Why are people more sympathetic to Lindsay Clancy than Andrea Yates? (Child death mentioned)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Andrea Yates became a more sympathetic figure over time, as more details came out about her husband and there was increased public awareness about PPP. I don't recall any outrage whatsoever about the verdict at her second trial. It's probably because of the groundwork her case laid that Clancy is being treated more sympathetically from the off.

I can be both horrified by what happened to the Yates children and sympathetic to Andrea Yates. She was completely out of her mind. And to be restored to her mind, she then had to come to grips with what she'd done while out of it, which sounds like an unspeakable hell. Apparently she refuses to be reviewed for release from the mental hospital every year even though she might be eligible at this point.

What a saint. 🙄🙄

I have no sympathy for these murderers. I know plenty of less-affluent women with the same (if not more) mental struggles, and they managed to not kill their children.

I also doubt you all would give them such a pass anyway.

I’ll save my sympathy for the dead children and the less-sympathetic mothers out there.

You have no idea what mental struggles Clancy was facing. Your comment about “less-affluent” women having greater mental stress than Clancy suggests you think that affluent women can’t / don’t have legitimate mental illness. Mental illness doesn’t discriminate, but dismissible attitudes like yours may make it harder for a very sick affluent woman to be taken seriously.

They have the resources that less affluent (and less sympathetic) women don’t have. Yet, they get all the sympathy.

Please.

Show me a less-affluent PPD-suffering Black women who got the same level of forgiveness and sympathy that these white women get………..

I completely agree that “we” (society) have unfairly treated Black mothers with less understanding and sympathy, both in general and certainly with mental illness. If Clancy were Black, she would have my sympathy - I had PPP and I feel for any mother going through that. But I understand that a Black mother may not garner as much sympathy from society, which is terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reaction shouldn't be blaming. It should be, how horrific.

👆🏽👆🏽👆🏽👆🏽 This sentiment shall only be used for affluent white women.

Black women get PPD too, you know.

I’m quite aware. I’m also aware that Black women do not get the benefit of compassion and sympathy and forgiveness in similar situations.

I mean, I'm trying to even think of a comparable case. I don't think I would respond any differently.

https://chicagodefender.com/postpartum-depression-and-the-stigma-of-the-strong-black-woman/

^^Theres more, but here’s a snippet. Women like Aleah Newell get my sympathy.

Last week Aleah Newell, age 20, was charged with killing her 2-year-old son Johntavious Newell, and her 7-month-old son Ameer Newell. In addition to those charges, Newell also was charged with the attempted murder of her 70-year-old grandfather, Cordell Walker. Newell stabbed her infant son and placed him in a bathtub of scalding water. She proceeded to cut the screen of the 11th-floor window open and threw her 2-year-old toddler out of the window. Newell jumped out afterward, with hopes of committing suicide. However, she survived the fall. Tragically, her toddler did not. A week before these heinous acts, Newell asked for help. Women at the Shield of Hope shelter said Newell begged the staff to take her children because she could not care for them on her own. In response to Newell’s pleas, the shelter told her she had to “do it on her own.” Newell also asked her mother to care for her children so that she could get her life together. Newell’s mother said that she tried to attempt suicide during the summer of 2019, and took medication for an unspecified mood disorder. Newell also had a brother who committed suicide in 2017.

African-American women like Newell, are at higher risk for postpartum depression; however, they are less likely to get the help that they need. A few reasons are, minority women are economically at a disadvantage, and there is implicit bias in postpartum care for Black women by a few medical providers and limited access to quality medical care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Andrea Yates became a more sympathetic figure over time, as more details came out about her husband and there was increased public awareness about PPP. I don't recall any outrage whatsoever about the verdict at her second trial. It's probably because of the groundwork her case laid that Clancy is being treated more sympathetically from the off.

