Feel like a fish out of water in Vienna

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:OP: Since you shared that you are "pretty vocal about social injustice" and that you "curse a lot" and that you like to "rock the boat", I think that you should not be calling others "tightly-wound" without including yourself.

Fair enough — I was mostly referring to how tightly wound the people around me seem about their kids’ academic and athletic performance. I am the complete opposite and am very laid back about that. I am not laid back about social injustice, hence why I feel out of place.

If you are so laid-back about academics, why did you specifically move to a strong school pyramid? Why didn't your strong sense of social justice lead you to Baileys Crossroads, down the street, instead?

Not OP, but you sound more than a little defensive here.

I will say OP might like the Lake Barcroft area near Bailey's Crossroads. There are quite a few people there who walk the walk and talk the talk (they send their kids to majority-minority, low GS schools, confident that their kids have enough advantages in life to do fine). And many are very involved in other social justice causes.

I think the PP made a good point. The people I know who are truly devoted to social justice intentionally select more diverse/lower SES school pyramids so their kids don't grow up in a bubble. OP you might look for homes zoned for Falls Church HS. I have a few friends who live in Merrifield and the "wrong side" of Vienna zoned for Falls Church. They are MUCH more down to earth than the typical Vienna people. Around here there is an inverse relationship between school ratings and being nice/not snobby.

OP here. Thanks for the suggestion, will look into Falls Church HS.

Just go to Mantua. It's Woodson HS. Unless you can buy a new or newer build in Vienna. Then maybe I'd consider Vienna.

[Anonymous]

You seem kind of nasty, op if you are making snide comments about travel sports and school performance. It’s like going to a hockey game and saying to the person next to you “f**ck it, I don’t care how anybody plays tonight”, you’re right to have that opinion, but then why did you come?
You kind of come across like the ‘cool moms” I’ve met, the ones who really don’t like anything or anybody. They use their “I’m so different and so real” mindset to just be nasty in what they think is a socially acceptable way to be nasty.

I also wonder if you are a bit too chill about your kids’ schoolwork and behavior, nobody wants their kid to be friends with a kid who’s parent says “f**ck the homework” or “rules are meant to be broken” not when that kid is hanging around your kid. I have both a family member and a good friend (two separate people) who dropped out of high school. Both are married, both doing well in their careers. Both of them have told me “my biggest mistake was dropping out of high school”. You can’t go back and do somethings over again, op, which is why many parents care way more about their kids’ growing up years then you may realize. I wonder if your profession has colored your viewpoint, nobody comes to your office to say “Hey, I’m having the best year of my life”. The parents you don’t seem to like are working very hard to minimize the likelihood of their kids becoming your clients. Does that bother you? I wonder.


I also wonder if you curse nappropriately, and I say this as a mom who told my third grader a joke with the word ass in it a few days ago. You have to know when to curse and when not to, and it almost sounds like you don’t.

Also, if you’re thinking of moving, that comes through to the people you meet. Nobody wants to spend time getting to know you if you won’t be around long, and nobody wants to be around someone who makes snide comments about the area where they live or their kids activities. I can remember as a teenager being asked to join an organization that promotes the rights of people with the disability that I happen to have. I was seriously considering it until the person I was talking to made a snide comment about drums, an instrument that I played and that I loved. Needless to say, I’ve not joined that organization, then or now, and on paper, that makes no sense. If that person had only stopped with “enjoy your drums, if you play on a different night that doesn’t conflict with our meeting, we’d love to have you” I very likely would have joined. That wasn’t what was said, and for the past 30 years, that person’s comments have colored my view of the organization. I frankly don’t care about them. Yes, one person has the ability to make that much of an impact for good or ill. I relate this because you may be harming your social justice causes more then you realize. All the people you interact with will remember is a woman who curses like a sailor, sniffs at the activities they enjoy, doesn’t care much about how her own kids do, and then talk about something that they should care about more. What a deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound obnoxious and full of yourself. A very "not like the other girls" vibe. Gross.

At least we know why she's a single parent.

Yikes. The Vienna moms are living up to their “mean girls” reputation and then some.

OP here. This is what I'm referring to. I could totally imagine someone in my neighborhood saying this to me -- the intolerance for anyone who doesn't fit the "Vienna mold" is intense.

OP. You are a mean girl

Why? She has stated her opinion of the situation without name calling or even put downs.Meanwhile people in here are calling her loser. And yet you call her a mean girl?

