So much disappointment this week

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, we feel your pain. Our high-stats FCPS DC (4.41w/3.89uw, mid 1500s SAT, full IB diploma, most rigorous classes) was rejected or waitlisted at every single reach/hard target this week (Rice, WashU, NU, Mich, UCLA, Berkley etc.). Looks like the figurative University of Illinois for us.

These are all reaches. What were her matches/safeties? UVA or WM are at least as good as those schools, and a whole lot cheaper.

Message to parents of future applicants - help your kids have more realistic expectations

Our matches/safeties were Wisconsin, W&M, Pitt and a few others. DC is insisting on OOS--does not want to go to W&M and refused to apply to UVA (we insisted DC apply to one VA school and they grudgingly picked W&M). You make an excellent point about managing expectations. I was thinking that since DC was well within statistical range for every reach one would pan out since we applied to several--DC was rejected at an Ivy ED and UChi ED2. To DCs credit, they are accepting the news better than I am. DC worked really hard and we wanted them to be rewarded for it.

The was a big error in your assumptions that many, many, many parents make. But statistically, applying to 10 schools with very low acceptance rates doesn't give your kid better odds of admission than applying to 1 school with very low acceptance rates.

Also "we" didn't apply; your kid did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I really believe wait lists are going to move like never before given the surge in # of apps per student and you can attend only one school. I think schools will dramatically undershoot yield and need to go to the wait list.

I think schools accepted significant numbers ED, but agree wait lists will move. Unfortunately, we likely won't see movement before 5/1, when deposits are due.

Not true. DS was WL at a school and 1 week later moved to accepted. This was 2019 but it’s not uncommon to hear back well Before May 1.

Please. 2019 may as well have been in another century. This and the last election cycle are markedly different from the ones before.

Sincerely,

Parent with relative in the admissions business

Exactly. Test optional has revolutionized admissions.

I am not going to be PC - how do the truly intelligent and hard working kids stand out? And yes, I think test optional kids are a bit lazy and not intelligent.

They can try, but it doesn’t necessarily matter.

2 kids at our small private just got into Northwestern. They are in all regular classes, with a mix of A’s and Bs. They are not athletes, dancers, musicians. They hold no class office (despite running). They need FA. But they are Hispanic. The (white) all advanced class straight A class rep, musician, etc. is waitlisted. Holistic review is really about advancing demographic priorities. It is what it is.

Armchair analysis. Unless you reviewed their applications you have no real idea how they stood out. You go for the easy thing by noting their ethnicity. Because your sense of entitlement makes you unable to imagine they might have something interesting or unique to offer beyond demographics.

I say this as a mother of an intellectually brilliant white kid who got rejected or wait listed to 5 of their top choices. It is what it is.

Ps it’s kind of creepy you know those kids’ grades.

Everyone knows everything. These kids blab and complain. As you can see from their failure to be elected to any class office, they were not well-liked or respected by classmates or teachers (one was kicked out of dc’s chem class basically). So clearly not great recs. Funny that you insist on thinking they have some hidden charms just bc they are Hispanic though.

Almost as funny as you assuming they only got in because they’re Hispanic.

Not PP but it’s hard to fathom any other reason these kids got in over the others. Just reading the stats leads one to that conclusion. I think many people underestimate how badly elite schools want Latinx students, especially those who are immigrants, 1st gen or 1st to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, we feel your pain. Our high-stats FCPS DC (4.41w/3.89uw, mid 1500s SAT, full IB diploma, most rigorous classes) was rejected or waitlisted at every single reach/hard target this week (Rice, WashU, NU, Mich, UCLA, Berkley etc.). Looks like the figurative University of Illinois for us.

These are all reaches. What were her matches/safeties? UVA or WM are at least as good as those schools, and a whole lot cheaper.

Message to parents of future applicants - help your kids have more realistic expectations

Our matches/safeties were Wisconsin, W&M, Pitt and a few others. DC is insisting on OOS--does not want to go to W&M and refused to apply to UVA (we insisted DC apply to one VA school and they grudgingly picked W&M). You make an excellent point about managing expectations. I was thinking that since DC was well within statistical range for every reach one would pan out since we applied to several--DC was rejected at an Ivy ED and UChi ED2. To DCs credit, they are accepting the news better than I am. DC worked really hard and we wanted them to be rewarded for it.

You’re complaining about those schools??

Right?? SMDH

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I really believe wait lists are going to move like never before given the surge in # of apps per student and you can attend only one school. I think schools will dramatically undershoot yield and need to go to the wait list.

I think schools accepted significant numbers ED, but agree wait lists will move. Unfortunately, we likely won't see movement before 5/1, when deposits are due.

