Why are teachers and nurses underpaid?

[Anonymous]

Teachers deserve the highest salaries in our country. Teaching should be one of the hardest professions to break into so that the best and the brightest teach our children. This would solve a lot of problems. Teachers need to be valued more, and we should expect only excellence from them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Third teacher here. I was a National Merit Finalist. I also got into top law schools (I had a 172 on the LSAT), but I chose education over law because I thought the work would be more meaningful. It is, by and large, but I’ll admit that there are many days when I wish people didn’t make assumptions about my intelligence (or lack thereof) based on my profession. I think over time the field will draw fewer and fewer top students, and that’s a shame. We should be making education appealing to our top achievers, not making our top achievers second-guess themselves. This will be my last year in a school. I am exhausted and need a change.

So go to law school.

What do you think happens when we keep telling teachers to take their better opportunities? Who will be left to teach?

I’ve lost many coworkers in the last 5 years, all to better opportunities with more pay. We have openings in my department because there’s no one applying. We’re covering those classes on our planning periods, which is only going to lead to more burnout and more teachers quitting.

It's a trade off. Teaching is an entry level position. Many folks do it for a few years and then move on. Entry level positions are going to have lower salaries.

There’s nothing “entry level” about teaching. Many teachers would tell you that you don’t hit a stride until years 8 or 9. The job is demanding and it takes years to build the bag of tricks that make it easier.

As for people teaching for a few years and moving on, it’s often because they are overwhelmed by the workload and emotional toll. Burnout is HIGH in the first 5 years.

It absolutely is an entry level position. That mastery may take some time doesn't change the fact that it's entry level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think they are underpaid. Yes I think they work hard and deserve our respect but what the earn is ovoid considering the amount of days off they get over the course of a year ( teachers) compared to other jobs. I am not s nurse but do shift work similar to a nurse schedule, they’re not working every day either and depending on where they work and seniority can get cushy schedules too.

Well, at 60 hours a week during the school year and 25-30 hours a week during my unpaid summer, I definitely feel underpaid. If your reasoning for keeping teachers’ pay low is some perceived idea of days off, then consider yourself corrected. Today was a day off. I worked 8 hours prepping for next week. I’ll finish planning tomorrow, on Labor Day.

Don’t confuse “days off” with “days not working.” The only difference to me is that I can pee when I want to on weekends and during the summer.

Stop it. You aren't working that much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think they are underpaid. Yes I think they work hard and deserve our respect but what the earn is ovoid considering the amount of days off they get over the course of a year ( teachers) compared to other jobs. I am not s nurse but do shift work similar to a nurse schedule, they’re not working every day either and depending on where they work and seniority can get cushy schedules too.

Well, at 60 hours a week during the school year and 25-30 hours a week during my unpaid summer, I definitely feel underpaid. If your reasoning for keeping teachers’ pay low is some perceived idea of days off, then consider yourself corrected. Today was a day off. I worked 8 hours prepping for next week. I’ll finish planning tomorrow, on Labor Day.

Don’t confuse “days off” with “days not working.” The only difference to me is that I can pee when I want to on weekends and during the summer.

Stop it. You aren't working that much.

Guess what? Some teachers ABSOLUTELY work this much. Let’s take a look at teachers who have to grade essays. If you figure 10 minutes an essay for 140 students, that’s over 23 hours of grading for that assignment alone. The teaching doesn’t stop and the tons of other duties don’t stop, so that happens on your own time. Or… consider the teacher at an understaffed school who has to spend every free moment covering a class. ALL planning and grading has to happen at home. And summers? That’s time for curriculum revisions, additional coursework, etc.

We can ignore reality all we want, but teachers are leaving because this is what they are experiencing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Third teacher here. I was a National Merit Finalist. I also got into top law schools (I had a 172 on the LSAT), but I chose education over law because I thought the work would be more meaningful. It is, by and large, but I’ll admit that there are many days when I wish people didn’t make assumptions about my intelligence (or lack thereof) based on my profession. I think over time the field will draw fewer and fewer top students, and that’s a shame. We should be making education appealing to our top achievers, not making our top achievers second-guess themselves. This will be my last year in a school. I am exhausted and need a change.