It is almost like everyone expects all women to get along with each other even if they are uncomfortable. Do women always have to be “like the other girls?” Are they allowed to be introverts? If a woman doesn’t like to hang in mommy groups she needs to be painted as a “loser”

This is a weird thread and I guess my gen x self is too old to understand this divisive crap.

Op good luck and I hope you find a person or two!

Because she doesn’t like her neighbors, puts down the things other moms talk about as if it’s beneath her, doesn’t seem to want to get involved and get along with any group, and says she curses a lot and likes to rock the boat. I live in Vienna and have friends who live next door to people on the other side of the political aisle and they all get along. I don’t think they would though if they put down things a majority of other parents cared about in the town or cursed a lot or tried to rock the boat all the time. I know they both got pets this past year and enjoy talking about them and their kids. I like it that they are less involved in social justice and more involved in just being a good person, neighbor, and friend. This behavior calling out everyone also wouldn’t fly in Petworth. I have friends in Petworth and they have their own special interests.

But maybe she IS the person talking about dogs over the fence. That is a polite acquaintance or neighbor relationship in person but not a deep friendship. I’m assuming OP wants someone to be real with whom she can curse around and have a deeper bond with. You can be surface politely to anyone: civil talk about dogs and trees etc. those are not lasting bonds which is what I think OP is looking for.

Just because she is writing her true thoughts online doesn’t mean she isn’t surface poliete. She cant break through surface polite and that is the issue for her right now.

OP here. Yes, you get it. I can totally do surface level conversation -- could talk about my dog for hours! It's just that every conversation seems so surface level, and the ones that aren't usually center around kids' achievement/enrichment. It's exhausting. And these are just with the people who haven't automatically alienated me for being a single mom.

You’re expecting deep, opinionated debates at morning drop off? On the soccer field?

You realize that surface level topics is basically just polite conversation right? You have to actually get to know people and work to build friendships that naturally lead to deeper conversations.

Yes, it’s 100% a Virginia thing to make polite conversation. You moved to VA and that’s the culture. When in Rome.. If it doesn’t vibe with you then this probably isn’t going to be a place you feel like calling home.

The life revolving around kids thing is definitely very Vienna. It’s incredibly family focused, for better or worse, and I’m sure you had to know that before moving there.

Sometimes we make poor decisions, maybe VA wasn’t the best choice for what you value. The good thing is it’s okay to accept that and move on. Find a place you want to call home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP. I moved to Vienna with my family in 2021, and we love it here. I might appear to be the type of person you're not interested in, but I'm actually pretty cool. even though my oldest is still in pre-school, I'm already very wary of the insane pressure we put on kids to do well in school. That being said, you will find that all over the DMV and anyone saying otherwise is lying or wrong. Anyways, I'd love to make some new friends. I love live music, tasty food, good (and bad) television and movies, and being outside. Happy to meet up for a walk or a beer if you want a new friend!

This is my post you’re rolling your eyes at. Why? I think I’m pretty great, a good friend, and an interesting person. I bet a lot of you are too! What’s the problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: You seem kind of nasty, op if you are making snide comments about travel sports and school performance. It’s like going to a hockey game and saying to the person next to you “f**ck it, I don’t care how anybody plays tonight”, you’re right to have that opinion, but then why did you come?
You kind of come across like the ‘cool moms” I’ve met, the ones who really don’t like anything or anybody. They use their “I’m so different and so real” mindset to just be nasty in what they think is a socially acceptable way to be nasty.

I also wonder if you are a bit too chill about your kids’ schoolwork and behavior, nobody wants their kid to be friends with a kid who’s parent says “f**ck the homework” or “rules are meant to be broken” not when that kid is hanging around your kid. I have both a family member and a good friend (two separate people) who dropped out of high school. Both are married, both doing well in their careers. Both of them have told me “my biggest mistake was dropping out of high school”. You can’t go back and do somethings over again, op, which is why many parents care way more about their kids’ growing up years then you may realize. I wonder if your profession has colored your viewpoint, nobody comes to your office to say “Hey, I’m having the best year of my life”. The parents you don’t seem to like are working very hard to minimize the likelihood of their kids becoming your clients. Does that bother you? I wonder.


I also wonder if you curse nappropriately, and I say this as a mom who told my third grader a joke with the word ass in it a few days ago. You have to know when to curse and when not to, and it almost sounds like you don’t.