Not true. DS was WL at a school and 1 week later moved to accepted. This was 2019 but it’s not uncommon to hear back well Before May 1.

Please. 2019 may as well have been in another century. This and the last election cycle are markedly different from the ones before.

Sincerely,

Parent with relative in the admissions business

Exactly. Test optional has revolutionized admissions.

I am not going to be PC - how do the truly intelligent and hard working kids stand out? And yes, I think test optional kids are a bit lazy and not intelligent.

They can try, but it doesn’t necessarily matter.

2 kids at our small private just got into Northwestern. They are in all regular classes, with a mix of A’s and Bs. They are not athletes, dancers, musicians. They hold no class office (despite running). They need FA. But they are Hispanic. The (white) all advanced class straight A class rep, musician, etc. is waitlisted. Holistic review is really about advancing demographic priorities. It is what it is.

Armchair analysis. Unless you reviewed their applications you have no real idea how they stood out. You go for the easy thing by noting their ethnicity. Because your sense of entitlement makes you unable to imagine they might have something interesting or unique to offer beyond demographics.

I say this as a mother of an intellectually brilliant white kid who got rejected or wait listed to 5 of their top choices. It is what it is.

Ps it’s kind of creepy you know those kids’ grades.

Everyone knows everything. These kids blab and complain. As you can see from their failure to be elected to any class office, they were not well-liked or respected by classmates or teachers (one was kicked out of dc’s chem class basically). So clearly not great recs. Funny that you insist on thinking they have some hidden charms just bc they are Hispanic though.

Almost as funny as you assuming they only got in because they’re Hispanic.

Not PP but it’s hard to fathom any other reason these kids got in over the others. Just reading the stats leads one to that conclusion. I think many people underestimate how badly elite schools want Latinx students, especially those who are immigrants, 1st gen or 1st to college.

Tell us the stats. Do you actually know them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all these “high stat” kids, how many of you are also submitting 4’s or 5’s from
Your AP tests to show that you actually earned the A? Thay may be the difference in many cases. Lots and lots of public high schools are handing out A’s way too easily. And as for SAT scores, does anyone find it weird that 1400
And 1500 scores seem like a dime a dozen these days? The curve is unreal which is even making those seem less valuable. You have to show you earned those A’s so you need AP Scores and you need excellent teacher recommendations.

+1. For anybody reading this who has not had a kid go through the process, a "high stats" gpa--and gpa is very important--at a public in fcps or mcps is a 4.0 uw. If your kid is below that have realistic expectations. It doesn't mean they won't get into a selective school, but they need options. For anybody "unhooked", regardless of their stats, make sure they have a couple of safeties they are excited about attending.

This is true. If you don't have straight As, you are in for a world of hurt. Sadly, this isn't going to help the mental health of highly capable students for years to come. The pressure of one test is nothing compared to the day in day out pressure to never make a mistake or have a bad day. I think colleges have just made the whole mental health problem much, much worse.

+1.

My next kid is not interested in any of this. He took calc BC as a soph, but is choosing fewer weighted classes than he could for junior year. He has a 4.0 uw and will likely have a high standardized test score. He seems to be opting out of aspiring for highly selective schools, i.e. rejects the idea of playing the game. Does not want the stress of the competition to get there, nor a competitive atmosphere when he does. (Which reminds me, "collaborative rather than competitive" is now a factor for his college search, whenever that begins.)

My “high stats” DD did the same. She was at a pressure cooker school and hated the competition. She didn’t apply to T25 because she had no desire to go to school with competitive gunners who are all about the grade. She chose a less selective (but still great) school and could not be happier. She found her place and her people.

DD is a junior at Whitman High School in Bethesda. I can’t wait to get her the h@ll out of this school. Snooty kids who get over 1400 on first SAT run around talking about how they or their parents want them to take the test again because what they got isn’t good enough. It completely deflated my daughter . It’s gross. These kids and their parents are just gross .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I really believe wait lists are going to move like never before given the surge in # of apps per student and you can attend only one school. I think schools will dramatically undershoot yield and need to go to the wait list.

I think schools accepted significant numbers ED, but agree wait lists will move. Unfortunately, we likely won't see movement before 5/1, when deposits are due.

Not true. DS was WL at a school and 1 week later moved to accepted. This was 2019 but it’s not uncommon to hear back well Before May 1.

Please. 2019 may as well have been in another century. This and the last election cycle are markedly different from the ones before.

Sincerely,

Parent with relative in the admissions business

Exactly. Test optional has revolutionized admissions.

I am not going to be PC - how do the truly intelligent and hard working kids stand out? And yes, I think test optional kids are a bit lazy and not intelligent.

