$80k In Debt Worth It for Ivy Undergrad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP of this post:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/240/1032099.page

and I'm back with an update. For a TL;DR of the thread, feel free to read pages 1, 4, 17, and 18. But here's a short summary:

I have Asian immigrant tiger parents who pushed me for my entire life. My childhood was a miserable series of relentless drilling, pushing, and yelling until I achieved to their standards. Their tiger parenting worked, and I graduated high school in 2019 and got accepted to an Ivy League college with a significant amount of financial aid.

This college is an AWFUL fit for me. The intense, competitive, cutthroat, and pre-professional nature of the school as well as the college's notoriously extensive graduation requirements and lack of any sense of supportive, nurturing community (if you're familiar with the Ivies it's probably easy to guess which college I go to) made me miserable while I was at college. I was at my school for five semesters (Sept 2019 to December 2021) until I was forced involuntarily by my school to take a leave of absence this past January for suicidal ideation.

My parents consistently remind me of how worthless I am. This is because I am AWFUL at all STEM and it seems like every single remotely lucrative career requires lots of STEM. I know this is the excuse everyone gives, but I started out at my school as a Bio major with pre-med intentions and was quickly weeded out despite working very hard. I quickly pivoted to CS/Econ, but despite also working very hard, I had to drop my CS class because I was at risk of failing. I also ended up with a C in Intro to Econ despite studying a ton and regularly going to office hours (I know, I’m a pathetic failure). I'm currently in a humanities major that I feel a lot of shame about. I’ve thought about going to law school, but when I look at law school curriculums and what lawyers actually do, it seems incredibly boring.

To try to redeem myself, I applied to over 100 internships for Summer 2022. I landed an internship in Saas Sales at a FAANG company for this summer. I'm seven weeks into my internship, and I'm positively miserable. I am NOT suited to tech sales at all whatsoever, and I can't imagine any glimpse of joy for my future if I were to do this full-time after graduation.

To make things worse, my college emailed me last month saying that I "no longer qualify for need-based financial aid" since my parents' income went up recently. There is no way in hell that my parents can afford to pay the full $40k/semester for my three remaining semesters of college, so they want me to take out $80k in loans to help them pay for school.

I screamed at my parents because of this demand. $80k in loans, IMO, is an insane amount to take out for a bachelor's degree (even if the degree is from a very prestigious school). My parents want me to take out the $80k all in my name (they're willing to co-sign onto private loans after the FAFSA loans are maxxed out). I suggested to my parents that they should take out at least some of that $80k in their name through either Parent Plus Loans or a HELOC, but my parents refused (I understand why, since we were a pretty low/medium-income family until I got to high school).

I personally don't think it's worth it to take out $80k in loans to get a BA in the humanities from a school I despise so much that I was forced to take a leave of absence due to severe depression. My parents, being the Asian immigrants that they are, view a BA from an elite school as an invaluable asset to my future. I told my parents that I'd rather drop out and transfer to another school than take out $80k in loans from a college I wouldn't even want to continue attending even if it were free. My parents keep threatening to cut off all financial support for me (kick me out of the house, cut me off their phone plan and health insurance, etc.) if I don't take out the $80k to finish at my current school.

I wanted to get this board's opinion on this, since DCUM seems equally anti-student debt and very insistent on undergrad prestige. My plan right now is to resist my parents and (inevitably) get kicked out of their house since I don't want to take out this much in student loans. Ideally, in a few years (after lots of therapy), I'd transfer to a cheaper college I can fund myself -- I heard some of the Seven Sisters (ie: Wellesley, Mount Holyoke, Smith) have fully-funded scholarships for older transfer students.

I don't know. Everything seems so bleak and tiring. I'm in therapy right now, but therapy doesn't change my material conditions. I'm at a crossroads and my future seems awful.

If you only have three semester left,you can do it. Just take easy classes and finish. I don’t think the seven sisters schools will be the cure. There are C students from ivies that do fine. I think let go of the pressure, coast your way through, and just finish.

NP here, did you not read the part where OP has to take out $80k in loans to finish? That's hardly letting go of the pressure.

