So much disappointment this week

[Anonymous]

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I really believe wait lists are going to move like never before given the surge in # of apps per student and you can attend only one school. I think schools will dramatically undershoot yield and need to go to the wait list.

I think schools accepted significant numbers ED, but agree wait lists will move. Unfortunately, we likely won't see movement before 5/1, when deposits are due.

Not true. DS was WL at a school and 1 week later moved to accepted. This was 2019 but it’s not uncommon to hear back well Before May 1.

Please. 2019 may as well have been in another century. This and the last election cycle are markedly different from the ones before.

Sincerely,

Parent with relative in the admissions business

Exactly. Test optional has revolutionized admissions.

I am not going to be PC - how do the truly intelligent and hard working kids stand out? And yes, I think test optional kids are a bit lazy and not intelligent.

They can try, but it doesn’t necessarily matter.

2 kids at our small private just got into Northwestern. They are in all regular classes, with a mix of A’s and Bs. They are not athletes, dancers, musicians. They hold no class office (despite running). They need FA. But they are Hispanic. The (white) all advanced class straight A class rep, musician, etc. is waitlisted. Holistic review is really about advancing demographic priorities. It is what it is.

Armchair analysis. Unless you reviewed their applications you have no real idea how they stood out. You go for the easy thing by noting their ethnicity. Because your sense of entitlement makes you unable to imagine they might have something interesting or unique to offer beyond demographics.

I say this as a mother of an intellectually brilliant white kid who got rejected or wait listed to 5 of their top choices. It is what it is.

Ps it’s kind of creepy you know those kids’ grades.

Everyone knows everything. These kids blab and complain. As you can see from their failure to be elected to any class office, they were not well-liked or respected by classmates or teachers (one was kicked out of dc’s chem class basically). So clearly not great recs. Funny that you insist on thinking they have some hidden charms just bc they are Hispanic though.

LOL on the class election assertion. Grow up. “Popularity” in the high school sense has nothing to do with how much kids are “liked.” And anyone who has moved on from a high school mentality would know that.

Also ther PP says nothing about their ethnicity means they have something interesting to offer a college. However you assume their ethnicity is the only or main reason they got in.

This is an idiotic retort. Class elections reflect leadership capability and how well your classmates respect you, which supposedly colleges prioritize. Except when they prioritize race instead.

Not at all interested in this whole argument about race but the bolded made me lol. High school leadership positions are about popularity or who you’re friends with (if the president has to pick the treasurer, for example). Of ALL the stupid things colleges want to see on resumes, leadership is the most meaningless and absurd.

Right?? What an inane assertion.

The mere fact that the kids ran for office shows some initiative. My exceptionally bright kid is too introverted to try to run for office. Doesn't mean they are not respected or that others don't look to them for their opinions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When people share stats as evidence of racial preference, either anecdotally or with aggregate data, the response is “stats aren’t everything.” When they, instead, point to softer things like leadership skills, that is dismissed too.

Schools admit to race-based decision making but when someone implies race was a factor in decision making, they are called out as racist.

Why are people who support affirmative action so unwilling to acknowledge it, and so quick to name call those who do? Living in North Dakota is an advantage too, and calling this out doesn’t mean I have prejudice or ill will towards North Dakotans. But the advantage is still real and we shouldn’t deny it.

But that just isn’t true. A kid growing up in ND will be hard pressed to find math contests & science research going on around them. Their high school is not likely to have the culture of achievement that yields the slew of AP scores of 5 that elite schools want for STEM majors. At some high schools you just have to simply get As in your challenging, but pedagogically-sound classes to end up well-prepared enough for standardized tests. You don’t have to self-study for multiple exams. They are just very, very unlikely to have the caliber of application that a kid in Brookline or Scarsdale has. Therefore when a rural kid does, their application immediately makes eyes pop.

I hate linking youtubers, but there’s a YouTuber who is at Princeton who grew up in rural Idaho. Her stats were impeccable, and they would have had to be to even get a look.

