For parents that were shocked their kids didn't get accepted...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son was pretty aggressive with his applications. With one exception, all of his applications were to schools which definitely reject most of their applicants. He has been admitted to four schools (including the safety). They are good schools, but perhaps not tippy top from a rankings perspective. Of his rejections (and there are likely going to be more tonight!), most were not shocking, or even surprising (think MIT, Amherst, Williams), but I was shocked that he didn't get into UVa. Given his academic and extracurricular profile (3.98 GPA/4.53 wGPA/35 ACT/Eagle Scout/2-year captain of HS team), I thought he was certainly going to be admitted there. Nothing but a sea of green checkmarks around him on the Naviance scattergram, with out any red anywhere nearby. He applied EA, but not ED, and was deferred and ultimately waitlisted. I remain shocked that he didn't get in, but I suppose this may be the new normal.

+1 - same stats, same EC and same result.

Pls let us know how today goes. But also, if your kid has 4 acceptances to schools “that definitely reject most of their applicants” that sounds like a super successful cycle, despite UVA? Am I missing something? Also do you mind sharing major?

In at Northeastern, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, and JMU. Very good merit award from Northeastern. Interested in a business major. Has taken 5 AP tests (World History, Spanish Lang., Psychology, U.S. Gov't, AB Calc), with 2 5's, 2 4's, and a 3.

No complaints about his options, but am curious (in an abstract way) about what admits at Williams and Amherst showed in their applications that he did not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No complaints about his options, but am curious (in an abstract way) about what admits at Williams and Amherst showed in their applications that he did not.

Probably nothing. But with 10,000 applicants 8,800 have to get rejected.

It is by no means any judgment on your kid, his accomplishments, his transcript, or him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of a HS junior who is now terrified. Student has a 34 ACT and 4.3 WGPA, will have 10 APs total, so far all 5s on those taken in 9th and 10th.

Sounds like all the schools he thought were targets are actually reaches, what he thought were safetys are now targets, and I cannot imagine what actual safetys will be because he will be rejected for yield protection.

It is not entitlement, but there should be some expectation that if you do this, then you will get I
into that (isn't that the rubric they've been taught in MCPS from day one?!?)

I think this realization - targets are reaches, safeties are targets, reaches are probably out of reach - is one that many many families have had to learn, and not just this year (even though this year is worse.) My MCPS senior has a 4.5wgpa and a year ago we dragged him and his similarly situated cousin around Georgetown thinking it could be a realistic option. We figured out quickly it was not, nor were many of the other schools that were safeties for me a very long time ago but are now incredibly competitive. My kid came out fine - picked a top SLAC and happened to win the ED1 lottery - but it's a brutal process and requires all involved to be realistic or even pessimistic and strategic about how your kid approaches the application process.

The other side of the coin is to recognize that my kid is one of many. Realize the grade inflation and test score inflation that comes with a superscore (yes a straight 35 is less than 1% of Act test takers but schools don’t distinguish between that and super score that could be 6 tries). There is also EC inflation bc kids can start clubs and there are so many more niche sports, activities etc. We all like to think we have the highest stats kids but we don’t. My kid included. We need to get real about this process.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where you unaware of the significant increase in applications since COVID? Did you think TO would have no effect on the applicant pool? Did anyone (e.g., college counselor) discuss yield projection for perceived "safety" schools? Do you consider the math/odds in applying to a school that accepts less than 20% of applicants? Did you discuss any of these issues with your kids before they applied? Or is it something else?

I heard there was expected to be a huge increase in applications but I wasn't sure what that impact would be. We figured that the schools would still look at tests for those students that did submit them. I remember seeing statistics showing that for TO schools in the prior year, the acceptance rate was higher for students that did submit test scores. We guessed that the increase in applications is mainly from students who are reaching at schools that they normally would not have applied to and that the schools will still find a way to admit students according to their normal standards. In short, we figured that TO was largely a form of virtue signaling. Apparently, we were wrong.