But finishing will lead to a job to pay back those loans. From my perspective I think there will be a lot less pressure when she’s done, rather than continue to have it hanging over her during a leave of absence. Just trying to help but everyone’s got their own POV.

Disagree, OP will need a very high-paying job to pay off $80k in loans (plus interest!). Having that hang over her head after graduation seems much worse IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP of this post:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/240/1032099.page

and I'm back with an update. For a TL;DR of the thread, feel free to read pages 1, 4, 17, and 18. But here's a short summary:

I have Asian immigrant tiger parents who pushed me for my entire life. My childhood was a miserable series of relentless drilling, pushing, and yelling until I achieved to their standards. Their tiger parenting worked, and I graduated high school in 2019 and got accepted to an Ivy League college with a significant amount of financial aid.

This college is an AWFUL fit for me. The intense, competitive, cutthroat, and pre-professional nature of the school as well as the college's notoriously extensive graduation requirements and lack of any sense of supportive, nurturing community (if you're familiar with the Ivies it's probably easy to guess which college I go to) made me miserable while I was at college. I was at my school for five semesters (Sept 2019 to December 2021) until I was forced involuntarily by my school to take a leave of absence this past January for suicidal ideation.

My parents consistently remind me of how worthless I am. This is because I am AWFUL at all STEM and it seems like every single remotely lucrative career requires lots of STEM. I know this is the excuse everyone gives, but I started out at my school as a Bio major with pre-med intentions and was quickly weeded out despite working very hard. I quickly pivoted to CS/Econ, but despite also working very hard, I had to drop my CS class because I was at risk of failing. I also ended up with a C in Intro to Econ despite studying a ton and regularly going to office hours (I know, I’m a pathetic failure). I'm currently in a humanities major that I feel a lot of shame about. I’ve thought about going to law school, but when I look at law school curriculums and what lawyers actually do, it seems incredibly boring.

To try to redeem myself, I applied to over 100 internships for Summer 2022. I landed an internship in Saas Sales at a FAANG company for this summer. I'm seven weeks into my internship, and I'm positively miserable. I am NOT suited to tech sales at all whatsoever, and I can't imagine any glimpse of joy for my future if I were to do this full-time after graduation.

To make things worse, my college emailed me last month saying that I "no longer qualify for need-based financial aid" since my parents' income went up recently. There is no way in hell that my parents can afford to pay the full $40k/semester for my three remaining semesters of college, so they want me to take out $80k in loans to help them pay for school.

I screamed at my parents because of this demand. $80k in loans, IMO, is an insane amount to take out for a bachelor's degree (even if the degree is from a very prestigious school). My parents want me to take out the $80k all in my name (they're willing to co-sign onto private loans after the FAFSA loans are maxxed out). I suggested to my parents that they should take out at least some of that $80k in their name through either Parent Plus Loans or a HELOC, but my parents refused (I understand why, since we were a pretty low/medium-income family until I got to high school).

I personally don't think it's worth it to take out $80k in loans to get a BA in the humanities from a school I despise so much that I was forced to take a leave of absence due to severe depression. My parents, being the Asian immigrants that they are, view a BA from an elite school as an invaluable asset to my future. I told my parents that I'd rather drop out and transfer to another school than take out $80k in loans from a college I wouldn't even want to continue attending even if it were free. My parents keep threatening to cut off all financial support for me (kick me out of the house, cut me off their phone plan and health insurance, etc.) if I don't take out the $80k to finish at my current school.

I wanted to get this board's opinion on this, since DCUM seems equally anti-student debt and very insistent on undergrad prestige. My plan right now is to resist my parents and (inevitably) get kicked out of their house since I don't want to take out this much in student loans. Ideally, in a few years (after lots of therapy), I'd transfer to a cheaper college I can fund myself -- I heard some of the Seven Sisters (ie: Wellesley, Mount Holyoke, Smith) have fully-funded scholarships for older transfer students.

I don't know. Everything seems so bleak and tiring. I'm in therapy right now, but therapy doesn't change my material conditions. I'm at a crossroads and my future seems awful.