I can be both horrified by what happened to the Yates children and sympathetic to Andrea Yates. She was completely out of her mind. And to be restored to her mind, she then had to come to grips with what she'd done while out of it, which sounds like an unspeakable hell. Apparently she refuses to be reviewed for release from the mental hospital every year even though she might be eligible at this point.

What a saint. 🙄🙄

I have no sympathy for these murderers. I know plenty of less-affluent women with the same (if not more) mental struggles, and they managed to not kill their children.

I also doubt you all would give them such a pass anyway.

I’ll save my sympathy for the dead children and the less-sympathetic mothers out there.

You have no idea what mental struggles Clancy was facing. Your comment about “less-affluent” women having greater mental stress than Clancy suggests you think that affluent women can’t / don’t have legitimate mental illness. Mental illness doesn’t discriminate, but dismissible attitudes like yours may make it harder for a very sick affluent woman to be taken seriously.

They have the resources that less affluent (and less sympathetic) women don’t have. Yet, they get all the sympathy.

Please.

Show me a less-affluent PPD-suffering Black women who got the same level of forgiveness and sympathy that these white women get………..

I completely agree that “we” (society) have unfairly treated Black mothers with less understanding and sympathy, both in general and certainly with mental illness. If Clancy were Black, she would have my sympathy - I had PPP and I feel for any mother going through that. But I understand that a Black mother may not garner as much sympathy from society, which is terrible.

Thank you for this, PP. Honestly, your understanding means a lot.

[Anonymous]

That's horrific, and I'm really upset a that shelter. But I feel sympathetic to both women!

[Anonymous]

Poverty disadvantages everyone. Poverty tends to mean people are overlooked and unsupported. They don't have the resources to help themselves nd often those around them are dealing with their own issues and also have few resources. They don't have social and professional networks with benefits or people with means to help. They struggle to advocate for themselves as those who are available to advocate to are either hardened, burnt out, struggling themselves or underresourced.

[Anonymous]

You're talking about 20 years ago. Much more is known about PPD and Psychosis now. I think, like Andrea, she will probably end up in a mental hospital for the duration of her life. I don't foresee her facing a lifetime in prison for something she did when she was was severely mentally impaired. She will be in her own prison in her mind forever. That poor woman. I feel like everyone around her failed her. She never should have been left with those kids alone considering how bad they knew she was suffering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reaction shouldn't be blaming. It should be, how horrific.

👆🏽👆🏽👆🏽👆🏽 This sentiment shall only be used for affluent white women.

Black women get PPD too, you know.

I’m quite aware. I’m also aware that Black women do not get the benefit of compassion and sympathy and forgiveness in similar situations.

I mean, I'm trying to even think of a comparable case. I don't think I would respond any differently.

https://chicagodefender.com/postpartum-depression-and-the-stigma-of-the-strong-black-woman/

^^Theres more, but here’s a snippet. Women like Aleah Newell get my sympathy.

Last week Aleah Newell, age 20, was charged with killing her 2-year-old son Johntavious Newell, and her 7-month-old son Ameer Newell. In addition to those charges, Newell also was charged with the attempted murder of her 70-year-old grandfather, Cordell Walker. Newell stabbed her infant son and placed him in a bathtub of scalding water. She proceeded to cut the screen of the 11th-floor window open and threw her 2-year-old toddler out of the window. Newell jumped out afterward, with hopes of committing suicide. However, she survived the fall. Tragically, her toddler did not. A week before these heinous acts, Newell asked for help. Women at the Shield of Hope shelter said Newell begged the staff to take her children because she could not care for them on her own. In response to Newell’s pleas, the shelter told her she had to “do it on her own.” Newell also asked her mother to care for her children so that she could get her life together. Newell’s mother said that she tried to attempt suicide during the summer of 2019, and took medication for an unspecified mood disorder. Newell also had a brother who committed suicide in 2017.

African-American women like Newell, are at higher risk for postpartum depression; however, they are less likely to get the help that they need. A few reasons are, minority women are economically at a disadvantage, and there is implicit bias in postpartum care for Black women by a few medical providers and limited access to quality medical care.

