The difference btw the AAP class and the General Ed class

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^I am speaking from personal experience. It wasn’t an advanced class but a class only offered at the school virtually. It was a simple “Sorry, it’s filled.” They gave my kid two other completely unrelated options that would fit in his schedule. It’s about what fits in, not what you want at that point. We certainly weren’t demanding a class spot and bus transportation. Lesson learned, we are already researching other virtual options outside of FCPS for next year.

I firmly think they need to stop the transportation for AAP centers and one of mine went through AAP but stayed at the base school. There are so many other things to spend the money on.

No way they’re going to do this. It’s an equity issue. You’d basically be excluding all the kids whose parents don’t have the resources to drive them every day.

Okay. But there are centers that have every school with a Local Level 4. For example, every school that sends to Westbriar has a Local Level 4. Why should we be bussing kids when they can get a Level 4 class at their own school?

The argument is that the Center schools allow for more classrooms so that the kids can be mixed up every year, just like the Gen Ed classes are shuffled every year. It is better for socialization for kids to have a larger cohort of kids and gives room to keep kids who clash apart.

I think the solution is that you have Advanced Math and Advanced LA in every school. Maybe it is Advanced Math and Science and Advanced LA and Social Studies since there are overlapping skill sets in the classes. Allow kids to move classes based on their areas of strength. Since many schoolshave 3 or more classrooms for each grade, you should be able to keep classes balanced in size and skill set. It would allow more kids to be challenged in their areas of strength. For even larger schools you would end up with 2 advanced classrooms for each of the areas.

The fluidity would be good for all kids and you wouldn’t have to worry about the cohort issues. You could also adjust the kids in each group annually so that kids who start to advance later in ES. It would also allow kids who were on the cusp and are struggling to be moved back into a group that works for them. You also remove the designation and hence the competitive aspect of LIV, that is ridiculous. LIII goes away, since there is Advanced LA, which allows the AART to do more with the LII type kids in K-2 and to provide support for the truly gifted kids who need more then Advanced Math or LA provides.

And you get rid of the Centers and busses and relieve over crowding at some of the Center schools.

+100
I've been wishing they would do something like this for years.
DP

This was how my podunk ES did it in the 80's in of those open concept schools. And by golly it worked.

But this is tracking which is deemed Inequitable. There should be some sort of testing to determine who gets what but my suspicion is that it will be ignored. Fcps has already called out the low numbers of POC and low income in AAP and the goal is to even it out.

DP. Isn't AAP simply tracking as well - but on a much greater scale? In fact, sorting very young kids into two groups at age 7 is the very definition of tracking. Flexible grouping would allow ALL children to progress at the pace that is right for them - moving up when ready, moving down when the work is too challenging. AAP - and especially center schools - are blatant segregation.

Segregation and tracking are two different words.

And unfortunately, the state of Virginia requires a gifted program and this is how FCPS implements theirs. So they have cover from your attack of tracking and segregation.

Except that it's not a "gifted" program and they very deliberately do not call it one. And it is the very definition of segregation.

FCPS is absolutely guilty of segregation, but that is accomplished by pyramid boundaries. I wouldn't fault AAP for that. If anything, AAP Centers are a temporary way out for capable kids that are stuck in hyper-segregated ES/MS zones.

BS. Our Level IV center had equal numbers of kids in AAP and in gen ed. That's not gifted or more capable kids . . . it's separating kids out for very little reason, creating division and stereotyping, and is just unnecessary

The reason is so that the low students can get the support they need without having to keep the higher kids “busy”.

No, the higher performers are routinely paired with the lower ones for reading and group projects.

No they're not, that is proven not to work and nobody does it, they send the high performers to AAP, obvs

Not all high performers make it into AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^I am speaking from personal experience. It wasn’t an advanced class but a class only offered at the school virtually. It was a simple “Sorry, it’s filled.” They gave my kid two other completely unrelated options that would fit in his schedule. It’s about what fits in, not what you want at that point. We certainly weren’t demanding a class spot and bus transportation. Lesson learned, we are already researching other virtual options outside of FCPS for next year.

I firmly think they need to stop the transportation for AAP centers and one of mine went through AAP but stayed at the base school. There are so many other things to spend the money on.

No way they’re going to do this. It’s an equity issue. You’d basically be excluding all the kids whose parents don’t have the resources to drive them every day.

Okay. But there are centers that have every school with a Local Level 4. For example, every school that sends to Westbriar has a Local Level 4. Why should we be bussing kids when they can get a Level 4 class at their own school?

The argument is that the Center schools allow for more classrooms so that the kids can be mixed up every year, just like the Gen Ed classes are shuffled every year. It is better for socialization for kids to have a larger cohort of kids and gives room to keep kids who clash apart.

I think the solution is that you have Advanced Math and Advanced LA in every school. Maybe it is Advanced Math and Science and Advanced LA and Social Studies since there are overlapping skill sets in the classes. Allow kids to move classes based on their areas of strength. Since many schoolshave 3 or more classrooms for each grade, you should be able to keep classes balanced in size and skill set. It would allow more kids to be challenged in their areas of strength. For even larger schools you would end up with 2 advanced classrooms for each of the areas.

The fluidity would be good for all kids and you wouldn’t have to worry about the cohort issues. You could also adjust the kids in each group annually so that kids who start to advance later in ES. It would also allow kids who were on the cusp and are struggling to be moved back into a group that works for them. You also remove the designation and hence the competitive aspect of LIV, that is ridiculous. LIII goes away, since there is Advanced LA, which allows the AART to do more with the LII type kids in K-2 and to provide support for the truly gifted kids who need more then Advanced Math or LA provides.

And you get rid of the Centers and busses and relieve over crowding at some of the Center schools.

+100
I've been wishing they would do something like this for years.
DP

This was how my podunk ES did it in the 80's in of those open concept schools. And by golly it worked.

But this is tracking which is deemed Inequitable. There should be some sort of testing to determine who gets what but my suspicion is that it will be ignored. Fcps has already called out the low numbers of POC and low income in AAP and the goal is to even it out.

DP. Isn't AAP simply tracking as well - but on a much greater scale? In fact, sorting very young kids into two groups at age 7 is the very definition of tracking. Flexible grouping would allow ALL children to progress at the pace that is right for them - moving up when ready, moving down when the work is too challenging. AAP - and especially center schools - are blatant segregation.

Segregation and tracking are two different words.

