Court: TJ's New Admission Policy Does Not Discriminate

[Anonymous]

It was sheer idiocy to encourage high achieving kids to attend AAP centers and then have the same 1.5% quota for Carson and a bottom-feeder like Poe or Whitman. Even if it wasn’t illegal it was sure as hell stupid.

[Anonymous]

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This. There were always kids at the "wrong schools" who didn't have the same parental resources or PTA support who could have thrived at TJ but were not getting in.
Also the idea that all potential is determined by the time a kid is 13 or 14 just seems short sighted and really cruel when it's talked about on these boards. "Oh my God some child got in who was only in Algebra 2 Honors in 8th grade, they're dumbing down the school and all is lost." "Those kids can't handle the pressure and will drop out" "What if the school drops to second best in the country because of them?"
I think the idea that TJ could help a passionate kid who didn't have the same opportunities reach their full potential is much more impressive than missing out on a kid who will have all the opportunities or support at Mclean or Langley.
No policy will make everyone happy or is perfect, but honestly I think these new changes could actually make TJ useful to the County beyond a press release saying they are the number one school in the country or a parent being able to brag at a cocktail party.
Signed a TJ grad from seemingly a saner time

You are talking about kids at a weaker school vs a stronger school like McLean. I am saying they are not doing a good job of selecting students within the same school. It's not even about algebra 2 vs algebra 1, but students who would be on the TJ math team are getting rejected.

be happy they have math team. My kids go to an FCPS middle school that doesn't have math counts, science bowl, quiz bowl, or any other academic competition clubs. The closest we have is math club which is focused on helping kids who are behind. Why should kids be punished because FCPS offers more to some schools than other?

Sounds like something the PTA should probably pursue with the staff there.

Hopefully, you understand that PTAs at the poorest middle schools have no money. Parents at such schools have work schedules that aren’t conducive to volunteering & aren’t culturally tuned into that.

So you want the county to provide for extra curriculars that are generally funded by parents at other schools?

We want the county to disregard benefits provided by public schools not available at all public schools for competitive admissions purposes

I think you want to disassociate parental and familial influence from a student's performance. As indicated, many of these school opportunities are parental and community based, as are prep courses, and enrichment.

But they aren’t offered at every middle school. That’s not kids’ faults. Admissions needs to take that into account.

The non-stop effort to build a better mousetrap is exhausting. Get rid of TJ, which only serves about 4% of FCPS high school students, and focus on all the kids. The TJ AAG and related groups fetishize TJ and ignore the vast majority of students and schools.

There's only one group who is presently trying to build a better mousetrap, and it's the Coalition 4 TJ. If they were to stand down and recognize the futility of their efforts - especially given that School Board elections are coming in the near future - we wouldn't be having these conversations.

GTFOH. In 2020 when Brabrand and the School Board should have been most focused on learning loss, an IT department that was woefully inept, and remediation plans for when kids returned to school, they spent months dithering over different ways to change TJ admissions, none of which would ever matter to the vast majority of FCPS students.

They had to do something about the process because the pandemic made it impossible to run the same process as previously.

They had to change it because of rampant test buying and outright cheating.

Because the cheating was widespread, they had no choice but to rework the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It was sheer idiocy to encourage high achieving kids to attend AAP centers and then have the same 1.5% quota for Carson and a bottom-feeder like Poe or Whitman. Even if it wasn’t illegal it was sure as hell stupid.

If they have a qualified pool then it would be 1.5% of that pool. I don’t think it would really make a meaningful difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It was sheer idiocy to encourage high achieving kids to attend AAP centers and then have the same 1.5% quota for Carson and a bottom-feeder like Poe or Whitman. Even if it wasn’t illegal it was sure as hell stupid.

Stupid school board wanting to spread access to a public resource across the whole county. They should know that TJ is supposed to be reserved for certain students not kids at Whitman

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It was sheer idiocy to encourage high achieving kids to attend AAP centers and then have the same 1.5% quota for Carson and a bottom-feeder like Poe or Whitman. Even if it wasn’t illegal it was sure as hell stupid.

FCPS plans to make every MS a center MS or, in other words, get rid of center MS and have every MS provide LIV services. While I am a fan of the center school model for ES (and others are not), I don't see any reason to have MS center schools when every MS can have AAP classes alongside honors classes and regular classes. Once every MS has AAP classes, then having a 1.5% quota for every MS will make mathematical sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It was sheer idiocy to encourage high achieving kids to attend AAP centers and then have the same 1.5% quota for Carson and a bottom-feeder like Poe or Whitman. Even if it wasn’t illegal it was sure as hell stupid.

Are schools encouraging kids to attend centers in ES or MS? We talked to DS Teachers about the pros and cons of staying at his base school and they were pretty interested in his staying at the base school. The Center school didn't seem to care one way or the other.

Parents are the ones sold on the idea of Centers being so much better because of the classes or the peer group or whatever it is they think makes the Center special.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It was sheer idiocy to encourage high achieving kids to attend AAP centers and then have the same 1.5% quota for Carson and a bottom-feeder like Poe or Whitman. Even if it wasn’t illegal it was sure as hell stupid.

