The Gilded Age

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On Peggy Scott, who I also liked, I enjoyed this article:
https://www.glamour.com/story/the-gilded-age-denee-benton

I couldn't read much of it beyond some vague justification for making up history to suit modern ideologies. Do they have her going to balls and dances in the show? Or is it because of the rush to be woke, they throw in a token black character while ignoring historically more relevat social tensions and very real discriminations against, say, Jews or ethnic immigrants in late 19th century New York?

THIS. The real tensions of the times were other than black women. It doesn’t feel accurate in any way.

You are both very wrong. There was an upper class black population at the time that you clearly didn't know anything about. It's not about being "woke" just because you include a historically factual upper class black woman in the show. Shows your complete and utter ignorance. The reason they included her (if you read about it instead of pulling opinions out of your ass) you would realize that it is not often spoken about so they wanted to include it. Just because it wasn't what you believe should be relevant, doesn't make it less so.

So because it doesn't feel relevant to YOU, it's not relevant? We didn't get the memo that you were the arbiter of everything that is important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On Peggy Scott, who I also liked, I enjoyed this article:
https://www.glamour.com/story/the-gilded-age-denee-benton

I couldn't read much of it beyond some vague justification for making up history to suit modern ideologies. Do they have her going to balls and dances in the show? Or is it because of the rush to be woke, they throw in a token black character while ignoring historically more relevat social tensions and very real discriminations against, say, Jews or ethnic immigrants in late 19th century New York?

THIS. The real tensions of the times were other than black women. It doesn’t feel accurate in any way.

You are both very wrong. There was an upper class black population at the time that you clearly didn't know anything about. It's not about being "woke" just because you include a historically factual upper class black woman in the show. Shows your complete and utter ignorance. The reason they included her (if you read about it instead of pulling opinions out of your ass) you would realize that it is not often spoken about so they wanted to include it. Just because it wasn't what you believe should be relevant, doesn't make it less so.

So because it doesn't feel relevant to YOU, it's not relevant? We didn't get the memo that you were the arbiter of everything that is important.

+1. The characters are based on real people too - some say Peggy is akin to Ida B. Wells. Her editor is a real person. They were influential in that era and absolutely did interact with the other character archetypes of the era.

[Anonymous]

I know it has issues but I'm enjoying it very much. - so many of the shows I start are so twisted and graphic they stress me out - I love how chill and relaxing this one is in comparison - I'm definitely entertained.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one who thinks that the acting by Meryl Streep's daughter is... terrible? Or is the dialogue just really stilted and awkward?

You are correct. She's horrible. And Cynthia Nixon is completely mis-cast.

HA! just saw this an wrote up something just now above. She is horrible. When I initially viewed the program I kept thinking that this actress must have connections because she is horrible! Then I looked her up and saw she is Meryl Streep's daughter. Honestly, Meryl Streep is overrated in my opinion. But that's an aside for another time. The show would be so much better with another cast in place, at least replacing Cynthia Nixon, Louisa, Jacobson and Carrie Coon (who I LOVED in the Leftovers)

yes, the lead woman is so wooden. She cannot act at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On Peggy Scott, who I also liked, I enjoyed this article:
https://www.glamour.com/story/the-gilded-age-denee-benton

I couldn't read much of it beyond some vague justification for making up history to suit modern ideologies. Do they have her going to balls and dances in the show? Or is it because of the rush to be woke, they throw in a token black character while ignoring historically more relevat social tensions and very real discriminations against, say, Jews or ethnic immigrants in late 19th century New York?

THIS. The real tensions of the times were other than black women. It doesn’t feel accurate in any way.

You are both very wrong. There was an upper class black population at the time that you clearly didn't know anything about. It's not about being "woke" just because you include a historically factual upper class black woman in the show. Shows your complete and utter ignorance. The reason they included her (if you read about it instead of pulling opinions out of your ass) you would realize that it is not often spoken about so they wanted to include it. Just because it wasn't what you believe should be relevant, doesn't make it less so.

So because it doesn't feel relevant to YOU, it's not relevant? We didn't get the memo that you were the arbiter of everything that is important.

*Standing ovation*

[Anonymous]

The dresses are absolutely beautiful. The show, could be better so I keep watching and waiting for it to get better. Agree that Cynthia Nixon's part is ridiculous. I do like that (I listen to the podcast) they insert true parts of history in the show. Nathan Lane's character is based on a true person. Clara Barton founded the first chapter of the Red Cross in Dansville NY, where in the show, they traveled to see her.