Also, if you’re thinking of moving, that comes through to the people you meet. Nobody wants to spend time getting to know you if you won’t be around long, and nobody wants to be around someone who makes snide comments about the area where they live or their kids activities. I can remember as a teenager being asked to join an organization that promotes the rights of people with the disability that I happen to have. I was seriously considering it until the person I was talking to made a snide comment about drums, an instrument that I played and that I loved. Needless to say, I’ve not joined that organization, then or now, and on paper, that makes no sense. If that person had only stopped with “enjoy your drums, if you play on a different night that doesn’t conflict with our meeting, we’d love to have you” I very likely would have joined. That wasn’t what was said, and for the past 30 years, that person’s comments have colored my view of the organization. I frankly don’t care about them. Yes, one person has the ability to make that much of an impact for good or ill. I relate this because you may be harming your social justice causes more then you realize. All the people you interact with will remember is a woman who curses like a sailor, sniffs at the activities they enjoy, doesn’t care much about how her own kids do, and then talk about something that they should care about more. What a deal.

LOL you sound unhinged. OP said she doesn't like the pressure cooker agreement, not that she's advocating for dropping out of school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: You seem kind of nasty, op if you are making snide comments about travel sports and school performance. It’s like going to a hockey game and saying to the person next to you “f**ck it, I don’t care how anybody plays tonight”, you’re right to have that opinion, but then why did you come?
You kind of come across like the ‘cool moms” I’ve met, the ones who really don’t like anything or anybody. They use their “I’m so different and so real” mindset to just be nasty in what they think is a socially acceptable way to be nasty.

I also wonder if you are a bit too chill about your kids’ schoolwork and behavior, nobody wants their kid to be friends with a kid who’s parent says “f**ck the homework” or “rules are meant to be broken” not when that kid is hanging around your kid. I have both a family member and a good friend (two separate people) who dropped out of high school. Both are married, both doing well in their careers. Both of them have told me “my biggest mistake was dropping out of high school”. You can’t go back and do somethings over again, op, which is why many parents care way more about their kids’ growing up years then you may realize. I wonder if your profession has colored your viewpoint, nobody comes to your office to say “Hey, I’m having the best year of my life”. The parents you don’t seem to like are working very hard to minimize the likelihood of their kids becoming your clients. Does that bother you? I wonder.


I also wonder if you curse nappropriately, and I say this as a mom who told my third grader a joke with the word ass in it a few days ago. You have to know when to curse and when not to, and it almost sounds like you don’t.

Also, if you’re thinking of moving, that comes through to the people you meet. Nobody wants to spend time getting to know you if you won’t be around long, and nobody wants to be around someone who makes snide comments about the area where they live or their kids activities. I can remember as a teenager being asked to join an organization that promotes the rights of people with the disability that I happen to have. I was seriously considering it until the person I was talking to made a snide comment about drums, an instrument that I played and that I loved. Needless to say, I’ve not joined that organization, then or now, and on paper, that makes no sense. If that person had only stopped with “enjoy your drums, if you play on a different night that doesn’t conflict with our meeting, we’d love to have you” I very likely would have joined. That wasn’t what was said, and for the past 30 years, that person’s comments have colored my view of the organization. I frankly don’t care about them. Yes, one person has the ability to make that much of an impact for good or ill. I relate this because you may be harming your social justice causes more then you realize. All the people you interact with will remember is a woman who curses like a sailor, sniffs at the activities they enjoy, doesn’t care much about how her own kids do, and then talk about something that they should care about more. What a deal.

LOL you sound unhinged. OP said she doesn't like the pressure cooker agreement, not that she's advocating for dropping out of school.

*pressure cooker environment. what a weird autocorrect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound obnoxious and full of yourself. A very "not like the other girls" vibe. Gross.

At least we know why she's a single parent.

Yikes. The Vienna moms are living up to their “mean girls” reputation and then some.

OP here. This is what I'm referring to. I could totally imagine someone in my neighborhood saying this to me -- the intolerance for anyone who doesn't fit the "Vienna mold" is intense.

OP. You are a mean girl

Why? She has stated her opinion of the situation without name calling or even put downs.Meanwhile people in here are calling her loser. And yet you call her a mean girl?

It is almost like everyone expects all women to get along with each other even if they are uncomfortable. Do women always have to be “like the other girls?” Are they allowed to be introverts? If a woman doesn’t like to hang in mommy groups she needs to be painted as a “loser”

This is a weird thread and I guess my gen x self is too old to understand this divisive crap.

Op good luck and I hope you find a person or two!