So go to law school.

What do you think happens when we keep telling teachers to take their better opportunities? Who will be left to teach?

I’ve lost many coworkers in the last 5 years, all to better opportunities with more pay. We have openings in my department because there’s no one applying. We’re covering those classes on our planning periods, which is only going to lead to more burnout and more teachers quitting.

It's a trade off. Teaching is an entry level position. Many folks do it for a few years and then move on. Entry level positions are going to have lower salaries.

There’s nothing “entry level” about teaching. Many teachers would tell you that you don’t hit a stride until years 8 or 9. The job is demanding and it takes years to build the bag of tricks that make it easier.

As for people teaching for a few years and moving on, it’s often because they are overwhelmed by the workload and emotional toll. Burnout is HIGH in the first 5 years.

It absolutely is an entry level position. That mastery may take some time doesn't change the fact that it's entry level.

Nobody considers teaching an entry-level position. I can’t roll my eyes enough.

It’s fun to insult teachers. I get it. You’ll have to try a bit harder, though. We’re used to silliness and absurdity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Third teacher here. I was a National Merit Finalist. I also got into top law schools (I had a 172 on the LSAT), but I chose education over law because I thought the work would be more meaningful. It is, by and large, but I’ll admit that there are many days when I wish people didn’t make assumptions about my intelligence (or lack thereof) based on my profession. I think over time the field will draw fewer and fewer top students, and that’s a shame. We should be making education appealing to our top achievers, not making our top achievers second-guess themselves. This will be my last year in a school. I am exhausted and need a change.

So go to law school.

What do you think happens when we keep telling teachers to take their better opportunities? Who will be left to teach?

I’ve lost many coworkers in the last 5 years, all to better opportunities with more pay. We have openings in my department because there’s no one applying. We’re covering those classes on our planning periods, which is only going to lead to more burnout and more teachers quitting.

It's a trade off. Teaching is an entry level position. Many folks do it for a few years and then move on. Entry level positions are going to have lower salaries.

There’s nothing “entry level” about teaching. Many teachers would tell you that you don’t hit a stride until years 8 or 9. The job is demanding and it takes years to build the bag of tricks that make it easier.

As for people teaching for a few years and moving on, it’s often because they are overwhelmed by the workload and emotional toll. Burnout is HIGH in the first 5 years.

It absolutely is an entry level position. That mastery may take some time doesn't change the fact that it's entry level.

Nobody considers teaching an entry-level position. I can’t roll my eyes enough.

It’s fun to insult teachers. I get it. You’ll have to try a bit harder, though. We’re used to silliness and absurdity.

It is 100% entry level because someone with 0 teaching experience does the job.

Look your profession is screwed up because of unions.

There needs to be position differentiation and then pay differentiation

Currently it is truly laughable someone with 20 years experience has the exact same job as someone with 0 years of experience. That's why the pay is so out of whack.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Third teacher here. I was a National Merit Finalist. I also got into top law schools (I had a 172 on the LSAT), but I chose education over law because I thought the work would be more meaningful. It is, by and large, but I’ll admit that there are many days when I wish people didn’t make assumptions about my intelligence (or lack thereof) based on my profession. I think over time the field will draw fewer and fewer top students, and that’s a shame. We should be making education appealing to our top achievers, not making our top achievers second-guess themselves. This will be my last year in a school. I am exhausted and need a change.

So go to law school.

What do you think happens when we keep telling teachers to take their better opportunities? Who will be left to teach?

I’ve lost many coworkers in the last 5 years, all to better opportunities with more pay. We have openings in my department because there’s no one applying. We’re covering those classes on our planning periods, which is only going to lead to more burnout and more teachers quitting.

It's a trade off. Teaching is an entry level position. Many folks do it for a few years and then move on. Entry level positions are going to have lower salaries.

There’s nothing “entry level” about teaching. Many teachers would tell you that you don’t hit a stride until years 8 or 9. The job is demanding and it takes years to build the bag of tricks that make it easier.

As for people teaching for a few years and moving on, it’s often because they are overwhelmed by the workload and emotional toll. Burnout is HIGH in the first 5 years.

