Elrich property tax increase

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Only govt department/agency not to have an Inspector General, and it takes up more than half of the county budget!

What would need to happen to create an Inspector General for MCPS? Majority of the council would need to approve it? How could a council member be opposed to an Inspector General?

I plan to call my council members’ offices tomorrow about this.

Thank you!

PP here. It actually looks like the Montgomery County Inspector General has jurisdiction over MCPS, among others.

Perhaps MCPS is large enough to merit its own independent IG, but it is technically covered. Still, I’m guessing the Montgomery County IG is understaffed and stretched thin.

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/oig/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any way Joe citizen can file a complaint/petition against this? He's going through a big loophole, circumventing the will of the voters' 2020 Election Question A, and disingenuous about it as there are bunch of other things increasing as well. There was no thought given to reallocating other funds to schools and public safety and keeping overall budget the same. The public hearings feel like they are checking off a box, they are so condescending.

Wonder if he can really get away with this.

There is no loophole. He’s lying. The state law does not apply to our charter.

He proposed his own version of a charter amendment on property taxes in 2020, 8 years after this state law was passed. If the state law negates the current charter, it would have also negated the charter amendment that Elrich proposed. Never once did he mention this possibility. Never once did his chief administrative officer, who sponsored the state law and testified on Elrich’s proposed charter amendment, mention this possibility. So Elrich and Madaleno were either lying then or they’re lying now. Don’t let them get away with it. Tell your council members that we expect a unanimous vote to raise taxes.

Can you explain this is dummy terms to non-lawyers. What was Question A in 2020? What is this loophole people are referring to they is allowing this proposed tax hike?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any way Joe citizen can file a complaint/petition against this? He's going through a big loophole, circumventing the will of the voters' 2020 Election Question A, and disingenuous about it as there are bunch of other things increasing as well. There was no thought given to reallocating other funds to schools and public safety and keeping overall budget the same. The public hearings feel like they are checking off a box, they are so condescending.

Wonder if he can really get away with this.

There is no loophole. He’s lying. The state law does not apply to our charter.

He proposed his own version of a charter amendment on property taxes in 2020, 8 years after this state law was passed. If the state law negates the current charter, it would have also negated the charter amendment that Elrich proposed. Never once did he mention this possibility. Never once did his chief administrative officer, who sponsored the state law and testified on Elrich’s proposed charter amendment, mention this possibility. So Elrich and Madaleno were either lying then or they’re lying now. Don’t let them get away with it. Tell your council members that we expect a unanimous vote to raise taxes.

Can you explain this is dummy terms to non-lawyers. What was Question A in 2020? What is this loophole people are referring to they is allowing this proposed tax hike?

Question A (which passed) abolished a complicated county charter property tax cap and instead requires property tax increases to have the unanimous support of the County Council.

Question B (which was put on the ballot by Robin Ficker, and which did not pass) would have banned property tax increases higher than the rate of inflation, no matter what.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any way Joe citizen can file a complaint/petition against this? He's going through a big loophole, circumventing the will of the voters' 2020 Election Question A, and disingenuous about it as there are bunch of other things increasing as well. There was no thought given to reallocating other funds to schools and public safety and keeping overall budget the same. The public hearings feel like they are checking off a box, they are so condescending.

Wonder if he can really get away with this.

There is no loophole. He’s lying. The state law does not apply to our charter.

He proposed his own version of a charter amendment on property taxes in 2020, 8 years after this state law was passed. If the state law negates the current charter, it would have also negated the charter amendment that Elrich proposed. Never once did he mention this possibility. Never once did his chief administrative officer, who sponsored the state law and testified on Elrich’s proposed charter amendment, mention this possibility. So Elrich and Madaleno were either lying then or they’re lying now. Don’t let them get away with it. Tell your council members that we expect a unanimous vote to raise taxes.

Can you explain this is dummy terms to non-lawyers. What was Question A in 2020? What is this loophole people are referring to they is allowing this proposed tax hike?

Question A (which passed) abolished a complicated county charter property tax cap and instead requires property tax increases to have the unanimous support of the County Council.

Question B (which was put on the ballot by Robin Ficker, and which did not pass) would have banned property tax increases higher than the rate of inflation, no matter what.

So where's the loophole?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any way Joe citizen can file a complaint/petition against this? He's going through a big loophole, circumventing the will of the voters' 2020 Election Question A, and disingenuous about it as there are bunch of other things increasing as well. There was no thought given to reallocating other funds to schools and public safety and keeping overall budget the same. The public hearings feel like they are checking off a box, they are so condescending.

Wonder if he can really get away with this.

There is no loophole. He’s lying. The state law does not apply to our charter.

He proposed his own version of a charter amendment on property taxes in 2020, 8 years after this state law was passed. If the state law negates the current charter, it would have also negated the charter amendment that Elrich proposed. Never once did he mention this possibility. Never once did his chief administrative officer, who sponsored the state law and testified on Elrich’s proposed charter amendment, mention this possibility. So Elrich and Madaleno were either lying then or they’re lying now. Don’t let them get away with it. Tell your council members that we expect a unanimous vote to raise taxes.