Because she doesn’t like her neighbors, puts down the things other moms talk about as if it’s beneath her, doesn’t seem to want to get involved and get along with any group, and says she curses a lot and likes to rock the boat. I live in Vienna and have friends who live next door to people on the other side of the political aisle and they all get along. I don’t think they would though if they put down things a majority of other parents cared about in the town or cursed a lot or tried to rock the boat all the time. I know they both got pets this past year and enjoy talking about them and their kids. I like it that they are less involved in social justice and more involved in just being a good person, neighbor, and friend. This behavior calling out everyone also wouldn’t fly in Petworth. I have friends in Petworth and they have their own special interests.

But maybe she IS the person talking about dogs over the fence. That is a polite acquaintance or neighbor relationship in person but not a deep friendship. I’m assuming OP wants someone to be real with whom she can curse around and have a deeper bond with. You can be surface politely to anyone: civil talk about dogs and trees etc. those are not lasting bonds which is what I think OP is looking for.

Just because she is writing her true thoughts online doesn’t mean she isn’t surface poliete. She cant break through surface polite and that is the issue for her right now.

OP here. Yes, you get it. I can totally do surface level conversation -- could talk about my dog for hours! It's just that every conversation seems so surface level, and the ones that aren't usually center around kids' achievement/enrichment. It's exhausting. And these are just with the people who haven't automatically alienated me for being a single mom.

You’re expecting deep, opinionated debates at morning drop off? On the soccer field?

You realize that surface level topics is basically just polite conversation right? You have to actually get to know people and work to build friendships that naturally lead to deeper conversations.

Yes, it’s 100% a Virginia thing to make polite conversation. You moved to VA and that’s the culture. When in Rome.. If it doesn’t vibe with you then this probably isn’t going to be a place you feel like calling home.

The life revolving around kids thing is definitely very Vienna. It’s incredibly family focused, for better or worse, and I’m sure you had to know that before moving there.

Sometimes we make poor decisions, maybe VA wasn’t the best choice for what you value. The good thing is it’s okay to accept that and move on. Find a place you want to call home.

I will say it again. For what OP wants, any place in NoVa will be better than Vienna. Vienna is the epitome of boring, “don’t make waves” suburbia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like to rock the boat but also want everyone to like me.

What a narcissit.

I find people who characterize or conceive of themselves as too honest for other people to handle are often just idiot loudmouths.

Not sure what place would be a good fit for a personality like that.

I don't think OP expects everyone to like her. I think she probably wants some people to like her and not to rush to exclude her because she can be outspoken and opinionated at times.

That sort of stuff can just be the kiss of death in Vienna. It sounds like you either have no idea how quickly Vienna parents can ostracize someone who doesn't fit the mold or are one of those folks.

It is bizarre to me how people are so delusional and out of touch that they can’t even fathom that people in DMV suburb like Vienna are more conformist and than usual and that is more milquetoast than most areas. The DMV, especially NoVA, is much more conformist than the nation in general because there are a lot of government employees and a lot of defense contractors. These aren’t the type of people who are known to think outside the box and break the rules - I know that might be a shock to some people. There are places in almost every place in the country that would be less conformist than Vienna, or extreme cases like Austin, Bushwick, Silver Lake, etc. To act like the whole country is just homogeneous and there’s no different in the vibe of Vienna and the vibe of even a place like Takoma Park is just not true. OP just hasn’t found her tribe and should move to someplace else. It’s not her fault.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP. I moved to Vienna with my family in 2021, and we love it here. I might appear to be the type of person you're not interested in, but I'm actually pretty cool. even though my oldest is still in pre-school, I'm already very wary of the insane pressure we put on kids to do well in school. That being said, you will find that all over the DMV and anyone saying otherwise is lying or wrong. Anyways, I'd love to make some new friends. I love live music, tasty food, good (and bad) television and movies, and being outside. Happy to meet up for a walk or a beer if you want a new friend!

This is my post you’re rolling your eyes at. Why? I think I’m pretty great, a good friend, and an interesting person. I bet a lot of you are too! What’s the problem?

For what it's worth, PP, I think that you sounded fun! I also don't get the eyeroll.

DCUM is where the soul goes to die it seems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP. I moved to Vienna with my family in 2021, and we love it here. I might appear to be the type of person you're not interested in, but I'm actually pretty cool. even though my oldest is still in pre-school, I'm already very wary of the insane pressure we put on kids to do well in school. That being said, you will find that all over the DMV and anyone saying otherwise is lying or wrong. Anyways, I'd love to make some new friends. I love live music, tasty food, good (and bad) television and movies, and being outside. Happy to meet up for a walk or a beer if you want a new friend!