If you only have three semester left,you can do it. Just take easy classes and finish. I don’t think the seven sisters schools will be the cure. There are C students from ivies that do fine. I think let go of the pressure, coast your way through, and just finish.

NP here, did you not read the part where OP has to take out $80k in loans to finish? That's hardly letting go of the pressure.

But finishing will lead to a job to pay back those loans. From my perspective I think there will be a lot less pressure when she’s done, rather than continue to have it hanging over her during a leave of absence. Just trying to help but everyone’s got their own POV.

Disagree, OP will need a very high-paying job to pay off $80k in loans (plus interest!). Having that hang over her head after graduation seems much worse IMO.

NP here. I think OP should either:

1. Drop out now (no prolonged leave of absence, since having the option to go back to Columbia to hang over her head seems like too much pressure and also too expensive)

2. Go back to Columbia ASAP and try your best to take the highest paying job possible out of undergrad

[Anonymous]

OP, I had the same thing happen to me (being first gen Asian, losing financial aid, mental health problems). Here is my suggestion: get through and get as independent as possible. Time I’m your twenties feels a lot slower than your thirties. Graduate, get a Roomate, be cheap, and you literally will have complete independence from your parents by 24-25. And a college Dre free, and likely most of your loans paid off, and you’ll still be able to go into publishing or whatever. Don’t let your mental health issues derail you and get your confidence back. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

OP I think 80k is not that bad.
I graduated from a no-name college in 2001 with an art degree. Art! Because I had undiagnosed depression and other issues, and that was all I could manage even though I had other gifts. That’s about 40k in today’s dollars.
My first job after graduation paid 28k. I made my minimum payments but was also saving money on the side. A few years in, I paid it off. You can do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I think 80k is not that bad.
I graduated from a no-name college in 2001 with an art degree. Art! Because I had undiagnosed depression and other issues, and that was all I could manage even though I had other gifts. That’s about 40k in today’s dollars.
My first job after graduation paid 28k. I made my minimum payments but was also saving money on the side. A few years in, I paid it off. You can do it.

My friend graduated in 2006 and did PeaceCorp and some relaxing job here and there (never more than 80k).
She paid her loans off after 12 years, meanwhile she had a great life, worked side projects with local art Museums and wrote articles for local magazines. Her Friday’s is always WFH and consist of 1 hour of real work. Get over this hump and life is quite awesome!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d tell your parents that you are going to transfer to a less prestigious school because you don’t want to take out loans. If they don’t get bragging rights anymore, they might change their mind about funding the Ivy.

I agree with this. Do not go $80K into debt for a college you don't even want to be at -- especially one that was so toxic for you that you contemplated suicide! There are other schools out there where you can finish your degree for much less money and hopefully a better fit. Your parents are trash for taking this approach.

-1

OP's parent's aren't trash for taking this approach. They're 100% right that a Columbia degree will open up doors for the rest of OP's life.

OP, take the debt and finish up at Columbia. Get over your fear of "stressful, competitive" jobs (whatever the hell that means) and take that six-figure job offer after graduation so you can pay down your student loans.

Oh, and BTW, going into arts administration or non-profits or environmental education will be a decision you'll regret for the rest of your life. No question there.

A few years out no one cares where you went to college. What matters is who you've gotten to know and what you've actually done. Perhaps having gone to Columbia means knowing some people who could be useful in life, but it's not like at age 30 anyone is still talking about your college. I am married to a guy who didn't even finish the low-ranked college he started at and he's doing great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d tell your parents that you are going to transfer to a less prestigious school because you don’t want to take out loans. If they don’t get bragging rights anymore, they might change their mind about funding the Ivy.

I agree with this. Do not go $80K into debt for a college you don't even want to be at -- especially one that was so toxic for you that you contemplated suicide! There are other schools out there where you can finish your degree for much less money and hopefully a better fit. Your parents are trash for taking this approach.

-1

OP's parent's aren't trash for taking this approach. They're 100% right that a Columbia degree will open up doors for the rest of OP's life.

OP, take the debt and finish up at Columbia. Get over your fear of "stressful, competitive" jobs (whatever the hell that means) and take that six-figure job offer after graduation so you can pay down your student loans.

