So much disappointment this week

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When people share stats as evidence of racial preference, either anecdotally or with aggregate data, the response is “stats aren’t everything.” When they, instead, point to softer things like leadership skills, that is dismissed too.

Schools admit to race-based decision making but when someone implies race was a factor in decision making, they are called out as racist.

Why are people who support affirmative action so unwilling to acknowledge it, and so quick to name call those who do? Living in North Dakota is an advantage too, and calling this out doesn’t mean I have prejudice or ill will towards North Dakotans. But the advantage is still real and we shouldn’t deny it.

But that just isn’t true. A kid growing up in ND will be hard pressed to find math contests & science research going on around them. Their high school is not likely to have the culture of achievement that yields the slew of AP scores of 5 that elite schools want for STEM majors. At some high schools you just have to simply get As in your challenging, but pedagogically-sound classes to end up well-prepared enough for standardized tests. You don’t have to self-study for multiple exams. They are just very, very unlikely to have the caliber of application that a kid in Brookline or Scarsdale has. Therefore when a rural kid does, their application immediately makes eyes pop.

I hate linking youtubers, but there’s a YouTuber who is at Princeton who grew up in rural Idaho. Her stats were impeccable, and they would have had to be to even get a look.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When people share stats as evidence of racial preference, either anecdotally or with aggregate data, the response is “stats aren’t everything.” When they, instead, point to softer things like leadership skills, that is dismissed too.

Schools admit to race-based decision making but when someone implies race was a factor in decision making, they are called out as racist.

Why are people who support affirmative action so unwilling to acknowledge it, and so quick to name call those who do? Living in North Dakota is an advantage too, and calling this out doesn’t mean I have prejudice or ill will towards North Dakotans. But the advantage is still real and we shouldn’t deny it.

This is like my federal government job. You don’t dare imply that the preference is for the agency to hire and/ or promote minorities who aren’t as qualified to show diversity and inclusion Lest you be called a “racist”.

[Anonymous]

If living in North Dakota is so great why don’t you move there? If Compton is so great why not move there?

[Anonymous]

Wow, I guess there really are people who have ill will towards North Dakota!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all these “high stat” kids, how many of you are also submitting 4’s or 5’s from
Your AP tests to show that you actually earned the A? Thay may be the difference in many cases. Lots and lots of public high schools are handing out A’s way too easily. And as for SAT scores, does anyone find it weird that 1400
And 1500 scores seem like a dime a dozen these days? The curve is unreal which is even making those seem less valuable. You have to show you earned those A’s so you need AP Scores and you need excellent teacher recommendations.

+1. For anybody reading this who has not had a kid go through the process, a "high stats" gpa--and gpa is very important--at a public in fcps or mcps is a 4.0 uw. If your kid is below that have realistic expectations. It doesn't mean they won't get into a selective school, but they need options. For anybody "unhooked", regardless of their stats, make sure they have a couple of safeties they are excited about attending.

This is true. If you don't have straight As, you are in for a world of hurt. Sadly, this isn't going to help the mental health of highly capable students for years to come. The pressure of one test is nothing compared to the day in day out pressure to never make a mistake or have a bad day. I think colleges have just made the whole mental health problem much, much worse.

+1.

My next kid is not interested in any of this. He took calc BC as a soph, but is choosing fewer weighted classes than he could for junior year. He has a 4.0 uw and will likely have a high standardized test score. He seems to be opting out of aspiring for highly selective schools, i.e. rejects the idea of playing the game. Does not want the stress of the competition to get there, nor a competitive atmosphere when he does. (Which reminds me, "collaborative rather than competitive" is now a factor for his college search, whenever that begins.)

My “high stats” DD did the same. She was at a pressure cooker school and hated the competition. She didn’t apply to T25 because she had no desire to go to school with competitive gunners who are all about the grade. She chose a less selective (but still great) school and could not be happier. She found her place and her people.

DD is a junior at Whitman High School in Bethesda. I can’t wait to get her the h@ll out of this school. Snooty kids who get over 1400 on first SAT run around talking about how they or their parents want them to take the test again because what they got isn’t good enough. It completely deflated my daughter . It’s gross. These kids and their parents are just gross .

My older kids have gone through Whitman. The behavior you describe is not “snooty” but stats obsessed. There are certainly plenty of gunners (with gunner parents) at Whitman who place a huge emphasis on getting top grades and test scores. But it’s a massive school, and there are also tons of kids who are focused more on activities they enjoy, including hanging with friends. You are in a position to help your daughter with an excellent learning opportunity right now. She still has time to focus on kids and things she genuinely enjoys, and her ability to become a happy resilient person will increase a lot if she is not comparing herself with zero-sum gamers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When people share stats as evidence of racial preference, either anecdotally or with aggregate data, the response is “stats aren’t everything.” When they, instead, point to softer things like leadership skills, that is dismissed too.

Schools admit to race-based decision making but when someone implies race was a factor in decision making, they are called out as racist.

Why are people who support affirmative action so unwilling to acknowledge it, and so quick to name call those who do? Living in North Dakota is an advantage too, and calling this out doesn’t mean I have prejudice or ill will towards North Dakotans. But the advantage is still real and we shouldn’t deny it.

