a gaping chest wound, but that doesn't make it right to exploit others for your personal benefit. Having a child is not actually a human right.

You would be the first to change your tune if it happens to you.

No, not everyone who experiences infertility makes their problem other people’s problem as well.

Easy for you to talk when you’ve effortlessly popped out your kids.

Did you have a surrogate? Is that why youre so defensive? You feel guilty over paying a poor person to grow your child?

Yes, I had a surrogate. And no, I don’t feel guilty.

Uh huh. That’s why you’re so defensive and insecure in your choice.

I never had a surrogate and easily popped out kids. So, you can’t accuse me of feeling desperate or defensive about it. I support it wholeheartedly.

I think it’s a miracle of medical science and humanity that doctors can take a little egg, a tiny sperm and create an embryo in a Petri dish to then implant in a willing surrogate. It’s amazing that the surrogate’s body doesn’t reject the foreign dna and that a baby can grow.

I am delighted for the infertile women (and their husbands if they have them) who can now have the babies they dreamed about. I’m thrilled that gay men are no longer relegated to be uncles or doggie daddies and can have a family and be loved as a parent like everyone else.

I do not think paid surrogacy is immoral, appalling or bad in any way. I am sure that things can go wrong, but for me the good outweighs the potential bad.

To the rabid anti surrogacy posters, I have this to say: there is no argument you can make that will persuade me to change my views on the subject. My opinion isn’t relevant to you, I get it, but yours is unwarranted on an infertility board where people are seeking support in achieving the families THEY want. It’s not about you.

Can’t you all leave this board and get together and form some sort of private anti surrogacy one? You can email each other back and forth about the evils of surrogacy, and equate it to slavery until the cows come home.

But can’t you just get lost from this infertility support group? You’re insensitive and misguided to say the least.

Get lost!