It absolutely is an entry level position. That mastery may take some time doesn't change the fact that it's entry level.

Nobody considers teaching an entry-level position. I can’t roll my eyes enough.

It’s fun to insult teachers. I get it. You’ll have to try a bit harder, though. We’re used to silliness and absurdity.

It is 100% entry level because someone with 0 teaching experience does the job.

Look your profession is screwed up because of unions.

There needs to be position differentiation and then pay differentiation

Currently it is truly laughable someone with 20 years experience has the exact same job as someone with 0 years of experience. That's why the pay is so out of whack.

m

Sigh. Okay: a NEW teacher may be “entry level.” A NEW teacher doesn’t have tenure and often has to complete additional observations. They often have mentors and additional PD sessions (depending on district). Experienced teachers do not. Hence, one does not remain “entry level” for an entire 35-year career.

You are attempting to insult teachers, but it falls flat because we are asking for EXACTLY what you wrote above: “pay differentiation,” as awkward as a phrase as that is. We want to be paid MORE considering the increased demands of this job. We are leaving in droves because we don’t have a ton of upward mobility. I find it fascinating that you try to use that as an insult, as if we are somehow behind our own low pay structure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teachers deserve the highest salaries in our country. Teaching should be one of the hardest professions to break into so that the best and the brightest teach our children. This would solve a lot of problems. Teachers need to be valued more, and we should expect only excellence from them.

This plus:
School uniforms
Consistent and high student standards and expectations
Discipline, flunking and getting kicked out of school processes
Parent codes to uphold
Sense of community

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Third teacher here. I was a National Merit Finalist. I also got into top law schools (I had a 172 on the LSAT), but I chose education over law because I thought the work would be more meaningful. It is, by and large, but I’ll admit that there are many days when I wish people didn’t make assumptions about my intelligence (or lack thereof) based on my profession. I think over time the field will draw fewer and fewer top students, and that’s a shame. We should be making education appealing to our top achievers, not making our top achievers second-guess themselves. This will be my last year in a school. I am exhausted and need a change.

So go to law school.

What do you think happens when we keep telling teachers to take their better opportunities? Who will be left to teach?

I’ve lost many coworkers in the last 5 years, all to better opportunities with more pay. We have openings in my department because there’s no one applying. We’re covering those classes on our planning periods, which is only going to lead to more burnout and more teachers quitting.

It's a trade off. Teaching is an entry level position. Many folks do it for a few years and then move on. Entry level positions are going to have lower salaries.

There’s nothing “entry level” about teaching. Many teachers would tell you that you don’t hit a stride until years 8 or 9. The job is demanding and it takes years to build the bag of tricks that make it easier.

As for people teaching for a few years and moving on, it’s often because they are overwhelmed by the workload and emotional toll. Burnout is HIGH in the first 5 years.

It absolutely is an entry level position. That mastery may take some time doesn't change the fact that it's entry level.

Nobody considers teaching an entry-level position. I can’t roll my eyes enough.

It’s fun to insult teachers. I get it. You’ll have to try a bit harder, though. We’re used to silliness and absurdity.

It is 100% entry level because someone with 0 teaching experience does the job.

Look your profession is screwed up because of unions.

There needs to be position differentiation and then pay differentiation

Currently it is truly laughable someone with 20 years experience has the exact same job as someone with 0 years of experience. That's why the pay is so out of whack.

This is stupid. What position differentiation do you want? Everyone with more than 5 or 10 years of experience becomes an administrator? Good luck with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Third teacher here. I was a National Merit Finalist. I also got into top law schools (I had a 172 on the LSAT), but I chose education over law because I thought the work would be more meaningful. It is, by and large, but I’ll admit that there are many days when I wish people didn’t make assumptions about my intelligence (or lack thereof) based on my profession. I think over time the field will draw fewer and fewer top students, and that’s a shame. We should be making education appealing to our top achievers, not making our top achievers second-guess themselves. This will be my last year in a school. I am exhausted and need a change.

So go to law school.

What do you think happens when we keep telling teachers to take their better opportunities? Who will be left to teach?

