The difference btw the AAP class and the General Ed class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is a joke. At this point, we all know it. FCPS should either return to a very small GT program or have flexible groupings for all. Or both.

I teach Gen Ed and already do flexible groupings. Adding the AAP kids back in would make my 6 reading groups possibly jump to 8. Meaning less time for everyone. How does that make sense?

How do you have 6 reading group levels? Even in AAP, the teachers capped the kids at one year above grade level materials. To have 6 levels, you would need 1 year above grade level through 4 years below grade level. Adding AAP kids would just add kids to your 1 year above grade level group (and sadly, to your on grade level and one year below grade level groups). If classes were still maintained at around 25 kids, you'd end up with fewer kids who need extensive support, which should make teaching much easier.

In 6th grade we have kids reading at every level K-8.

In grades 4-6 you can have a ton of groups!

Wow. Kids reading at a K-3rd grade level don’t belong in a 6th grade classroom. They wouldn’t be able to understand any of the science or social studies materials, and they’re too far behind for the classroom teacher to handle without shortchanging everyone else in the class.

These kids tend to be ESOL and SPED students.

At least for the ESOL students, they're not getting anything out of sitting in an upper ES classroom when they have such little understanding of English. They'd be much better served in a special program, and the regular classroom would be much better served if the teacher didn't have to devote so much time to the kids who are so far behind.

But neither of those 2 things happen in public education, so….

In middle and high school Level 1 and 2 ESOl have specialized classes and level 3 and 4 are in team taught. Many low SPED students go into self contained classes with some going into team taught. So secondary does have specialized classes.

[Anonymous]

It looks like the legislature may solve the disruptive student problem

https://wjla.com/amp/news/crisis-in-the-classrooms/virginia-school-discipline-bill-disability-civil-rights-advocates-autistism-adhd-neurodivergent-mental-health-issues-3-strikes-youre-out-house-bill-1461-virginia-department-of-education-jennifer-litton-tidd-bill-wiley-and-buddy-fowler-jr

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It looks like the legislature may solve the disruptive student problem

https://wjla.com/amp/news/crisis-in-the-classrooms/virginia-school-discipline-bill-disability-civil-rights-advocates-autistism-adhd-neurodivergent-mental-health-issues-3-strikes-youre-out-house-bill-1461-virginia-department-of-education-jennifer-litton-tidd-bill-wiley-and-buddy-fowler-jr

OMG. The people railing against this bill are absurd. One parent said his kid had been secluded 745 times. If your kid has behavioral issues that severe, they do not belong in a mainstream classroom. Why on earth should all the other kids be subjected to that kind of disruption? I hope this bill passes and wishes it had been implemented long ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is a joke. At this point, we all know it. FCPS should either return to a very small GT program or have flexible groupings for all. Or both.

I teach Gen Ed and already do flexible groupings. Adding the AAP kids back in would make my 6 reading groups possibly jump to 8. Meaning less time for everyone. How does that make sense?

How do you have 6 reading group levels? Even in AAP, the teachers capped the kids at one year above grade level materials. To have 6 levels, you would need 1 year above grade level through 4 years below grade level. Adding AAP kids would just add kids to your 1 year above grade level group (and sadly, to your on grade level and one year below grade level groups). If classes were still maintained at around 25 kids, you'd end up with fewer kids who need extensive support, which should make teaching much easier.

In 6th grade we have kids reading at every level K-8.

In grades 4-6 you can have a ton of groups!

Wow. Kids reading at a K-3rd grade level don’t belong in a 6th grade classroom. They wouldn’t be able to understand any of the science or social studies materials, and they’re too far behind for the classroom teacher to handle without shortchanging everyone else in the class.

Welcome to today's classrooms, which is why basically every teacher will tell you pulling AAP kids back into a gen ed classroom and calling it a cluster model is a terrible idea.

You're ignoring the suggestion in bold. Having a very small and VERY selective GT program would keep the highest achievers separate. That leaves the rest, the vast majority of whom are very similar. The existing flexible groupings could remain, as the really advanced kids would not be mixed back in.

But now additional high achievers don’t get any attention because the teacher still has to help the 8-10 kids that are low. All of the data we collect (and admin) tells us to help those students with more frequent groups and 1:1 attention. Leaving those additional high-achievers to silent read and go on Lexia and ST Math.