My kid's counselor was very reassuring to our kid regarding his chances of being accepted. Looking at the Naviance map for his ED school, his stats are in the heart of a cluster of checkmarks and only one X. Despite this, we applied to 20+ schools because ED/EA rounds completely shattered our preconceived notions. Now the counselor is voicing frustration and the sinking feeling that the students haven't been given adequate guidance this year. One student with a 3.6 GPA and 1350 SAT applied to a "normal" number of schools and did not get into any of them.

We did consider the math/odds but felt confident about our kid's stats, ECs, recommendations, and essay quality. Even if he has bad luck at one, two, three, or four schools, he should not have bad luck at 10 or 20 schools. We are engineers and we understand statistics; both of us are also in administrative roles and write documents targeted toward a variety of audiences so we understand the importance of connecting with the reader. I believe we were rationally optimistic based on the then-best-available information.

I do want to congratulate all the students that got into a school that they are happy with. It's a valuable opportunity and I wish them the very best.

And???

And is right.

And by the way, if this is a public school you're talking about, all you're doing is proving our point. A 3.6 GPA is inconsistent with a 1350 SAT score.

NP, still waiting to hear how a 3.6 is inconsistent with a 1350. Should the SAT score be lower or higher?

If a kid is doing 3.6 level work, then the SAT should be higher - at least 1400, and probably 1450. That's why I asked if it's a public school. A 3.6 at a public school is not the same as a 3.6 at a private.

You assertion does not take into account a student's test-taking abilities. My DD is super-bright and has always done well in math, but she does not do well on the math portion of standardized tests because she can never finish in time. She has tried everything (tutors, etc.), so it really is about her test-taking abilities (or lack thereof).

How does she handle timed test taking in HS classes? What makes the difference there for her? Added pressure of it being a high stakes test? The possibly strange environment of the test center?

I am just trying to wrap my head around. In their future college careers they will be confronted with many high stakes tests.

Not the quotes poster, but I have a kid who is really, really bright and a super deep thinker. Timed tests are tough for her because she thinks through things. She comes up with great answers in time, but often comes at them in a different direction. For math, she needs to understand the why and can’t memorize the algorithm and plug it in so she has always been slow to learn it but gets it on a deep level when she does. No less intelligent than most advanced kids (probably more intelligent than most), but a deeper, different learner. The tests don’t give her time to think through the problems.

She ended up with a 34 on the ACT, which was fine for the colleges she wanted. In college (sophomore now), she has a 3.95, so it has not impacted her. I think there are relatively few high stakes tests once you get into college.

.

PP here. I will add that in college, she was taking a class on a very obscure, niche topic and the professor was blown away by how she thought about an issue and her analysis. He has been studying this topic for over 40 years and has never had someone approach it that way. So I think colleges should WANT these students. She oozes intellectual curiosity. The fact that she couldn’t get to a 36 shouldn’t matter (although she did not want top, top schools because she hates the competition and wants to learn for the sake of learning, not for a grade. She went to a pressure cooker HS and as burned out).

My older kid had this kind of "problem" as well. His intellectual approach and curiosity makes him very much appreciated by his HS teachers and now his college professors. I think had he been able to communicate that clearly in his applications he might have done "better", but he's very uncomfortable talking about himself and that side of him probably didn't come through in his applications. He was admitted to some very good colleges (W&M, Grinnell, Union, UVa, amongst others) and is doing well in college. Ironically, while he was deadset on going to a school where he could take wide variety of courses, he's now settled in and decided he really only wants to take CS and math classes. I wonder if he would have applied to different schools had he know that at the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son was pretty aggressive with his applications. With one exception, all of his applications were to schools which definitely reject most of their applicants. He has been admitted to four schools (including the safety). They are good schools, but perhaps not tippy top from a rankings perspective. Of his rejections (and there are likely going to be more tonight!), most were not shocking, or even surprising (think MIT, Amherst, Williams), but I was shocked that he didn't get into UVa. Given his academic and extracurricular profile (3.98 GPA/4.53 wGPA/35 ACT/Eagle Scout/2-year captain of HS team), I thought he was certainly going to be admitted there. Nothing but a sea of green checkmarks around him on the Naviance scattergram, with out any red anywhere nearby. He applied EA, but not ED, and was deferred and ultimately waitlisted. I remain shocked that he didn't get in, but I suppose this may be the new normal.

