The Gilded Age

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On Peggy Scott, who I also liked, I enjoyed this article:
https://www.glamour.com/story/the-gilded-age-denee-benton

I couldn't read much of it beyond some vague justification for making up history to suit modern ideologies. Do they have her going to balls and dances in the show? Or is it because of the rush to be woke, they throw in a token black character while ignoring historically more relevat social tensions and very real discriminations against, say, Jews or ethnic immigrants in late 19th century New York?

THIS. The real tensions of the times were other than black women. It doesn’t feel accurate in any way.

You are both very wrong. There was an upper class black population at the time that you clearly didn't know anything about. It's not about being "woke" just because you include a historically factual upper class black woman in the show. Shows your complete and utter ignorance. The reason they included her (if you read about it instead of pulling opinions out of your ass) you would realize that it is not often spoken about so they wanted to include it. Just because it wasn't what you believe should be relevant, doesn't make it less so.

So because it doesn't feel relevant to YOU, it's not relevant? We didn't get the memo that you were the arbiter of everything that is important.

*Standing ovation*

The number of black Americans in the 19th century who could have been described as upper class or even middle class was so small that it would only be a slight exaggeration to say you could count them on one hand. The best description I've read of 19th century black Americans is that they were as invisible as anyone could be. They just did not factor in most people's lives. That's how severe the racism was. It was also helped by that the black population north of the Mason Dixon line was small and it wasn't until the great migration starting after WWI that northern cities started having larger and more visible black populations. Almost all the servants in 19th century north were Irish/immigrants, for example, not black.

For the gilded age upper class New York, black Americans were not something they thought much about. To be seen in a social situation with a black person who wasn't a servant was both rare and certainly would have been commented upon. The social tensions they experienced were with up and coming new wealth, especially Jews.

That the show's producers would chose to focus on a middle class black person is certainly due to modern cultural pressures. Because if you wanted to capture the flavor of the period, you wouldn't have black characters other than servants. Because that was the extent of black people in the world of the gilded age upper classes. Racial consciousness and civil rights were decidedly not fashionable thoughts. The late 19th century was the entrenchment, often quite brutal, of Jim Crow in the South along with a steady loss of the initial civil rights promised by amendments of the late 1860s, and it happened with the indifference of the North, and it wasn't till around WWI that you saw an emergence of a more progressive-minded and sympathetic outlook among a certain segment of Northern elites (still fairly small), which did help to set the frameworks for the early civil rights movement.

I do think it'd be fascinating to have a show about an Ida B. Wells character and her struggles with the pervasive bigotry of late 19th century and early 20th century America, but trying to tie her with the gilded elite of the Vanderbilts and Astors is difficult, if not outright silly, if you're aiming for accuracy. Perhaps you could pull off an episode with a visiting lecturer raising funds to establish schools for blacks in the South but that would be the realistic extent for most of the gilded age elite outside of a service or catering related relationship.

What is it with you? They did exist even if in small numbers. No one is suggesting that they were in great numbers. You forget that during Reconstruction, black people made significant strides in politics and economically. There has always been a black upper class. WEB Dubois? Also, the Executive Producer is a black woman. It has nothing to do with "modern cultural pressures". They are people who want to tell a story that others may not be familiar with. Every time a black person is highlighted does not mean that someone is being woke. Maybe they just want to explore something different and teach you something. Does this mean every time you even see a black person in a position to which you are not familiar, you consider someone folding to "modern cultural pressures"? Do you live under a rock? STAY MAD ABBY!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m not nearly as critical as the vast majority of posters. I really like Peggy’s story. I like Marian’s too, and the friendship arc. They have shown Marian’s many missteps due to her curiosity and assumptions. The most interesting turn is in the latest episode when Peggy gets to go to Edison’s event, but not Marian. I think the scene was great showing that Black Americans were very present at these events, even if history ignored it.

Do you like:

- never hearing about the cook gambling more? What’s the chance that she wouldn’t be?

- the head housekeeper and her horrid invalid mother?

- the maid who was molested (we see her- but that story line is gone)

-

[Anonymous]

The costumes and setting alone are enough to keep me coming back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not nearly as critical as the vast majority of posters. I really like Peggy’s story. I like Marian’s too, and the friendship arc. They have shown Marian’s many missteps due to her curiosity and assumptions. The most interesting turn is in the latest episode when Peggy gets to go to Edison’s event, but not Marian. I think the scene was great showing that Black Americans were very present at these events, even if history ignored it.

