For parents that were shocked their kids didn't get accepted...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where you unaware of the significant increase in applications since COVID? Did you think TO would have no effect on the applicant pool? Did anyone (e.g., college counselor) discuss yield projection for perceived "safety" schools? Do you consider the math/odds in applying to a school that accepts less than 20% of applicants? Did you discuss any of these issues with your kids before they applied? Or is it something else?

Quick question for a parent just starting the process - what's "TO"??
Thank you!!

[Anonymous]

TO = Test Optional

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parent of a HS junior who is now terrified. Student has a 34 ACT and 4.3 WGPA, will have 10 APs total, so far all 5s on those taken in 9th and 10th.

Sounds like all the schools he thought were targets are actually reaches, what he thought were safetys are now targets, and I cannot imagine what actual safetys will be because he will be rejected for yield protection.

It is not entitlement, but there should be some expectation that if you do this, then you will get I
into that (isn't that the rubric they've been taught in MCPS from day one?!?)

But if this is true, then all other kids who are in the same boat are getting into those "safeties". The fact is that just like the Flynn effect on IQ scores, there has been a ballooning at the top. This will cause a societal understanding that there is a bigger basket of really good schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where you unaware of the significant increase in applications since COVID? Did you think TO would have no effect on the applicant pool? Did anyone (e.g., college counselor) discuss yield projection for perceived "safety" schools? Do you consider the math/odds in applying to a school that accepts less than 20% of applicants? Did you discuss any of these issues with your kids before they applied? Or is it something else?

I heard there was expected to be a huge increase in applications but I wasn't sure what that impact would be. We figured that the schools would still look at tests for those students that did submit them. I remember seeing statistics showing that for TO schools in the prior year, the acceptance rate was higher for students that did submit test scores. We guessed that the increase in applications is mainly from students who are reaching at schools that they normally would not have applied to and that the schools will still find a way to admit students according to their normal standards. In short, we figured that TO was largely a form of virtue signaling. Apparently, we were wrong.

My kid's counselor was very reassuring to our kid regarding his chances of being accepted. Looking at the Naviance map for his ED school, his stats are in the heart of a cluster of checkmarks and only one X. Despite this, we applied to 20+ schools because ED/EA rounds completely shattered our preconceived notions. Now the counselor is voicing frustration and the sinking feeling that the students haven't been given adequate guidance this year. One student with a 3.6 GPA and 1350 SAT applied to a "normal" number of schools and did not get into any of them.

We did consider the math/odds but felt confident about our kid's stats, ECs, recommendations, and essay quality. Even if he has bad luck at one, two, three, or four schools, he should not have bad luck at 10 or 20 schools. We are engineers and we understand statistics; both of us are also in administrative roles and write documents targeted toward a variety of audiences so we understand the importance of connecting with the reader. I believe we were rationally optimistic based on the then-best-available information.

I do want to congratulate all the students that got into a school that they are happy with. It's a valuable opportunity and I wish them the very best.

And???

And is right.

And by the way, if this is a public school you're talking about, all you're doing is proving our point. A 3.6 GPA is inconsistent with a 1350 SAT score.

NP, still waiting to hear how a 3.6 is inconsistent with a 1350. Should the SAT score be lower or higher?

If a kid is doing 3.6 level work, then the SAT should be higher - at least 1400, and probably 1450. That's why I asked if it's a public school. A 3.6 at a public school is not the same as a 3.6 at a private.

You assertion does not take into account a student's test-taking abilities. My DD is super-bright and has always done well in math, but she does not do well on the math portion of standardized tests because she can never finish in time. She has tried everything (tutors, etc.), so it really is about her test-taking abilities (or lack thereof).

How does she handle timed test taking in HS classes? What makes the difference there for her? Added pressure of it being a high stakes test? The possibly strange environment of the test center?

I am just trying to wrap my head around. In their future college careers they will be confronted with many high stakes tests.

[Anonymous]

Parent of 10th grader here. DS works hard (I'd say just about to his personal max) for a normal honors/AP track, weighted 3.9 GPA. His PSAT cold was around 1250 equivalent. Even assuming he could get that to a 1400 (no guarantee), I'm wondering now if he should just focus on keeping up this grades and rigorous courseload and apply to schools without scores? It seems the top 45+ or so, and maybe many more schools are already out of reach. Why force all the stress?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where you unaware of the significant increase in applications since COVID? Did you think TO would have no effect on the applicant pool? Did anyone (e.g., college counselor) discuss yield projection for perceived "safety" schools? Do you consider the math/odds in applying to a school that accepts less than 20% of applicants? Did you discuss any of these issues with your kids before they applied? Or is it something else?