+1 - same stats, same EC and same result.

Pls let us know how today goes. But also, if your kid has 4 acceptances to schools “that definitely reject most of their applicants” that sounds like a super successful cycle, despite UVA? Am I missing something? Also do you mind sharing major?

In at Northeastern, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, and JMU. Very good merit award from Northeastern. Interested in a business major. Has taken 5 AP tests (World History, Spanish Lang., Psychology, U.S. Gov't, AB Calc), with 2 5's, 2 4's, and a 3.

No complaints about his options, but am curious (in an abstract way) about what admits at Williams and Amherst showed in their applications that he did not.

Was the 3 in calc? That might have been a red flag for business major. I am surprised at UVA too, given a 35, calc and 4 years of language in HS and assuming in state. But the smaller colleges I think it is more about building a class and the admit rates are Ivy-level hard. It is certainly possible they had other Eagle Scouts with perfect APs, for example. I don’t think there is anything wrong with your kid but rather the classes are so small at Williams and Amherst.

Please know that I don’t say any of this as a knock on your kid - he has great choices will lead a successful life! I would hire an Eagle Scout any day of the week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son was pretty aggressive with his applications. With one exception, all of his applications were to schools which definitely reject most of their applicants. He has been admitted to four schools (including the safety). They are good schools, but perhaps not tippy top from a rankings perspective. Of his rejections (and there are likely going to be more tonight!), most were not shocking, or even surprising (think MIT, Amherst, Williams), but I was shocked that he didn't get into UVa. Given his academic and extracurricular profile (3.98 GPA/4.53 wGPA/35 ACT/Eagle Scout/2-year captain of HS team), I thought he was certainly going to be admitted there. Nothing but a sea of green checkmarks around him on the Naviance scattergram, with out any red anywhere nearby. He applied EA, but not ED, and was deferred and ultimately waitlisted. I remain shocked that he didn't get in, but I suppose this may be the new normal.

+1 - same stats, same EC and same result.

Pls let us know how today goes. But also, if your kid has 4 acceptances to schools “that definitely reject most of their applicants” that sounds like a super successful cycle, despite UVA? Am I missing something? Also do you mind sharing major?

In at Northeastern, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, and JMU. Very good merit award from Northeastern. Interested in a business major. Has taken 5 AP tests (World History, Spanish Lang., Psychology, U.S. Gov't, AB Calc), with 2 5's, 2 4's, and a 3.

No complaints about his options, but am curious (in an abstract way) about what admits at Williams and Amherst showed in their applications that he did not.

Was the 3 in calc? That might have been a red flag for business major. I am surprised at UVA too, given a 35, calc and 4 years of language in HS and assuming in state. But the smaller colleges I think it is more about building a class and the admit rates are Ivy-level hard. It is certainly possible they had other Eagle Scouts with perfect APs, for example. I don’t think there is anything wrong with your kid but rather the classes are so small at Williams and Amherst.

Please know that I don’t say any of this as a knock on your kid - he has great choices will lead a successful life! I would hire an Eagle Scout any day of the week.

I should add that my kid got a b+ in freshmen year English and junior year Calc, which likely kills his chances at UVA too. I can rationalize all I want about how there is no grade inflation at his school or that he took calc as a junior but it likely makes him unlikely candidate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son was pretty aggressive with his applications. With one exception, all of his applications were to schools which definitely reject most of their applicants. He has been admitted to four schools (including the safety). They are good schools, but perhaps not tippy top from a rankings perspective. Of his rejections (and there are likely going to be more tonight!), most were not shocking, or even surprising (think MIT, Amherst, Williams), but I was shocked that he didn't get into UVa. Given his academic and extracurricular profile (3.98 GPA/4.53 wGPA/35 ACT/Eagle Scout/2-year captain of HS team), I thought he was certainly going to be admitted there. Nothing but a sea of green checkmarks around him on the Naviance scattergram, with out any red anywhere nearby. He applied EA, but not ED, and was deferred and ultimately waitlisted. I remain shocked that he didn't get in, but I suppose this may be the new normal.