Why? The kids at Carson, Rocky Run, and Longfellow had plenty of other spaces to compete for after the quotas were filled and ended up doing very well. They're still getting 30-50 kids into TJ every year while the Whitmans of the world are getting 5. Is that really so awful in exchange for every student in the catchment area feeling like they have a shot at TJ?

If your answer is yes, you're engaging in a behavior called "resource hoarding".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was sheer idiocy to encourage high achieving kids to attend AAP centers and then have the same 1.5% quota for Carson and a bottom-feeder like Poe or Whitman. Even if it wasn’t illegal it was sure as hell stupid.

Why? The kids at Carson, Rocky Run, and Longfellow had plenty of other spaces to compete for after the quotas were filled and ended up doing very well. They're still getting 30-50 kids into TJ every year while the Whitmans of the world are getting 5. Is that really so awful in exchange for every student in the catchment area feeling like they have a shot at TJ?

If your answer is yes, you're engaging in a behavior called "resource hoarding".

I think the issue is that the quotas don't consider that kids zoned for Whitmans and Stones are in centers at other schools. Its an oddly obvious error on the part of the new admission standard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was sheer idiocy to encourage high achieving kids to attend AAP centers and then have the same 1.5% quota for Carson and a bottom-feeder like Poe or Whitman. Even if it wasn’t illegal it was sure as hell stupid.

Why? The kids at Carson, Rocky Run, and Longfellow had plenty of other spaces to compete for after the quotas were filled and ended up doing very well. They're still getting 30-50 kids into TJ every year while the Whitmans of the world are getting 5. Is that really so awful in exchange for every student in the catchment area feeling like they have a shot at TJ?

If your answer is yes, you're engaging in a behavior called "resource hoarding".

I think the issue is that the quotas don't consider that kids zoned for Whitmans and Stones are in centers at other schools. Its an oddly obvious error on the part of the new admission standard.

It's not an error at all. The point is that students who, for whatever reason, are not at the AAP centers should still have a chance to go to TJ.

Parents assume that any kid who is bright at all is automatically center-bound, and that's simply not the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was sheer idiocy to encourage high achieving kids to attend AAP centers and then have the same 1.5% quota for Carson and a bottom-feeder like Poe or Whitman. Even if it wasn’t illegal it was sure as hell stupid.

Why? The kids at Carson, Rocky Run, and Longfellow had plenty of other spaces to compete for after the quotas were filled and ended up doing very well. They're still getting 30-50 kids into TJ every year while the Whitmans of the world are getting 5. Is that really so awful in exchange for every student in the catchment area feeling like they have a shot at TJ?

If your answer is yes, you're engaging in a behavior called "resource hoarding".

I think the issue is that the quotas don't consider that kids zoned for Whitmans and Stones are in centers at other schools. Its an oddly obvious error on the part of the new admission standard.

It's not an error at all. The point is that students who, for whatever reason, are not at the AAP centers should still have a chance to go to TJ.

Parents assume that any kid who is bright at all is automatically center-bound, and that's simply not the case.

Right and the number of kids that go to the centers should be deducted in the quota calculation for the non-center MS. AAP kids deserve the same chance that non-AAP kids have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was sheer idiocy to encourage high achieving kids to attend AAP centers and then have the same 1.5% quota for Carson and a bottom-feeder like Poe or Whitman. Even if it wasn’t illegal it was sure as hell stupid.

Why? The kids at Carson, Rocky Run, and Longfellow had plenty of other spaces to compete for after the quotas were filled and ended up doing very well. They're still getting 30-50 kids into TJ every year while the Whitmans of the world are getting 5. Is that really so awful in exchange for every student in the catchment area feeling like they have a shot at TJ?

If your answer is yes, you're engaging in a behavior called "resource hoarding".

I think the issue is that the quotas don't consider that kids zoned for Whitmans and Stones are in centers at other schools. Its an oddly obvious error on the part of the new admission standard.

It's not an error at all. The point is that students who, for whatever reason, are not at the AAP centers should still have a chance to go to TJ.

Parents assume that any kid who is bright at all is automatically center-bound, and that's simply not the case.

Right and the number of kids that go to the centers should be deducted in the quota calculation for the non-center MS. AAP kids deserve the same chance that non-AAP kids have.

None of the schools that whitman zoned aap kids go to send kids in any significant numbers to TJ

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was sheer idiocy to encourage high achieving kids to attend AAP centers and then have the same 1.5% quota for Carson and a bottom-feeder like Poe or Whitman. Even if it wasn’t illegal it was sure as hell stupid.

Why? The kids at Carson, Rocky Run, and Longfellow had plenty of other spaces to compete for after the quotas were filled and ended up doing very well. They're still getting 30-50 kids into TJ every year while the Whitmans of the world are getting 5. Is that really so awful in exchange for every student in the catchment area feeling like they have a shot at TJ?

If your answer is yes, you're engaging in a behavior called "resource hoarding".