Oh, and BTW, going into arts administration or non-profits or environmental education will be a decision you'll regret for the rest of your life. No question there.

A few years out no one cares where you went to college. What matters is who you've gotten to know and what you've actually done. Perhaps having gone to Columbia means knowing some people who could be useful in life, but it's not like at age 30 anyone is still talking about your college. I am married to a guy who didn't even finish the low-ranked college he started at and he's doing great.

YMMV. Some of us continue to benefit from the strong alumni networks, and academic, cultural, social, and career oriented resources offered by our colleges. While this isn’t advocating for staying at a school that’s a bad fit, don’t pretend that “no one cares”. For some of us, especially POC, it may be the difference between getting an interview— or not, or being the first generation in our families to offer broader experiences to our kids, should we choose to do so. I’m glad that your guy is doing great. Not everyone gets to do a JD Vance though. And “who you’ve gotten to know” can be enormously impacted by where you go to college and where you’ve gone to college —especially for those of us whose families don’t have the kinds of connections that lead to UMC careers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d tell your parents that you are going to transfer to a less prestigious school because you don’t want to take out loans. If they don’t get bragging rights anymore, they might change their mind about funding the Ivy.

I agree with this. Do not go $80K into debt for a college you don't even want to be at -- especially one that was so toxic for you that you contemplated suicide! There are other schools out there where you can finish your degree for much less money and hopefully a better fit. Your parents are trash for taking this approach.

-1

OP's parent's aren't trash for taking this approach. They're 100% right that a Columbia degree will open up doors for the rest of OP's life.

OP, take the debt and finish up at Columbia. Get over your fear of "stressful, competitive" jobs (whatever the hell that means) and take that six-figure job offer after graduation so you can pay down your student loans.

Oh, and BTW, going into arts administration or non-profits or environmental education will be a decision you'll regret for the rest of your life. No question there.

A few years out no one cares where you went to college. What matters is who you've gotten to know and what you've actually done. Perhaps having gone to Columbia means knowing some people who could be useful in life, but it's not like at age 30 anyone is still talking about your college. I am married to a guy who didn't even finish the low-ranked college he started at and he's doing great.

YMMV. Some of us continue to benefit from the strong alumni networks, and academic, cultural, social, and career oriented resources offered by our colleges. While this isn’t advocating for staying at a school that’s a bad fit, don’t pretend that “no one cares”. For some of us, especially POC, it may be the difference between getting an interview— or not, or being the first generation in our families to offer broader experiences to our kids, should we choose to do so. I’m glad that your guy is doing great. Not everyone gets to do a JD Vance though. And “who you’ve gotten to know” can be enormously impacted by where you go to college and where you’ve gone to college —especially for those of us whose families don’t have the kinds of connections that lead to UMC careers.

As someone who formerly worked in admissions, I would see this application to a seven sisters' nontraditional student program and toss it immediately. The people they are looking for are not Asians who had mental health issues and struggled despite coming from a UMC background - a teen mom who worked her way through the early childcare years, sure, but not someone who has never managed to overcome any adversity. Her resume and history screams that any acceptance would be wasted on her - why would we let in someone who had pretty much every opportunity (because OP, you do) and squandered it? Finally, the students at the seven sisters are not ALL significantly different than an Ivy, and there are the SLAC types at Ivy League schools as well. When I got into the Ivies, we used seven sisters as safety schools. The people I know who attended Smith, Vassar, Barnard all just didn't get into the Ivies, but they had the same mentality as those of us who did.

This is a long winded way of saying that OP really should accept that for her, work will probably suck no matter what it is. The key is to figure out the job that pays you the most with the least hours and focus on other hobbies and interests to fulfill yourself. And that high-pay, low-effort job only comes after you pay your dues by way of finance, biglaw, residency, etc.

[Anonymous]

You should push through and take out the loans. You’re almost done. When you’re 40 and the name on the diploma is still getting you interviews, you’ll thank yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:80k is definitely enough, particularly if you will make 100k+ after graduation.