The 2 Hispanic kids I referenced attend an elite and exclusive private school in the metro NY area. No hardship there!

A Hispanic kid absolutely has hardship.

All of them? No. You have a picture in your head that is wildly under inclusive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, we feel your pain. Our high-stats FCPS DC (4.41w/3.89uw, mid 1500s SAT, full IB diploma, most rigorous classes) was rejected or waitlisted at every single reach/hard target this week (Rice, WashU, NU, Mich, UCLA, Berkley etc.). Looks like the figurative University of Illinois for us.

These are all reaches. What were her matches/safeties? UVA or WM are at least as good as those schools, and a whole lot cheaper.

Message to parents of future applicants - help your kids have more realistic expectations

Our matches/safeties were Wisconsin, W&M, Pitt and a few others. DC is insisting on OOS--does not want to go to W&M and refused to apply to UVA (we insisted DC apply to one VA school and they grudgingly picked W&M). You make an excellent point about managing expectations. I was thinking that since DC was well within statistical range for every reach one would pan out since we applied to several--DC was rejected at an Ivy ED and UChi ED2. To DCs credit, they are accepting the news better than I am. DC worked really hard and we wanted them to be rewarded for it.

The was a big error in your assumptions that many, many, many parents make. But statistically, applying to 10 schools with very low acceptance rates doesn't give your kid better odds of admission than applying to 1 school with very low acceptance rates.

Also "we" didn't apply; your kid did.

Actually, applying to 10 schools with very low acceptance rates does give a kid a better chance of admissions than applying to one, but not as much as people think.

If a kid applies to a school with a 5 percent acceptance rate, if we know nothing else about that kid (hooks, RD/ED, etc, stats, ECs), our best guess is that they have a 5% chance of getting in.

If a kid applies to 10 schools, each with a 5 percent acceptance rate, their chance of getting in to at least one school is NOT 10 x 5%--that is the error that many people make.

Again, without knowing anything else and assuming college decisions are "independent events"--that is, acceptance to one is not correlated with acceptance to another--their chance of getting in to at least one school is 1-the odds of not getting into any of the ten school = 1-95%^10 = 40 percent.

But here's the thing...and again, this is where people get in trouble--that 5% acceptance rate is the rate we all have to rely on but doesn't really tell us the odds for my kid based on their profile, nor does it tell you the odds for yours. In reality, the odds for my kid getting in during the ED round might be closer to 2%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are so sure some kid you don’t know faced hardships but when people who know kids well comment they apparently have no idea what they’re talking about!

Applause!

Or when you share your own kid’s hardship, they say “all kids have hardship”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, we feel your pain. Our high-stats FCPS DC (4.41w/3.89uw, mid 1500s SAT, full IB diploma, most rigorous classes) was rejected or waitlisted at every single reach/hard target this week (Rice, WashU, NU, Mich, UCLA, Berkley etc.). Looks like the figurative University of Illinois for us.

These are all reaches. What were her matches/safeties? UVA or WM are at least as good as those schools, and a whole lot cheaper.

Message to parents of future applicants - help your kids have more realistic expectations

Our matches/safeties were Wisconsin, W&M, Pitt and a few others. DC is insisting on OOS--does not want to go to W&M and refused to apply to UVA (we insisted DC apply to one VA school and they grudgingly picked W&M). You make an excellent point about managing expectations. I was thinking that since DC was well within statistical range for every reach one would pan out since we applied to several--DC was rejected at an Ivy ED and UChi ED2. To DCs credit, they are accepting the news better than I am. DC worked really hard and we wanted them to be rewarded for it.

The was a big error in your assumptions that many, many, many parents make. But statistically, applying to 10 schools with very low acceptance rates doesn't give your kid better odds of admission than applying to 1 school with very low acceptance rates.

Also "we" didn't apply; your kid did.

Actually, applying to 10 schools with very low acceptance rates does give a kid a better chance of admissions than applying to one, but not as much as people think.