I'm the PP with the DD in gen ed who was always a year ahead in reading and got perfect scores on the SOLs. I also have another kid who attended the center. In 4th grade, the gen ed title I program had kids reading from K-5th* grade level. In AAP 4th grade, my kid's class had kids reading from 3rd-5th* grade level. Neither the gen ed program nor the AAP one tested kids beyond one year above grade level, nor did they teach groups more than one year above grade level.

Yes, the best thing would be to have all of the kids reading one year above in a separate program. This isn't happening though. The gen ed teacher needed to provide reading groups for kids reading a year above grade level. Meanwhile, the AAP teacher needed groups spanning below grade level through above. Most of the AAP kids could have been folded back into the gen ed program without adding any burden to the gen ed teacher, as she was already providing 3rd-5th grade reading groups.

In the last 6 years, we have been directed to create reading groups where the students are at, so in 4th grade that was often groups from 1-5. Your school is doing something different than many, many schools in FCPS. How can you have a 3rd grade reading group for kids with 50-80 sight words? It makes no sense.

It's an AAP center class. No body has 50-80 sight words in 4th grade AAP. My point was that if a gen ed 4th grade classroom had groupings from K-5 and the AAP 4th grade classroom had groupings from 5-8, keeping them separate makes sense. If the gen ed classroom has groupings from K-5 and the AAP one has groupings from 3-5, there's no real reason for the separation. FCPS is doing something very wrong here, both in letting kids below grade level into AAP, keeping some kids above grade level out of AAP, and only providing groupings up to 1 year above grade level in AAP.

This ^^. It absolutely boggles the mind that there are ANY kids reading below grade level in AAP, when there are advanced readers still in GE. None of this makes any sense.

You can be a great reader and not do well on the cogats, you can be a terrible reader and do well on the quantitive and non-verbal sections

Which is why the AAP selection process is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like the legislature may solve the disruptive student problem

https://wjla.com/amp/news/crisis-in-the-classrooms/virginia-school-discipline-bill-disability-civil-rights-advocates-autistism-adhd-neurodivergent-mental-health-issues-3-strikes-youre-out-house-bill-1461-virginia-department-of-education-jennifer-litton-tidd-bill-wiley-and-buddy-fowler-jr

OMG. The people railing against this bill are absurd. One parent said his kid had been secluded 745 times. If your kid has behavioral issues that severe, they do not belong in a mainstream classroom. Why on earth should all the other kids be subjected to that kind of disruption? I hope this bill passes and wishes it had been implemented long ago.

The bill does sound a bit problematic - three strikes rules are generally too inflexible and punitive. But something needs to change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is a joke. At this point, we all know it. FCPS should either return to a very small GT program or have flexible groupings for all. Or both.

I teach Gen Ed and already do flexible groupings. Adding the AAP kids back in would make my 6 reading groups possibly jump to 8. Meaning less time for everyone. How does that make sense?

How do you have 6 reading group levels? Even in AAP, the teachers capped the kids at one year above grade level materials. To have 6 levels, you would need 1 year above grade level through 4 years below grade level. Adding AAP kids would just add kids to your 1 year above grade level group (and sadly, to your on grade level and one year below grade level groups). If classes were still maintained at around 25 kids, you'd end up with fewer kids who need extensive support, which should make teaching much easier.

In 6th grade we have kids reading at every level K-8.

In grades 4-6 you can have a ton of groups!

Wow. Kids reading at a K-3rd grade level don’t belong in a 6th grade classroom. They wouldn’t be able to understand any of the science or social studies materials, and they’re too far behind for the classroom teacher to handle without shortchanging everyone else in the class.

Welcome to today's classrooms, which is why basically every teacher will tell you pulling AAP kids back into a gen ed classroom and calling it a cluster model is a terrible idea.

You're ignoring the suggestion in bold. Having a very small and VERY selective GT program would keep the highest achievers separate. That leaves the rest, the vast majority of whom are very similar. The existing flexible groupings could remain, as the really advanced kids would not be mixed back in.

But now additional high achievers don’t get any attention because the teacher still has to help the 8-10 kids that are low. All of the data we collect (and admin) tells us to help those students with more frequent groups and 1:1 attention. Leaving those additional high-achievers to silent read and go on Lexia and ST Math.

I'm the PP with the DD in gen ed who was always a year ahead in reading and got perfect scores on the SOLs. I also have another kid who attended the center. In 4th grade, the gen ed title I program had kids reading from K-5th* grade level. In AAP 4th grade, my kid's class had kids reading from 3rd-5th* grade level. Neither the gen ed program nor the AAP one tested kids beyond one year above grade level, nor did they teach groups more than one year above grade level.

