Loud ATV drivers at night? City government? Police?

[Anonymous]

Hellscape!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rochester is fighting back. There is no reason we cannot change the rules to demand registration, fine, intercept, impound and destroy these vehicles as they are. This is not harmless fun — it’s noise pollution, illegal and terroristic behavior. What about children living in these neighborhoods? Do they not have rights? It’s not NIMBY either. It’s common sense and the politician with guts to make DC into a properly governed city will win.

You're right. It's easy to do. Just require any wheeled or tracked vehicle travelling 20mph or more on public property to be registered, required to follow motor vehicle traffic rules and their operator licensed for the amount of wheels or tracks they are using. It's a simple solution, easy to enforce and future proof.

OMG - this is sarcasm, right?

You cannot possibly be this ignorant of the facts here.

No. That solves the problem. It's also basic common sense. What about that would anybody disagree with? The problem with cracking down on them is that they don't necessarily fit into one of the categories so it is not clear if they are violating the law. Identifying exact engine size by quick glance is virtually impossible. Instead of expensive or complicated workarounds that won't work, acoustic cameras lol, just close the loopholes and simplify the process. KISS

The laws already exist.

The teens riding illegal bike DGAF about any of the laws. They simply ignore them.

I really believe you do not get it. At all. You are completely clueless about the "biker boys" culture.

But if you disagree, just head down to S.E. any summer evening, becon over one of the young men on an illegal dirtbike or ATV, and explain to him he must immediately cease and desist riding because it is in violation of traffic lawas and a danger.

Report back to us here how that goes.

What you seem to be missing is that it is not entirely clear that the dirt bikes are violating any laws right now. Engines smaller than 50cc or dirt bikes with manual gears are not illegal and have no registration requirement. There are also different rules depending on whether or not there are pedals and the type of tire installed. Changing the registration rule to make it speed based and vehicle neutral solves that problem, prevents loopholes and simplifies enforcement.

Without registration tying the vehicle to the owner there is no point in fines.
Banning two stroke engines has the exact same enforcement problem, is ineffective because 4 stroke engines exist, and includes lawnmowers among other things.

These rules seem pretty clear: https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/minibikes-and-other-small-vehicles

It is illegal to ride or operate a minibike, dirt bike or All Terrain Vehicle (ATV) anywhere on public space in the District of Columbia (including streets, sidewalks, alleyways, bike lanes, public trails and other public locations).

Look at the definitions.

There's nothing about tire or engine size for dirt bikes or ATVs.

Tire type - off road is part of the definition.
Engine - The definition references the motorcycle definition which has specific elements regarding engine size and gearing.

There is a reason why there is a thriving market for street legal conversion kits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rochester is fighting back. There is no reason we cannot change the rules to demand registration, fine, intercept, impound and destroy these vehicles as they are. This is not harmless fun — it’s noise pollution, illegal and terroristic behavior. What about children living in these neighborhoods? Do they not have rights? It’s not NIMBY either. It’s common sense and the politician with guts to make DC into a properly governed city will win.

You're right. It's easy to do. Just require any wheeled or tracked vehicle travelling 20mph or more on public property to be registered, required to follow motor vehicle traffic rules and their operator licensed for the amount of wheels or tracks they are using. It's a simple solution, easy to enforce and future proof.

OMG - this is sarcasm, right?

You cannot possibly be this ignorant of the facts here.

No. That solves the problem. It's also basic common sense. What about that would anybody disagree with? The problem with cracking down on them is that they don't necessarily fit into one of the categories so it is not clear if they are violating the law. Identifying exact engine size by quick glance is virtually impossible. Instead of expensive or complicated workarounds that won't work, acoustic cameras lol, just close the loopholes and simplify the process. KISS

The laws already exist.

The teens riding illegal bike DGAF about any of the laws. They simply ignore them.

I really believe you do not get it. At all. You are completely clueless about the "biker boys" culture.

But if you disagree, just head down to S.E. any summer evening, becon over one of the young men on an illegal dirtbike or ATV, and explain to him he must immediately cease and desist riding because it is in violation of traffic lawas and a danger.