If a kid applies to a school with a 5 percent acceptance rate, if we know nothing else about that kid (hooks, RD/ED, etc, stats, ECs), our best guess is that they have a 5% chance of getting in.

If a kid applies to 10 schools, each with a 5 percent acceptance rate, their chance of getting in to at least one school is NOT 10 x 5%--that is the error that many people make.

Again, without knowing anything else and assuming college decisions are "independent events"--that is, acceptance to one is not correlated with acceptance to another--their chance of getting in to at least one school is 1-the odds of not getting into any of the ten school = 1-95%^10 = 40 percent.

But here's the thing...and again, this is where people get in trouble--that 5% acceptance rate is the rate we all have to rely on but doesn't really tell us the odds for my kid based on their profile, nor does it tell you the odds for yours. In reality, the odds for my kid getting in during the ED round might be closer to 2%.

Even bright people do not grasp this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When people share stats as evidence of racial preference, either anecdotally or with aggregate data, the response is “stats aren’t everything.” When they, instead, point to softer things like leadership skills, that is dismissed too.

Schools admit to race-based decision making but when someone implies race was a factor in decision making, they are called out as racist.

Why are people who support affirmative action so unwilling to acknowledge it, and so quick to name call those who do? Living in North Dakota is an advantage too, and calling this out doesn’t mean I have prejudice or ill will towards North Dakotans. But the advantage is still real and we shouldn’t deny it.

But that just isn’t true. A kid growing up in ND will be hard pressed to find math contests & science research going on around them. Their high school is not likely to have the culture of achievement that yields the slew of AP scores of 5 that elite schools want for STEM majors. At some high schools you just have to simply get As in your challenging, but pedagogically-sound classes to end up well-prepared enough for standardized tests. You don’t have to self-study for multiple exams. They are just very, very unlikely to have the caliber of application that a kid in Brookline or Scarsdale has. Therefore when a rural kid does, their application immediately makes eyes pop.



The 2 Hispanic kids I referenced attend an elite and exclusive private school in the metro NY area. No hardship there!

A Hispanic kid absolutely has hardship.

All of them? No. You have a picture in your head that is wildly under inclusive.

I am so effing sick of hearing about “hardship”. Who has it and who doesn’t Blah blah blah I lost my mom at the age of 4. My dad fell apart and put me and my siblings in foster care when I was 8. Fast forward a few years, straight A student in high school and went to my state school for BS and MS degrees Not ranked in the top 20 but the only place I applied. No
One knew I was on free lunches in high school and a ward of the state court. I kept my mouth shut and worked my way through. Loans etc. oh yeah. I am Caucasian. Now I am finding it near impossible for my kid to get into schools because the colleges have decided to give half the seats to minorities who have “ hardships”’.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When people share stats as evidence of racial preference, either anecdotally or with aggregate data, the response is “stats aren’t everything.” When they, instead, point to softer things like leadership skills, that is dismissed too.

Schools admit to race-based decision making but when someone implies race was a factor in decision making, they are called out as racist.

Why are people who support affirmative action so unwilling to acknowledge it, and so quick to name call those who do? Living in North Dakota is an advantage too, and calling this out doesn’t mean I have prejudice or ill will towards North Dakotans. But the advantage is still real and we shouldn’t deny it.

But that just isn’t true. A kid growing up in ND will be hard pressed to find math contests & science research going on around them. Their high school is not likely to have the culture of achievement that yields the slew of AP scores of 5 that elite schools want for STEM majors. At some high schools you just have to simply get As in your challenging, but pedagogically-sound classes to end up well-prepared enough for standardized tests. You don’t have to self-study for multiple exams. They are just very, very unlikely to have the caliber of application that a kid in Brookline or Scarsdale has. Therefore when a rural kid does, their application immediately makes eyes pop.

I hate linking youtubers, but there’s a YouTuber who is at Princeton who grew up in rural Idaho. Her stats were impeccable, and they would have had to be to even get a look.

The 2 Hispanic kids I referenced attend an elite and exclusive private school in the metro NY area. No hardship there!