And unfortunately, the state of Virginia requires a gifted program and this is how FCPS implements theirs. So they have cover from your attack of tracking and segregation.

Except that it's not a "gifted" program and they very deliberately do not call it one. And it is the very definition of segregation.

FCPS is absolutely guilty of segregation, but that is accomplished by pyramid boundaries. I wouldn't fault AAP for that. If anything, AAP Centers are a temporary way out for capable kids that are stuck in hyper-segregated ES/MS zones.

BS. Our Level IV center had equal numbers of kids in AAP and in gen ed. That's not gifted or more capable kids . . . it's separating kids out for very little reason, creating division and stereotyping, and is just unnecessary

+1
"Gifted" kids should make up a tiny fraction of all kids. The size of AAP is absurd. The actual GT program that FCPS used to have is what they should go back to. ONLY highly gifted kids were in it - the vast majority of all other kids were in Gen Ed. And Gen Ed was far more challenging and interesting than it currently is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^I am speaking from personal experience. It wasn’t an advanced class but a class only offered at the school virtually. It was a simple “Sorry, it’s filled.” They gave my kid two other completely unrelated options that would fit in his schedule. It’s about what fits in, not what you want at that point. We certainly weren’t demanding a class spot and bus transportation. Lesson learned, we are already researching other virtual options outside of FCPS for next year.

I firmly think they need to stop the transportation for AAP centers and one of mine went through AAP but stayed at the base school. There are so many other things to spend the money on.

No way they’re going to do this. It’s an equity issue. You’d basically be excluding all the kids whose parents don’t have the resources to drive them every day.

Okay. But there are centers that have every school with a Local Level 4. For example, every school that sends to Westbriar has a Local Level 4. Why should we be bussing kids when they can get a Level 4 class at their own school?

The argument is that the Center schools allow for more classrooms so that the kids can be mixed up every year, just like the Gen Ed classes are shuffled every year. It is better for socialization for kids to have a larger cohort of kids and gives room to keep kids who clash apart.

I think the solution is that you have Advanced Math and Advanced LA in every school. Maybe it is Advanced Math and Science and Advanced LA and Social Studies since there are overlapping skill sets in the classes. Allow kids to move classes based on their areas of strength. Since many schoolshave 3 or more classrooms for each grade, you should be able to keep classes balanced in size and skill set. It would allow more kids to be challenged in their areas of strength. For even larger schools you would end up with 2 advanced classrooms for each of the areas.

The fluidity would be good for all kids and you wouldn’t have to worry about the cohort issues. You could also adjust the kids in each group annually so that kids who start to advance later in ES. It would also allow kids who were on the cusp and are struggling to be moved back into a group that works for them. You also remove the designation and hence the competitive aspect of LIV, that is ridiculous. LIII goes away, since there is Advanced LA, which allows the AART to do more with the LII type kids in K-2 and to provide support for the truly gifted kids who need more then Advanced Math or LA provides.

And you get rid of the Centers and busses and relieve over crowding at some of the Center schools.

+100
I've been wishing they would do something like this for years.
DP

This was how my podunk ES did it in the 80's in of those open concept schools. And by golly it worked.

But this is tracking which is deemed Inequitable. There should be some sort of testing to determine who gets what but my suspicion is that it will be ignored. Fcps has already called out the low numbers of POC and low income in AAP and the goal is to even it out.

DP. Isn't AAP simply tracking as well - but on a much greater scale? In fact, sorting very young kids into two groups at age 7 is the very definition of tracking. Flexible grouping would allow ALL children to progress at the pace that is right for them - moving up when ready, moving down when the work is too challenging. AAP - and especially center schools - are blatant segregation.

Segregation and tracking are two different words.

And unfortunately, the state of Virginia requires a gifted program and this is how FCPS implements theirs. So they have cover from your attack of tracking and segregation.

Except that it's not a "gifted" program and they very deliberately do not call it one. And it is the very definition of segregation.

FCPS is absolutely guilty of segregation, but that is accomplished by pyramid boundaries. I wouldn't fault AAP for that. If anything, AAP Centers are a temporary way out for capable kids that are stuck in hyper-segregated ES/MS zones.

BS. Our Level IV center had equal numbers of kids in AAP and in gen ed. That's not gifted or more capable kids . . . it's separating kids out for very little reason, creating division and stereotyping, and is just unnecessary

The reason is so that the low students can get the support they need without having to keep the higher kids “busy”.

No, the higher performers are routinely paired with the lower ones for reading and group projects.

No they're not, that is proven not to work and nobody does it, they send the high performers to AAP, obvs

Not all high performers make it into AAP.

+1
That's the truth. I'm always amazed at the kids who blast to the top during HS, who were never in AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^I am speaking from personal experience. It wasn’t an advanced class but a class only offered at the school virtually. It was a simple “Sorry, it’s filled.” They gave my kid two other completely unrelated options that would fit in his schedule. It’s about what fits in, not what you want at that point. We certainly weren’t demanding a class spot and bus transportation. Lesson learned, we are already researching other virtual options outside of FCPS for next year.

I firmly think they need to stop the transportation for AAP centers and one of mine went through AAP but stayed at the base school. There are so many other things to spend the money on.

No way they’re going to do this. It’s an equity issue. You’d basically be excluding all the kids whose parents don’t have the resources to drive them every day.

Okay. But there are centers that have every school with a Local Level 4. For example, every school that sends to Westbriar has a Local Level 4. Why should we be bussing kids when they can get a Level 4 class at their own school?

The argument is that the Center schools allow for more classrooms so that the kids can be mixed up every year, just like the Gen Ed classes are shuffled every year. It is better for socialization for kids to have a larger cohort of kids and gives room to keep kids who clash apart.

I think the solution is that you have Advanced Math and Advanced LA in every school. Maybe it is Advanced Math and Science and Advanced LA and Social Studies since there are overlapping skill sets in the classes. Allow kids to move classes based on their areas of strength. Since many schoolshave 3 or more classrooms for each grade, you should be able to keep classes balanced in size and skill set. It would allow more kids to be challenged in their areas of strength. For even larger schools you would end up with 2 advanced classrooms for each of the areas.

