Why is Cornell called "lower Ivy"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone posted another thread, but Cornell has placement per capita for med school that doesn't keep pace with the other ivys, but instead Vandy, Emory, WashU, etc. This reiterates the point that these schools have caught up with Cornell.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1149442.page

Cornell does not have placement for med school like other Ivies because it is not like other Ivies. Cornell is very heavily represented in majors where the kids have self selected away from any potential med school interest. 6 of the 7 undergrad colleges probably don't send a single student on to med school in a given graduation class. Hotel Administration, ALS (agriculture), ILR (industrial labor relations), Human Ecology, Dyson/Buysiness, and Architecture are sending nobody to med school. And precious few of Cornell's several hundred CS/Engineeting grads each year are going to med school either. Only Arts & Sciences (under 50% of each Cornell class) will have kids going to med school after graduation.

+1 . Show me the per capita for med school of Cornell A&S. I'm confident it compares very favorably to other Ivies.

[Anonymous]

People may compare Cornell to Emory, Vanderbilt, Wash U, etc. but at the end of the day Cornell has way better name recognition than any of these schools. And it is also has a strong global brand. An ivy is an ivy I guess

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People may compare Cornell to Emory, Vanderbilt, Wash U, etc. but at the end of the day Cornell has way better name recognition than any of these schools. And it is also has a strong global brand. An ivy is an ivy I guess

True, the perception is a lie, and the outcomes tell the true story. Eventually those 3 will pass in name brand if this continues. 2 have already passed Cornell in ranking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People may compare Cornell to Emory, Vanderbilt, Wash U, etc. but at the end of the day Cornell has way better name recognition than any of these schools. And it is also has a strong global brand. An ivy is an ivy I guess

True, the perception is a lie, and the outcomes tell the true story. Eventually those 3 will pass in name brand if this continues. 2 have already passed Cornell in ranking.

But anyone looking to go to college now will be middle aged at the earliest if and when that actually happens. Cornell is a global brand in the way the three others are still trying to be. Especially in East Asia and India, the Ivy connection is more important than it should be. Vandy has significantly more name recognition than the other two. I know an Emory faculty member who doesn't even put it at the level of Cornell, at least not reputation wise. I don't get the impression Emory sees itself as a true peer of Vandy. It wants to be in that Vandy and Duke discussion though.

[Anonymous]

Its funny how these things change over time. I can remember in the 1980s when Penn was the "bottom Ivy" and everyone I knew would rank Cornell higher than Brown and equal or better than Dartmouth. Cornell was ranked #8 in the first US News ranking in 1983.

No. Cornell is an excellent university with a number of world class programs. But among the Ivy League schools, back in the 1980s it was considered, with Penn, to be the least competitive of a very competitive bunch. Admissions to Cornell was a little less competitive; Cornell had a (not great) reputation for being both a competitive academic grind school and for having people with chips on their shoulders (about not getting into other Ivies); and Ithaca (a great town) had a poor reputation. Back then, after HYP, Brown, Dartmouth and Columbia were the middle Ivies (although getting into Columbia was a lot easier), and Penn (notwithstanding Wharton undergrad) and Cornell were fine schools that tended to attract students who didn't get into one of the other Ivies. The popularity/perception of Columbia and Penn have obviously climbed since then.

I'm not talking about what the initial USNWR ranking in the 1980s 'found' - at that point the USNWR rankings were mostly seen as an oddity or joke. I'm talking about attitudes among the northeastern families who were the Ivies' main catchment area.

Ironically, my own impression is that the growing overall competitiveness of college admissions since then -- including the rise of other universities whose ratings now rival or exceed Cornell where they didn't previously, like NW or Vandy (or Rice?) -- actually means that despite its slight decline in the overall rankings, Cornell now seems to attract more students who actually want to go there (rather than elsewhere) than it used to. The days of treating any Ivy as a fallback are long gone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People may compare Cornell to Emory, Vanderbilt, Wash U, etc. but at the end of the day Cornell has way better name recognition than any of these schools. And it is also has a strong global brand. An ivy is an ivy I guess

True, the perception is a lie, and the outcomes tell the true story. Eventually those 3 will pass in name brand if this continues. 2 have already passed Cornell in ranking.

But anyone looking to go to college now will be middle aged at the earliest if and when that actually happens. Cornell is a global brand in the way the three others are still trying to be. Especially in East Asia and India, the Ivy connection is more important than it should be. Vandy has significantly more name recognition than the other two. I know an Emory faculty member who doesn't even put it at the level of Cornell, at least not reputation wise. I don't get the impression Emory sees itself as a true peer of Vandy. It wants to be in that Vandy and Duke discussion though.

Your impression is wrong, especially in business.

[Anonymous]

I remember back in the 1970s when the thick Barron’s Guide to Colleges was very influential. It ranked colleges in categories for the difficulty of admissions. Their tiers were Most Competitive, Highly Competitive, Very Competitive, Competitive, Less Competitive, and Non-Competitive. Cornell & Penn were Highly Competitive, as was UVA.

[Anonymous]

I remember back in the 1970s when the thick Barron’s Guide to Colleges was very influential. It ranked colleges in categories for the difficulty of admissions. Their tiers were Most Competitive, Highly Competitive, Very Competitive, Competitive, Less Competitive, and Non-Competitive. Cornell & Penn were Highly Competitive, as was UVA.

In the late 70's and 80's, the Barrons Guide ranked Cornell and Penn -- all the Ivies -- as Most Competitive admissions. Same for of course Stanford and MIT, and Duke, and Rice. And Wesleyan (along with Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore and I think Haverford). UVA was Highly Competitive. Georgetown was Most Competitive, and Middlebury and Hamilton were Highly Competitive. USC was maybe Very Competitive (or Competitive Plus?), as was NYU. Northeastern may have been "Competitive Plus" or just Competitive. Ugh - talk about brain cells I'll never get back.

[Anonymous]

It's because they reject 91.3% of applicants and those people say and type things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HYP no longer makes sense since Yale has not kept up with peers, particularly in STEM. I would put Penn above Yale.

Your views are irrelevant.

Same to you.

But there is a fact, it is much much harder for one to get into Yale than Penn. It does not just statistically stop at one having a lower acceptance rate than the other, students applying to the schools already self filter themselves before any applications are submitted. Students are conscious that they would only apply to HYP when they are at top of the top class in top high schools with top test scores and extraordinary EC, barring some special categories not based on open competition which exist in certain percentage in all elite universities. When somewhat short, they try schools like Penn and Columbia, etc. That's just the way it is with most students and HS counselors' mentality.

[Anonymous]

It's only called a lower Ivy by those who are insecure about their degree from a higher-ranked college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's only called a lower Ivy by those who are insecure about their degree from a higher-ranked college.

Nah, graduates of higher-ranked schools don’t use that phrase to refer to Cornell. It’s unnecessary and redundant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's because they reject 91.3% of applicants and those people say and type things.

I think the ranking of Ivies is only a game for those who went there, or for kids who have a shot at any of them, or people who like to troll all of the former, so this is a small bubble concept.