A Hispanic kid absolutely has hardship.

All of them? No. You have a picture in your head that is wildly under inclusive.

Lol
Completely agree. We have friends from Colombia. The parents are Doctor and VP Data Science. I can guarantee to you that this Hispanic kids are not troubled by hardship in any way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When people share stats as evidence of racial preference, either anecdotally or with aggregate data, the response is “stats aren’t everything.” When they, instead, point to softer things like leadership skills, that is dismissed too.

Schools admit to race-based decision making but when someone implies race was a factor in decision making, they are called out as racist.

Why are people who support affirmative action so unwilling to acknowledge it, and so quick to name call those who do? Living in North Dakota is an advantage too, and calling this out doesn’t mean I have prejudice or ill will towards North Dakotans. But the advantage is still real and we shouldn’t deny it.

But that just isn’t true. A kid growing up in ND will be hard pressed to find math contests & science research going on around them. Their high school is not likely to have the culture of achievement that yields the slew of AP scores of 5 that elite schools want for STEM majors. At some high schools you just have to simply get As in your challenging, but pedagogically-sound classes to end up well-prepared enough for standardized tests. You don’t have to self-study for multiple exams. They are just very, very unlikely to have the caliber of application that a kid in Brookline or Scarsdale has. Therefore when a rural kid does, their application immediately makes eyes pop.



The 2 Hispanic kids I referenced attend an elite and exclusive private school in the metro NY area. No hardship there!

A Hispanic kid absolutely has hardship.

All of them? No. You have a picture in your head that is wildly under inclusive.

I am so effing sick of hearing about “hardship”. Who has it and who doesn’t Blah blah blah I lost my mom at the age of 4. My dad fell apart and put me and my siblings in foster care when I was 8. Fast forward a few years, straight A student in high school and went to my state school for BS and MS degrees Not ranked in the top 20 but the only place I applied. No
One knew I was on free lunches in high school and a ward of the state court. I kept my mouth shut and worked my way through. Loans etc. oh yeah. I am Caucasian. Now I am finding it near impossible for my kid to get into schools because the colleges have decided to give half the seats to minorities who have “ hardships”’.

Completely agree. You will always get in trouble assuming both hardship and privilege, simply based on race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When people share stats as evidence of racial preference, either anecdotally or with aggregate data, the response is “stats aren’t everything.” When they, instead, point to softer things like leadership skills, that is dismissed too.

Schools admit to race-based decision making but when someone implies race was a factor in decision making, they are called out as racist.

Why are people who support affirmative action so unwilling to acknowledge it, and so quick to name call those who do? Living in North Dakota is an advantage too, and calling this out doesn’t mean I have prejudice or ill will towards North Dakotans. But the advantage is still real and we shouldn’t deny it.

But that just isn’t true. A kid growing up in ND will be hard pressed to find math contests & science research going on around them. Their high school is not likely to have the culture of achievement that yields the slew of AP scores of 5 that elite schools want for STEM majors. At some high schools you just have to simply get As in your challenging, but pedagogically-sound classes to end up well-prepared enough for standardized tests. You don’t have to self-study for multiple exams. They are just very, very unlikely to have the caliber of application that a kid in Brookline or Scarsdale has. Therefore when a rural kid does, their application immediately makes eyes pop.



The 2 Hispanic kids I referenced attend an elite and exclusive private school in the metro NY area. No hardship there!

A Hispanic kid absolutely has hardship.

All of them? No. You have a picture in your head that is wildly under inclusive.

I am so effing sick of hearing about “hardship”. Who has it and who doesn’t Blah blah blah I lost my mom at the age of 4. My dad fell apart and put me and my siblings in foster care when I was 8. Fast forward a few years, straight A student in high school and went to my state school for BS and MS degrees Not ranked in the top 20 but the only place I applied. No
One knew I was on free lunches in high school and a ward of the state court. I kept my mouth shut and worked my way through. Loans etc. oh yeah. I am Caucasian. Now I am finding it near impossible for my kid to get into schools because the colleges have decided to give half the seats to minorities who have “ hardships”’.