The fluidity would be good for all kids and you wouldn’t have to worry about the cohort issues. You could also adjust the kids in each group annually so that kids who start to advance later in ES. It would also allow kids who were on the cusp and are struggling to be moved back into a group that works for them. You also remove the designation and hence the competitive aspect of LIV, that is ridiculous. LIII goes away, since there is Advanced LA, which allows the AART to do more with the LII type kids in K-2 and to provide support for the truly gifted kids who need more then Advanced Math or LA provides.

And you get rid of the Centers and busses and relieve over crowding at some of the Center schools.

+100
I've been wishing they would do something like this for years.
DP

This was how my podunk ES did it in the 80's in of those open concept schools. And by golly it worked.

But this is tracking which is deemed Inequitable. There should be some sort of testing to determine who gets what but my suspicion is that it will be ignored. Fcps has already called out the low numbers of POC and low income in AAP and the goal is to even it out.

DP. Isn't AAP simply tracking as well - but on a much greater scale? In fact, sorting very young kids into two groups at age 7 is the very definition of tracking. Flexible grouping would allow ALL children to progress at the pace that is right for them - moving up when ready, moving down when the work is too challenging. AAP - and especially center schools - are blatant segregation.

Segregation and tracking are two different words.

And unfortunately, the state of Virginia requires a gifted program and this is how FCPS implements theirs. So they have cover from your attack of tracking and segregation.

Except that it's not a "gifted" program and they very deliberately do not call it one. And it is the very definition of segregation.

FCPS is absolutely guilty of segregation, but that is accomplished by pyramid boundaries. I wouldn't fault AAP for that. If anything, AAP Centers are a temporary way out for capable kids that are stuck in hyper-segregated ES/MS zones.

BS. Our Level IV center had equal numbers of kids in AAP and in gen ed. That's not gifted or more capable kids . . . it's separating kids out for very little reason, creating division and stereotyping, and is just unnecessary

+1
"Gifted" kids should make up a tiny fraction of all kids. The size of AAP is absurd. The actual GT program that FCPS used to have is what they should go back to. ONLY highly gifted kids were in it - the vast majority of all other kids were in Gen Ed. And Gen Ed was far more challenging and interesting than it currently is.

Yes, it used to be cogat scores >= 140 but they lowered it to 130 to increase diversity. Only they didn't get the kids they wanted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^I am speaking from personal experience. It wasn’t an advanced class but a class only offered at the school virtually. It was a simple “Sorry, it’s filled.” They gave my kid two other completely unrelated options that would fit in his schedule. It’s about what fits in, not what you want at that point. We certainly weren’t demanding a class spot and bus transportation. Lesson learned, we are already researching other virtual options outside of FCPS for next year.

I firmly think they need to stop the transportation for AAP centers and one of mine went through AAP but stayed at the base school. There are so many other things to spend the money on.

No way they’re going to do this. It’s an equity issue. You’d basically be excluding all the kids whose parents don’t have the resources to drive them every day.

Okay. But there are centers that have every school with a Local Level 4. For example, every school that sends to Westbriar has a Local Level 4. Why should we be bussing kids when they can get a Level 4 class at their own school?

The argument is that the Center schools allow for more classrooms so that the kids can be mixed up every year, just like the Gen Ed classes are shuffled every year. It is better for socialization for kids to have a larger cohort of kids and gives room to keep kids who clash apart.

I think the solution is that you have Advanced Math and Advanced LA in every school. Maybe it is Advanced Math and Science and Advanced LA and Social Studies since there are overlapping skill sets in the classes. Allow kids to move classes based on their areas of strength. Since many schoolshave 3 or more classrooms for each grade, you should be able to keep classes balanced in size and skill set. It would allow more kids to be challenged in their areas of strength. For even larger schools you would end up with 2 advanced classrooms for each of the areas.

The fluidity would be good for all kids and you wouldn’t have to worry about the cohort issues. You could also adjust the kids in each group annually so that kids who start to advance later in ES. It would also allow kids who were on the cusp and are struggling to be moved back into a group that works for them. You also remove the designation and hence the competitive aspect of LIV, that is ridiculous. LIII goes away, since there is Advanced LA, which allows the AART to do more with the LII type kids in K-2 and to provide support for the truly gifted kids who need more then Advanced Math or LA provides.

And you get rid of the Centers and busses and relieve over crowding at some of the Center schools.

+100
I've been wishing they would do something like this for years.
DP

This was how my podunk ES did it in the 80's in of those open concept schools. And by golly it worked.

But this is tracking which is deemed Inequitable. There should be some sort of testing to determine who gets what but my suspicion is that it will be ignored. Fcps has already called out the low numbers of POC and low income in AAP and the goal is to even it out.

DP. Isn't AAP simply tracking as well - but on a much greater scale? In fact, sorting very young kids into two groups at age 7 is the very definition of tracking. Flexible grouping would allow ALL children to progress at the pace that is right for them - moving up when ready, moving down when the work is too challenging. AAP - and especially center schools - are blatant segregation.

Segregation and tracking are two different words.

And unfortunately, the state of Virginia requires a gifted program and this is how FCPS implements theirs. So they have cover from your attack of tracking and segregation.

Except that it's not a "gifted" program and they very deliberately do not call it one. And it is the very definition of segregation.

FCPS is absolutely guilty of segregation, but that is accomplished by pyramid boundaries. I wouldn't fault AAP for that. If anything, AAP Centers are a temporary way out for capable kids that are stuck in hyper-segregated ES/MS zones.

BS. Our Level IV center had equal numbers of kids in AAP and in gen ed. That's not gifted or more capable kids . . . it's separating kids out for very little reason, creating division and stereotyping, and is just unnecessary

The reason is so that the low students can get the support they need without having to keep the higher kids “busy”.

No, the higher performers are routinely paired with the lower ones for reading and group projects.

No they're not, that is proven not to work and nobody does it, they send the high performers to AAP, obvs

Not all high performers make it into AAP.

+1
That's the truth. I'm always amazed at the kids who blast to the top during HS, who were never in AAP.

Why are you amazed? Two of my own GE children "blasted" to the top during HS and were not in AAP. And the one who was in AAP was "average" in high school. Once you get into high school, I think drive and determination become more important in a student's success. My two non-AAP children both did/are doing the full IB diploma. I looked up their GPAs - my oldest (GE kid) had a 4.1W GPA and graduated in the top 5% of his class. Middle, AAP kid, had a 3.7W GPA. He was probably in the middle of the class. Youngest, GE kid, currently has a 4.2W GPA and will probably graduate with a 4.3W GPA in the top 5% of the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^I am speaking from personal experience. It wasn’t an advanced class but a class only offered at the school virtually. It was a simple “Sorry, it’s filled.” They gave my kid two other completely unrelated options that would fit in his schedule. It’s about what fits in, not what you want at that point. We certainly weren’t demanding a class spot and bus transportation. Lesson learned, we are already researching other virtual options outside of FCPS for next year.