I heard there was expected to be a huge increase in applications but I wasn't sure what that impact would be. We figured that the schools would still look at tests for those students that did submit them. I remember seeing statistics showing that for TO schools in the prior year, the acceptance rate was higher for students that did submit test scores. We guessed that the increase in applications is mainly from students who are reaching at schools that they normally would not have applied to and that the schools will still find a way to admit students according to their normal standards. In short, we figured that TO was largely a form of virtue signaling. Apparently, we were wrong.

My kid's counselor was very reassuring to our kid regarding his chances of being accepted. Looking at the Naviance map for his ED school, his stats are in the heart of a cluster of checkmarks and only one X. Despite this, we applied to 20+ schools because ED/EA rounds completely shattered our preconceived notions. Now the counselor is voicing frustration and the sinking feeling that the students haven't been given adequate guidance this year. One student with a 3.6 GPA and 1350 SAT applied to a "normal" number of schools and did not get into any of them.

We did consider the math/odds but felt confident about our kid's stats, ECs, recommendations, and essay quality. Even if he has bad luck at one, two, three, or four schools, he should not have bad luck at 10 or 20 schools. We are engineers and we understand statistics; both of us are also in administrative roles and write documents targeted toward a variety of audiences so we understand the importance of connecting with the reader. I believe we were rationally optimistic based on the then-best-available information.

I do want to congratulate all the students that got into a school that they are happy with. It's a valuable opportunity and I wish them the very best.

And???

And is right.

And by the way, if this is a public school you're talking about, all you're doing is proving our point. A 3.6 GPA is inconsistent with a 1350 SAT score.

NP, still waiting to hear how a 3.6 is inconsistent with a 1350. Should the SAT score be lower or higher?

If a kid is doing 3.6 level work, then the SAT should be higher - at least 1400, and probably 1450. That's why I asked if it's a public school. A 3.6 at a public school is not the same as a 3.6 at a private.

You assertion does not take into account a student's test-taking abilities. My DD is super-bright and has always done well in math, but she does not do well on the math portion of standardized tests because she can never finish in time. She has tried everything (tutors, etc.), so it really is about her test-taking abilities (or lack thereof).

How does she handle timed test taking in HS classes? What makes the difference there for her? Added pressure of it being a high stakes test? The possibly strange environment of the test center?

I am just trying to wrap my head around. In their future college careers they will be confronted with many high stakes tests.

NP. Not as a humanities or social sciences major. And I don’t mean that as a slight, it’s just that essays and papers are different than high-stakes exams.

[Anonymous]

My son was pretty aggressive with his applications. With one exception, all of his applications were to schools which definitely reject most of their applicants. He has been admitted to four schools (including the safety). They are good schools, but perhaps not tippy top from a rankings perspective. Of his rejections (and there are likely going to be more tonight!), most were not shocking, or even surprising (think MIT, Amherst, Williams), but I was shocked that he didn't get into UVa. Given his academic and extracurricular profile (3.98 GPA/4.53 wGPA/35 ACT/Eagle Scout/2-year captain of HS team), I thought he was certainly going to be admitted there. Nothing but a sea of green checkmarks around him on the Naviance scattergram, with out any red anywhere nearby. He applied EA, but not ED, and was deferred and ultimately waitlisted. I remain shocked that he didn't get in, but I suppose this may be the new normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son was pretty aggressive with his applications. With one exception, all of his applications were to schools which definitely reject most of their applicants. He has been admitted to four schools (including the safety). They are good schools, but perhaps not tippy top from a rankings perspective. Of his rejections (and there are likely going to be more tonight!), most were not shocking, or even surprising (think MIT, Amherst, Williams), but I was shocked that he didn't get into UVa. Given his academic and extracurricular profile (3.98 GPA/4.53 wGPA/35 ACT/Eagle Scout/2-year captain of HS team), I thought he was certainly going to be admitted there. Nothing but a sea of green checkmarks around him on the Naviance scattergram, with out any red anywhere nearby. He applied EA, but not ED, and was deferred and ultimately waitlisted. I remain shocked that he didn't get in, but I suppose this may be the new normal.

+1 - same stats, same EC and same result.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parent of 10th grader here. DS works hard (I'd say just about to his personal max) for a normal honors/AP track, weighted 3.9 GPA. His PSAT cold was around 1250 equivalent. Even assuming he could get that to a 1400 (no guarantee), I'm wondering now if he should just focus on keeping up this grades and rigorous courseload and apply to schools without scores? It seems the top 45+ or so, and maybe many more schools are already out of reach. Why force all the stress?

+1

You get it.

[Anonymous]

We were not shocked but did get some terrible advice from the school counselor (i.e., no need to apply to more than 6 schools, EA does not matter, you should "definitely get into" some schools we knew would be hard targets/reaches, etc...). Naviance also seems to be out of date for a number of schools.