Completely agree. You will always get in trouble assuming both hardship and privilege, simply based on race.

Funny. But you don't get in trouble for assuming a URM is unqualified -
simply based on race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When people share stats as evidence of racial preference, either anecdotally or with aggregate data, the response is “stats aren’t everything.” When they, instead, point to softer things like leadership skills, that is dismissed too.

Schools admit to race-based decision making but when someone implies race was a factor in decision making, they are called out as racist.

Why are people who support affirmative action so unwilling to acknowledge it, and so quick to name call those who do? Living in North Dakota is an advantage too, and calling this out doesn’t mean I have prejudice or ill will towards North Dakotans. But the advantage is still real and we shouldn’t deny it.

This is like my federal government job. You don’t dare imply that the preference is for the agency to hire and/ or promote minorities who aren’t as qualified to show diversity and inclusion Lest you be called a “racist”.

Umm, because it is racist. You assume the person is being selected only because of their race and not because they are also qualified. You also assume if in a certain situation where you were privy to all the facts of everyone that applied knew beyond a shadow of the doubt the person selected did not meet the published requirements, that it could be extended to every situation where you have zero facts. This would be the same is if I saw one unqualified non-minority get a job because they knew the boss therefore all non-minority that get jobs must be unqualified because it isn’t what you know it’s who you know. Are you just as diligent in checking if all the non-minorities are qualified and go in assuming they only got the job because they know?

When the person mentioned being from ND as an advantage, the subtext is that “and they are qualified”. If you were as rude to tell someone that they only reason they got in as because they are from ND, not only is it not your business what their stats are and you are speaking from ignorance, but just saying they are from ND doesn’t tell you who they are as a person. Everyone from ND isn’t interchangeable and someone from ND can also be first generation college student or bring a different perspective to a situation based on other parts of their background.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When people share stats as evidence of racial preference, either anecdotally or with aggregate data, the response is “stats aren’t everything.” When they, instead, point to softer things like leadership skills, that is dismissed too.

Schools admit to race-based decision making but when someone implies race was a factor in decision making, they are called out as racist.

Why are people who support affirmative action so unwilling to acknowledge it, and so quick to name call those who do? Living in North Dakota is an advantage too, and calling this out doesn’t mean I have prejudice or ill will towards North Dakotans. But the advantage is still real and we shouldn’t deny it.

This is like my federal government job. You don’t dare imply that the preference is for the agency to hire and/ or promote minorities who aren’t as qualified to show diversity and inclusion Lest you be called a “racist”.

Umm, because it is racist. You assume the person is being selected only because of their race and not because they are also qualified. You also assume if in a certain situation where you were privy to all the facts of everyone that applied knew beyond a shadow of the doubt the person selected did not meet the published requirements, that it could be extended to every situation where you have zero facts. This would be the same is if I saw one unqualified non-minority get a job because they knew the boss therefore all non-minority that get jobs must be unqualified because it isn’t what you know it’s who you know. Are you just as diligent in checking if all the non-minorities are qualified and go in assuming they only got the job because they know?

When the person mentioned being from ND as an advantage, the subtext is that “and they are qualified”. If you were as rude to tell someone that they only reason they got in as because they are from ND, not only is it not your business what their stats are and you are speaking from ignorance, but just saying they are from ND doesn’t tell you who they are as a person. Everyone from ND isn’t interchangeable and someone from ND can also be first generation college student or bring a different perspective to a situation based on other parts of their background.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When people share stats as evidence of racial preference, either anecdotally or with aggregate data, the response is “stats aren’t everything.” When they, instead, point to softer things like leadership skills, that is dismissed too.

Schools admit to race-based decision making but when someone implies race was a factor in decision making, they are called out as racist.