I firmly think they need to stop the transportation for AAP centers and one of mine went through AAP but stayed at the base school. There are so many other things to spend the money on.

No way they’re going to do this. It’s an equity issue. You’d basically be excluding all the kids whose parents don’t have the resources to drive them every day.

Okay. But there are centers that have every school with a Local Level 4. For example, every school that sends to Westbriar has a Local Level 4. Why should we be bussing kids when they can get a Level 4 class at their own school?

The argument is that the Center schools allow for more classrooms so that the kids can be mixed up every year, just like the Gen Ed classes are shuffled every year. It is better for socialization for kids to have a larger cohort of kids and gives room to keep kids who clash apart.

I think the solution is that you have Advanced Math and Advanced LA in every school. Maybe it is Advanced Math and Science and Advanced LA and Social Studies since there are overlapping skill sets in the classes. Allow kids to move classes based on their areas of strength. Since many schoolshave 3 or more classrooms for each grade, you should be able to keep classes balanced in size and skill set. It would allow more kids to be challenged in their areas of strength. For even larger schools you would end up with 2 advanced classrooms for each of the areas.

The fluidity would be good for all kids and you wouldn’t have to worry about the cohort issues. You could also adjust the kids in each group annually so that kids who start to advance later in ES. It would also allow kids who were on the cusp and are struggling to be moved back into a group that works for them. You also remove the designation and hence the competitive aspect of LIV, that is ridiculous. LIII goes away, since there is Advanced LA, which allows the AART to do more with the LII type kids in K-2 and to provide support for the truly gifted kids who need more then Advanced Math or LA provides.

And you get rid of the Centers and busses and relieve over crowding at some of the Center schools.

+100
I've been wishing they would do something like this for years.
DP

This was how my podunk ES did it in the 80's in of those open concept schools. And by golly it worked.

But this is tracking which is deemed Inequitable. There should be some sort of testing to determine who gets what but my suspicion is that it will be ignored. Fcps has already called out the low numbers of POC and low income in AAP and the goal is to even it out.

DP. Isn't AAP simply tracking as well - but on a much greater scale? In fact, sorting very young kids into two groups at age 7 is the very definition of tracking. Flexible grouping would allow ALL children to progress at the pace that is right for them - moving up when ready, moving down when the work is too challenging. AAP - and especially center schools - are blatant segregation.

Segregation and tracking are two different words.

And unfortunately, the state of Virginia requires a gifted program and this is how FCPS implements theirs. So they have cover from your attack of tracking and segregation.

Except that it's not a "gifted" program and they very deliberately do not call it one. And it is the very definition of segregation.

FCPS is absolutely guilty of segregation, but that is accomplished by pyramid boundaries. I wouldn't fault AAP for that. If anything, AAP Centers are a temporary way out for capable kids that are stuck in hyper-segregated ES/MS zones.

BS. Our Level IV center had equal numbers of kids in AAP and in gen ed. That's not gifted or more capable kids . . . it's separating kids out for very little reason, creating division and stereotyping, and is just unnecessary

The reason is so that the low students can get the support they need without having to keep the higher kids “busy”.

No, the higher performers are routinely paired with the lower ones for reading and group projects.

No they're not, that is proven not to work and nobody does it, they send the high performers to AAP, obvs

Not all high performers make it into AAP.

+1
That's the truth. I'm always amazed at the kids who blast to the top during HS, who were never in AAP.

I don’t get why you would be amazed. ES curriculum is set up to spiral so that concepts are consistently repeated. Part of that is because concepts build on each other and part of it is because some kids need more repetition to understand the concept. ES is the age where there seems to be the widest spread of natural skill level in school. Some kids seem to pick everything up quickly, some kids take longer. But these are foundational concepts. Once kids have that base, they can move on to higher level concepts in math and LA and Science. Even with the disparate learning process, most kids will have a solid foundation by MS and that sets the pace for HS. So the kid who took until 6th grade to really set their math foundations can excel in Algebra, Geometry and the like. The kid that struggled with reading in ES can handle AP English lit.

AAP is meant to serve the kids who pick things up quickly in ES so that those kids are challenge and engaged in school. It should help them by forcing them to work a bit more and get used to doing homework and the like so that they learn the study skills needed to succeed in MS and HS.

AAP is not a gifted and talented program. There are plenty of kids in AAP who do great in HS and others who do well but are not amazing. There are plenty of Gen Ed kids who do great in HS and others who do well but are not amazing. And there are kids who fail in MS and HS from both groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^I am speaking from personal experience. It wasn’t an advanced class but a class only offered at the school virtually. It was a simple “Sorry, it’s filled.” They gave my kid two other completely unrelated options that would fit in his schedule. It’s about what fits in, not what you want at that point. We certainly weren’t demanding a class spot and bus transportation. Lesson learned, we are already researching other virtual options outside of FCPS for next year.

I firmly think they need to stop the transportation for AAP centers and one of mine went through AAP but stayed at the base school. There are so many other things to spend the money on.

No way they’re going to do this. It’s an equity issue. You’d basically be excluding all the kids whose parents don’t have the resources to drive them every day.

Okay. But there are centers that have every school with a Local Level 4. For example, every school that sends to Westbriar has a Local Level 4. Why should we be bussing kids when they can get a Level 4 class at their own school?

The argument is that the Center schools allow for more classrooms so that the kids can be mixed up every year, just like the Gen Ed classes are shuffled every year. It is better for socialization for kids to have a larger cohort of kids and gives room to keep kids who clash apart.

I think the solution is that you have Advanced Math and Advanced LA in every school. Maybe it is Advanced Math and Science and Advanced LA and Social Studies since there are overlapping skill sets in the classes. Allow kids to move classes based on their areas of strength. Since many schoolshave 3 or more classrooms for each grade, you should be able to keep classes balanced in size and skill set. It would allow more kids to be challenged in their areas of strength. For even larger schools you would end up with 2 advanced classrooms for each of the areas.