Can you explain this is dummy terms to non-lawyers. What was Question A in 2020? What is this loophole people are referring to they is allowing this proposed tax hike?

Question A (which passed) abolished a complicated county charter property tax cap and instead requires property tax increases to have the unanimous support of the County Council.

Question B (which was put on the ballot by Robin Ficker, and which did not pass) would have banned property tax increases higher than the rate of inflation, no matter what.

So where's the loophole?

There is none. The state law only applies to limits like those in Question B, which this county’s voters have always rejected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any way Joe citizen can file a complaint/petition against this? He's going through a big loophole, circumventing the will of the voters' 2020 Election Question A, and disingenuous about it as there are bunch of other things increasing as well. There was no thought given to reallocating other funds to schools and public safety and keeping overall budget the same. The public hearings feel like they are checking off a box, they are so condescending.

Wonder if he can really get away with this.

There is no loophole. He’s lying. The state law does not apply to our charter.

He proposed his own version of a charter amendment on property taxes in 2020, 8 years after this state law was passed. If the state law negates the current charter, it would have also negated the charter amendment that Elrich proposed. Never once did he mention this possibility. Never once did his chief administrative officer, who sponsored the state law and testified on Elrich’s proposed charter amendment, mention this possibility. So Elrich and Madaleno were either lying then or they’re lying now. Don’t let them get away with it. Tell your council members that we expect a unanimous vote to raise taxes.

Can you explain this is dummy terms to non-lawyers. What was Question A in 2020? What is this loophole people are referring to they is allowing this proposed tax hike?

Question A (which passed) abolished a complicated county charter property tax cap and instead requires property tax increases to have the unanimous support of the County Council.

Question B (which was put on the ballot by Robin Ficker, and which did not pass) would have banned property tax increases higher than the rate of inflation, no matter what.

So where's the loophole?

This blog post discusses the "loophole"
https://montgomeryperspective.com/2023/03/20/the-hand-of-the-king/


There is none. The state law only applies to limits like those in Question B, which this county’s voters have always rejected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any way Joe citizen can file a complaint/petition against this? He's going through a big loophole, circumventing the will of the voters' 2020 Election Question A, and disingenuous about it as there are bunch of other things increasing as well. There was no thought given to reallocating other funds to schools and public safety and keeping overall budget the same. The public hearings feel like they are checking off a box, they are so condescending.

Wonder if he can really get away with this.

There is no loophole. He’s lying. The state law does not apply to our charter.

He proposed his own version of a charter amendment on property taxes in 2020, 8 years after this state law was passed. If the state law negates the current charter, it would have also negated the charter amendment that Elrich proposed. Never once did he mention this possibility. Never once did his chief administrative officer, who sponsored the state law and testified on Elrich’s proposed charter amendment, mention this possibility. So Elrich and Madaleno were either lying then or they’re lying now. Don’t let them get away with it. Tell your council members that we expect a unanimous vote to raise taxes.

Can you explain this is dummy terms to non-lawyers. What was Question A in 2020? What is this loophole people are referring to they is allowing this proposed tax hike?

Question A (which passed) abolished a complicated county charter property tax cap and instead requires property tax increases to have the unanimous support of the County Council.

Question B (which was put on the ballot by Robin Ficker, and which did not pass) would have banned property tax increases higher than the rate of inflation, no matter what.

So where's the loophole?

There is none. The state law only applies to limits like those in Question B, which this county’s voters have always rejected.

Argh, pasted in the wrong nested quotes section. Reposted:
This blog post discusses the "loophole"
https://montgomeryperspective.com/2023/03/20/the-hand-of-the-king/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any way Joe citizen can file a complaint/petition against this? He's going through a big loophole, circumventing the will of the voters' 2020 Election Question A, and disingenuous about it as there are bunch of other things increasing as well. There was no thought given to reallocating other funds to schools and public safety and keeping overall budget the same. The public hearings feel like they are checking off a box, they are so condescending.

Wonder if he can really get away with this.

There is no loophole. He’s lying. The state law does not apply to our charter.

He proposed his own version of a charter amendment on property taxes in 2020, 8 years after this state law was passed. If the state law negates the current charter, it would have also negated the charter amendment that Elrich proposed. Never once did he mention this possibility. Never once did his chief administrative officer, who sponsored the state law and testified on Elrich’s proposed charter amendment, mention this possibility. So Elrich and Madaleno were either lying then or they’re lying now. Don’t let them get away with it. Tell your council members that we expect a unanimous vote to raise taxes.

Can you explain this is dummy terms to non-lawyers. What was Question A in 2020? What is this loophole people are referring to they is allowing this proposed tax hike?

Question A (which passed) abolished a complicated county charter property tax cap and instead requires property tax increases to have the unanimous support of the County Council.

Question B (which was put on the ballot by Robin Ficker, and which did not pass) would have banned property tax increases higher than the rate of inflation, no matter what.

So where's the loophole?

There is none. The state law only applies to limits like those in Question B, which this county’s voters have always rejected.