Do you like:

- never hearing about the cook gambling more? What’s the chance that she wouldn’t be?

- the head housekeeper and her horrid invalid mother?

- the maid who was molested (we see her- but that story line is gone)

-

It's already been renewed for another season. There is plenty of time. I'm sure they are introducing these story lines for later development.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not nearly as critical as the vast majority of posters. I really like Peggy’s story. I like Marian’s too, and the friendship arc. They have shown Marian’s many missteps due to her curiosity and assumptions. The most interesting turn is in the latest episode when Peggy gets to go to Edison’s event, but not Marian. I think the scene was great showing that Black Americans were very present at these events, even if history ignored it.

Do you like:

- never hearing about the cook gambling more? What’s the chance that she wouldn’t be?

- the head housekeeper and her horrid invalid mother?

- the maid who was molested (we see her- but that story line is gone)

-

It's already been renewed for another season. There is plenty of time. I'm sure they are introducing these story lines for later development.

Cliffhangers are fine. Introducing a story line and completely abandoning it for several episodes is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Black people are the only interesting part of this show.

Hard agree,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not nearly as critical as the vast majority of posters. I really like Peggy’s story. I like Marian’s too, and the friendship arc. They have shown Marian’s many missteps due to her curiosity and assumptions. The most interesting turn is in the latest episode when Peggy gets to go to Edison’s event, but not Marian. I think the scene was great showing that Black Americans were very present at these events, even if history ignored it.

Do you like:

- never hearing about the cook gambling more? What’s the chance that she wouldn’t be?

- the head housekeeper and her horrid invalid mother?

- the maid who was molested (we see her- but that story line is gone)

-

It's already been renewed for another season. There is plenty of time. I'm sure they are introducing these story lines for later development.

Cliffhangers are fine. Introducing a story line and completely abandoning it for several episodes is not.

You sound like a horrible person. Really unlikeable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not nearly as critical as the vast majority of posters. I really like Peggy’s story. I like Marian’s too, and the friendship arc. They have shown Marian’s many missteps due to her curiosity and assumptions. The most interesting turn is in the latest episode when Peggy gets to go to Edison’s event, but not Marian. I think the scene was great showing that Black Americans were very present at these events, even if history ignored it.

Do you like:

- never hearing about the cook gambling more? What’s the chance that she wouldn’t be?

- the head housekeeper and her horrid invalid mother?

- the maid who was molested (we see her- but that story line is gone)

-

It's already been renewed for another season. There is plenty of time. I'm sure they are introducing these story lines for later development.

Cliffhangers are fine. Introducing a story line and completely abandoning it for several episodes is not.

You sound like a horrible person. Really unlikeable.

You have a very low tolerance for horribleness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On Peggy Scott, who I also liked, I enjoyed this article:
https://www.glamour.com/story/the-gilded-age-denee-benton

I couldn't read much of it beyond some vague justification for making up history to suit modern ideologies. Do they have her going to balls and dances in the show? Or is it because of the rush to be woke, they throw in a token black character while ignoring historically more relevat social tensions and very real discriminations against, say, Jews or ethnic immigrants in late 19th century New York?

THIS. The real tensions of the times were other than black women. It doesn’t feel accurate in any way.

You are both very wrong. There was an upper class black population at the time that you clearly didn't know anything about. It's not about being "woke" just because you include a historically factual upper class black woman in the show. Shows your complete and utter ignorance. The reason they included her (if you read about it instead of pulling opinions out of your ass) you would realize that it is not often spoken about so they wanted to include it. Just because it wasn't what you believe should be relevant, doesn't make it less so.

So because it doesn't feel relevant to YOU, it's not relevant? We didn't get the memo that you were the arbiter of everything that is important.

*Standing ovation*

This. What they showed about an UMC or MC in NY was real. It existed. Did it exist everywhere or even in any numbers, no. But in NYC at that time it was there.

The number of black Americans in the 19th century who could have been described as upper class or even middle class was so small that it would only be a slight exaggeration to say you could count them on one hand. The best description I've read of 19th century black Americans is that they were as invisible as anyone could be. They just did not factor in most people's lives. That's how severe the racism was. It was also helped by that the black population north of the Mason Dixon line was small and it wasn't until the great migration starting after WWI that northern cities started having larger and more visible black populations. Almost all the servants in 19th century north were Irish/immigrants, for example, not black.