This is my post you’re rolling your eyes at. Why? I think I’m pretty great, a good friend, and an interesting person. I bet a lot of you are too! What’s the problem?

For what it's worth, PP, I think that you sounded fun! I also don't get the eyeroll.

DCUM is where the soul goes to die it seems.

This. The stereotypical Vienna resident and the stereotypical DCUMer have a lot of overlap. Status-chasing strivers who conform to a T.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound obnoxious and full of yourself. A very "not like the other girls" vibe. Gross.

At least we know why she's a single parent.

Yikes. The Vienna moms are living up to their “mean girls” reputation and then some.

OP here. This is what I'm referring to. I could totally imagine someone in my neighborhood saying this to me -- the intolerance for anyone who doesn't fit the "Vienna mold" is intense.

OP. You are a mean girl

Why? She has stated her opinion of the situation without name calling or even put downs.Meanwhile people in here are calling her loser. And yet you call her a mean girl?

It is almost like everyone expects all women to get along with each other even if they are uncomfortable. Do women always have to be “like the other girls?” Are they allowed to be introverts? If a woman doesn’t like to hang in mommy groups she needs to be painted as a “loser”

This is a weird thread and I guess my gen x self is too old to understand this divisive crap.

Op good luck and I hope you find a person or two!

Because she doesn’t like her neighbors, puts down the things other moms talk about as if it’s beneath her, doesn’t seem to want to get involved and get along with any group, and says she curses a lot and likes to rock the boat. I live in Vienna and have friends who live next door to people on the other side of the political aisle and they all get along. I don’t think they would though if they put down things a majority of other parents cared about in the town or cursed a lot or tried to rock the boat all the time. I know they both got pets this past year and enjoy talking about them and their kids. I like it that they are less involved in social justice and more involved in just being a good person, neighbor, and friend. This behavior calling out everyone also wouldn’t fly in Petworth. I have friends in Petworth and they have their own special interests.

But maybe she IS the person talking about dogs over the fence. That is a polite acquaintance or neighbor relationship in person but not a deep friendship. I’m assuming OP wants someone to be real with whom she can curse around and have a deeper bond with. You can be surface politely to anyone: civil talk about dogs and trees etc. those are not lasting bonds which is what I think OP is looking for.

Just because she is writing her true thoughts online doesn’t mean she isn’t surface poliete. She cant break through surface polite and that is the issue for her right now.

OP here. Yes, you get it. I can totally do surface level conversation -- could talk about my dog for hours! It's just that every conversation seems so surface level, and the ones that aren't usually center around kids' achievement/enrichment. It's exhausting. And these are just with the people who haven't automatically alienated me for being a single mom.

You’re expecting deep, opinionated debates at morning drop off? On the soccer field?

You realize that surface level topics is basically just polite conversation right? You have to actually get to know people and work to build friendships that naturally lead to deeper conversations.

Yes, it’s 100% a Virginia thing to make polite conversation. You moved to VA and that’s the culture. When in Rome.. If it doesn’t vibe with you then this probably isn’t going to be a place you feel like calling home.

The life revolving around kids thing is definitely very Vienna. It’s incredibly family focused, for better or worse, and I’m sure you had to know that before moving there.

Sometimes we make poor decisions, maybe VA wasn’t the best choice for what you value. The good thing is it’s okay to accept that and move on. Find a place you want to call home.

I will say it again. For what OP wants, any place in NoVa will be better than Vienna. Vienna is the epitome of boring, “don’t make waves” suburbia.

I’m not disagreeing. We like getting along with our neighbors. We like teaching our kids kindness towards others even if our viewpoints are different. We aren’t going to yell at you if you brought 11 items in the 10 item limit check out line. We’ll slow down for your new teenage driver on the road not flip them off and speed around them.

It’s refreshing living in a small part of this area where people are not itching to get in someone else’s face about something petty and instead offer goodwill and niceness instead.

I get it if that’s not for you. There’s a whole lot of nasty in the DC metro area. Take your pick, no need to feel out of place when there are plenty of options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound obnoxious and full of yourself. A very "not like the other girls" vibe. Gross.

At least we know why she's a single parent.

Yikes. The Vienna moms are living up to their “mean girls” reputation and then some.