Argh, pasted in the wrong nested quotes section. Reposted:
This blog post discusses the "loophole"
https://montgomeryperspective.com/2023/03/20/the-hand-of-the-king/

The charter has never limited rate or revenue increases. They increased taxes under the old provision too. What Elrich is proposing isn’t a loophole. It’s just illegal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You all just don't get it. Why do we lose out on big business HQ to VA all the time? Part of it is access to Dulles, which we can't do anything about. However, another big part of it is big companies want to move to where their educated employees children can go to excellent schools. MCPS has been backsliding for a little over a decade.

I'm not crazy enough to suggest money is the solution to all the MCPS problems. But SOMETHING must be done

Does MCPS spend substantially less per student that FCPS or ACPS? I bet not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all just don't get it. Why do we lose out on big business HQ to VA all the time? Part of it is access to Dulles, which we can't do anything about. However, another big part of it is big companies want to move to where their educated employees children can go to excellent schools. MCPS has been backsliding for a little over a decade.

I'm not crazy enough to suggest money is the solution to all the MCPS problems. But SOMETHING must be done

Does MCPS spend substantially less per student that FCPS or ACPS? I bet not.

Baltimore spends a ton per pupil, yet look at the test results. Money is not the solution to everything. Better teaching, better parenting, better discipline, period. Why is it that Japanese students can mop the floor with American students and they spend a lot less per head?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all just don't get it. Why do we lose out on big business HQ to VA all the time? Part of it is access to Dulles, which we can't do anything about. However, another big part of it is big companies want to move to where their educated employees children can go to excellent schools. MCPS has been backsliding for a little over a decade.

I'm not crazy enough to suggest money is the solution to all the MCPS problems. But SOMETHING must be done

Does MCPS spend substantially less per student that FCPS or ACPS? I bet not.

Baltimore spends a ton per pupil, yet look at the test results. Money is not the solution to everything. Better teaching, better parenting, better discipline, period. Why is it that Japanese students can mop the floor with American students and they spend a lot less per head?

This, while recognizing many parents cannot parent. So what will the schools do in the meantime to ensure these students don't disrupt school, or worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all just don't get it. Why do we lose out on big business HQ to VA all the time? Part of it is access to Dulles, which we can't do anything about. However, another big part of it is big companies want to move to where their educated employees children can go to excellent schools. MCPS has been backsliding for a little over a decade.

I'm not crazy enough to suggest money is the solution to all the MCPS problems. But SOMETHING must be done

Does MCPS spend substantially less per student that FCPS or ACPS? I bet not.

Baltimore spends a ton per pupil, yet look at the test results. Money is not the solution to everything. Better teaching, better parenting, better discipline, period. Why is it that Japanese students can mop the floor with American students and they spend a lot less per head?

I agree, although Baltimore has the excuse of a very poor student population. The populations in MCPS and FCPS are pretty similar.

According to USNews:
MCPS: $16,707 per student. https://www.usnews.com/education/k12/maryland/districts/montgomery-county-public-schools-104047
FCPS: $16,367 per student. https://www.usnews.com/education/k12/virginia/districts/fairfax-co-pblc-schs-109481

[Anonymous]

From: https://www.mabe.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Issue-Papers-2020-Session-local-government-only.pdf

Counties may exceed the charter limitations on local property taxes for the purpose of funding the approved budget of the local boards of education. If a local property tax rate is set
above the charter limit, the county governing body may not reduce funding provided to the local board of education from any other local source and must appropriate to the local board of education all of the revenues generated from any increase beyond the existing charter limit. This authority was adopted at the 2012 regular session to ensure that counties have the fiscal ability to meet new education Maintenance of Effort requirements.

Which I assume paraphrases Md. Education Code Ann. § 5-104(d)(1): Notwithstanding any provision of a county charter that places a limit on that county’s property tax rate or revenues and subject to paragraph (2) of this subsection, a county governing body may set a property tax rate that is higher than the rate authorized under the county’s charter or collect more property tax revenues than the revenues authorized under the county’s charter for the sole purpose of funding the approved budget of the county [school] board.

Rich Madaleno really screwed us over in 2012.

It seems like the county council will be complicit with Elrich's highway robbery. In 2020, they quickly sent out a statement shooting down Elrich's 3.18 cent increase proposal. Crickets this time. This time, Evan Glass even said, "We must balance the needs of today with those of tomorrow, which include supporting our schools, our teachers, our first responders, our healthcare professionals and other frontline workers" which sounds to me that he supports the increase.

One of Elrich's defenses for his budget proposal is that DC will pay their teachers $75,000/year. That's a strawman argument because MCPS does not compete with DCPS. MCPS competes with FCPS and HCPS and VA pays their teachers far less than MD. DC has a higher cost of living than suburban MD, so of course they need to pay more. And like other posters have mentioned, DC and Baltimore paying more per student have not yielded desired results. Everyone needs to call their councilmember and ask them to find an alternative to fund MCPS. Keep the other parts of the budget the same and allocate any organic increases in revenues to MCPS and public safety only.

[Anonymous]

Agree with the Madaleno comment. 100%.

[Anonymous]

Rich Madaleno sold out his constituents in pursuit of his own career.