This is like my federal government job. You don’t dare imply that the preference is for the agency to hire and/ or promote minorities who aren’t as qualified to show diversity and inclusion Lest you be called a “racist”.

It's because of the bold statement. You are all automatically assuming that URM "aren't as qualified" as the white candidates/applicants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When people share stats as evidence of racial preference, either anecdotally or with aggregate data, the response is “stats aren’t everything.” When they, instead, point to softer things like leadership skills, that is dismissed too.

Schools admit to race-based decision making but when someone implies race was a factor in decision making, they are called out as racist.

Why are people who support affirmative action so unwilling to acknowledge it, and so quick to name call those who do? Living in North Dakota is an advantage too, and calling this out doesn’t mean I have prejudice or ill will towards North Dakotans. But the advantage is still real and we shouldn’t deny it.

This is like my federal government job. You don’t dare imply that the preference is for the agency to hire and/ or promote minorities who aren’t as qualified to show diversity and inclusion Lest you be called a “racist”.

It's because of the bold statement. You are all automatically assuming that URM "aren't as qualified" as the white candidates/applicants.

Sorry, bolded it now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When people share stats as evidence of racial preference, either anecdotally or with aggregate data, the response is “stats aren’t everything.” When they, instead, point to softer things like leadership skills, that is dismissed too.

Schools admit to race-based decision making but when someone implies race was a factor in decision making, they are called out as racist.

Why are people who support affirmative action so unwilling to acknowledge it, and so quick to name call those who do? Living in North Dakota is an advantage too, and calling this out doesn’t mean I have prejudice or ill will towards North Dakotans. But the advantage is still real and we shouldn’t deny it.

This is like my federal government job. You don’t dare imply that the preference is for the agency to hire and/ or promote minorities who aren’t as qualified to show diversity and inclusion Lest you be called a “racist”.

Yes, I don't understand it either. The school themselves make statements about how their number one goal is to increase minority enrollment. And then people on here deny race impacts admissions.
For the love of Pete. Race-based admissions is very much a thing and it's okay to admit it. The schools themselves do!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When people share stats as evidence of racial preference, either anecdotally or with aggregate data, the response is “stats aren’t everything.” When they, instead, point to softer things like leadership skills, that is dismissed too.

Schools admit to race-based decision making but when someone implies race was a factor in decision making, they are called out as racist.

Why are people who support affirmative action so unwilling to acknowledge it, and so quick to name call those who do? Living in North Dakota is an advantage too, and calling this out doesn’t mean I have prejudice or ill will towards North Dakotans. But the advantage is still real and we shouldn’t deny it.

But that just isn’t true. A kid growing up in ND will be hard pressed to find math contests & science research going on around them. Their high school is not likely to have the culture of achievement that yields the slew of AP scores of 5 that elite schools want for STEM majors. At some high schools you just have to simply get As in your challenging, but pedagogically-sound classes to end up well-prepared enough for standardized tests. You don’t have to self-study for multiple exams. They are just very, very unlikely to have the caliber of application that a kid in Brookline or Scarsdale has. Therefore when a rural kid does, their application immediately makes eyes pop.

I hate linking youtubers, but there’s a YouTuber who is at Princeton who grew up in rural Idaho. Her stats were impeccable, and they would have had to be to even get a look.

The 2 Hispanic kids I referenced attend an elite and exclusive private school in the metro NY area. No hardship there!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When people share stats as evidence of racial preference, either anecdotally or with aggregate data, the response is “stats aren’t everything.” When they, instead, point to softer things like leadership skills, that is dismissed too.

Schools admit to race-based decision making but when someone implies race was a factor in decision making, they are called out as racist.

Why are people who support affirmative action so unwilling to acknowledge it, and so quick to name call those who do? Living in North Dakota is an advantage too, and calling this out doesn’t mean I have prejudice or ill will towards North Dakotans. But the advantage is still real and we shouldn’t deny it.

This is like my federal government job. You don’t dare imply that the preference is for the agency to hire and/ or promote minorities who aren’t as qualified to show diversity and inclusion Lest you be called a “racist”.

Yes, I don't understand it either. The school themselves make statements about how their number one goal is to increase minority enrollment. And then people on here deny race impacts admissions.
For the love of Pete. Race-based admissions is very much a thing and it's okay to admit it. The schools themselves do!!!

I admit it too, and I like that it exists. You’re implying that you dislike it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When people share stats as evidence of racial preference, either anecdotally or with aggregate data, the response is “stats aren’t everything.” When they, instead, point to softer things like leadership skills, that is dismissed too.

Schools admit to race-based decision making but when someone implies race was a factor in decision making, they are called out as racist.

Why are people who support affirmative action so unwilling to acknowledge it, and so quick to name call those who do? Living in North Dakota is an advantage too, and calling this out doesn’t mean I have prejudice or ill will towards North Dakotans. But the advantage is still real and we shouldn’t deny it.