Report back to us here how that goes.

What you seem to be missing is that it is not entirely clear that the dirt bikes are violating any laws right now. Engines smaller than 50cc or dirt bikes with manual gears are not illegal and have no registration requirement. There are also different rules depending on whether or not there are pedals and the type of tire installed. Changing the registration rule to make it speed based and vehicle neutral solves that problem, prevents loopholes and simplifies enforcement.

Without registration tying the vehicle to the owner there is no point in fines.
Banning two stroke engines has the exact same enforcement problem, is ineffective because 4 stroke engines exist, and includes lawnmowers among other things.

These rules seem pretty clear: https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/minibikes-and-other-small-vehicles

It is illegal to ride or operate a minibike, dirt bike or All Terrain Vehicle (ATV) anywhere on public space in the District of Columbia (including streets, sidewalks, alleyways, bike lanes, public trails and other public locations).

Look at the definitions.

There's nothing about tire or engine size for dirt bikes or ATVs.

Tire type - off road is part of the definition.
Engine - The definition references the motorcycle definition which has specific elements regarding engine size and gearing.

There is a reason why there is a thriving market for street legal conversion kits.

My understanding is that they have a hard time defining rules that would ban dirt bikes but that wouldn’t ban motorbikes, mopeds, “motorized bicycles” and e-bikes. People that want e-bikes to be broadly legal have the consequence that it creates massive loopholes for dirt bikes. I presume a lot of the pro-e-bike people are anti-dirt bike so it’s all a bit ironic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rochester is fighting back. There is no reason we cannot change the rules to demand registration, fine, intercept, impound and destroy these vehicles as they are. This is not harmless fun — it’s noise pollution, illegal and terroristic behavior. What about children living in these neighborhoods? Do they not have rights? It’s not NIMBY either. It’s common sense and the politician with guts to make DC into a properly governed city will win.

You're right. It's easy to do. Just require any wheeled or tracked vehicle travelling 20mph or more on public property to be registered, required to follow motor vehicle traffic rules and their operator licensed for the amount of wheels or tracks they are using. It's a simple solution, easy to enforce and future proof.

OMG - this is sarcasm, right?

You cannot possibly be this ignorant of the facts here.

No. That solves the problem. It's also basic common sense. What about that would anybody disagree with? The problem with cracking down on them is that they don't necessarily fit into one of the categories so it is not clear if they are violating the law. Identifying exact engine size by quick glance is virtually impossible. Instead of expensive or complicated workarounds that won't work, acoustic cameras lol, just close the loopholes and simplify the process. KISS

The laws already exist.

The teens riding illegal bike DGAF about any of the laws. They simply ignore them.

I really believe you do not get it. At all. You are completely clueless about the "biker boys" culture.

But if you disagree, just head down to S.E. any summer evening, becon over one of the young men on an illegal dirtbike or ATV, and explain to him he must immediately cease and desist riding because it is in violation of traffic lawas and a danger.

Report back to us here how that goes.

What you seem to be missing is that it is not entirely clear that the dirt bikes are violating any laws right now. Engines smaller than 50cc or dirt bikes with manual gears are not illegal and have no registration requirement. There are also different rules depending on whether or not there are pedals and the type of tire installed. Changing the registration rule to make it speed based and vehicle neutral solves that problem, prevents loopholes and simplifies enforcement.

Without registration tying the vehicle to the owner there is no point in fines.
Banning two stroke engines has the exact same enforcement problem, is ineffective because 4 stroke engines exist, and includes lawnmowers among other things.

These rules seem pretty clear: https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/minibikes-and-other-small-vehicles

It is illegal to ride or operate a minibike, dirt bike or All Terrain Vehicle (ATV) anywhere on public space in the District of Columbia (including streets, sidewalks, alleyways, bike lanes, public trails and other public locations).

Look at the definitions.

There's nothing about tire or engine size for dirt bikes or ATVs.

Tire type - off road is part of the definition.
Engine - The definition references the motorcycle definition which has specific elements regarding engine size and gearing.