The fluidity would be good for all kids and you wouldn’t have to worry about the cohort issues. You could also adjust the kids in each group annually so that kids who start to advance later in ES. It would also allow kids who were on the cusp and are struggling to be moved back into a group that works for them. You also remove the designation and hence the competitive aspect of LIV, that is ridiculous. LIII goes away, since there is Advanced LA, which allows the AART to do more with the LII type kids in K-2 and to provide support for the truly gifted kids who need more then Advanced Math or LA provides.

And you get rid of the Centers and busses and relieve over crowding at some of the Center schools.

+100
I've been wishing they would do something like this for years.
DP

This was how my podunk ES did it in the 80's in of those open concept schools. And by golly it worked.

But this is tracking which is deemed Inequitable. There should be some sort of testing to determine who gets what but my suspicion is that it will be ignored. Fcps has already called out the low numbers of POC and low income in AAP and the goal is to even it out.

DP. Isn't AAP simply tracking as well - but on a much greater scale? In fact, sorting very young kids into two groups at age 7 is the very definition of tracking. Flexible grouping would allow ALL children to progress at the pace that is right for them - moving up when ready, moving down when the work is too challenging. AAP - and especially center schools - are blatant segregation.

Segregation and tracking are two different words.

And unfortunately, the state of Virginia requires a gifted program and this is how FCPS implements theirs. So they have cover from your attack of tracking and segregation.

Except that it's not a "gifted" program and they very deliberately do not call it one. And it is the very definition of segregation.

FCPS is absolutely guilty of segregation, but that is accomplished by pyramid boundaries. I wouldn't fault AAP for that. If anything, AAP Centers are a temporary way out for capable kids that are stuck in hyper-segregated ES/MS zones.

BS. Our Level IV center had equal numbers of kids in AAP and in gen ed. That's not gifted or more capable kids . . . it's separating kids out for very little reason, creating division and stereotyping, and is just unnecessary

The reason is so that the low students can get the support they need without having to keep the higher kids “busy”.

No, the higher performers are routinely paired with the lower ones for reading and group projects.

No they're not, that is proven not to work and nobody does it, they send the high performers to AAP, obvs

Not all high performers make it into AAP.

+1
That's the truth. I'm always amazed at the kids who blast to the top during HS, who were never in AAP.

I don’t get why you would be amazed. ES curriculum is set up to spiral so that concepts are consistently repeated. Part of that is because concepts build on each other and part of it is because some kids need more repetition to understand the concept. ES is the age where there seems to be the widest spread of natural skill level in school. Some kids seem to pick everything up quickly, some kids take longer. But these are foundational concepts. Once kids have that base, they can move on to higher level concepts in math and LA and Science. Even with the disparate learning process, most kids will have a solid foundation by MS and that sets the pace for HS. So the kid who took until 6th grade to really set their math foundations can excel in Algebra, Geometry and the like. The kid that struggled with reading in ES can handle AP English lit.

AAP is meant to serve the kids who pick things up quickly in ES so that those kids are challenge and engaged in school. It should help them by forcing them to work a bit more and get used to doing homework and the like so that they learn the study skills needed to succeed in MS and HS.

AAP is not a gifted and talented program. There are plenty of kids in AAP who do great in HS and others who do well but are not amazing. There are plenty of Gen Ed kids who do great in HS and others who do well but are not amazing. And there are kids who fail in MS and HS from both groups.

This. For many bright kids in AAP they don’t need to work hard to do well. Once they move up they struggle when things are no longer easy and they need to work to understand concepts and do well. That is why I hate standard based grading in ES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^I am speaking from personal experience. It wasn’t an advanced class but a class only offered at the school virtually. It was a simple “Sorry, it’s filled.” They gave my kid two other completely unrelated options that would fit in his schedule. It’s about what fits in, not what you want at that point. We certainly weren’t demanding a class spot and bus transportation. Lesson learned, we are already researching other virtual options outside of FCPS for next year.

I firmly think they need to stop the transportation for AAP centers and one of mine went through AAP but stayed at the base school. There are so many other things to spend the money on.

No way they’re going to do this. It’s an equity issue. You’d basically be excluding all the kids whose parents don’t have the resources to drive them every day.

Okay. But there are centers that have every school with a Local Level 4. For example, every school that sends to Westbriar has a Local Level 4. Why should we be bussing kids when they can get a Level 4 class at their own school?

The argument is that the Center schools allow for more classrooms so that the kids can be mixed up every year, just like the Gen Ed classes are shuffled every year. It is better for socialization for kids to have a larger cohort of kids and gives room to keep kids who clash apart.

I think the solution is that you have Advanced Math and Advanced LA in every school. Maybe it is Advanced Math and Science and Advanced LA and Social Studies since there are overlapping skill sets in the classes. Allow kids to move classes based on their areas of strength. Since many schoolshave 3 or more classrooms for each grade, you should be able to keep classes balanced in size and skill set. It would allow more kids to be challenged in their areas of strength. For even larger schools you would end up with 2 advanced classrooms for each of the areas.

The fluidity would be good for all kids and you wouldn’t have to worry about the cohort issues. You could also adjust the kids in each group annually so that kids who start to advance later in ES. It would also allow kids who were on the cusp and are struggling to be moved back into a group that works for them. You also remove the designation and hence the competitive aspect of LIV, that is ridiculous. LIII goes away, since there is Advanced LA, which allows the AART to do more with the LII type kids in K-2 and to provide support for the truly gifted kids who need more then Advanced Math or LA provides.

And you get rid of the Centers and busses and relieve over crowding at some of the Center schools.

+100
I've been wishing they would do something like this for years.
DP

This was how my podunk ES did it in the 80's in of those open concept schools. And by golly it worked.

But this is tracking which is deemed Inequitable. There should be some sort of testing to determine who gets what but my suspicion is that it will be ignored. Fcps has already called out the low numbers of POC and low income in AAP and the goal is to even it out.

DP. Isn't AAP simply tracking as well - but on a much greater scale? In fact, sorting very young kids into two groups at age 7 is the very definition of tracking. Flexible grouping would allow ALL children to progress at the pace that is right for them - moving up when ready, moving down when the work is too challenging. AAP - and especially center schools - are blatant segregation.

Segregation and tracking are two different words.

And unfortunately, the state of Virginia requires a gifted program and this is how FCPS implements theirs. So they have cover from your attack of tracking and segregation.

Except that it's not a "gifted" program and they very deliberately do not call it one. And it is the very definition of segregation.