OP here. This is what I'm referring to. I could totally imagine someone in my neighborhood saying this to me -- the intolerance for anyone who doesn't fit the "Vienna mold" is intense.

OP. You are a mean girl

Why? She has stated her opinion of the situation without name calling or even put downs.Meanwhile people in here are calling her loser. And yet you call her a mean girl?

It is almost like everyone expects all women to get along with each other even if they are uncomfortable. Do women always have to be “like the other girls?” Are they allowed to be introverts? If a woman doesn’t like to hang in mommy groups she needs to be painted as a “loser”

This is a weird thread and I guess my gen x self is too old to understand this divisive crap.

Op good luck and I hope you find a person or two!

Because she doesn’t like her neighbors, puts down the things other moms talk about as if it’s beneath her, doesn’t seem to want to get involved and get along with any group, and says she curses a lot and likes to rock the boat. I live in Vienna and have friends who live next door to people on the other side of the political aisle and they all get along. I don’t think they would though if they put down things a majority of other parents cared about in the town or cursed a lot or tried to rock the boat all the time. I know they both got pets this past year and enjoy talking about them and their kids. I like it that they are less involved in social justice and more involved in just being a good person, neighbor, and friend. This behavior calling out everyone also wouldn’t fly in Petworth. I have friends in Petworth and they have their own special interests.

But maybe she IS the person talking about dogs over the fence. That is a polite acquaintance or neighbor relationship in person but not a deep friendship. I’m assuming OP wants someone to be real with whom she can curse around and have a deeper bond with. You can be surface politely to anyone: civil talk about dogs and trees etc. those are not lasting bonds which is what I think OP is looking for.

Just because she is writing her true thoughts online doesn’t mean she isn’t surface poliete. She cant break through surface polite and that is the issue for her right now.

OP here. Yes, you get it. I can totally do surface level conversation -- could talk about my dog for hours! It's just that every conversation seems so surface level, and the ones that aren't usually center around kids' achievement/enrichment. It's exhausting. And these are just with the people who haven't automatically alienated me for being a single mom.

You’re expecting deep, opinionated debates at morning drop off? On the soccer field?

You realize that surface level topics is basically just polite conversation right? You have to actually get to know people and work to build friendships that naturally lead to deeper conversations.

Yes, it’s 100% a Virginia thing to make polite conversation. You moved to VA and that’s the culture. When in Rome.. If it doesn’t vibe with you then this probably isn’t going to be a place you feel like calling home.

The life revolving around kids thing is definitely very Vienna. It’s incredibly family focused, for better or worse, and I’m sure you had to know that before moving there.

Sometimes we make poor decisions, maybe VA wasn’t the best choice for what you value. The good thing is it’s okay to accept that and move on. Find a place you want to call home.

I will say it again. For what OP wants, any place in NoVa will be better than Vienna. Vienna is the epitome of boring, “don’t make waves” suburbia.

I’m not disagreeing. We like getting along with our neighbors. We like teaching our kids kindness towards others even if our viewpoints are different. We aren’t going to yell at you if you brought 11 items in the 10 item limit check out line. We’ll slow down for your new teenage driver on the road not flip them off and speed around them.

It’s refreshing living in a small part of this area where people are not itching to get in someone else’s face about something petty and instead offer goodwill and niceness instead.

I get it if that’s not for you. There’s a whole lot of nasty in the DC metro area. Take your pick, no need to feel out of place when there are plenty of options.

Let's deconstruct this, shall we?

We like getting along with our neighbors.

Yes, so long as they display the same conformist tendencies that we do and don't bring up anything that might make us feel uncomfortable.


We like teaching our kids kindness towards others even if our view points are different.

Hard to say, because expressing one's viewpoints isn't really encouraged in Vienna, and you don't teach your kids kindness towards children who aren't smart, athletic, or otherwise talented in ways that make Vienna look good.

We aren’t going to yell at you if you brought 11 items in the 10 item limit check out line.

True, you won't yell. If you spot someone you know nearby, though, you'll do a truly impressive eye-roll.

We’ll slow down for your new teenage driver on the road not flip them off and speed around them.

If you know the new teenage driver or their parents, you'll be so solicitous that it will curdle milk. If you don't know the driver or their parents, you'll use the same middle fingers you whipped out to flip off the refs who called a foul on your kid during the travel league game last weekend.

It’s refreshing living in a small part of this area where people are not itching to get in someone else’s face about something petty and instead offer goodwill and niceness instead.