So I can see where parents might be shocked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son was pretty aggressive with his applications. With one exception, all of his applications were to schools which definitely reject most of their applicants. He has been admitted to four schools (including the safety). They are good schools, but perhaps not tippy top from a rankings perspective. Of his rejections (and there are likely going to be more tonight!), most were not shocking, or even surprising (think MIT, Amherst, Williams), but I was shocked that he didn't get into UVa. Given his academic and extracurricular profile (3.98 GPA/4.53 wGPA/35 ACT/Eagle Scout/2-year captain of HS team), I thought he was certainly going to be admitted there. Nothing but a sea of green checkmarks around him on the Naviance scattergram, with out any red anywhere nearby. He applied EA, but not ED, and was deferred and ultimately waitlisted. I remain shocked that he didn't get in, but I suppose this may be the new normal.

+1 - same stats, same EC and same result.

Pls let us know how today goes. But also, if your kid has 4 acceptances to schools “that definitely reject most of their applicants” that sounds like a super successful cycle, despite UVA? Am I missing something? Also do you mind sharing major?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We were not shocked but did get some terrible advice from the school counselor (i.e., no need to apply to more than 6 schools, EA does not matter, you should "definitely get into" some schools we knew would be hard targets/reaches, etc...). Naviance also seems to be out of date for a number of schools.

So I can see where parents might be shocked.

Could you offer more details? Did you listen to counselor? Is your kid totally locked out with no choices, and if so, what does the counselor recommend? What types of schools were on your kid’s list?

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where you unaware of the significant increase in applications since COVID? Did you think TO would have no effect on the applicant pool? Did anyone (e.g., college counselor) discuss yield projection for perceived "safety" schools? Do you consider the math/odds in applying to a school that accepts less than 20% of applicants? Did you discuss any of these issues with your kids before they applied? Or is it something else?

I heard there was expected to be a huge increase in applications but I wasn't sure what that impact would be. We figured that the schools would still look at tests for those students that did submit them. I remember seeing statistics showing that for TO schools in the prior year, the acceptance rate was higher for students that did submit test scores. We guessed that the increase in applications is mainly from students who are reaching at schools that they normally would not have applied to and that the schools will still find a way to admit students according to their normal standards. In short, we figured that TO was largely a form of virtue signaling. Apparently, we were wrong.

My kid's counselor was very reassuring to our kid regarding his chances of being accepted. Looking at the Naviance map for his ED school, his stats are in the heart of a cluster of checkmarks and only one X. Despite this, we applied to 20+ schools because ED/EA rounds completely shattered our preconceived notions. Now the counselor is voicing frustration and the sinking feeling that the students haven't been given adequate guidance this year. One student with a 3.6 GPA and 1350 SAT applied to a "normal" number of schools and did not get into any of them.

We did consider the math/odds but felt confident about our kid's stats, ECs, recommendations, and essay quality. Even if he has bad luck at one, two, three, or four schools, he should not have bad luck at 10 or 20 schools. We are engineers and we understand statistics; both of us are also in administrative roles and write documents targeted toward a variety of audiences so we understand the importance of connecting with the reader. I believe we were rationally optimistic based on the then-best-available information.

I do want to congratulate all the students that got into a school that they are happy with. It's a valuable opportunity and I wish them the very best.

And???

And is right.

And by the way, if this is a public school you're talking about, all you're doing is proving our point. A 3.6 GPA is inconsistent with a 1350 SAT score.

NP, still waiting to hear how a 3.6 is inconsistent with a 1350. Should the SAT score be lower or higher?

If a kid is doing 3.6 level work, then the SAT should be higher - at least 1400, and probably 1450. That's why I asked if it's a public school. A 3.6 at a public school is not the same as a 3.6 at a private.

You assertion does not take into account a student's test-taking abilities. My DD is super-bright and has always done well in math, but she does not do well on the math portion of standardized tests because she can never finish in time. She has tried everything (tutors, etc.), so it really is about her test-taking abilities (or lack thereof).

How does she handle timed test taking in HS classes? What makes the difference there for her? Added pressure of it being a high stakes test? The possibly strange environment of the test center?

I am just trying to wrap my head around. In their future college careers they will be confronted with many high stakes tests.

Not the quotes poster, but I have a kid who is really, really bright and a super deep thinker. Timed tests are tough for her because she thinks through things. She comes up with great answers in time, but often comes at them in a different direction. For math, she needs to understand the why and can’t memorize the algorithm and plug it in so she has always been slow to learn it but gets it on a deep level when she does. No less intelligent than most advanced kids (probably more intelligent than most), but a deeper, different learner. The tests don’t give her time to think through the problems.