Yes, the best thing would be to have all of the kids reading one year above in a separate program. This isn't happening though. The gen ed teacher needed to provide reading groups for kids reading a year above grade level. Meanwhile, the AAP teacher needed groups spanning below grade level through above. Most of the AAP kids could have been folded back into the gen ed program without adding any burden to the gen ed teacher, as she was already providing 3rd-5th grade reading groups.

In the last 6 years, we have been directed to create reading groups where the students are at, so in 4th grade that was often groups from 1-5. Your school is doing something different than many, many schools in FCPS. How can you have a 3rd grade reading group for kids with 50-80 sight words? It makes no sense.

It's an AAP center class. No body has 50-80 sight words in 4th grade AAP. My point was that if a gen ed 4th grade classroom had groupings from K-5 and the AAP 4th grade classroom had groupings from 5-8, keeping them separate makes sense. If the gen ed classroom has groupings from K-5 and the AAP one has groupings from 3-5, there's no real reason for the separation. FCPS is doing something very wrong here, both in letting kids below grade level into AAP, keeping some kids above grade level out of AAP, and only providing groupings up to 1 year above grade level in AAP.

This ^^. It absolutely boggles the mind that there are ANY kids reading below grade level in AAP, when there are advanced readers still in GE. None of this makes any sense.

You can be a great reader and not do well on the cogats, you can be a terrible reader and do well on the quantitive and non-verbal sections

Which is why the AAP selection process is ridiculous.

How so? It would be absurd if it was based only on test scores, but as is, takes into consideration both test scores, work samples and teacher evaluation. Seems pretty well-rounded to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It looks like the legislature may solve the disruptive student problem

https://wjla.com/amp/news/crisis-in-the-classrooms/virginia-school-discipline-bill-disability-civil-rights-advocates-autistism-adhd-neurodivergent-mental-health-issues-3-strikes-youre-out-house-bill-1461-virginia-department-of-education-jennifer-litton-tidd-bill-wiley-and-buddy-fowler-jr

This doesn't specify what happens to the student after the third strike. Suspension? Expulsion? These kids still need an education, and there isn't enough space at CSS centers to absorb this. I agree it puts teachers into a very negative role.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like the legislature may solve the disruptive student problem

https://wjla.com/amp/news/crisis-in-the-classrooms/virginia-school-discipline-bill-disability-civil-rights-advocates-autistism-adhd-neurodivergent-mental-health-issues-3-strikes-youre-out-house-bill-1461-virginia-department-of-education-jennifer-litton-tidd-bill-wiley-and-buddy-fowler-jr

This doesn't specify what happens to the student after the third strike. Suspension? Expulsion? These kids still need an education, and there isn't enough space at CSS centers to absorb this. I agree it puts teachers into a very negative role.

As long as they are out of ge rooms, who cares

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like the legislature may solve the disruptive student problem

https://wjla.com/amp/news/crisis-in-the-classrooms/virginia-school-discipline-bill-disability-civil-rights-advocates-autistism-adhd-neurodivergent-mental-health-issues-3-strikes-youre-out-house-bill-1461-virginia-department-of-education-jennifer-litton-tidd-bill-wiley-and-buddy-fowler-jr

This doesn't specify what happens to the student after the third strike. Suspension? Expulsion? These kids still need an education, and there isn't enough space at CSS centers to absorb this. I agree it puts teachers into a very negative role.

As long as they are out of ge rooms, who cares

I care, because I have a heart. A lot of these kids have emotional deregulation beyond their control. They need support, not punishment.

I don't see anything in this piece that demonstrates anything beyond punishment, and I find that very sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Intelligence and work ethic are at least 50% genetic, so it’s not a surprise the smarter kids have smarter and more on top of it parents.

Low to average intelligence parents can buy cupcakes or plates whatever. Doesn't require a degree in rocket science.

A lot of this is purely socioeconomic. More money = more money + time.

\

Wut?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like the legislature may solve the disruptive student problem

https://wjla.com/amp/news/crisis-in-the-classrooms/virginia-school-discipline-bill-disability-civil-rights-advocates-autistism-adhd-neurodivergent-mental-health-issues-3-strikes-youre-out-house-bill-1461-virginia-department-of-education-jennifer-litton-tidd-bill-wiley-and-buddy-fowler-jr

This doesn't specify what happens to the student after the third strike. Suspension? Expulsion? These kids still need an education, and there isn't enough space at CSS centers to absorb this. I agree it puts teachers into a very negative role.