They can try, but it doesn’t necessarily matter.

2 kids at our small private just got into Northwestern. They are in all regular classes, with a mix of A’s and Bs. They are not athletes, dancers, musicians. They hold no class office (despite running). They need FA. But they are Hispanic. The (white) all advanced class straight A class rep, musician, etc. is waitlisted. Holistic review is really about advancing demographic priorities. It is what it is.

Armchair analysis. Unless you reviewed their applications you have no real idea how they stood out. You go for the easy thing by noting their ethnicity. Because your sense of entitlement makes you unable to imagine they might have something interesting or unique to offer beyond demographics.

I say this as a mother of an intellectually brilliant white kid who got rejected or wait listed to 5 of their top choices. It is what it is.

Ps it’s kind of creepy you know those kids’ grades.

Everyone knows everything. These kids blab and complain. As you can see from their failure to be elected to any class office, they were not well-liked or respected by classmates or teachers (one was kicked out of dc’s chem class basically). So clearly not great recs. Funny that you insist on thinking they have some hidden charms just bc they are Hispanic though.

Almost as funny as you assuming they only got in because they’re Hispanic.

Not PP but it’s hard to fathom any other reason these kids got in over the others. Just reading the stats leads one to that conclusion. I think many people underestimate how badly elite schools want Latinx students, especially those who are immigrants, 1st gen or 1st to college.

Yes, esp a school like NU, which is basically the middle of nowhere. They probably feel they have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to get Hispanic kids. I posted abt them and 1 of them was also admitted to Wash U, which is similar to NU in some ways. They were rejected to Duke and Brown ED.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I really believe wait lists are going to move like never before given the surge in # of apps per student and you can attend only one school. I think schools will dramatically undershoot yield and need to go to the wait list.

I think schools accepted significant numbers ED, but agree wait lists will move. Unfortunately, we likely won't see movement before 5/1, when deposits are due.

Not true. DS was WL at a school and 1 week later moved to accepted. This was 2019 but it’s not uncommon to hear back well Before May 1.

Please. 2019 may as well have been in another century. This and the last election cycle are markedly different from the ones before.

Sincerely,

Parent with relative in the admissions business

Exactly. Test optional has revolutionized admissions.

I am not going to be PC - how do the truly intelligent and hard working kids stand out? And yes, I think test optional kids are a bit lazy and not intelligent.

They can try, but it doesn’t necessarily matter.

2 kids at our small private just got into Northwestern. They are in all regular classes, with a mix of A’s and Bs. They are not athletes, dancers, musicians. They hold no class office (despite running). They need FA. But they are Hispanic. The (white) all advanced class straight A class rep, musician, etc. is waitlisted. Holistic review is really about advancing demographic priorities. It is what it is.

Armchair analysis. Unless you reviewed their applications you have no real idea how they stood out. You go for the easy thing by noting their ethnicity. Because your sense of entitlement makes you unable to imagine they might have something interesting or unique to offer beyond demographics.

I say this as a mother of an intellectually brilliant white kid who got rejected or wait listed to 5 of their top choices. It is what it is.

Ps it’s kind of creepy you know those kids’ grades.

Everyone knows everything. These kids blab and complain. As you can see from their failure to be elected to any class office, they were not well-liked or respected by classmates or teachers (one was kicked out of dc’s chem class basically). So clearly not great recs. Funny that you insist on thinking they have some hidden charms just bc they are Hispanic though.

LOL on the class election assertion. Grow up. “Popularity” in the high school sense has nothing to do with how much kids are “liked.” And anyone who has moved on from a high school mentality would know that.

Also ther PP says nothing about their ethnicity means they have something interesting to offer a college. However you assume their ethnicity is the only or main reason they got in.

This is an idiotic retort. Class elections reflect leadership capability and how well your classmates respect you, which supposedly colleges prioritize. Except when they prioritize race instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, we feel your pain. Our high-stats FCPS DC (4.41w/3.89uw, mid 1500s SAT, full IB diploma, most rigorous classes) was rejected or waitlisted at every single reach/hard target this week (Rice, WashU, NU, Mich, UCLA, Berkley etc.). Looks like the figurative University of Illinois for us.

Sorry for your son. Is he Caucasian? Looks like Washington University in St. Louis has been taken over by minorities and Asians. Less than half are Caucasian

Funny, the Asians are saying it has been take over by minorities and whites!

Wash U opened the virtual tour w a land acknowledgment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I really believe wait lists are going to move like never before given the surge in # of apps per student and you can attend only one school. I think schools will dramatically undershoot yield and need to go to the wait list.