She ended up with a 34 on the ACT, which was fine for the colleges she wanted. In college (sophomore now), she has a 3.95, so it has not impacted her. I think there are relatively few high stakes tests once you get into college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where you unaware of the significant increase in applications since COVID? Did you think TO would have no effect on the applicant pool? Did anyone (e.g., college counselor) discuss yield projection for perceived "safety" schools? Do you consider the math/odds in applying to a school that accepts less than 20% of applicants? Did you discuss any of these issues with your kids before they applied? Or is it something else?

I heard there was expected to be a huge increase in applications but I wasn't sure what that impact would be. We figured that the schools would still look at tests for those students that did submit them. I remember seeing statistics showing that for TO schools in the prior year, the acceptance rate was higher for students that did submit test scores. We guessed that the increase in applications is mainly from students who are reaching at schools that they normally would not have applied to and that the schools will still find a way to admit students according to their normal standards. In short, we figured that TO was largely a form of virtue signaling. Apparently, we were wrong.

My kid's counselor was very reassuring to our kid regarding his chances of being accepted. Looking at the Naviance map for his ED school, his stats are in the heart of a cluster of checkmarks and only one X. Despite this, we applied to 20+ schools because ED/EA rounds completely shattered our preconceived notions. Now the counselor is voicing frustration and the sinking feeling that the students haven't been given adequate guidance this year. One student with a 3.6 GPA and 1350 SAT applied to a "normal" number of schools and did not get into any of them.

We did consider the math/odds but felt confident about our kid's stats, ECs, recommendations, and essay quality. Even if he has bad luck at one, two, three, or four schools, he should not have bad luck at 10 or 20 schools. We are engineers and we understand statistics; both of us are also in administrative roles and write documents targeted toward a variety of audiences so we understand the importance of connecting with the reader. I believe we were rationally optimistic based on the then-best-available information.

I do want to congratulate all the students that got into a school that they are happy with. It's a valuable opportunity and I wish them the very best.

And???

And is right.

And by the way, if this is a public school you're talking about, all you're doing is proving our point. A 3.6 GPA is inconsistent with a 1350 SAT score.

NP, still waiting to hear how a 3.6 is inconsistent with a 1350. Should the SAT score be lower or higher?

If a kid is doing 3.6 level work, then the SAT should be higher - at least 1400, and probably 1450. That's why I asked if it's a public school. A 3.6 at a public school is not the same as a 3.6 at a private.

You assertion does not take into account a student's test-taking abilities. My DD is super-bright and has always done well in math, but she does not do well on the math portion of standardized tests because she can never finish in time. She has tried everything (tutors, etc.), so it really is about her test-taking abilities (or lack thereof).

How does she handle timed test taking in HS classes? What makes the difference there for her? Added pressure of it being a high stakes test? The possibly strange environment of the test center?

I am just trying to wrap my head around. In their future college careers they will be confronted with many high stakes tests.

Not the quotes poster, but I have a kid who is really, really bright and a super deep thinker. Timed tests are tough for her because she thinks through things. She comes up with great answers in time, but often comes at them in a different direction. For math, she needs to understand the why and can’t memorize the algorithm and plug it in so she has always been slow to learn it but gets it on a deep level when she does. No less intelligent than most advanced kids (probably more intelligent than most), but a deeper, different learner. The tests don’t give her time to think through the problems.

She ended up with a 34 on the ACT, which was fine for the colleges she wanted. In college (sophomore now), she has a 3.95, so it has not impacted her. I think there are relatively few high stakes tests once you get into college.

.

PP here. I will add that in college, she was taking a class on a very obscure, niche topic and the professor was blown away by how she thought about an issue and her analysis. He has been studying this topic for over 40 years and has never had someone approach it that way. So I think colleges should WANT these students. She oozes intellectual curiosity. The fact that she couldn’t get to a 36 shouldn’t matter (although she did not want top, top schools because she hates the competition and wants to learn for the sake of learning, not for a grade. She went to a pressure cooker HS and as burned out).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parent of a HS junior who is now terrified. Student has a 34 ACT and 4.3 WGPA, will have 10 APs total, so far all 5s on those taken in 9th and 10th.

Sounds like all the schools he thought were targets are actually reaches, what he thought were safetys are now targets, and I cannot imagine what actual safetys will be because he will be rejected for yield protection.

It is not entitlement, but there should be some expectation that if you do this, then you will get I
into that (isn't that the rubric they've been taught in MCPS from day one?!?)

I think this realization - targets are reaches, safeties are targets, reaches are probably out of reach - is one that many many families have had to learn, and not just this year (even though this year is worse.) My MCPS senior has a 4.5wgpa and a year ago we dragged him and his similarly situated cousin around Georgetown thinking it could be a realistic option. We figured out quickly it was not, nor were many of the other schools that were safeties for me a very long time ago but are now incredibly competitive. My kid came out fine - picked a top SLAC and happened to win the ED1 lottery - but it's a brutal process and requires all involved to be realistic or even pessimistic and strategic about how your kid approaches the application process.