Omg, that is heartbreaking. She begged for help. Not only did being black work against her, but I’m sure being so young and single did too. People probably dismissed her as not wanting to do the hard work of parenting and assumed she wanted to be free to go out with friends because of her age. That’s the only reason I can think of for telling her she had to do it all herself. Even without PPP or PPD, no woman with an infant and a 2 year old should be told she needs to do everything by herself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reaction shouldn't be blaming. It should be, how horrific.

👆🏽👆🏽👆🏽👆🏽 This sentiment shall only be used for affluent white women.

Black women get PPD too, you know.

I’m quite aware. I’m also aware that Black women do not get the benefit of compassion and sympathy and forgiveness in similar situations.

I mean, I'm trying to even think of a comparable case. I don't think I would respond any differently.

No here. But you likely would because your opinion is most likely influenced by media and the media would be less sympathetic towards a black woman in the same scenario. And that's assuming the story even made headlines to Garner sympathy and the mother wasn't just carted off to jail.

For comparison I can think of a black mother from Massachusetts as well who killed her children and the telling of the story was not sympathetic. Nor were the photos used of her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: To those that are judging her horrible actions, we need to remember that she was out of her mind. This is not the act of a well or rational person. It's so sad and so tragic.

Was she? This has not been established in a court of law

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reaction shouldn't be blaming. It should be, how horrific.

👆🏽👆🏽👆🏽👆🏽 This sentiment shall only be used for affluent white women.

Black women get PPD too, you know.

I’m quite aware. I’m also aware that Black women do not get the benefit of compassion and sympathy and forgiveness in similar situations.

I mean, I'm trying to even think of a comparable case. I don't think I would respond any differently.

No here. But you likely would because your opinion is most likely influenced by media and the media would be less sympathetic towards a black woman in the same scenario. And that's assuming the story even made headlines to Garner sympathy and the mother wasn't just carted off to jail.

For comparison I can think of a black mother from Massachusetts as well who killed her children and the telling of the story was not sympathetic. Nor were the photos used of her.

Are you referring to the Latarsha Sanders case in Mass? Different scenarios, not even close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Andrea Yates became a more sympathetic figure over time, as more details came out about her husband and there was increased public awareness about PPP. I don't recall any outrage whatsoever about the verdict at her second trial. It's probably because of the groundwork her case laid that Clancy is being treated more sympathetically from the off.

I can be both horrified by what happened to the Yates children and sympathetic to Andrea Yates. She was completely out of her mind. And to be restored to her mind, she then had to come to grips with what she'd done while out of it, which sounds like an unspeakable hell. Apparently she refuses to be reviewed for release from the mental hospital every year even though she might be eligible at this point.

What a saint. 🙄🙄

I have no sympathy for these murderers. I know plenty of less-affluent women with the same (if not more) mental struggles, and they managed to not kill their children.

I also doubt you all would give them such a pass anyway.

I’ll save my sympathy for the dead children and the less-sympathetic mothers out there.

You have no idea what mental struggles Clancy was facing. Your comment about “less-affluent” women having greater mental stress than Clancy suggests you think that affluent women can’t / don’t have legitimate mental illness. Mental illness doesn’t discriminate, but dismissible attitudes like yours may make it harder for a very sick affluent woman to be taken seriously.

They have the resources that less affluent (and less sympathetic) women don’t have. Yet, they get all the sympathy.

Please.

Show me a less-affluent PPD-suffering Black women who got the same level of forgiveness and sympathy that these white women get………..

It's the same reason the Walsh murder got national headlines and coverage. While black and other poc woman are murdered by their parents every day and we hear nothing about them. When was the last time you heard about a missing and suspected murdered Native woman on CNN or other national/ international news source? How often are they a household name.
It's the same reason people has so much sympathy for Ukraine but barely say two words about aid to similar conflicts that happens in black/ brown countries.