For the gilded age upper class New York, black Americans were not something they thought much about. To be seen in a social situation with a black person who wasn't a servant was both rare and certainly would have been commented upon. The social tensions they experienced were with up and coming new wealth, especially Jews.

That the show's producers would chose to focus on a middle class black person is certainly due to modern cultural pressures. Because if you wanted to capture the flavor of the period, you wouldn't have black characters other than servants. Because that was the extent of black people in the world of the gilded age upper classes. Racial consciousness and civil rights were decidedly not fashionable thoughts. The late 19th century was the entrenchment, often quite brutal, of Jim Crow in the South along with a steady loss of the initial civil rights promised by amendments of the late 1860s, and it happened with the indifference of the North, and it wasn't till around WWI that you saw an emergence of a more progressive-minded and sympathetic outlook among a certain segment of Northern elites (still fairly small), which did help to set the frameworks for the early civil rights movement.

I do think it'd be fascinating to have a show about an Ida B. Wells character and her struggles with the pervasive bigotry of late 19th century and early 20th century America, but trying to tie her with the gilded elite of the Vanderbilts and Astors is difficult, if not outright silly, if you're aiming for accuracy. Perhaps you could pull off an episode with a visiting lecturer raising funds to establish schools for blacks in the South but that would be the realistic extent for most of the gilded age elite outside of a service or catering related relationship.

What is it with you? They did exist even if in small numbers. No one is suggesting that they were in great numbers. You forget that during Reconstruction, black people made significant strides in politics and economically. There has always been a black upper class. WEB Dubois? Also, the Executive Producer is a black woman. It has nothing to do with "modern cultural pressures". They are people who want to tell a story that others may not be familiar with. Every time a black person is highlighted does not mean that someone is being woke. Maybe they just want to explore something different and teach you something. Does this mean every time you even see a black person in a position to which you are not familiar, you consider someone folding to "modern cultural pressures"? Do you live under a rock? STAY MAD ABBY!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On Peggy Scott, who I also liked, I enjoyed this article:
https://www.glamour.com/story/the-gilded-age-denee-benton

I couldn't read much of it beyond some vague justification for making up history to suit modern ideologies. Do they have her going to balls and dances in the show? Or is it because of the rush to be woke, they throw in a token black character while ignoring historically more relevat social tensions and very real discriminations against, say, Jews or ethnic immigrants in late 19th century New York?

THIS. The real tensions of the times were other than black women. It doesn’t feel accurate in any way.

You are both very wrong. There was an upper class black population at the time that you clearly didn't know anything about. It's not about being "woke" just because you include a historically factual upper class black woman in the show. Shows your complete and utter ignorance. The reason they included her (if you read about it instead of pulling opinions out of your ass) you would realize that it is not often spoken about so they wanted to include it. Just because it wasn't what you believe should be relevant, doesn't make it less so.

So because it doesn't feel relevant to YOU, it's not relevant? We didn't get the memo that you were the arbiter of everything that is important.

*Standing ovation*

This. What they showed about an UMC or MC in NY was real. It existed. Did it exist everywhere or even in any numbers, no. But in NYC at that time it was there.

The number of black Americans in the 19th century who could have been described as upper class or even middle class was so small that it would only be a slight exaggeration to say you could count them on one hand. The best description I've read of 19th century black Americans is that they were as invisible as anyone could be. They just did not factor in most people's lives. That's how severe the racism was. It was also helped by that the black population north of the Mason Dixon line was small and it wasn't until the great migration starting after WWI that northern cities started having larger and more visible black populations. Almost all the servants in 19th century north were Irish/immigrants, for example, not black.

For the gilded age upper class New York, black Americans were not something they thought much about. To be seen in a social situation with a black person who wasn't a servant was both rare and certainly would have been commented upon. The social tensions they experienced were with up and coming new wealth, especially Jews.

That the show's producers would chose to focus on a middle class black person is certainly due to modern cultural pressures. Because if you wanted to capture the flavor of the period, you wouldn't have black characters other than servants. Because that was the extent of black people in the world of the gilded age upper classes. Racial consciousness and civil rights were decidedly not fashionable thoughts. The late 19th century was the entrenchment, often quite brutal, of Jim Crow in the South along with a steady loss of the initial civil rights promised by amendments of the late 1860s, and it happened with the indifference of the North, and it wasn't till around WWI that you saw an emergence of a more progressive-minded and sympathetic outlook among a certain segment of Northern elites (still fairly small), which did help to set the frameworks for the early civil rights movement.