I really think you can stick it through and graduate. If you drop out, chances of you going back are slim. I feel like at every college there's a spot for you. You need to research jobs more and figure out what you're good at. Don't go into law school if you don't like the law- it will be very boring. I actually love the law, love my niche area and enjoy it. So it makes the grunt work (the hard part is reading and analyzing tens of thousands of pages) enjoyable.

What did you actually like doing in school? History? Research? English? Math? What about data analytics?

OP here. Again, I have no desire to go into the kind of high-pressure, competitive jobs that pay $100k to a recent college grad.

I'm interested in publishing, arts administration, non-profit work, and environmental education. Not exactly fields that Columbia undergrads are known to go into (seriously, it seems like everyone around me is gunning for FAANG, BB IB, MBB, or law/med school).

Wishing you well Op. just be aware that the fields you mentioned, especially the first two, are very hard to get into and jobs often go to rich, well- connected kids through no merit of their own. You sound like an idealist and I can see why Columbia is a poor fit.

OP sounds like an idiot.

OP, listen to me. Careers like publishing, arts administration, NPO work, and "environmental education" (whatever the hell that is) are for rich kids whose parents can bankroll their living expenses after graduation and pay for a downpayment on their first house. That's obviously not you. Suck it up and stay at Columbia, no matter how bad it is for your "mental health." Then get out and CRUSH IT in finance/consulting/tech so you can build the generational wealth for your kids that you parents so clearly failed to provide.

+1

I know, I got to this and thought to myself “oh dear.” OP has no clue how all this works. Publishing, arts admin, NPO, etc. are competitive even for Columbia grads with good grades and internships. Too much demand to meet the supply of jobs, which is why they can get away with paying people peanuts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:80k is definitely enough, particularly if you will make 100k+ after graduation.

I really think you can stick it through and graduate. If you drop out, chances of you going back are slim. I feel like at every college there's a spot for you. You need to research jobs more and figure out what you're good at. Don't go into law school if you don't like the law- it will be very boring. I actually love the law, love my niche area and enjoy it. So it makes the grunt work (the hard part is reading and analyzing tens of thousands of pages) enjoyable.

What did you actually like doing in school? History? Research? English? Math? What about data analytics?

OP here. Again, I have no desire to go into the kind of high-pressure, competitive jobs that pay $100k to a recent college grad.

I'm interested in publishing, arts administration, non-profit work, and environmental education. Not exactly fields that Columbia undergrads are known to go into (seriously, it seems like everyone around me is gunning for FAANG, BB IB, MBB, or law/med school).

Wishing you well Op. just be aware that the fields you mentioned, especially the first two, are very hard to get into and jobs often go to rich, well- connected kids through no merit of their own. You sound like an idealist and I can see why Columbia is a poor fit.

OP sounds like an idiot.

OP, listen to me. Careers like publishing, arts administration, NPO work, and "environmental education" (whatever the hell that is) are for rich kids whose parents can bankroll their living expenses after graduation and pay for a downpayment on their first house. That's obviously not you. Suck it up and stay at Columbia, no matter how bad it is for your "mental health." Then get out and CRUSH IT in finance/consulting/tech so you can build the generational wealth for your kids that you parents so clearly failed to provide.

+1

I know, I got to this and thought to myself “oh dear.” OP has no clue how all this works. Publishing, arts admin, NPO, etc. are competitive even for Columbia grads with good grades and internships. Too much demand to meet the supply of jobs, which is why they can get away with paying people peanuts.

OP here. Valid, but I don't know any Columbia grads going into publishing or arts administration -- around me, it seems like it's Big Law/MBB/BB IB/FAANG/ med school all the way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:80k is definitely enough, particularly if you will make 100k+ after graduation.

I really think you can stick it through and graduate. If you drop out, chances of you going back are slim. I feel like at every college there's a spot for you. You need to research jobs more and figure out what you're good at. Don't go into law school if you don't like the law- it will be very boring. I actually love the law, love my niche area and enjoy it. So it makes the grunt work (the hard part is reading and analyzing tens of thousands of pages) enjoyable.

What did you actually like doing in school? History? Research? English? Math? What about data analytics?