+1 - same stats, same EC and same result.

Pls let us know how today goes. But also, if your kid has 4 acceptances to schools “that definitely reject most of their applicants” that sounds like a super successful cycle, despite UVA? Am I missing something? Also do you mind sharing major?

In at Northeastern, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, and JMU. Very good merit award from Northeastern. Interested in a business major. Has taken 5 AP tests (World History, Spanish Lang., Psychology, U.S. Gov't, AB Calc), with 2 5's, 2 4's, and a 3.

No complaints about his options, but am curious (in an abstract way) about what admits at Williams and Amherst showed in their applications that he did not.

Was the 3 in calc? That might have been a red flag for business major. I am surprised at UVA too, given a 35, calc and 4 years of language in HS and assuming in state. But the smaller colleges I think it is more about building a class and the admit rates are Ivy-level hard. It is certainly possible they had other Eagle Scouts with perfect APs, for example. I don’t think there is anything wrong with your kid but rather the classes are so small at Williams and Amherst.

Please know that I don’t say any of this as a knock on your kid - he has great choices will lead a successful life! I would hire an Eagle Scout any day of the week.

Nope. Psych (taken in the first spring of COVID) was a 3. Calc was a 4. Thanks for the kind words about my son.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son was pretty aggressive with his applications. With one exception, all of his applications were to schools which definitely reject most of their applicants. He has been admitted to four schools (including the safety). They are good schools, but perhaps not tippy top from a rankings perspective. Of his rejections (and there are likely going to be more tonight!), most were not shocking, or even surprising (think MIT, Amherst, Williams), but I was shocked that he didn't get into UVa. Given his academic and extracurricular profile (3.98 GPA/4.53 wGPA/35 ACT/Eagle Scout/2-year captain of HS team), I thought he was certainly going to be admitted there. Nothing but a sea of green checkmarks around him on the Naviance scattergram, with out any red anywhere nearby. He applied EA, but not ED, and was deferred and ultimately waitlisted. I remain shocked that he didn't get in, but I suppose this may be the new normal.

+1 - same stats, same EC and same result.

Pls let us know how today goes. But also, if your kid has 4 acceptances to schools “that definitely reject most of their applicants” that sounds like a super successful cycle, despite UVA? Am I missing something? Also do you mind sharing major?

In at Northeastern, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, and JMU. Very good merit award from Northeastern. Interested in a business major. Has taken 5 AP tests (World History, Spanish Lang., Psychology, U.S. Gov't, AB Calc), with 2 5's, 2 4's, and a 3.

No complaints about his options, but am curious (in an abstract way) about what admits at Williams and Amherst showed in their applications that he did not.

Was the 3 in calc? That might have been a red flag for business major. I am surprised at UVA too, given a 35, calc and 4 years of language in HS and assuming in state. But the smaller colleges I think it is more about building a class and the admit rates are Ivy-level hard. It is certainly possible they had other Eagle Scouts with perfect APs, for example. I don’t think there is anything wrong with your kid but rather the classes are so small at Williams and Amherst.

Please know that I don’t say any of this as a knock on your kid - he has great choices will lead a successful life! I would hire an Eagle Scout any day of the week.

Nope. Psych (taken in the first spring of COVID) was a 3. Calc was a 4. Thanks for the kind words about my son.

Definitely UVA’s loss. fwiw, thanks for being so honest and candid. This may sound strange on an anon board but you seem like a very grounded parent. No wonder your kid sounds great!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We were not shocked but did get some terrible advice from the school counselor (i.e., no need to apply to more than 6 schools, EA does not matter, you should "definitely get into" some schools we knew would be hard targets/reaches, etc...). Naviance also seems to be out of date for a number of schools.