I do think it'd be fascinating to have a show about an Ida B. Wells character and her struggles with the pervasive bigotry of late 19th century and early 20th century America, but trying to tie her with the gilded elite of the Vanderbilts and Astors is difficult, if not outright silly, if you're aiming for accuracy. Perhaps you could pull off an episode with a visiting lecturer raising funds to establish schools for blacks in the South but that would be the realistic extent for most of the gilded age elite outside of a service or catering related relationship.

What is it with you? They did exist even if in small numbers. No one is suggesting that they were in great numbers. You forget that during Reconstruction, black people made significant strides in politics and economically. There has always been a black upper class. WEB Dubois? Also, the Executive Producer is a black woman. It has nothing to do with "modern cultural pressures". They are people who want to tell a story that others may not be familiar with. Every time a black person is highlighted does not mean that someone is being woke. Maybe they just want to explore something different and teach you something. Does this mean every time you even see a black person in a position to which you are not familiar, you consider someone folding to "modern cultural pressures"? Do you live under a rock? STAY MAD ABBY!

This. What they showed about an UMC or MC in NY was real. It existed. Did it exist everywhere or even in any numbers, no. But in NYC at that time it was there.

[Anonymous]

I just don't like Marian or Mr. Raikes at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On Peggy Scott, who I also liked, I enjoyed this article:
https://www.glamour.com/story/the-gilded-age-denee-benton

I couldn't read much of it beyond some vague justification for making up history to suit modern ideologies. Do they have her going to balls and dances in the show? Or is it because of the rush to be woke, they throw in a token black character while ignoring historically more relevat social tensions and very real discriminations against, say, Jews or ethnic immigrants in late 19th century New York?

THIS. The real tensions of the times were other than black women. It doesn’t feel accurate in any way.

You are both very wrong. There was an upper class black population at the time that you clearly didn't know anything about. It's not about being "woke" just because you include a historically factual upper class black woman in the show. Shows your complete and utter ignorance. The reason they included her (if you read about it instead of pulling opinions out of your ass) you would realize that it is not often spoken about so they wanted to include it. Just because it wasn't what you believe should be relevant, doesn't make it less so.

So because it doesn't feel relevant to YOU, it's not relevant? We didn't get the memo that you were the arbiter of everything that is important.

*Standing ovation*

The number of black Americans in the 19th century who could have been described as upper class or even middle class was so small that it would only be a slight exaggeration to say you could count them on one hand. The best description I've read of 19th century black Americans is that they were as invisible as anyone could be. They just did not factor in most people's lives. That's how severe the racism was. It was also helped by that the black population north of the Mason Dixon line was small and it wasn't until the great migration starting after WWI that northern cities started having larger and more visible black populations. Almost all the servants in 19th century north were Irish/immigrants, for example, not black.

For the gilded age upper class New York, black Americans were not something they thought much about. To be seen in a social situation with a black person who wasn't a servant was both rare and certainly would have been commented upon. The social tensions they experienced were with up and coming new wealth, especially Jews.

That the show's producers would chose to focus on a middle class black person is certainly due to modern cultural pressures. Because if you wanted to capture the flavor of the period, you wouldn't have black characters other than servants. Because that was the extent of black people in the world of the gilded age upper classes. Racial consciousness and civil rights were decidedly not fashionable thoughts. The late 19th century was the entrenchment, often quite brutal, of Jim Crow in the South along with a steady loss of the initial civil rights promised by amendments of the late 1860s, and it happened with the indifference of the North, and it wasn't till around WWI that you saw an emergence of a more progressive-minded and sympathetic outlook among a certain segment of Northern elites (still fairly small), which did help to set the frameworks for the early civil rights movement.

I do think it'd be fascinating to have a show about an Ida B. Wells character and her struggles with the pervasive bigotry of late 19th century and early 20th century America, but trying to tie her with the gilded elite of the Vanderbilts and Astors is difficult, if not outright silly, if you're aiming for accuracy. Perhaps you could pull off an episode with a visiting lecturer raising funds to establish schools for blacks in the South but that would be the realistic extent for most of the gilded age elite outside of a service or catering related relationship.

What is it with you? They did exist even if in small numbers. No one is suggesting that they were in great numbers. You forget that during Reconstruction, black people made significant strides in politics and economically. There has always been a black upper class. WEB Dubois? Also, the Executive Producer is a black woman. It has nothing to do with "modern cultural pressures". They are people who want to tell a story that others may not be familiar with. Every time a black person is highlighted does not mean that someone is being woke. Maybe they just want to explore something different and teach you something. Does this mean every time you even see a black person in a position to which you are not familiar, you consider someone folding to "modern cultural pressures"? Do you live under a rock? STAY MAD ABBY!