[Anonymous]

The architect the son works for was a real person also.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one who thinks that the acting by Meryl Streep's daughter is... terrible? Or is the dialogue just really stilted and awkward?

You are correct. She's horrible. And Cynthia Nixon is completely mis-cast.

HA! just saw this an wrote up something just now above. She is horrible. When I initially viewed the program I kept thinking that this actress must have connections because she is horrible! Then I looked her up and saw she is Meryl Streep's daughter. Honestly, Meryl Streep is overrated in my opinion. But that's an aside for another time. The show would be so much better with another cast in place, at least replacing Cynthia Nixon, Louisa, Jacobson and Carrie Coon (who I LOVED in the Leftovers)

yes, the lead woman is so wooden. She cannot act at all.

agree, she is so bland

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one who thinks that the acting by Meryl Streep's daughter is... terrible? Or is the dialogue just really stilted and awkward?

You are correct. She's horrible. And Cynthia Nixon is completely mis-cast.

HA! just saw this an wrote up something just now above. She is horrible. When I initially viewed the program I kept thinking that this actress must have connections because she is horrible! Then I looked her up and saw she is Meryl Streep's daughter. Honestly, Meryl Streep is overrated in my opinion. But that's an aside for another time. The show would be so much better with another cast in place, at least replacing Cynthia Nixon, Louisa, Jacobson and Carrie Coon (who I LOVED in the Leftovers)

yes, the lead woman is so wooden. She cannot act at all.

I like Carrie Coon in this. And Christine Baranski. Cynthia Nixon is grating and the lead character who plays Miss Brook is just plain bad. They should marry her off or kill her off. Seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know it has issues but I'm enjoying it very much. - so many of the shows I start are so twisted and graphic they stress me out - I love how chill and relaxing this one is in comparison - I'm definitely entertained.

+1000, both my husband and I enjoy watching it. I like that I can relax and not get stressed watching a movie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On Peggy Scott, who I also liked, I enjoyed this article:
https://www.glamour.com/story/the-gilded-age-denee-benton

I couldn't read much of it beyond some vague justification for making up history to suit modern ideologies. Do they have her going to balls and dances in the show? Or is it because of the rush to be woke, they throw in a token black character while ignoring historically more relevat social tensions and very real discriminations against, say, Jews or ethnic immigrants in late 19th century New York?

THIS. The real tensions of the times were other than black women. It doesn’t feel accurate in any way.

You are both very wrong. There was an upper class black population at the time that you clearly didn't know anything about. It's not about being "woke" just because you include a historically factual upper class black woman in the show. Shows your complete and utter ignorance. The reason they included her (if you read about it instead of pulling opinions out of your ass) you would realize that it is not often spoken about so they wanted to include it. Just because it wasn't what you believe should be relevant, doesn't make it less so.

So because it doesn't feel relevant to YOU, it's not relevant? We didn't get the memo that you were the arbiter of everything that is important.

*Standing ovation*

The number of black Americans in the 19th century who could have been described as upper class or even middle class was so small that it would only be a slight exaggeration to say you could count them on one hand. The best description I've read of 19th century black Americans is that they were as invisible as anyone could be. They just did not factor in most people's lives. That's how severe the racism was. It was also helped by that the black population north of the Mason Dixon line was small and it wasn't until the great migration starting after WWI that northern cities started having larger and more visible black populations. Almost all the servants in 19th century north were Irish/immigrants, for example, not black.

For the gilded age upper class New York, black Americans were not something they thought much about. To be seen in a social situation with a black person who wasn't a servant was both rare and certainly would have been commented upon. The social tensions they experienced were with up and coming new wealth, especially Jews.

That the show's producers would chose to focus on a middle class black person is certainly due to modern cultural pressures. Because if you wanted to capture the flavor of the period, you wouldn't have black characters other than servants. Because that was the extent of black people in the world of the gilded age upper classes. Racial consciousness and civil rights were decidedly not fashionable thoughts. The late 19th century was the entrenchment, often quite brutal, of Jim Crow in the South along with a steady loss of the initial civil rights promised by amendments of the late 1860s, and it happened with the indifference of the North, and it wasn't till around WWI that you saw an emergence of a more progressive-minded and sympathetic outlook among a certain segment of Northern elites (still fairly small), which did help to set the frameworks for the early civil rights movement.