There is a reason why there is a thriving market for street legal conversion kits.

My understanding is that they have a hard time defining rules that would ban dirt bikes but that wouldn’t ban motorbikes, mopeds, “motorized bicycles” and e-bikes. People that want e-bikes to be broadly legal have the consequence that it creates massive loopholes for dirt bikes. I presume a lot of the pro-e-bike people are anti-dirt bike so it’s all a bit ironic.

Exactly. That's why I suggested a new vehicle neutral definition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rochester is fighting back. There is no reason we cannot change the rules to demand registration, fine, intercept, impound and destroy these vehicles as they are. This is not harmless fun — it’s noise pollution, illegal and terroristic behavior. What about children living in these neighborhoods? Do they not have rights? It’s not NIMBY either. It’s common sense and the politician with guts to make DC into a properly governed city will win.

You're right. It's easy to do. Just require any wheeled or tracked vehicle travelling 20mph or more on public property to be registered, required to follow motor vehicle traffic rules and their operator licensed for the amount of wheels or tracks they are using. It's a simple solution, easy to enforce and future proof.

OMG - this is sarcasm, right?

You cannot possibly be this ignorant of the facts here.

No. That solves the problem. It's also basic common sense. What about that would anybody disagree with? The problem with cracking down on them is that they don't necessarily fit into one of the categories so it is not clear if they are violating the law. Identifying exact engine size by quick glance is virtually impossible. Instead of expensive or complicated workarounds that won't work, acoustic cameras lol, just close the loopholes and simplify the process. KISS

The laws already exist.

The teens riding illegal bike DGAF about any of the laws. They simply ignore them.

I really believe you do not get it. At all. You are completely clueless about the "biker boys" culture.

But if you disagree, just head down to S.E. any summer evening, becon over one of the young men on an illegal dirtbike or ATV, and explain to him he must immediately cease and desist riding because it is in violation of traffic lawas and a danger.

Report back to us here how that goes.

What you seem to be missing is that it is not entirely clear that the dirt bikes are violating any laws right now. Engines smaller than 50cc or dirt bikes with manual gears are not illegal and have no registration requirement. There are also different rules depending on whether or not there are pedals and the type of tire installed. Changing the registration rule to make it speed based and vehicle neutral solves that problem, prevents loopholes and simplifies enforcement.

Without registration tying the vehicle to the owner there is no point in fines.
Banning two stroke engines has the exact same enforcement problem, is ineffective because 4 stroke engines exist, and includes lawnmowers among other things.

These rules seem pretty clear: https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/minibikes-and-other-small-vehicles

It is illegal to ride or operate a minibike, dirt bike or All Terrain Vehicle (ATV) anywhere on public space in the District of Columbia (including streets, sidewalks, alleyways, bike lanes, public trails and other public locations).

Look at the definitions.

There's nothing about tire or engine size for dirt bikes or ATVs.

Tire type - off road is part of the definition.
Engine - The definition references the motorcycle definition which has specific elements regarding engine size and gearing.

There is a reason why there is a thriving market for street legal conversion kits.

My understanding is that they have a hard time defining rules that would ban dirt bikes but that wouldn’t ban motorbikes, mopeds, “motorized bicycles” and e-bikes. People that want e-bikes to be broadly legal have the consequence that it creates massive loopholes for dirt bikes. I presume a lot of the pro-e-bike people are anti-dirt bike so it’s all a bit ironic.

https://dmv.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dmv/publication/attachments/Non-Traditional%20Motor%20Vehicle%20Chart%20%283.24.21%29.pdf

The definitions don't seem unclear unless you have reading comprehension issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rochester is fighting back. There is no reason we cannot change the rules to demand registration, fine, intercept, impound and destroy these vehicles as they are. This is not harmless fun — it’s noise pollution, illegal and terroristic behavior. What about children living in these neighborhoods? Do they not have rights? It’s not NIMBY either. It’s common sense and the politician with guts to make DC into a properly governed city will win.