As OP can attest, it's depressing living in a small part of this area where people revel in the superficial and look for arbitrary flaws they can find in others to exclude them from their inner circle.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You sound obnoxious and full of yourself. A very "not like the other girls" vibe. Gross.

At least we know why she's a single parent.

Yikes. The Vienna moms are living up to their “mean girls” reputation and then some.

OP here. This is what I'm referring to. I could totally imagine someone in my neighborhood saying this to me -- the intolerance for anyone who doesn't fit the "Vienna mold" is intense.

OP. You are a mean girl

Why? She has stated her opinion of the situation without name calling or even put downs.Meanwhile people in here are calling her loser. And yet you call her a mean girl?

It is almost like everyone expects all women to get along with each other even if they are uncomfortable. Do women always have to be “like the other girls?” Are they allowed to be introverts? If a woman doesn’t like to hang in mommy groups she needs to be painted as a “loser”

This is a weird thread and I guess my gen x self is too old to understand this divisive crap.

Op good luck and I hope you find a person or two!

Because she doesn’t like her neighbors, puts down the things other moms talk about as if it’s beneath her, doesn’t seem to want to get involved and get along with any group, and says she curses a lot and likes to rock the boat. I live in Vienna and have friends who live next door to people on the other side of the political aisle and they all get along. I don’t think they would though if they put down things a majority of other parents cared about in the town or cursed a lot or tried to rock the boat all the time. I know they both got pets this past year and enjoy talking about them and their kids. I like it that they are less involved in social justice and more involved in just being a good person, neighbor, and friend. This behavior calling out everyone also wouldn’t fly in Petworth. I have friends in Petworth and they have their own special interests.

But maybe she IS the person talking about dogs over the fence. That is a polite acquaintance or neighbor relationship in person but not a deep friendship. I’m assuming OP wants someone to be real with whom she can curse around and have a deeper bond with. You can be surface politely to anyone: civil talk about dogs and trees etc. those are not lasting bonds which is what I think OP is looking for.

Just because she is writing her true thoughts online doesn’t mean she isn’t surface poliete. She cant break through surface polite and that is the issue for her right now.

OP here. Yes, you get it. I can totally do surface level conversation -- could talk about my dog for hours! It's just that every conversation seems so surface level, and the ones that aren't usually center around kids' achievement/enrichment. It's exhausting. And these are just with the people who haven't automatically alienated me for being a single mom.

You’re expecting deep, opinionated debates at morning drop off? On the soccer field?

You realize that surface level topics is basically just polite conversation right? You have to actually get to know people and work to build friendships that naturally lead to deeper conversations.

Yes, it’s 100% a Virginia thing to make polite conversation. You moved to VA and that’s the culture. When in Rome.. If it doesn’t vibe with you then this probably isn’t going to be a place you feel like calling home.

The life revolving around kids thing is definitely very Vienna. It’s incredibly family focused, for better or worse, and I’m sure you had to know that before moving there.

Sometimes we make poor decisions, maybe VA wasn’t the best choice for what you value. The good thing is it’s okay to accept that and move on. Find a place you want to call home.

I will say it again. For what OP wants, any place in NoVa will be better than Vienna. Vienna is the epitome of boring, “don’t make waves” suburbia.

I’m not disagreeing. We like getting along with our neighbors. We like teaching our kids kindness towards others even if our viewpoints are different. We aren’t going to yell at you if you brought 11 items in the 10 item limit check out line. We’ll slow down for your new teenage driver on the road not flip them off and speed around them.

It’s refreshing living in a small part of this area where people are not itching to get in someone else’s face about something petty and instead offer goodwill and niceness instead.

I get it if that’s not for you. There’s a whole lot of nasty in the DC metro area. Take your pick, no need to feel out of place when there are plenty of options.

Let's deconstruct this, shall we?

We like getting along with our neighbors.

Yes, so long as they display the same conformist tendencies that we do and don't bring up anything that might make us feel uncomfortable.


We like teaching our kids kindness towards others even if our view points are different.

Hard to say, because expressing one's viewpoints isn't really encouraged in Vienna, and you don't teach your kids kindness towards children who aren't smart, athletic, or otherwise talented in ways that make Vienna look good.

We aren’t going to yell at you if you brought 11 items in the 10 item limit check out line.

True, you won't yell. If you spot someone you know nearby, though, you'll do a truly impressive eye-roll.

We’ll slow down for your new teenage driver on the road not flip them off and speed around them.