OP here. Again, I have no desire to go into the kind of high-pressure, competitive jobs that pay $100k to a recent college grad.

I'm interested in publishing, arts administration, non-profit work, and environmental education. Not exactly fields that Columbia undergrads are known to go into (seriously, it seems like everyone around me is gunning for FAANG, BB IB, MBB, or law/med school).

Wishing you well Op. just be aware that the fields you mentioned, especially the first two, are very hard to get into and jobs often go to rich, well- connected kids through no merit of their own. You sound like an idealist and I can see why Columbia is a poor fit.

OP sounds like an idiot.

OP, listen to me. Careers like publishing, arts administration, NPO work, and "environmental education" (whatever the hell that is) are for rich kids whose parents can bankroll their living expenses after graduation and pay for a downpayment on their first house. That's obviously not you. Suck it up and stay at Columbia, no matter how bad it is for your "mental health." Then get out and CRUSH IT in finance/consulting/tech so you can build the generational wealth for your kids that you parents so clearly failed to provide.

+1

I know, I got to this and thought to myself “oh dear.” OP has no clue how all this works. Publishing, arts admin, NPO, etc. are competitive even for Columbia grads with good grades and internships. Too much demand to meet the supply of jobs, which is why they can get away with paying people peanuts.

OP here. Valid, but I don't know any Columbia grads going into publishing or arts administration -- around me, it seems like it's Big Law/MBB/BB IB/FAANG/ med school all the way.

Do you hang with the rich kids? Bc they’re the only ones who can afford to stay in NYC and make ~ 45k a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d tell your parents that you are going to transfer to a less prestigious school because you don’t want to take out loans. If they don’t get bragging rights anymore, they might change their mind about funding the Ivy.

I agree with this. Do not go $80K into debt for a college you don't even want to be at -- especially one that was so toxic for you that you contemplated suicide! There are other schools out there where you can finish your degree for much less money and hopefully a better fit. Your parents are trash for taking this approach.

-1

OP's parent's aren't trash for taking this approach. They're 100% right that a Columbia degree will open up doors for the rest of OP's life.

OP, take the debt and finish up at Columbia. Get over your fear of "stressful, competitive" jobs (whatever the hell that means) and take that six-figure job offer after graduation so you can pay down your student loans.

Oh, and BTW, going into arts administration or non-profits or environmental education will be a decision you'll regret for the rest of your life. No question there.

A few years out no one cares where you went to college. What matters is who you've gotten to know and what you've actually done. Perhaps having gone to Columbia means knowing some people who could be useful in life, but it's not like at age 30 anyone is still talking about your college. I am married to a guy who didn't even finish the low-ranked college he started at and he's doing great.

YMMV. Some of us continue to benefit from the strong alumni networks, and academic, cultural, social, and career oriented resources offered by our colleges. While this isn’t advocating for staying at a school that’s a bad fit, don’t pretend that “no one cares”. For some of us, especially POC, it may be the difference between getting an interview— or not, or being the first generation in our families to offer broader experiences to our kids, should we choose to do so. I’m glad that your guy is doing great. Not everyone gets to do a JD Vance though. And “who you’ve gotten to know” can be enormously impacted by where you go to college and where you’ve gone to college —especially for those of us whose families don’t have the kinds of connections that lead to UMC careers.

As someone who formerly worked in admissions, I would see this application to a seven sisters' nontraditional student program and toss it immediately. The people they are looking for are not Asians who had mental health issues and struggled despite coming from a UMC background - a teen mom who worked her way through the early childcare years, sure, but not someone who has never managed to overcome any adversity. Her resume and history screams that any acceptance would be wasted on her - why would we let in someone who had pretty much every opportunity (because OP, you do) and squandered it? Finally, the students at the seven sisters are not ALL significantly different than an Ivy, and there are the SLAC types at Ivy League schools as well. When I got into the Ivies, we used seven sisters as safety schools. The people I know who attended Smith, Vassar, Barnard all just didn't get into the Ivies, but they had the same mentality as those of us who did.