I think schools accepted significant numbers ED, but agree wait lists will move. Unfortunately, we likely won't see movement before 5/1, when deposits are due.

Not true. DS was WL at a school and 1 week later moved to accepted. This was 2019 but it’s not uncommon to hear back well Before May 1.

Please. 2019 may as well have been in another century. This and the last election cycle are markedly different from the ones before.

Sincerely,

Parent with relative in the admissions business

Exactly. Test optional has revolutionized admissions.

I am not going to be PC - how do the truly intelligent and hard working kids stand out? And yes, I think test optional kids are a bit lazy and not intelligent.

They can try, but it doesn’t necessarily matter.

2 kids at our small private just got into Northwestern. They are in all regular classes, with a mix of A’s and Bs. They are not athletes, dancers, musicians. They hold no class office (despite running). They need FA. But they are Hispanic. The (white) all advanced class straight A class rep, musician, etc. is waitlisted. Holistic review is really about advancing demographic priorities. It is what it is.

Armchair analysis. Unless you reviewed their applications you have no real idea how they stood out. You go for the easy thing by noting their ethnicity. Because your sense of entitlement makes you unable to imagine they might have something interesting or unique to offer beyond demographics.

I say this as a mother of an intellectually brilliant white kid who got rejected or wait listed to 5 of their top choices. It is what it is.

Ps it’s kind of creepy you know those kids’ grades.

Everyone knows everything. These kids blab and complain. As you can see from their failure to be elected to any class office, they were not well-liked or respected by classmates or teachers (one was kicked out of dc’s chem class basically). So clearly not great recs. Funny that you insist on thinking they have some hidden charms just bc they are Hispanic though.

Almost as funny as you assuming they only got in because they’re Hispanic.

Not PP but it’s hard to fathom any other reason these kids got in over the others. Just reading the stats leads one to that conclusion. I think many people underestimate how badly elite schools want Latinx students, especially those who are immigrants, 1st gen or 1st to college.

Tell us the stats. Do you actually know them?

Gave stats above.

[Anonymous]

My DC was basically first Gen college (neither myself nor DH nor any of DC’s grandparents have a bachelor’s, but myself and DH attempted college and have AA degrees) and went to a very low-income title 1 high school, 80% FARMS. Not a magnet school or charter.

DC is white and we are upper middle income. DC had a 1310 SAT (second try), 6 AP classes, most rigorous in every subject but math, and top 3% of the class. DC did a two-season varsity sport all four years and had some local honors in that. Lots of volunteering and over a year of work experience as well. DC got in to 9 of the 10 schools they applied, including the instate flagship and two OOS flagships with merit aid.

However, DC got waitlisted and then rejected at a Patriot League LAC that they toured and interviewed at (each on a separate visit). I suspect that had to do with us requesting financial aid and DC applying regular decision. An article later came out saying that this school in question is very need-sensitive. So be careful about that.

DC was high school class of 2020. My point is that admissions are complicated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I really believe wait lists are going to move like never before given the surge in # of apps per student and you can attend only one school. I think schools will dramatically undershoot yield and need to go to the wait list.

I think schools accepted significant numbers ED, but agree wait lists will move. Unfortunately, we likely won't see movement before 5/1, when deposits are due.

Not true. DS was WL at a school and 1 week later moved to accepted. This was 2019 but it’s not uncommon to hear back well Before May 1.

Please. 2019 may as well have been in another century. This and the last election cycle are markedly different from the ones before.

Sincerely,

Parent with relative in the admissions business

Exactly. Test optional has revolutionized admissions.

I am not going to be PC - how do the truly intelligent and hard working kids stand out? And yes, I think test optional kids are a bit lazy and not intelligent.

They can try, but it doesn’t necessarily matter.

2 kids at our small private just got into Northwestern. They are in all regular classes, with a mix of A’s and Bs. They are not athletes, dancers, musicians. They hold no class office (despite running). They need FA. But they are Hispanic. The (white) all advanced class straight A class rep, musician, etc. is waitlisted. Holistic review is really about advancing demographic priorities. It is what it is.

Armchair analysis. Unless you reviewed their applications you have no real idea how they stood out. You go for the easy thing by noting their ethnicity. Because your sense of entitlement makes you unable to imagine they might have something interesting or unique to offer beyond demographics.

I say this as a mother of an intellectually brilliant white kid who got rejected or wait listed to 5 of their top choices. It is what it is.

Ps it’s kind of creepy you know those kids’ grades.

Everyone knows everything. These kids blab and complain. As you can see from their failure to be elected to any class office, they were not well-liked or respected by classmates or teachers (one was kicked out of dc’s chem class basically). So clearly not great recs. Funny that you insist on thinking they have some hidden charms just bc they are Hispanic though.