As long as they are out of ge rooms, who cares

I care, because I have a heart. A lot of these kids have emotional deregulation beyond their control. They need support, not punishment.

I don't see anything in this piece that demonstrates anything beyond punishment, and I find that very sad.

The punishment is ancillary. Removing them so that teachers can teach and children who are willing to learn can learn is the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like the legislature may solve the disruptive student problem

https://wjla.com/amp/news/crisis-in-the-classrooms/virginia-school-discipline-bill-disability-civil-rights-advocates-autistism-adhd-neurodivergent-mental-health-issues-3-strikes-youre-out-house-bill-1461-virginia-department-of-education-jennifer-litton-tidd-bill-wiley-and-buddy-fowler-jr

This doesn't specify what happens to the student after the third strike. Suspension? Expulsion? These kids still need an education, and there isn't enough space at CSS centers to absorb this. I agree it puts teachers into a very negative role.

As long as they are out of ge rooms, who cares

No, because they are in AP later down the road, too - guess what? No one (NO ONE) has addressed their anger issues yet.

The violence that the school systems try to sweep under the rug are a REAL problem for the other (majority) of students. The parents of those kids know the drill, and they play their kids as pawns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like the legislature may solve the disruptive student problem

https://wjla.com/amp/news/crisis-in-the-classrooms/virginia-school-discipline-bill-disability-civil-rights-advocates-autistism-adhd-neurodivergent-mental-health-issues-3-strikes-youre-out-house-bill-1461-virginia-department-of-education-jennifer-litton-tidd-bill-wiley-and-buddy-fowler-jr

This doesn't specify what happens to the student after the third strike. Suspension? Expulsion? These kids still need an education, and there isn't enough space at CSS centers to absorb this. I agree it puts teachers into a very negative role.

As long as they are out of ge rooms, who cares

I care, because I have a heart. A lot of these kids have emotional deregulation beyond their control. They need support, not punishment.

I don't see anything in this piece that demonstrates anything beyond punishment, and I find that very sad.

Kids cannot be allowed to hit their teacher, whether they can control their behavior or not. Teachers should not be subjected to physical abuse in a gen ed classroom.

- parent of two kids with SN

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like the legislature may solve the disruptive student problem

https://wjla.com/amp/news/crisis-in-the-classrooms/virginia-school-discipline-bill-disability-civil-rights-advocates-autistism-adhd-neurodivergent-mental-health-issues-3-strikes-youre-out-house-bill-1461-virginia-department-of-education-jennifer-litton-tidd-bill-wiley-and-buddy-fowler-jr

This doesn't specify what happens to the student after the third strike. Suspension? Expulsion? These kids still need an education, and there isn't enough space at CSS centers to absorb this. I agree it puts teachers into a very negative role.

As long as they are out of ge rooms, who cares

No, because they are in AP later down the road, too - guess what? No one (NO ONE) has addressed their anger issues yet.

The violence that the school systems try to sweep under the rug are a REAL problem for the other (majority) of students. The parents of those kids know the drill, and they play their kids as pawns.

They aren’t in AP if they’ve been expelled. They are at alternative schools unless their parents can afford and manage to convince a private school to take them, otherwise, there’s Bryant or Mountain View

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like the legislature may solve the disruptive student problem

https://wjla.com/amp/news/crisis-in-the-classrooms/virginia-school-discipline-bill-disability-civil-rights-advocates-autistism-adhd-neurodivergent-mental-health-issues-3-strikes-youre-out-house-bill-1461-virginia-department-of-education-jennifer-litton-tidd-bill-wiley-and-buddy-fowler-jr

This doesn't specify what happens to the student after the third strike. Suspension? Expulsion? These kids still need an education, and there isn't enough space at CSS centers to absorb this. I agree it puts teachers into a very negative role.

As long as they are out of ge rooms, who cares

I care, because I have a heart. A lot of these kids have emotional deregulation beyond their control. They need support, not punishment.

I don't see anything in this piece that demonstrates anything beyond punishment, and I find that very sad.

Kids cannot be allowed to hit their teacher, whether they can control their behavior or not. Teachers should not be subjected to physical abuse in a gen ed classroom.

- parent of two kids with SN

I don't disagree.

My question is how they define disruption. Is that the class being evacuated? A yelling kid? A toss of a pencil or a toss of a chair? It's pretty broad and impossible to consistently define.