You are incorrect, literally whole books have been written about MC/UMC AA's, e.g., :https://www.amazon.com/Our-Kind-People-Inside-Americas/dp/0060984384.

[Anonymous]

Why did the have Mr. Russell act all flirty with the maid, like they were already having an affair, but then when she came into his bedroom he was all horrified? Made no sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On Peggy Scott, who I also liked, I enjoyed this article:
https://www.glamour.com/story/the-gilded-age-denee-benton

I couldn't read much of it beyond some vague justification for making up history to suit modern ideologies. Do they have her going to balls and dances in the show? Or is it because of the rush to be woke, they throw in a token black character while ignoring historically more relevat social tensions and very real discriminations against, say, Jews or ethnic immigrants in late 19th century New York?

THIS. The real tensions of the times were other than black women. It doesn’t feel accurate in any way.

You are both very wrong. There was an upper class black population at the time that you clearly didn't know anything about. It's not about being "woke" just because you include a historically factual upper class black woman in the show. Shows your complete and utter ignorance. The reason they included her (if you read about it instead of pulling opinions out of your ass) you would realize that it is not often spoken about so they wanted to include it. Just because it wasn't what you believe should be relevant, doesn't make it less so.

So because it doesn't feel relevant to YOU, it's not relevant? We didn't get the memo that you were the arbiter of everything that is important.

*Standing ovation*

This. What they showed about an UMC or MC in NY was real. It existed. Did it exist everywhere or even in any numbers, no. But in NYC at that time it was there.

The number of black Americans in the 19th century who could have been described as upper class or even middle class was so small that it would only be a slight exaggeration to say you could count them on one hand. The best description I've read of 19th century black Americans is that they were as invisible as anyone could be. They just did not factor in most people's lives. That's how severe the racism was. It was also helped by that the black population north of the Mason Dixon line was small and it wasn't until the great migration starting after WWI that northern cities started having larger and more visible black populations. Almost all the servants in 19th century north were Irish/immigrants, for example, not black.

For the gilded age upper class New York, black Americans were not something they thought much about. To be seen in a social situation with a black person who wasn't a servant was both rare and certainly would have been commented upon. The social tensions they experienced were with up and coming new wealth, especially Jews.

That the show's producers would chose to focus on a middle class black person is certainly due to modern cultural pressures. Because if you wanted to capture the flavor of the period, you wouldn't have black characters other than servants. Because that was the extent of black people in the world of the gilded age upper classes. Racial consciousness and civil rights were decidedly not fashionable thoughts. The late 19th century was the entrenchment, often quite brutal, of Jim Crow in the South along with a steady loss of the initial civil rights promised by amendments of the late 1860s, and it happened with the indifference of the North, and it wasn't till around WWI that you saw an emergence of a more progressive-minded and sympathetic outlook among a certain segment of Northern elites (still fairly small), which did help to set the frameworks for the early civil rights movement.

I do think it'd be fascinating to have a show about an Ida B. Wells character and her struggles with the pervasive bigotry of late 19th century and early 20th century America, but trying to tie her with the gilded elite of the Vanderbilts and Astors is difficult, if not outright silly, if you're aiming for accuracy. Perhaps you could pull off an episode with a visiting lecturer raising funds to establish schools for blacks in the South but that would be the realistic extent for most of the gilded age elite outside of a service or catering related relationship.

What is it with you? They did exist even if in small numbers. No one is suggesting that they were in great numbers. You forget that during Reconstruction, black people made significant strides in politics and economically. There has always been a black upper class. WEB Dubois? Also, the Executive Producer is a black woman. It has nothing to do with "modern cultural pressures". They are people who want to tell a story that others may not be familiar with. Every time a black person is highlighted does not mean that someone is being woke. Maybe they just want to explore something different and teach you something. Does this mean every time you even see a black person in a position to which you are not familiar, you consider someone folding to "modern cultural pressures"? Do you live under a rock? STAY MAD ABBY!

Lets not pretend this is some educational show. This is a soap opera with pretty costumes and bad sets. if you want to learn something - read a book.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just don't like Marian or Mr. Raikes at all.

I think Mr. Raikes is meant to seem kind of sketchy. He's way too forward for the era. Marian is just a terrible actress.