I do think it'd be fascinating to have a show about an Ida B. Wells character and her struggles with the pervasive bigotry of late 19th century and early 20th century America, but trying to tie her with the gilded elite of the Vanderbilts and Astors is difficult, if not outright silly, if you're aiming for accuracy. Perhaps you could pull off an episode with a visiting lecturer raising funds to establish schools for blacks in the South but that would be the realistic extent for most of the gilded age elite outside of a service or catering related relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On Peggy Scott, who I also liked, I enjoyed this article:
https://www.glamour.com/story/the-gilded-age-denee-benton

I couldn't read much of it beyond some vague justification for making up history to suit modern ideologies. Do they have her going to balls and dances in the show? Or is it because of the rush to be woke, they throw in a token black character while ignoring historically more relevat social tensions and very real discriminations against, say, Jews or ethnic immigrants in late 19th century New York?

THIS. The real tensions of the times were other than black women. It doesn’t feel accurate in any way.

You are both very wrong. There was an upper class black population at the time that you clearly didn't know anything about. It's not about being "woke" just because you include a historically factual upper class black woman in the show. Shows your complete and utter ignorance. The reason they included her (if you read about it instead of pulling opinions out of your ass) you would realize that it is not often spoken about so they wanted to include it. Just because it wasn't what you believe should be relevant, doesn't make it less so.

So because it doesn't feel relevant to YOU, it's not relevant? We didn't get the memo that you were the arbiter of everything that is important.

*Standing ovation*

The number of black Americans in the 19th century who could have been described as upper class or even middle class was so small that it would only be a slight exaggeration to say you could count them on one hand. The best description I've read of 19th century black Americans is that they were as invisible as anyone could be. They just did not factor in most people's lives. That's how severe the racism was. It was also helped by that the black population north of the Mason Dixon line was small and it wasn't until the great migration starting after WWI that northern cities started having larger and more visible black populations. Almost all the servants in 19th century north were Irish/immigrants, for example, not black.

For the gilded age upper class New York, black Americans were not something they thought much about. To be seen in a social situation with a black person who wasn't a servant was both rare and certainly would have been commented upon. The social tensions they experienced were with up and coming new wealth, especially Jews.

That the show's producers would chose to focus on a middle class black person is certainly due to modern cultural pressures. Because if you wanted to capture the flavor of the period, you wouldn't have black characters other than servants. Because that was the extent of black people in the world of the gilded age upper classes. Racial consciousness and civil rights were decidedly not fashionable thoughts. The late 19th century was the entrenchment, often quite brutal, of Jim Crow in the South along with a steady loss of the initial civil rights promised by amendments of the late 1860s, and it happened with the indifference of the North, and it wasn't till around WWI that you saw an emergence of a more progressive-minded and sympathetic outlook among a certain segment of Northern elites (still fairly small), which did help to set the frameworks for the early civil rights movement.

I do think it'd be fascinating to have a show about an Ida B. Wells character and her struggles with the pervasive bigotry of late 19th century and early 20th century America, but trying to tie her with the gilded elite of the Vanderbilts and Astors is difficult, if not outright silly, if you're aiming for accuracy. Perhaps you could pull off an episode with a visiting lecturer raising funds to establish schools for blacks in the South but that would be the realistic extent for most of the gilded age elite outside of a service or catering related relationship.

I don’t think the facts are on your side.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2022-02-07/the-gilded-age-hbo-peggy-scott-black-american-history

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/14/arts/television/the-gilded-age-black-history.html

[Anonymous]

In fact, an old money family of means from PENNSYLVANIA would definitely count the "up-liftment' of the black race as part of their charitable causes, and Peggy's presence DOES cause comment and even outright racism and bigotry. There were small enclaves of black wealth in the north, and specifically in New York City. I think its actually the only interesting part of the show. Peggy's interactions with Marion are b/c she chooses to sit with her at the train station, therefore Peggy knows that she isn't bigoted , this is underscored by her NOT accusing Peggy of taking her purse. A young white woman who was the secretary wouldn't use the servants stairs/entrance but its taken for granted even this "enlightened" household that this is what any visitor if color must do. I know that it doesn't suit your imagination but black people were able to make decent lives from themselves. I didn't se any of this quarreling with a young turk showing up in Downton Abby and then having the bad taste to sleep with one of the young ladies of the household. Turks especially were considered oversexed and dangerous, someone would've shown unease around him being around the young Christian ladies. And this never raised an eyebrow.

[Anonymous]

I’m not nearly as critical as the vast majority of posters. I really like Peggy’s story. I like Marian’s too, and the friendship arc. They have shown Marian’s many missteps due to her curiosity and assumptions. The most interesting turn is in the latest episode when Peggy gets to go to Edison’s event, but not Marian. I think the scene was great showing that Black Americans were very present at these events, even if history ignored it.

[Anonymous]

The Black people are the only interesting part of this show.