Empathy, sympathy and benefit of doubt the automatic innocence and blameless is afforded to some members of society and not others

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Andrea Yates became a more sympathetic figure over time, as more details came out about her husband and there was increased public awareness about PPP. I don't recall any outrage whatsoever about the verdict at her second trial. It's probably because of the groundwork her case laid that Clancy is being treated more sympathetically from the off.

I can be both horrified by what happened to the Yates children and sympathetic to Andrea Yates. She was completely out of her mind. And to be restored to her mind, she then had to come to grips with what she'd done while out of it, which sounds like an unspeakable hell. Apparently she refuses to be reviewed for release from the mental hospital every year even though she might be eligible at this point.

What a saint. 🙄🙄

I have no sympathy for these murderers. I know plenty of less-affluent women with the same (if not more) mental struggles, and they managed to not kill their children.

I also doubt you all would give them such a pass anyway.

I’ll save my sympathy for the dead children and the less-sympathetic mothers out there.

You have no idea what mental struggles Clancy was facing. Your comment about “less-affluent” women having greater mental stress than Clancy suggests you think that affluent women can’t / don’t have legitimate mental illness. Mental illness doesn’t discriminate, but dismissible attitudes like yours may make it harder for a very sick affluent woman to be taken seriously.

They have the resources that less affluent (and less sympathetic) women don’t have. Yet, they get all the sympathy.

Please.

Show me a less-affluent PPD-suffering Black women who got the same level of forgiveness and sympathy that these white women get………..

Yep. And her black husband raising $600k in 4 days? Yeah right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reaction shouldn't be blaming. It should be, how horrific.

👆🏽👆🏽👆🏽👆🏽 This sentiment shall only be used for affluent white women.

Black women get PPD too, you know.

I’m quite aware. I’m also aware that Black women do not get the benefit of compassion and sympathy and forgiveness in similar situations.

I mean, I'm trying to even think of a comparable case. I don't think I would respond any differently.

No here. But you likely would because your opinion is most likely influenced by media and the media would be less sympathetic towards a black woman in the same scenario. And that's assuming the story even made headlines to Garner sympathy and the mother wasn't just carted off to jail.

For comparison I can think of a black mother from Massachusetts as well who killed her children and the telling of the story was not sympathetic. Nor were the photos used of her.

Are you referring to the Latarsha Sanders case in Mass? Different scenarios, not even close.

Nope. But look how quickly you found a case that you deemed the mother to be unsympathetic.

It's pretty clear she was suffering from significant mental health issues.

But she's not the perfect murderer. She doesn't have the right look or the right background sort of similar to Yates

[Anonymous]

NP. I'm not sure what is meant by sympathetic or not sympathetic. Do you mean public sentiment and a GoFundMe? Or do you mean criminal charges? While there are usually no criminal charges when a parent distractedly kills their child in a hot carseat death or other unusual tragedy, murdering your children in the throes of PPD still leads to criminal charges. Most people think this is proper, whether they have sympathy for the mother or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can see prosecutors arguing that if she had been displaying signs of psychosis, the husband would not have left her alone to get takeout. In a police interview, what would he say? That she seemed like she was out of her mind, but he left her alone with the children, anyway? I guess there will have to be testimony about sudden onset of psychosis or that psychosis can be hidden, or the husband will be made to look bad/neglectful/inattentive/delusional, like Yates' husband (not that he wasn't). For not guilty by reason of insanity, either he saw she was psychotic and left her alone, anyway, or she was not psychotic to the extent that she could not be left alone with the children. Or convincing testimony that this level of psychosis can he hidden.

Or maybe did she encourage him to leave her with the kids?
Or how about was she on medication? Was she compliant with medication?

Did she have access to 24/7. Therapy?

What plans were in place for if she felt like harming herself or the kids?

Any suspicious google searches?

There's a lot of questions that need to be answered.

There's going to be a lot under the microscope. Not just her medical history and care.

Their marriage. Their parenting.