This is a long winded way of saying that OP really should accept that for her, work will probably suck no matter what it is. The key is to figure out the job that pays you the most with the least hours and focus on other hobbies and interests to fulfill yourself. And that high-pay, low-effort job only comes after you pay your dues by way of finance, biglaw, residency, etc.

This is harsh but not off-base.
OP, it is not easy getting into college when you are older. Especially if you need financial aid.
You will need to have a compelling case and you will be competing against others with interesting life stories.
I work as a teacher and I am low paid but still work 60+ hours during the school year. I love my students, at least some of them, but 50% of the work thrown at teachers by school administrators is exhausting and mind numbing. My work is meaningful but I’m getting burned out. Be careful what you wish for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d tell your parents that you are going to transfer to a less prestigious school because you don’t want to take out loans. If they don’t get bragging rights anymore, they might change their mind about funding the Ivy.

I agree with this. Do not go $80K into debt for a college you don't even want to be at -- especially one that was so toxic for you that you contemplated suicide! There are other schools out there where you can finish your degree for much less money and hopefully a better fit. Your parents are trash for taking this approach.

-1

OP's parent's aren't trash for taking this approach. They're 100% right that a Columbia degree will open up doors for the rest of OP's life.

OP, take the debt and finish up at Columbia. Get over your fear of "stressful, competitive" jobs (whatever the hell that means) and take that six-figure job offer after graduation so you can pay down your student loans.

Oh, and BTW, going into arts administration or non-profits or environmental education will be a decision you'll regret for the rest of your life. No question there.

A few years out no one cares where you went to college. What matters is who you've gotten to know and what you've actually done. Perhaps having gone to Columbia means knowing some people who could be useful in life, but it's not like at age 30 anyone is still talking about your college. I am married to a guy who didn't even finish the low-ranked college he started at and he's doing great.

YMMV. Some of us continue to benefit from the strong alumni networks, and academic, cultural, social, and career oriented resources offered by our colleges. While this isn’t advocating for staying at a school that’s a bad fit, don’t pretend that “no one cares”. For some of us, especially POC, it may be the difference between getting an interview— or not, or being the first generation in our families to offer broader experiences to our kids, should we choose to do so. I’m glad that your guy is doing great. Not everyone gets to do a JD Vance though. And “who you’ve gotten to know” can be enormously impacted by where you go to college and where you’ve gone to college —especially for those of us whose families don’t have the kinds of connections that lead to UMC careers.

As someone who formerly worked in admissions, I would see this application to a seven sisters' nontraditional student program and toss it immediately. The people they are looking for are not Asians who had mental health issues and struggled despite coming from a UMC background - a teen mom who worked her way through the early childcare years, sure, but not someone who has never managed to overcome any adversity. Her resume and history screams that any acceptance would be wasted on her - why would we let in someone who had pretty much every opportunity (because OP, you do) and squandered it? Finally, the students at the seven sisters are not ALL significantly different than an Ivy, and there are the SLAC types at Ivy League schools as well. When I got into the Ivies, we used seven sisters as safety schools. The people I know who attended Smith, Vassar, Barnard all just didn't get into the Ivies, but they had the same mentality as those of us who did.

This is a long winded way of saying that OP really should accept that for her, work will probably suck no matter what it is. The key is to figure out the job that pays you the most with the least hours and focus on other hobbies and interests to fulfill yourself. And that high-pay, low-effort job only comes after you pay your dues by way of finance, biglaw, residency, etc.

Bolded is absolutely true based on the Seven Sisters alumnae I know personally and professionally. Many of them chose those school over Ivies for the single-sex aspect or for scholarship reasons, but they were 100% gunning for Ivy League schools and the like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d tell your parents that you are going to transfer to a less prestigious school because you don’t want to take out loans. If they don’t get bragging rights anymore, they might change their mind about funding the Ivy.

I agree with this. Do not go $80K into debt for a college you don't even want to be at -- especially one that was so toxic for you that you contemplated suicide! There are other schools out there where you can finish your degree for much less money and hopefully a better fit. Your parents are trash for taking this approach.

-1

OP's parent's aren't trash for taking this approach. They're 100% right that a Columbia degree will open up doors for the rest of OP's life.