Almost as funny as you assuming they only got in because they’re Hispanic.

Not PP but it’s hard to fathom any other reason these kids got in over the others. Just reading the stats leads one to that conclusion. I think many people underestimate how badly elite schools want Latinx students, especially those who are immigrants, 1st gen or 1st to college.

Tell us the stats. Do you actually know them?

Gave stats above.

Exactly. Try reading full chain before asking stupid questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I really believe wait lists are going to move like never before given the surge in # of apps per student and you can attend only one school. I think schools will dramatically undershoot yield and need to go to the wait list.

I think schools accepted significant numbers ED, but agree wait lists will move. Unfortunately, we likely won't see movement before 5/1, when deposits are due.

Not true. DS was WL at a school and 1 week later moved to accepted. This was 2019 but it’s not uncommon to hear back well Before May 1.

Please. 2019 may as well have been in another century. This and the last election cycle are markedly different from the ones before.

Sincerely,

Parent with relative in the admissions business

Exactly. Test optional has revolutionized admissions.

I am not going to be PC - how do the truly intelligent and hard working kids stand out? And yes, I think test optional kids are a bit lazy and not intelligent.

They can try, but it doesn’t necessarily matter.

2 kids at our small private just got into Northwestern. They are in all regular classes, with a mix of A’s and Bs. They are not athletes, dancers, musicians. They hold no class office (despite running). They need FA. But they are Hispanic. The (white) all advanced class straight A class rep, musician, etc. is waitlisted. Holistic review is really about advancing demographic priorities. It is what it is.

Armchair analysis. Unless you reviewed their applications you have no real idea how they stood out. You go for the easy thing by noting their ethnicity. Because your sense of entitlement makes you unable to imagine they might have something interesting or unique to offer beyond demographics.

I say this as a mother of an intellectually brilliant white kid who got rejected or wait listed to 5 of their top choices. It is what it is.

Ps it’s kind of creepy you know those kids’ grades.

Everyone knows everything. These kids blab and complain. As you can see from their failure to be elected to any class office, they were not well-liked or respected by classmates or teachers (one was kicked out of dc’s chem class basically). So clearly not great recs. Funny that you insist on thinking they have some hidden charms just bc they are Hispanic though.

Almost as funny as you assuming they only got in because they’re Hispanic.

Not PP but it’s hard to fathom any other reason these kids got in over the others. Just reading the stats leads one to that conclusion. I think many people underestimate how badly elite schools want Latinx students, especially those who are immigrants, 1st gen or 1st to college.

Tell us the stats. Do you actually know them?

Gave stats above.

GPA, test scores, volunteer hours, and so on? I don't see them. Just someone saying the kids had a mix of As and Bs. At a private school.

If you weren't in the room reading and discussing their applications then you have no knowledge of what it is that got them in beyond your own bigoted opinion that it could only have been their ethnicity.

[Anonymous]

When people share stats as evidence of racial preference, either anecdotally or with aggregate data, the response is “stats aren’t everything.” When they, instead, point to softer things like leadership skills, that is dismissed too.

Schools admit to race-based decision making but when someone implies race was a factor in decision making, they are called out as racist.

Why are people who support affirmative action so unwilling to acknowledge it, and so quick to name call those who do? Living in North Dakota is an advantage too, and calling this out doesn’t mean I have prejudice or ill will towards North Dakotans. But the advantage is still real and we shouldn’t deny it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, we feel your pain. Our high-stats FCPS DC (4.41w/3.89uw, mid 1500s SAT, full IB diploma, most rigorous classes) was rejected or waitlisted at every single reach/hard target this week (Rice, WashU, NU, Mich, UCLA, Berkley etc.). Looks like the figurative University of Illinois for us.

Sorry for your son. Is he Caucasian? Looks like Washington University in St. Louis has been taken over by minorities and Asians. Less than half are Caucasian

Funny, the Asians are saying it has been take over by minorities and whites!

Wash U opened the virtual tour w a land acknowledgment.

That’s a hoot!!! Omg.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When people share stats as evidence of racial preference, either anecdotally or with aggregate data, the response is “stats aren’t everything.” When they, instead, point to softer things like leadership skills, that is dismissed too.

Schools admit to race-based decision making but when someone implies race was a factor in decision making, they are called out as racist.

Why are people who support affirmative action so unwilling to acknowledge it, and so quick to name call those who do? Living in North Dakota is an advantage too, and calling this out doesn’t mean I have prejudice or ill will towards North Dakotans. But the advantage is still real and we shouldn’t deny it.

+1000