But that just isn’t true. A kid growing up in ND will be hard pressed to find math contests & science research going on around them. Their high school is not likely to have the culture of achievement that yields the slew of AP scores of 5 that elite schools want for STEM majors. At some high schools you just have to simply get As in your challenging, but pedagogically-sound classes to end up well-prepared enough for standardized tests. You don’t have to self-study for multiple exams. They are just very, very unlikely to have the caliber of application that a kid in Brookline or Scarsdale has. Therefore when a rural kid does, their application immediately makes eyes pop.

I hate linking youtubers, but there’s a YouTuber who is at Princeton who grew up in rural Idaho. Her stats were impeccable, and they would have had to be to even get a look.

The 2 Hispanic kids I referenced attend an elite and exclusive private school in the metro NY area. No hardship there!

A Hispanic kid absolutely has hardship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry. Just know she’ll end up in a place that is right for her.

I know you mean well but you don’t know that is true at all. Saying things like “everything always works out for the best” just isn’t true.

OP, my kid has also had a rough time. I am sorry your daughter is, too.

Here's the thing though: It will be alright. This is not a tragedy. Your child will go to college and it will be fine. And if it's not, she can transfer. And that's fine, too.

The best way to help your child is to know that the above is true. Let your kid wallow for a bit if they need to. It's okay to be disappointed. Don't get sucked into dreams of waitlists working out. It is highly likely that they won't. Help your kid make a choice among their acceptances. Be happy about that choice.

It will be okay.

--mom of a kid who is not happy at the school they ended up at, so will be transferring. And it's really okay.

So your kid didn't end up in a place that was right for them. PP's point proven. Don't say feel good stuff that you can't possibly know will be true.

Way to miss the point, Einstein.

Ther point is, even when things don't work out perfectly, there are options, there are skills and lessons learned along the way. It is not the end of the world.

Seriously, how about a little perspective?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

I really believe wait lists are going to move like never before given the surge in # of apps per student and you can attend only one school. I think schools will dramatically undershoot yield and need to go to the wait list.

I think schools accepted significant numbers ED, but agree wait lists will move. Unfortunately, we likely won't see movement before 5/1, when deposits are due.

Not true. DS was WL at a school and 1 week later moved to accepted. This was 2019 but it’s not uncommon to hear back well Before May 1.

Please. 2019 may as well have been in another century. This and the last election cycle are markedly different from the ones before.

Sincerely,

Parent with relative in the admissions business

Exactly. Test optional has revolutionized admissions.

I am not going to be PC - how do the truly intelligent and hard working kids stand out? And yes, I think test optional kids are a bit lazy and not intelligent.

They can try, but it doesn’t necessarily matter.

2 kids at our small private just got into Northwestern. They are in all regular classes, with a mix of A’s and Bs. They are not athletes, dancers, musicians. They hold no class office (despite running). They need FA. But they are Hispanic. The (white) all advanced class straight A class rep, musician, etc. is waitlisted. Holistic review is really about advancing demographic priorities. It is what it is.

Armchair analysis. Unless you reviewed their applications you have no real idea how they stood out. You go for the easy thing by noting their ethnicity. Because your sense of entitlement makes you unable to imagine they might have something interesting or unique to offer beyond demographics.

I say this as a mother of an intellectually brilliant white kid who got rejected or wait listed to 5 of their top choices. It is what it is.

Ps it’s kind of creepy you know those kids’ grades.

Everyone knows everything. These kids blab and complain. As you can see from their failure to be elected to any class office, they were not well-liked or respected by classmates or teachers (one was kicked out of dc’s chem class basically). So clearly not great recs. Funny that you insist on thinking they have some hidden charms just bc they are Hispanic though.

LOL on the class election assertion. Grow up. “Popularity” in the high school sense has nothing to do with how much kids are “liked.” And anyone who has moved on from a high school mentality would know that.

Also ther PP says nothing about their ethnicity means they have something interesting to offer a college. However you assume their ethnicity is the only or main reason they got in.

This is an idiotic retort. Class elections reflect leadership capability and how well your classmates respect you, which supposedly colleges prioritize. Except when they prioritize race instead.

Not at all interested in this whole argument about race but the bolded made me lol. High school leadership positions are about popularity or who you’re friends with (if the president has to pick the treasurer, for example). Of ALL the stupid things colleges want to see on resumes, leadership is the most meaningless and absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop fixating on the same 50 schools.

You can do everything “right” and not be accepted when there are tens of thousands applying for a few thousand spots at these big name schools. That’s just how it is at those schools. There will always be some disappointment at getting rejected, but if you go into the process knowing those schools have thousands of qualified applicants, you wouldn’t be shocked.

The disappointment is avoidable. Expand the horizons and don’t look at schools that will eagerly accept your kid as “lesser” institutions compared to the big names.

No one is shocked. It still sucks to go through it. Yes, the kids have likely schools, even scholarships to them, but face it-- that's no one's dream. They're going to have a moment of mourning their dreams.

Sure. But what's the excuse of some of the parents here? The ones who are so depressed, who hardly know what to say to their children? The grown adults who somehow thought their children might never experience disappointment and so are completely gobsmacked by it?

[Anonymous]

You are so sure some kid you don’t know faced hardships but when people who know kids well comment they apparently have no idea what they’re talking about!