OP, take the debt and finish up at Columbia. Get over your fear of "stressful, competitive" jobs (whatever the hell that means) and take that six-figure job offer after graduation so you can pay down your student loans.

Oh, and BTW, going into arts administration or non-profits or environmental education will be a decision you'll regret for the rest of your life. No question there.

A few years out no one cares where you went to college. What matters is who you've gotten to know and what you've actually done. Perhaps having gone to Columbia means knowing some people who could be useful in life, but it's not like at age 30 anyone is still talking about your college. I am married to a guy who didn't even finish the low-ranked college he started at and he's doing great.

YMMV. Some of us continue to benefit from the strong alumni networks, and academic, cultural, social, and career oriented resources offered by our colleges. While this isn’t advocating for staying at a school that’s a bad fit, don’t pretend that “no one cares”. For some of us, especially POC, it may be the difference between getting an interview— or not, or being the first generation in our families to offer broader experiences to our kids, should we choose to do so. I’m glad that your guy is doing great. Not everyone gets to do a JD Vance though. And “who you’ve gotten to know” can be enormously impacted by where you go to college and where you’ve gone to college —especially for those of us whose families don’t have the kinds of connections that lead to UMC careers.

As someone who formerly worked in admissions, I would see this application to a seven sisters' nontraditional student program and toss it immediately. The people they are looking for are not Asians who had mental health issues and struggled despite coming from a UMC background - a teen mom who worked her way through the early childcare years, sure, but not someone who has never managed to overcome any adversity. Her resume and history screams that any acceptance would be wasted on her - why would we let in someone who had pretty much every opportunity (because OP, you do) and squandered it? Finally, the students at the seven sisters are not ALL significantly different than an Ivy, and there are the SLAC types at Ivy League schools as well. When I got into the Ivies, we used seven sisters as safety schools. The people I know who attended Smith, Vassar, Barnard all just didn't get into the Ivies, but they had the same mentality as those of us who did.

This is a long winded way of saying that OP really should accept that for her, work will probably suck no matter what it is. The key is to figure out the job that pays you the most with the least hours and focus on other hobbies and interests to fulfill yourself. And that high-pay, low-effort job only comes after you pay your dues by way of finance, biglaw, residency, etc.

OP here. You're right that an admissions office would probably be wary of my application. I do think that getting to graduate from a Seven Sisters school with little to no debt (since only my income would be considered for financial aid purposes at that point and not my parents') would put me in a much better spot than taking out $80k in loans to go to Columbia. I also don't know how an admissions officer would be able to glean that I left Columbia for mental health reasons (and not, say, my financial reasons) if I don't disclose this on my application.

And I've had your same thoughts about work sucking for me no matter what and having to pay my dues in some soul-crushing career in my 20s. But I am not mentally healthy or stable enough to stick it out in Big Law, MBB, BB IB, or residency. If I can't even handle college, how the hell am I supposed to handle a high-pressure, competitive, cutthroat atmosphere in whatever job or industry that will allow me to pay my dues for an eventual "high-pay, low-effort" job in the future?

Many of my friends are interning in BB IB or MBB this summer. Although most of them are much more mentally healthy and stable than I am, they're still absolutely miserable and depressed because of the intense, competitive nature of those jobs. When Goldman Sachs analysts are saying that their job is worse than foster care ( https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/18/group-of-junior-bankers-at-goldman-sachs-claim-inhumane-work-conditions ), it's time for me to re-evaluate what to do post-grad. For me, I think what will keep me the most sane, mentally healthy, and stable after graduation (keep in mind I am not any of these things right now) is not stepping on the treadmill of a grueling career (even if it'll set me up for success later), but taking a relatively chill job that I'll (at least somewhat) enjoy. Whether that's at a non-profit or maybe working on a farm or something else is up in the air, but what I do know for certain is that taking out $80k in loans will completely eliminate that possibility for me.

I don't know. But I was looking at MBB consulting internships for Summer 2023 a few weeks ago (the deadline to apply is coming up soon). Just hearing about the work they do and the case interview seems soul-sucking. I don't think I'd be able to survive, even for a year, in that sort of environment because I am not healthy at the moment.