So I can see where parents might be shocked.

With the new paradigm of the post COVID era, Naviance is almost completely irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of a HS junior who is now terrified. Student has a 34 ACT and 4.3 WGPA, will have 10 APs total, so far all 5s on those taken in 9th and 10th.

Sounds like all the schools he thought were targets are actually reaches, what he thought were safetys are now targets, and I cannot imagine what actual safetys will be because he will be rejected for yield protection.

It is not entitlement, but there should be some expectation that if you do this, then you will get I
into that (isn't that the rubric they've been taught in MCPS from day one?!?)

But if this is true, then all other kids who are in the same boat are getting into those "safeties". The fact is that just like the Flynn effect on IQ scores, there has been a ballooning at the top. This will cause a societal understanding that there is a bigger basket of really good schools.

Show tons of interest in your "safeties". Let them know that you really want to attend. Visit/do virtual visits/open all emails and click on links/meet with admissions officers/etc---pick several safeties, and note that safety needs to be a school where you DC is above the 75% and the school's acceptance rate (for your major/area of interest) is at least 60%. Something with a 30% acceptance rate is NOT a safety.

And not there is no rubric. When schools get 60K applications for a class of 2K students, there cannot be a rubric. Because 95% of the applicants would be a "good fit"/have GPA and SAT/ACT and EC that would make them an ideal student at University X. But University X only has space for 2K students, so they will offer admissions to 3-5K students (depending upon their yield formulas), and even less really, since they will likely take ~1K students thru ED1/ED2. Which really means that there are 2-4K slots available from the ~52 Qualified students for RD process (I assume 5K ED1/ED2 and 95% of the remaining 55K are qualified).
That means an admission rate around 6-7% or lower.

Key is to opening your mind to beyond T20 USNWR ranked schools. Find true safeties, find multiple target schools, but know that targets and reaches, if rate is less than 30/40% are really a crapshoot in the end game

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We were not shocked but did get some terrible advice from the school counselor (i.e., no need to apply to more than 6 schools, EA does not matter, you should "definitely get into" some schools we knew would be hard targets/reaches, etc...). Naviance also seems to be out of date for a number of schools.

So I can see where parents might be shocked.

Wow, wow. What kind of HS? How old is the counselor? How long has the counselor worked in this area (e.g., were they a classroom teacher who pivoted to college counseling?)?

I don't think 20 is necessary for all applicants, but all those points are really, really bad advice. I hope things have worked out for your DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of a HS junior who is now terrified. Student has a 34 ACT and 4.3 WGPA, will have 10 APs total, so far all 5s on those taken in 9th and 10th.

Sounds like all the schools he thought were targets are actually reaches, what he thought were safetys are now targets, and I cannot imagine what actual safetys will be because he will be rejected for yield protection.

It is not entitlement, but there should be some expectation that if you do this, then you will get I
into that (isn't that the rubric they've been taught in MCPS from day one?!?)

There is a rubric, but the rubric has quickly changed.

Why should that be an expectation? What wrong with learning, doing well and excelling for personal gratification?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of a HS junior who is now terrified. Student has a 34 ACT and 4.3 WGPA, will have 10 APs total, so far all 5s on those taken in 9th and 10th.

Sounds like all the schools he thought were targets are actually reaches, what he thought were safetys are now targets, and I cannot imagine what actual safetys will be because he will be rejected for yield protection.

It is not entitlement, but there should be some expectation that if you do this, then you will get I
into that (isn't that the rubric they've been taught in MCPS from day one?!?)

But if this is true, then all other kids who are in the same boat are getting into those "safeties". The fact is that just like the Flynn effect on IQ scores, there has been a ballooning at the top. This will cause a societal understanding that there is a bigger basket of really good schools.