If you know the new teenage driver or their parents, you'll be so solicitous that it will curdle milk. If you don't know the driver or their parents, you'll use the same middle fingers you whipped out to flip off the refs who called a foul on your kid during the travel league game last weekend.

It’s refreshing living in a small part of this area where people are not itching to get in someone else’s face about something petty and instead offer goodwill and niceness instead.

As OP can attest, it's depressing living in a small part of this area where people revel in the superficial and look for arbitrary flaws they can find in others to exclude them from their inner circle.

Wow, this is a lot of projection. I’m pretty new to this area but this hasn’t been my experience at all. I’m sorry it’s been yours.

[Anonymous]

OP! I am a single mom in Vienna and totally hear you on so much of this. I have two kids, one is early elementary and one is late elementary. I feel so alone and isolated sometimes as a single person here! Would love to meet up for coffee or a drink. Is there a way to contact you?

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Anonymous wrote:I moved from DC to Vienna three years ago for more space (and also because my work moved completely remote). I thought that the tight-knit sense of community would appeal to me and my two kids (late elementary school), but that hasn’t really been the case.

I feel like a fish out of water. I’m a single mom, and already I feel like that separates me from the family-oriented nature of Vienna. I also don’t really fit into the suburban soccer mom stereotype that Vienna is known for. I’m not super interested in playing politics with my neighbors. I’m pretty vocal about social injustice and I curse a lot — I don’t really buy into the “don’t rock the boat” ethos around me.

The competitive nature of the other parents and the Type A pressure cooker of the schools also concern me. I’m a psychologist and I’ve seen WAY too many teens in this area break down because of the intense pressure, and I sometimes feel like I should’ve chosen a “lower performing” school that doesn’t have the relentless pressure to succeed.

The tightly-wound nature of the other parents bother me, and sometimes they make comments about how I’m not “pushing” my kids by putting them in travel sports or extra academic enrichment. It just seems like most of the people around me are Type A rule-following lawyers, which feels really weird as someone who spent my teens and twenties going to punk shows and making lots of (bad) art…

And the conservatism of the area is unsettling. I don’t really find any Trump supporters/far-right people in the area, but there is a general social conservatism and intense conformity that feels uncomfortable.

Is this just what living in the suburbs is like? Or is it intensified in Vienna? Is there another NoVa/Moco/DC neighborhood where parents like me congregate?

A lot of people in this area have political beliefs that you wouldn't know about. I know a ton of people on both ends of the spectrum including social justice types that keep a low profile because of their work or their spouse's work. Come on. Think about where we live.

Just because people don't shout it from the rooftops doesn't make them what you're assuming they are.

Get over yourself.

I am the PP who used to live in Vienna who has OP's back.

The issue isn't that there are people on both ends of the political spectrum who live in Vienna or other places in the area. The issue is that, in other places, you can generally engage in a political discussion with others that acknowledges you may well have different perspectives. Hopefully it doesn't end in shouting, and perhaps sometimes it even does, but topics (as opposed to confidential information) aren't off-limits.

In Vienna, you run the risk of being shunned for "bad form" because you've brought up controversial political issues at all, when you should have known the acceptable topics of discourse were (1) VYI sports, (2) the Madison HS band, (3) AAP, (4) the local Boy Scouts/Girl Scouts troops, (5) slots on local PTA committees and (6) whether Caffe Amouri has gone downhill. [I'm exaggerating slightly, but not as much as you might think.]

OP, you belong in a place like Bailey's Crossroads or Hybla Valley or Annandale if you want to act on social injustice. Suggestions for somewhere like Burke or Fairfax are absurd. Sure, these places are poorer than Vienna so parents don't have their kids in everything, but they aren't politically or socially much different than Vienna.

I've lived in several of these locations including Fairfax now.

Exhibit A for why OP wants to leave Vienna - and other PPs have said that they avoid it like the plague. These people are just class.
I live in Fairfax. The median income is $138K. Vienna's median income is $168K. So that's $30K d, which is really not that much. Most people in FFX are quite liberal and not unlike OP. Most of our family lives in Vienna, and they are exactly like the PP, which is what I do not want for my kids. Can you imagine the children of PP in high school? No thank you

Can you imagine the children in high school? I don't understand this comment. Madison has a huge amount of school spirit and that includes the band, the football team, and the drama club along with the kids who work at all the retail along Maple or just hang out around the community center. It has a lot to do with the draw of the area.