I’ve lost many coworkers in the last 5 years, all to better opportunities with more pay. We have openings in my department because there’s no one applying. We’re covering those classes on our planning periods, which is only going to lead to more burnout and more teachers quitting.

It's a trade off. Teaching is an entry level position. Many folks do it for a few years and then move on. Entry level positions are going to have lower salaries.

There’s nothing “entry level” about teaching. Many teachers would tell you that you don’t hit a stride until years 8 or 9. The job is demanding and it takes years to build the bag of tricks that make it easier.

As for people teaching for a few years and moving on, it’s often because they are overwhelmed by the workload and emotional toll. Burnout is HIGH in the first 5 years.

It absolutely is an entry level position. That mastery may take some time doesn't change the fact that it's entry level.

Nobody considers teaching an entry-level position. I can’t roll my eyes enough.

It’s fun to insult teachers. I get it. You’ll have to try a bit harder, though. We’re used to silliness and absurdity.

It is 100% entry level because someone with 0 teaching experience does the job.

Look your profession is screwed up because of unions.

There needs to be position differentiation and then pay differentiation

Currently it is truly laughable someone with 20 years experience has the exact same job as someone with 0 years of experience. That's why the pay is so out of whack.

You could say the same thing about many professions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Third teacher here. I was a National Merit Finalist. I also got into top law schools (I had a 172 on the LSAT), but I chose education over law because I thought the work would be more meaningful. It is, by and large, but I’ll admit that there are many days when I wish people didn’t make assumptions about my intelligence (or lack thereof) based on my profession. I think over time the field will draw fewer and fewer top students, and that’s a shame. We should be making education appealing to our top achievers, not making our top achievers second-guess themselves. This will be my last year in a school. I am exhausted and need a change.

So go to law school.

What do you think happens when we keep telling teachers to take their better opportunities? Who will be left to teach?

I’ve lost many coworkers in the last 5 years, all to better opportunities with more pay. We have openings in my department because there’s no one applying. We’re covering those classes on our planning periods, which is only going to lead to more burnout and more teachers quitting.

It's a trade off. Teaching is an entry level position. Many folks do it for a few years and then move on. Entry level positions are going to have lower salaries.

There’s nothing “entry level” about teaching. Many teachers would tell you that you don’t hit a stride until years 8 or 9. The job is demanding and it takes years to build the bag of tricks that make it easier.

As for people teaching for a few years and moving on, it’s often because they are overwhelmed by the workload and emotional toll. Burnout is HIGH in the first 5 years.

It absolutely is an entry level position. That mastery may take some time doesn't change the fact that it's entry level.

Nobody considers teaching an entry-level position. I can’t roll my eyes enough.

It’s fun to insult teachers. I get it. You’ll have to try a bit harder, though. We’re used to silliness and absurdity.

You're not helping your position. You can roll your eyes all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that a classroom teacher can be hired directly out of college. That means it's an entry-level position. A beat cop or a firefighter can have 20 years experience, but it doesn't change the fact that the position they're in is entry-level.

[Anonymous]

It’s all supply vs demand.

Are teachers in Mississippi underpaid at like 30k a year? Absolutely.

Is an individual teacher making 30k in Mississippi underpaid? Maybe not. If we tripled the pay to 90k it’s more likely that the 30k teacher should be out of a job as the talent pool would increase and we would hire better teachers.

So even a teacher in Virginia making 100k who “thinks” they should make 200k May not be able to keep their job if we were fair about keeping it meritocratic. Even if they keep their jobs it would likely result in the majority of their coworkers losing their jobs if we are being fair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s all supply vs demand.

Are teachers in Mississippi underpaid at like 30k a year? Absolutely.

Is an individual teacher making 30k in Mississippi underpaid? Maybe not. If we tripled the pay to 90k it’s more likely that the 30k teacher should be out of a job as the talent pool would increase and we would hire better teachers.

So even a teacher in Virginia making 100k who “thinks” they should make 200k May not be able to keep their job if we were fair about keeping it meritocratic. Even if they keep their jobs it would likely result in the majority of their coworkers losing their jobs if we are being fair.