Show tons of interest in your "safeties". Let them know that you really want to attend. Visit/do virtual visits/open all emails and click on links/meet with admissions officers/etc---pick several safeties, and note that safety needs to be a school where you DC is above the 75% and the school's acceptance rate (for your major/area of interest) is at least 60%. Something with a 30% acceptance rate is NOT a safety.

And not there is no rubric. When schools get 60K applications for a class of 2K students, there cannot be a rubric. Because 95% of the applicants would be a "good fit"/have GPA and SAT/ACT and EC that would make them an ideal student at University X. But University X only has space for 2K students, so they will offer admissions to 3-5K students (depending upon their yield formulas), and even less really, since they will likely take ~1K students thru ED1/ED2. Which really means that there are 2-4K slots available from the ~52 Qualified students for RD process (I assume 5K ED1/ED2 and 95% of the remaining 55K are qualified).
That means an admission rate around 6-7% or lower.

Key is to opening your mind to beyond T20 USNWR ranked schools. Find true safeties, find multiple target schools, but know that targets and reaches, if rate is less than 30/40% are really a crapshoot in the end game

All of this, plus be full pay. Let's not forget the value of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son was pretty aggressive with his applications. With one exception, all of his applications were to schools which definitely reject most of their applicants. He has been admitted to four schools (including the safety). They are good schools, but perhaps not tippy top from a rankings perspective. Of his rejections (and there are likely going to be more tonight!), most were not shocking, or even surprising (think MIT, Amherst, Williams), but I was shocked that he didn't get into UVa. Given his academic and extracurricular profile (3.98 GPA/4.53 wGPA/35 ACT/Eagle Scout/2-year captain of HS team), I thought he was certainly going to be admitted there. Nothing but a sea of green checkmarks around him on the Naviance scattergram, with out any red anywhere nearby. He applied EA, but not ED, and was deferred and ultimately waitlisted. I remain shocked that he didn't get in, but I suppose this may be the new normal.

+1 - same stats, same EC and same result.

Pls let us know how today goes. But also, if your kid has 4 acceptances to schools “that definitely reject most of their applicants” that sounds like a super successful cycle, despite UVA? Am I missing something? Also do you mind sharing major?

In at Northeastern, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, and JMU. Very good merit award from Northeastern. Interested in a business major. Has taken 5 AP tests (World History, Spanish Lang., Psychology, U.S. Gov't, AB Calc), with 2 5's, 2 4's, and a 3.

No complaints about his options, but am curious (in an abstract way) about what admits at Williams and Amherst showed in their applications that he did not.

Possibly APs @ all 5s? Eagle Scout is noteworthy in these times (just not as many as there used to be); HS sports captains are not, even if selected when junior. Think Amherst, Williams are big on hooks even if Amherst no longer considering legacy in the way that it used to do.

While our DC not considering UVA, we had been told that applicants really needed to consider ED to be taken seriously.

Your DC has good options and hope that he feels good about them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son was pretty aggressive with his applications. With one exception, all of his applications were to schools which definitely reject most of their applicants. He has been admitted to four schools (including the safety). They are good schools, but perhaps not tippy top from a rankings perspective. Of his rejections (and there are likely going to be more tonight!), most were not shocking, or even surprising (think MIT, Amherst, Williams), but I was shocked that he didn't get into UVa. Given his academic and extracurricular profile (3.98 GPA/4.53 wGPA/35 ACT/Eagle Scout/2-year captain of HS team), I thought he was certainly going to be admitted there. Nothing but a sea of green checkmarks around him on the Naviance scattergram, with out any red anywhere nearby. He applied EA, but not ED, and was deferred and ultimately waitlisted. I remain shocked that he didn't get in, but I suppose this may be the new normal.

+1 - same stats, same EC and same result.

Pls let us know how today goes. But also, if your kid has 4 acceptances to schools “that definitely reject most of their applicants” that sounds like a super successful cycle, despite UVA? Am I missing something? Also do you mind sharing major?

I agree with this take. Your kid was accepted to 4 good schools! Why isn't this something to celebrate? Somehow we've moved into assuming that good students should be accepted everywhere they apply?