I think the issue is that the quotas don't consider that kids zoned for Whitmans and Stones are in centers at other schools. Its an oddly obvious error on the part of the new admission standard.

It's not an error at all. The point is that students who, for whatever reason, are not at the AAP centers should still have a chance to go to TJ.

Parents assume that any kid who is bright at all is automatically center-bound, and that's simply not the case.

Right and the number of kids that go to the centers should be deducted in the quota calculation for the non-center MS. AAP kids deserve the same chance that non-AAP kids have.

... that doesn't make any sense. Why would you do that if the point is to ensure that the kids at each school have a chance to go to TJ?

And AAP kids absolutely do have the same chance that non-AAP kids have. Indeed, probably a greater one because they receive the vast majority of the spots that are unallocated. I'd argue that the kids who get the worst of it are probably the non-AAP kids who go to the center schools. Not everyone at Carson or Longfellow are center kids, but they have to compete with the center kids for the allocated spaces at those schools. Where is your concern for those kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was sheer idiocy to encourage high achieving kids to attend AAP centers and then have the same 1.5% quota for Carson and a bottom-feeder like Poe or Whitman. Even if it wasn’t illegal it was sure as hell stupid.

Why? The kids at Carson, Rocky Run, and Longfellow had plenty of other spaces to compete for after the quotas were filled and ended up doing very well. They're still getting 30-50 kids into TJ every year while the Whitmans of the world are getting 5. Is that really so awful in exchange for every student in the catchment area feeling like they have a shot at TJ?

If your answer is yes, you're engaging in a behavior called "resource hoarding".

I think the issue is that the quotas don't consider that kids zoned for Whitmans and Stones are in centers at other schools. Its an oddly obvious error on the part of the new admission standard.

It's not an error at all. The point is that students who, for whatever reason, are not at the AAP centers should still have a chance to go to TJ.

Parents assume that any kid who is bright at all is automatically center-bound, and that's simply not the case.

Right and the number of kids that go to the centers should be deducted in the quota calculation for the non-center MS. AAP kids deserve the same chance that non-AAP kids have.

... that doesn't make any sense. Why would you do that if the point is to ensure that the kids at each school have a chance to go to TJ?

And AAP kids absolutely do have the same chance that non-AAP kids have. Indeed, probably a greater one because they receive the vast majority of the spots that are unallocated. I'd argue that the kids who get the worst of it are probably the non-AAP kids who go to the center schools. Not everyone at Carson or Longfellow are center kids, but they have to compete with the center kids for the allocated spaces at those schools. Where is your concern for those kids?

If a kid is zoned for Whitman but goes to Sandburg, his/her acceptance, assuming its quota based selection and not at-large, should be counted against the 1.5% quota of Whitman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was sheer idiocy to encourage high achieving kids to attend AAP centers and then have the same 1.5% quota for Carson and a bottom-feeder like Poe or Whitman. Even if it wasn’t illegal it was sure as hell stupid.

FCPS plans to make every MS a center MS or, in other words, get rid of center MS and have every MS provide LIV services. While I am a fan of the center school model for ES (and others are not), I don't see any reason to have MS center schools when every MS can have AAP classes alongside honors classes and regular classes. Once every MS has AAP classes, then having a 1.5% quota for every MS will make mathematical sense.

It doesn’t make sense before then and many of the School Board members didn’t even know that’s what they were approving. Sheer incompetence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was sheer idiocy to encourage high achieving kids to attend AAP centers and then have the same 1.5% quota for Carson and a bottom-feeder like Poe or Whitman. Even if it wasn’t illegal it was sure as hell stupid.

Why? The kids at Carson, Rocky Run, and Longfellow had plenty of other spaces to compete for after the quotas were filled and ended up doing very well. They're still getting 30-50 kids into TJ every year while the Whitmans of the world are getting 5. Is that really so awful in exchange for every student in the catchment area feeling like they have a shot at TJ?

If your answer is yes, you're engaging in a behavior called "resource hoarding".

I think the issue is that the quotas don't consider that kids zoned for Whitmans and Stones are in centers at other schools. Its an oddly obvious error on the part of the new admission standard.

It's not an error at all. The point is that students who, for whatever reason, are not at the AAP centers should still have a chance to go to TJ.

Parents assume that any kid who is bright at all is automatically center-bound, and that's simply not the case.

Right and the number of kids that go to the centers should be deducted in the quota calculation for the non-center MS. AAP kids deserve the same chance that non-AAP kids have.

... that doesn't make any sense. Why would you do that if the point is to ensure that the kids at each school have a chance to go to TJ?

And AAP kids absolutely do have the same chance that non-AAP kids have. Indeed, probably a greater one because they receive the vast majority of the spots that are unallocated. I'd argue that the kids who get the worst of it are probably the non-AAP kids who go to the center schools. Not everyone at Carson or Longfellow are center kids, but they have to compete with the center kids for the allocated spaces at those schools. Where is your concern for those kids?

If a kid is zoned for Whitman but goes to Sandburg, his/her acceptance, assuming its quota based selection and not at-large, should be counted against the 1.5% quota of Whitman.

That’s not how it works now.