FCPS is absolutely guilty of segregation, but that is accomplished by pyramid boundaries. I wouldn't fault AAP for that. If anything, AAP Centers are a temporary way out for capable kids that are stuck in hyper-segregated ES/MS zones.

BS. Our Level IV center had equal numbers of kids in AAP and in gen ed. That's not gifted or more capable kids . . . it's separating kids out for very little reason, creating division and stereotyping, and is just unnecessary

The reason is so that the low students can get the support they need without having to keep the higher kids “busy”.

No, the higher performers are routinely paired with the lower ones for reading and group projects.

No they're not, that is proven not to work and nobody does it, they send the high performers to AAP, obvs

Not all high performers make it into AAP.

+1
That's the truth. I'm always amazed at the kids who blast to the top during HS, who were never in AAP.

Why are you amazed? Two of my own GE children "blasted" to the top during HS and were not in AAP. And the one who was in AAP was "average" in high school. Once you get into high school, I think drive and determination become more important in a student's success. My two non-AAP children both did/are doing the full IB diploma. I looked up their GPAs - my oldest (GE kid) had a 4.1W GPA and graduated in the top 5% of his class. Middle, AAP kid, had a 3.7W GPA. He was probably in the middle of the class. Youngest, GE kid, currently has a 4.2W GPA and will probably graduate with a 4.3W GPA in the top 5% of the class.

PP here. I merely meant that I was "amazed" these exceptional kids weren't identified for AAP earlier. My kids were also in GE, but top of their HS classes. My point was only that sorting kids into "AAP" or "GE" at a very early age isn't doing anyone any favors. I'm all for flexible groupings, as another poster said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^I am speaking from personal experience. It wasn’t an advanced class but a class only offered at the school virtually. It was a simple “Sorry, it’s filled.” They gave my kid two other completely unrelated options that would fit in his schedule. It’s about what fits in, not what you want at that point. We certainly weren’t demanding a class spot and bus transportation. Lesson learned, we are already researching other virtual options outside of FCPS for next year.

I firmly think they need to stop the transportation for AAP centers and one of mine went through AAP but stayed at the base school. There are so many other things to spend the money on.

No way they’re going to do this. It’s an equity issue. You’d basically be excluding all the kids whose parents don’t have the resources to drive them every day.

Okay. But there are centers that have every school with a Local Level 4. For example, every school that sends to Westbriar has a Local Level 4. Why should we be bussing kids when they can get a Level 4 class at their own school?

The argument is that the Center schools allow for more classrooms so that the kids can be mixed up every year, just like the Gen Ed classes are shuffled every year. It is better for socialization for kids to have a larger cohort of kids and gives room to keep kids who clash apart.

I think the solution is that you have Advanced Math and Advanced LA in every school. Maybe it is Advanced Math and Science and Advanced LA and Social Studies since there are overlapping skill sets in the classes. Allow kids to move classes based on their areas of strength. Since many schoolshave 3 or more classrooms for each grade, you should be able to keep classes balanced in size and skill set. It would allow more kids to be challenged in their areas of strength. For even larger schools you would end up with 2 advanced classrooms for each of the areas.

The fluidity would be good for all kids and you wouldn’t have to worry about the cohort issues. You could also adjust the kids in each group annually so that kids who start to advance later in ES. It would also allow kids who were on the cusp and are struggling to be moved back into a group that works for them. You also remove the designation and hence the competitive aspect of LIV, that is ridiculous. LIII goes away, since there is Advanced LA, which allows the AART to do more with the LII type kids in K-2 and to provide support for the truly gifted kids who need more then Advanced Math or LA provides.

And you get rid of the Centers and busses and relieve over crowding at some of the Center schools.

+100
I've been wishing they would do something like this for years.
DP

This was how my podunk ES did it in the 80's in of those open concept schools. And by golly it worked.

But this is tracking which is deemed Inequitable. There should be some sort of testing to determine who gets what but my suspicion is that it will be ignored. Fcps has already called out the low numbers of POC and low income in AAP and the goal is to even it out.

DP. Isn't AAP simply tracking as well - but on a much greater scale? In fact, sorting very young kids into two groups at age 7 is the very definition of tracking. Flexible grouping would allow ALL children to progress at the pace that is right for them - moving up when ready, moving down when the work is too challenging. AAP - and especially center schools - are blatant segregation.

Segregation and tracking are two different words.

And unfortunately, the state of Virginia requires a gifted program and this is how FCPS implements theirs. So they have cover from your attack of tracking and segregation.

Except that it's not a "gifted" program and they very deliberately do not call it one. And it is the very definition of segregation.

FCPS is absolutely guilty of segregation, but that is accomplished by pyramid boundaries. I wouldn't fault AAP for that. If anything, AAP Centers are a temporary way out for capable kids that are stuck in hyper-segregated ES/MS zones.

BS. Our Level IV center had equal numbers of kids in AAP and in gen ed. That's not gifted or more capable kids . . . it's separating kids out for very little reason, creating division and stereotyping, and is just unnecessary

The reason is so that the low students can get the support they need without having to keep the higher kids “busy”.

No, the higher performers are routinely paired with the lower ones for reading and group projects.

No they're not, that is proven not to work and nobody does it, they send the high performers to AAP, obvs

Not all high performers make it into AAP.

+1
That's the truth. I'm always amazed at the kids who blast to the top during HS, who were never in AAP.

I don’t get why you would be amazed. ES curriculum is set up to spiral so that concepts are consistently repeated. Part of that is because concepts build on each other and part of it is because some kids need more repetition to understand the concept. ES is the age where there seems to be the widest spread of natural skill level in school. Some kids seem to pick everything up quickly, some kids take longer. But these are foundational concepts. Once kids have that base, they can move on to higher level concepts in math and LA and Science. Even with the disparate learning process, most kids will have a solid foundation by MS and that sets the pace for HS. So the kid who took until 6th grade to really set their math foundations can excel in Algebra, Geometry and the like. The kid that struggled with reading in ES can handle AP English lit.

AAP is meant to serve the kids who pick things up quickly in ES so that those kids are challenge and engaged in school. It should help them by forcing them to work a bit more and get used to doing homework and the like so that they learn the study skills needed to succeed in MS and HS.

AAP is not a gifted and talented program. There are plenty of kids in AAP who do great in HS and others who do well but are not amazing. There are plenty of Gen Ed kids who do great in HS and others who do well but are not amazing. And there are kids who fail in MS and HS from both groups.