You're right. It's easy to do. Just require any wheeled or tracked vehicle travelling 20mph or more on public property to be registered, required to follow motor vehicle traffic rules and their operator licensed for the amount of wheels or tracks they are using. It's a simple solution, easy to enforce and future proof.

OMG - this is sarcasm, right?

You cannot possibly be this ignorant of the facts here.

No. That solves the problem. It's also basic common sense. What about that would anybody disagree with? The problem with cracking down on them is that they don't necessarily fit into one of the categories so it is not clear if they are violating the law. Identifying exact engine size by quick glance is virtually impossible. Instead of expensive or complicated workarounds that won't work, acoustic cameras lol, just close the loopholes and simplify the process. KISS

The laws already exist.

The teens riding illegal bike DGAF about any of the laws. They simply ignore them.

I really believe you do not get it. At all. You are completely clueless about the "biker boys" culture.

But if you disagree, just head down to S.E. any summer evening, becon over one of the young men on an illegal dirtbike or ATV, and explain to him he must immediately cease and desist riding because it is in violation of traffic lawas and a danger.

Report back to us here how that goes.

What you seem to be missing is that it is not entirely clear that the dirt bikes are violating any laws right now. Engines smaller than 50cc or dirt bikes with manual gears are not illegal and have no registration requirement. There are also different rules depending on whether or not there are pedals and the type of tire installed. Changing the registration rule to make it speed based and vehicle neutral solves that problem, prevents loopholes and simplifies enforcement.

Without registration tying the vehicle to the owner there is no point in fines.
Banning two stroke engines has the exact same enforcement problem, is ineffective because 4 stroke engines exist, and includes lawnmowers among other things.

These rules seem pretty clear: https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/minibikes-and-other-small-vehicles

It is illegal to ride or operate a minibike, dirt bike or All Terrain Vehicle (ATV) anywhere on public space in the District of Columbia (including streets, sidewalks, alleyways, bike lanes, public trails and other public locations).

Look at the definitions.

There's nothing about tire or engine size for dirt bikes or ATVs.

Tire type - off road is part of the definition.
Engine - The definition references the motorcycle definition which has specific elements regarding engine size and gearing.

There is a reason why there is a thriving market for street legal conversion kits.

Engine size is used to distinguish between mopeds and motorcycles. There are no off road mopeds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rochester is fighting back. There is no reason we cannot change the rules to demand registration, fine, intercept, impound and destroy these vehicles as they are. This is not harmless fun — it’s noise pollution, illegal and terroristic behavior. What about children living in these neighborhoods? Do they not have rights? It’s not NIMBY either. It’s common sense and the politician with guts to make DC into a properly governed city will win.

You're right. It's easy to do. Just require any wheeled or tracked vehicle travelling 20mph or more on public property to be registered, required to follow motor vehicle traffic rules and their operator licensed for the amount of wheels or tracks they are using. It's a simple solution, easy to enforce and future proof.

OMG - this is sarcasm, right?

You cannot possibly be this ignorant of the facts here.

No. That solves the problem. It's also basic common sense. What about that would anybody disagree with? The problem with cracking down on them is that they don't necessarily fit into one of the categories so it is not clear if they are violating the law. Identifying exact engine size by quick glance is virtually impossible. Instead of expensive or complicated workarounds that won't work, acoustic cameras lol, just close the loopholes and simplify the process. KISS

The laws already exist.

The teens riding illegal bike DGAF about any of the laws. They simply ignore them.

I really believe you do not get it. At all. You are completely clueless about the "biker boys" culture.

But if you disagree, just head down to S.E. any summer evening, becon over one of the young men on an illegal dirtbike or ATV, and explain to him he must immediately cease and desist riding because it is in violation of traffic lawas and a danger.

Report back to us here how that goes.

What you seem to be missing is that it is not entirely clear that the dirt bikes are violating any laws right now. Engines smaller than 50cc or dirt bikes with manual gears are not illegal and have no registration requirement. There are also different rules depending on whether or not there are pedals and the type of tire installed. Changing the registration rule to make it speed based and vehicle neutral solves that problem, prevents loopholes and simplifies enforcement.