Why are people who support affirmative action so unwilling to acknowledge it, and so quick to name call those who do? Living in North Dakota is an advantage too, and calling this out doesn’t mean I have prejudice or ill will towards North Dakotans. But the advantage is still real and we shouldn’t deny it.

But that just isn’t true. A kid growing up in ND will be hard pressed to find math contests & science research going on around them. Their high school is not likely to have the culture of achievement that yields the slew of AP scores of 5 that elite schools want for STEM majors. At some high schools you just have to simply get As in your challenging, but pedagogically-sound classes to end up well-prepared enough for standardized tests. You don’t have to self-study for multiple exams. They are just very, very unlikely to have the caliber of application that a kid in Brookline or Scarsdale has. Therefore when a rural kid does, their application immediately makes eyes pop.



The 2 Hispanic kids I referenced attend an elite and exclusive private school in the metro NY area. No hardship there!

A Hispanic kid absolutely has hardship.

All of them? No. You have a picture in your head that is wildly under inclusive.

I am so effing sick of hearing about “hardship”. Who has it and who doesn’t Blah blah blah I lost my mom at the age of 4. My dad fell apart and put me and my siblings in foster care when I was 8. Fast forward a few years, straight A student in high school and went to my state school for BS and MS degrees Not ranked in the top 20 but the only place I applied. No
One knew I was on free lunches in high school and a ward of the state court. I kept my mouth shut and worked my way through. Loans etc. oh yeah. I am Caucasian. Now I am finding it near impossible for my kid to get into schools because the colleges have decided to give half the seats to minorities who have “ hardships”’.

If your kid can't get into any schools it clearly has nothing to do with kids who are not "Caucasians" (by the way, did you ever notice the "asian" in that word you like to toss around to frequently here on these boards? Hmmm.).

Did your kid apply to the state school you went to? Did your kid apply to any schools outside the T50? Did your kid apply to any schools with at least 50% acceptance rate?

And stop with the "minorities are stealing white spots" nonsense. Why not blame the wealthy full pay whites who are stealing your spot? How about the white athletes that are? How about the white legacies that are?

Stop feeling so entitled that your kid deserves to be accepted into any school they apply to. Mine got rejected from 4 schools despite being a 99th percentile kid, national awards, excellent recommendations, unique interests. But they applied to a wide range of schools and got into others. Maybe less rejective than the ones they didn't get into. But so what. My kid isn't entitled to go to a T20 school and neither is yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, we feel your pain. Our high-stats FCPS DC (4.41w/3.89uw, mid 1500s SAT, full IB diploma, most rigorous classes) was rejected or waitlisted at every single reach/hard target this week (Rice, WashU, NU, Mich, UCLA, Berkley etc.). Looks like the figurative University of Illinois for us.

These are all reaches. What were her matches/safeties? UVA or WM are at least as good as those schools, and a whole lot cheaper.

Message to parents of future applicants - help your kids have more realistic expectations

Our matches/safeties were Wisconsin, W&M, Pitt and a few others. DC is insisting on OOS--does not want to go to W&M and refused to apply to UVA (we insisted DC apply to one VA school and they grudgingly picked W&M). You make an excellent point about managing expectations. I was thinking that since DC was well within statistical range for every reach one would pan out since we applied to several--DC was rejected at an Ivy ED and UChi ED2. To DCs credit, they are accepting the news better than I am. DC worked really hard and we wanted them to be rewarded for it.

OMG most rejected kids from top schools are “well within statistical range.” You can look at Naviance for any top schools and see tons of red Xs around and above a lone green check. When will parents learn that the stats just get you past the initial threshold. Having high stats is not a qualifier. Having low stats is a weed out. There’s a difference.

Parents of younger kids take note and understand this.

The naviance data for our FCPS HS was not of much help because the substantial majority of high achieving kids at DC's school strive for UVA, W&M and VT. There are no scattergrams for the Ivies and other top 25 schools because not enough kids apply.

[Anonymous]

SO glad my kids got in before this “test optional” nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SO glad my kids got in before this “test optional” nonsense.

This isn’t really helpful.