It really isn't. Like truthfully my kids are bright but they are not geniuses (based on testing). They both do great in AAP advanced math but are not advanced in AoPS or RSM type places. I remember when I was growing up GT had fewer kids and at least in MS, you could be placed in GT for certain classes and not others.

[Anonymous]

FCPS needs to remove AAP and bring back gifted and talented. My daughter is bored out of her mind with the average kids in AAP. She says they are still doing baby math and reading on grade level books when she is years ahead of them. It's such a waste.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS needs to remove AAP and bring back gifted and talented. My daughter is bored out of her mind with the average kids in AAP. She says they are still doing baby math and reading on grade level books when she is years ahead of them. It's such a waste.

Well that is a teacher problem. A good teacher will be offering enrichment to the higher kids.

[Anonymous]

Cannot believe there are so many posts on this shit!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^I am speaking from personal experience. It wasn’t an advanced class but a class only offered at the school virtually. It was a simple “Sorry, it’s filled.” They gave my kid two other completely unrelated options that would fit in his schedule. It’s about what fits in, not what you want at that point. We certainly weren’t demanding a class spot and bus transportation. Lesson learned, we are already researching other virtual options outside of FCPS for next year.

I firmly think they need to stop the transportation for AAP centers and one of mine went through AAP but stayed at the base school. There are so many other things to spend the money on.

No way they’re going to do this. It’s an equity issue. You’d basically be excluding all the kids whose parents don’t have the resources to drive them every day.

Okay. But there are centers that have every school with a Local Level 4. For example, every school that sends to Westbriar has a Local Level 4. Why should we be bussing kids when they can get a Level 4 class at their own school?

The argument is that the Center schools allow for more classrooms so that the kids can be mixed up every year, just like the Gen Ed classes are shuffled every year. It is better for socialization for kids to have a larger cohort of kids and gives room to keep kids who clash apart.

I think the solution is that you have Advanced Math and Advanced LA in every school. Maybe it is Advanced Math and Science and Advanced LA and Social Studies since there are overlapping skill sets in the classes. Allow kids to move classes based on their areas of strength. Since many schoolshave 3 or more classrooms for each grade, you should be able to keep classes balanced in size and skill set. It would allow more kids to be challenged in their areas of strength. For even larger schools you would end up with 2 advanced classrooms for each of the areas.

The fluidity would be good for all kids and you wouldn’t have to worry about the cohort issues. You could also adjust the kids in each group annually so that kids who start to advance later in ES. It would also allow kids who were on the cusp and are struggling to be moved back into a group that works for them. You also remove the designation and hence the competitive aspect of LIV, that is ridiculous. LIII goes away, since there is Advanced LA, which allows the AART to do more with the LII type kids in K-2 and to provide support for the truly gifted kids who need more then Advanced Math or LA provides.

And you get rid of the Centers and busses and relieve over crowding at some of the Center schools.

+100
I've been wishing they would do something like this for years.
DP

This was how my podunk ES did it in the 80's in of those open concept schools. And by golly it worked.

But this is tracking which is deemed Inequitable. There should be some sort of testing to determine who gets what but my suspicion is that it will be ignored. Fcps has already called out the low numbers of POC and low income in AAP and the goal is to even it out.

DP. Isn't AAP simply tracking as well - but on a much greater scale? In fact, sorting very young kids into two groups at age 7 is the very definition of tracking. Flexible grouping would allow ALL children to progress at the pace that is right for them - moving up when ready, moving down when the work is too challenging. AAP - and especially center schools - are blatant segregation.

Segregation and tracking are two different words.

And unfortunately, the state of Virginia requires a gifted program and this is how FCPS implements theirs. So they have cover from your attack of tracking and segregation.

Except that it's not a "gifted" program and they very deliberately do not call it one. And it is the very definition of segregation.

FCPS is absolutely guilty of segregation, but that is accomplished by pyramid boundaries. I wouldn't fault AAP for that. If anything, AAP Centers are a temporary way out for capable kids that are stuck in hyper-segregated ES/MS zones.

BS. Our Level IV center had equal numbers of kids in AAP and in gen ed. That's not gifted or more capable kids . . . it's separating kids out for very little reason, creating division and stereotyping, and is just unnecessary

I can assure you that the kids in Level IV aren't there for "very little reason." They are the higher-performers who have proven that they can handle a faster, more advanced workload. If your kid can't, they can't, and there's nothing wrong with it. The problem with "creating division" comes from parent responses, not kid perceptions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^I am speaking from personal experience. It wasn’t an advanced class but a class only offered at the school virtually. It was a simple “Sorry, it’s filled.” They gave my kid two other completely unrelated options that would fit in his schedule. It’s about what fits in, not what you want at that point. We certainly weren’t demanding a class spot and bus transportation. Lesson learned, we are already researching other virtual options outside of FCPS for next year.

I firmly think they need to stop the transportation for AAP centers and one of mine went through AAP but stayed at the base school. There are so many other things to spend the money on.

No way they’re going to do this. It’s an equity issue. You’d basically be excluding all the kids whose parents don’t have the resources to drive them every day.

Okay. But there are centers that have every school with a Local Level 4. For example, every school that sends to Westbriar has a Local Level 4. Why should we be bussing kids when they can get a Level 4 class at their own school?

The argument is that the Center schools allow for more classrooms so that the kids can be mixed up every year, just like the Gen Ed classes are shuffled every year. It is better for socialization for kids to have a larger cohort of kids and gives room to keep kids who clash apart.

I think the solution is that you have Advanced Math and Advanced LA in every school. Maybe it is Advanced Math and Science and Advanced LA and Social Studies since there are overlapping skill sets in the classes. Allow kids to move classes based on their areas of strength. Since many schoolshave 3 or more classrooms for each grade, you should be able to keep classes balanced in size and skill set. It would allow more kids to be challenged in their areas of strength. For even larger schools you would end up with 2 advanced classrooms for each of the areas.

The fluidity would be good for all kids and you wouldn’t have to worry about the cohort issues. You could also adjust the kids in each group annually so that kids who start to advance later in ES. It would also allow kids who were on the cusp and are struggling to be moved back into a group that works for them. You also remove the designation and hence the competitive aspect of LIV, that is ridiculous. LIII goes away, since there is Advanced LA, which allows the AART to do more with the LII type kids in K-2 and to provide support for the truly gifted kids who need more then Advanced Math or LA provides.