Right, if we announced that in 8 years all new teacher will make $1M a year, what would happen? People that would be teachers under the current salary structure would be almost all replaced by more talented/skilled candidates. The teaching ranks would be filled with 4.0GPA Ivy League PHD graduates. The state school graduates with a 3.8 wouldn’t even get interviews at the toughest schools to teach let alone a suburban job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Teachers in FFX County start around $53K. That seems like a fine starting wage for a college grad. Even better considering time off in the summer.

Teachers get the summer off. They work less days a year than other professions. I get 26 days of leave a year pkus holidays. A teacher gets triple.

Your leave is paid though. For 2 months the teachers are not paid. Now, they are free to get a second job during that time to make money.

I don't think teachers are paid enough for what we expect of them though. I taught college before and that was tough enough, with just a couple hours a day and kids that wanted to be there. I can't imagine taking on a classroom of students for 6 hours every day.

The unpaid leave argument is truly one of the stupidest things I've ever heard and it doesn't make you look very smart. Whether you call your salary an annual salary or salary for the 10 months you work it's really just semantics. Everyone knows summers are time off and whether you actually get paid during it or just need to set aside some of your other paychecks doesn't change anything. The unpaid argument would only make sense if teachers were given an annualized salary that was then pro rated for the time they actually worked but it doesn't work like that.

Teacher here. I work 20-25 hour a week over the summer. Since my contract ends in July and doesn’t pick up again until late August, those are quite literally unpaid hours. Im doing curriculum writing, website creation and modification, additional trainings, etc.

The absolute language (“everyone knows”) and insults (“doesn’t make you look very smart”) are detracting from your argument, as is the inaccurate information.

Why? Why do you do these things without pay? My DW and I both teach in elementary schools. I posted earlier. Our last day was in mid-June and our next contract day was August 12. In between I did sub a few days for summer school for some pay, purely by choice to help out. That’s it.

Here's the thing - the teachers who are GREAT at their job are the ones doing that work over the summer for no pay. The ones who clock out are often the ones who are phoning it in. I wish the ones who were willing to do more were compensated for it to entice more to want to be really spectacular practitioners because the were fairly rewarded for their exceptional work. Let the ones phoning it in level out at 100k after 30 years, while the ones doing the extra work could be paid bonuses, and higher bases for their performance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Third teacher here. I was a National Merit Finalist. I also got into top law schools (I had a 172 on the LSAT), but I chose education over law because I thought the work would be more meaningful. It is, by and large, but I’ll admit that there are many days when I wish people didn’t make assumptions about my intelligence (or lack thereof) based on my profession. I think over time the field will draw fewer and fewer top students, and that’s a shame. We should be making education appealing to our top achievers, not making our top achievers second-guess themselves. This will be my last year in a school. I am exhausted and need a change.

So go to law school.

What do you think happens when we keep telling teachers to take their better opportunities? Who will be left to teach?

I’ve lost many coworkers in the last 5 years, all to better opportunities with more pay. We have openings in my department because there’s no one applying. We’re covering those classes on our planning periods, which is only going to lead to more burnout and more teachers quitting.

It's a trade off. Teaching is an entry level position. Many folks do it for a few years and then move on. Entry level positions are going to have lower salaries.

There’s nothing “entry level” about teaching. Many teachers would tell you that you don’t hit a stride until years 8 or 9. The job is demanding and it takes years to build the bag of tricks that make it easier.

As for people teaching for a few years and moving on, it’s often because they are overwhelmed by the workload and emotional toll. Burnout is HIGH in the first 5 years.

It absolutely is an entry level position. That mastery may take some time doesn't change the fact that it's entry level.

Nobody considers teaching an entry-level position. I can’t roll my eyes enough.

It’s fun to insult teachers. I get it. You’ll have to try a bit harder, though. We’re used to silliness and absurdity.

It is 100% entry level because someone with 0 teaching experience does the job.

Look your profession is screwed up because of unions.

There needs to be position differentiation and then pay differentiation

Currently it is truly laughable someone with 20 years experience has the exact same job as someone with 0 years of experience. That's why the pay is so out of whack.

Screwed up because of unions??? That's laughable. There are many reasons that the profession is crumbling and not one of them is because of a union - ESPECIALLY in Virginia.