Without registration tying the vehicle to the owner there is no point in fines.
Banning two stroke engines has the exact same enforcement problem, is ineffective because 4 stroke engines exist, and includes lawnmowers among other things.

These rules seem pretty clear: https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/minibikes-and-other-small-vehicles

It is illegal to ride or operate a minibike, dirt bike or All Terrain Vehicle (ATV) anywhere on public space in the District of Columbia (including streets, sidewalks, alleyways, bike lanes, public trails and other public locations).

Look at the definitions.

There's nothing about tire or engine size for dirt bikes or ATVs.

Tire type - off road is part of the definition.
Engine - The definition references the motorcycle definition which has specific elements regarding engine size and gearing.

There is a reason why there is a thriving market for street legal conversion kits.

My understanding is that they have a hard time defining rules that would ban dirt bikes but that wouldn’t ban motorbikes, mopeds, “motorized bicycles” and e-bikes. People that want e-bikes to be broadly legal have the consequence that it creates massive loopholes for dirt bikes. I presume a lot of the pro-e-bike people are anti-dirt bike so it’s all a bit ironic.

https://dmv.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dmv/publication/attachments/Non-Traditional%20Motor%20Vehicle%20Chart%20%283.24.21%29.pdf

The definitions don't seem unclear unless you have reading comprehension issues.

Hey look. The unpleasant anti-car, lying a-hole is back.

As an FYI, what you’ve just linked to is not the actual definitions under the legislation. This is just a “synopsis”, which is sort of like a cheat sheet but has no legal authority. You would need to actually go to the cited code for the definitions. But since you are a disingenuous liar, you obviously wouldn’t do that.

But if you actually bothered, please do tell me the difference under law between a 125c dirt bike, 125c motorcycle and 125c scooter. I would love to hear your expert legal analysis.

[Anonymous]

Here’s the Rochester legislation:
https://www.cityofrochester.gov/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=21474847380

In short, all of the above of not street-legal.

The penalties start at $500, continue from $2,000 and include intercepting, impounding and destroying offending vehicles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s the Rochester legislation:
https://www.cityofrochester.gov/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=21474847380

In short, all of the above of not street-legal.

The penalties start at $500, continue from $2,000 and include intercepting, impounding and destroying offending vehicles.

“Intercepting” problem is DC has a law or policy banning the police from chasing biker boys.

They are in Baltimore too - which also has a “no chase” policy.

Result? Almost ZERO enforcement. Let me find a video or two for you. . .

[Anonymous]

For those of you who still don’t comprehend the inner city “I don’t give a F*ck” attitude of the biker boyz, here is a nice, New York Times bit of journalism from a decade back, to give you a glimpse into a world you really do not know or understand:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=30lKGIdOzQY

[Anonymous]

It’s not that people don’t comprehend, but that they don’t care. Sure, it’s a sad state of affairs. Kind of gross and pointless. But not the issue. Legislation and enforcement on the other hand…

[Anonymous]

Regulate. Enforce. Identify. Fine. Impound. Destroy.

Rochester fee schedule works: $500 then $2,000 and so on.

The beauty of the acoustic cameras is that they involve no police attention or confrontation. Add face recognition software and jail time for covered up plates.

Meanwhile, go ride in designated areas. Stop terrorizing families

[Anonymous]

If they can sanction Russian oligarchs they can take these thugs vehicles as it is a result of illegal activity and thugs stealing them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Regulate. Enforce. Identify. Fine. Impound. Destroy.

Rochester fee schedule works: $500 then $2,000 and so on.

The beauty of the acoustic cameras is that they involve no police attention or confrontation. Add face recognition software and jail time for covered up plates.

Meanwhile, go ride in designated areas. Stop terrorizing families

We don’t live in Rochester, NY. I am not sure that I understand what you are saying here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If they can sanction Russian oligarchs they can take these thugs vehicles as it is a result of illegal activity and thugs stealing them

It took 11 pages, but finally! “Thugs”. Perfect.