And you get rid of the Centers and busses and relieve over crowding at some of the Center schools.

+100
I've been wishing they would do something like this for years.
DP

This was how my podunk ES did it in the 80's in of those open concept schools. And by golly it worked.

But this is tracking which is deemed Inequitable. There should be some sort of testing to determine who gets what but my suspicion is that it will be ignored. Fcps has already called out the low numbers of POC and low income in AAP and the goal is to even it out.

DP. Isn't AAP simply tracking as well - but on a much greater scale? In fact, sorting very young kids into two groups at age 7 is the very definition of tracking. Flexible grouping would allow ALL children to progress at the pace that is right for them - moving up when ready, moving down when the work is too challenging. AAP - and especially center schools - are blatant segregation.

Segregation and tracking are two different words.

And unfortunately, the state of Virginia requires a gifted program and this is how FCPS implements theirs. So they have cover from your attack of tracking and segregation.

Except that it's not a "gifted" program and they very deliberately do not call it one. And it is the very definition of segregation.

FCPS is absolutely guilty of segregation, but that is accomplished by pyramid boundaries. I wouldn't fault AAP for that. If anything, AAP Centers are a temporary way out for capable kids that are stuck in hyper-segregated ES/MS zones.

BS. Our Level IV center had equal numbers of kids in AAP and in gen ed. That's not gifted or more capable kids . . . it's separating kids out for very little reason, creating division and stereotyping, and is just unnecessary

I can assure you that the kids in Level IV aren't there for "very little reason." They are the higher-performers who have proven that they can handle a faster, more advanced workload. If your kid can't, they can't, and there's nothing wrong with it. The problem with "creating division" comes from parent responses, not kid perceptions.

DP. The problem with creating division comes from BOTH parent and kid perceptions. It's absurd. I truly don't think most AAP parents realize that the vast majority of AAP kids - including their own - are identical to the vast majority of GE kids. There is a HUGE overlap, and there shouldn't be. AAP should revert back to being an actual GT program, for kids who are *actually* gifted. The system as it currently exists is simply a bunch of Sneetches, some with yellow bellies, some without, and no real rhyme or reason for 99% of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^I am speaking from personal experience. It wasn’t an advanced class but a class only offered at the school virtually. It was a simple “Sorry, it’s filled.” They gave my kid two other completely unrelated options that would fit in his schedule. It’s about what fits in, not what you want at that point. We certainly weren’t demanding a class spot and bus transportation. Lesson learned, we are already researching other virtual options outside of FCPS for next year.

I firmly think they need to stop the transportation for AAP centers and one of mine went through AAP but stayed at the base school. There are so many other things to spend the money on.

No way they’re going to do this. It’s an equity issue. You’d basically be excluding all the kids whose parents don’t have the resources to drive them every day.

Okay. But there are centers that have every school with a Local Level 4. For example, every school that sends to Westbriar has a Local Level 4. Why should we be bussing kids when they can get a Level 4 class at their own school?

The argument is that the Center schools allow for more classrooms so that the kids can be mixed up every year, just like the Gen Ed classes are shuffled every year. It is better for socialization for kids to have a larger cohort of kids and gives room to keep kids who clash apart.

I think the solution is that you have Advanced Math and Advanced LA in every school. Maybe it is Advanced Math and Science and Advanced LA and Social Studies since there are overlapping skill sets in the classes. Allow kids to move classes based on their areas of strength. Since many schoolshave 3 or more classrooms for each grade, you should be able to keep classes balanced in size and skill set. It would allow more kids to be challenged in their areas of strength. For even larger schools you would end up with 2 advanced classrooms for each of the areas.

The fluidity would be good for all kids and you wouldn’t have to worry about the cohort issues. You could also adjust the kids in each group annually so that kids who start to advance later in ES. It would also allow kids who were on the cusp and are struggling to be moved back into a group that works for them. You also remove the designation and hence the competitive aspect of LIV, that is ridiculous. LIII goes away, since there is Advanced LA, which allows the AART to do more with the LII type kids in K-2 and to provide support for the truly gifted kids who need more then Advanced Math or LA provides.

And you get rid of the Centers and busses and relieve over crowding at some of the Center schools.

+100
I've been wishing they would do something like this for years.
DP

This was how my podunk ES did it in the 80's in of those open concept schools. And by golly it worked.

But this is tracking which is deemed Inequitable. There should be some sort of testing to determine who gets what but my suspicion is that it will be ignored. Fcps has already called out the low numbers of POC and low income in AAP and the goal is to even it out.

DP. Isn't AAP simply tracking as well - but on a much greater scale? In fact, sorting very young kids into two groups at age 7 is the very definition of tracking. Flexible grouping would allow ALL children to progress at the pace that is right for them - moving up when ready, moving down when the work is too challenging. AAP - and especially center schools - are blatant segregation.

Segregation and tracking are two different words.

And unfortunately, the state of Virginia requires a gifted program and this is how FCPS implements theirs. So they have cover from your attack of tracking and segregation.

Except that it's not a "gifted" program and they very deliberately do not call it one. And it is the very definition of segregation.

FCPS is absolutely guilty of segregation, but that is accomplished by pyramid boundaries. I wouldn't fault AAP for that. If anything, AAP Centers are a temporary way out for capable kids that are stuck in hyper-segregated ES/MS zones.

BS. Our Level IV center had equal numbers of kids in AAP and in gen ed. That's not gifted or more capable kids . . . it's separating kids out for very little reason, creating division and stereotyping, and is just unnecessary

I can assure you that the kids in Level IV aren't there for "very little reason." They are the higher-performers who have proven that they can handle a faster, more advanced workload. If your kid can't, they can't, and there's nothing wrong with it. The problem with "creating division" comes from parent responses, not kid perceptions.

And I can assure you that is the case. I have a very good friend who is an AAP teacher and even she agrees that there is very little reason for the separation. Most of those kids are in b/c of parents appealing, spending the money getting extra testing, etc. And I can also assure you the "gen ed" kids at our school DEFINITELY perceive the difference. And the non-AAP ones excelling in HS have def made comments about the fact that they are doing better than lots of AAP kids - I've heard it more than once. Maybe a bit of schadenfreude but . . . . I get it. They were treated like dumb "Gen Pop" miscreants all through ES and they didn't need to be.