ROI for attending 70K+ colleges & Universities

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

That's a cool story but peers honestly do not help you get jobs when you are in a high powered profession with actual skills involved. If you don't have the ability and intelligence, no amount of networking is going to help you unless you are from a filthy rich family. Also, virtually no networking occurs at the undergraduate level, at least not important networking. Even in ivy league graduate professional programs, alumni networking and school loyalty play a fairly small role in ability to move up in an industry. In the top firms in most industries, there are many checks and balances concerning how subordinate evaluations are conducted. For example, at many top consulting, accounting, and finance firms you have to be evaluated by multiple superiors, and they then have to take your ratings and reviews to a central meeting among partners/directors/etc. who then benchmark across multiple offices and come to joint decisions about who gets promoted, who gets what raise, etc. The only way "networking" would in any way help you is if multiple of your powerful superiors happened to be networked in with you due to school loyalty or experience, and then put more weight on that than your actual value added. I think "networking is the reason to go to top 20 schools" is just something parents tell themselves to justify wasting a bunch of money. I say this as a professor who has both professional degrees from and has taught in the ivy league.

Are you arguing that any ivy league education isn't a good ROI for a family that can afford it, but isn't filthy rich (for example, HHNW of $3-5m) whose child is bright enough to get accepted?

Some of my my best friends and clients are former classmates, but I suppose that might also be true if I attended a public university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, if you view college through a purely transactional lens, and your definition of success only involves salary, then of course someone with that mindset should not spend money on a private college.

Also, I see that you assume those private college alumni were full-pay students for all four years of college. If your college didn't teach you critical thinking skills (you know, such as to realize many kids at private schools don't pay full tuition), you might want to ask for some of your money back that your parents paid for you.

This x100

But you and I are not going to convince anyone here, PP. This site loves its transactional "ROI or bust" mindset re: all things collegiate.

[Anonymous]

If anyone wants to base a college search on ROI, then they are free to do so.

Just don't assume the rest of us are idiots for not doing so. Stay open to the possibility that different people can prioritize different things. If they are not spending your money, it is not your concern.

[Anonymous]

Without more stats, this could be the case of one stellar GMU CS student, two average UVA and NW CS grads + one below average CMU CS grad.

It may just prove that even an below average CMU CS student, who didn't end up at FAANG with > $150K salary could still get a decent job.

Just saying...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We just hired five recently CS graduates in our technology division; one from CMU, one from Northeastern, one from UCLA, one from UVA, and one from GMU. All of them were offered the same salary at 115K/year. In other words, the graduate from GMU makes the same salary as the graduate from CMU and Northeastern, and the cost to attend GMU is more than less than half of CMU and Northeastern.

That’s a quite high salary for a new CS grad - I work for a large software company and we don’t pay nearly that much for new grads in CS. We pay well, don’t get me wrong, but not that high.

That said, good talented people can be found in many environments and the stars will shine no matter where they are located.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That's a cool story but peers honestly do not help you get jobs when you are in a high powered profession with actual skills involved. If you don't have the ability and intelligence, no amount of networking is going to help you unless you are from a filthy rich family. Also, virtually no networking occurs at the undergraduate level, at least not important networking. Even in ivy league graduate professional programs, alumni networking and school loyalty play a fairly small role in ability to move up in an industry. In the top firms in most industries, there are many checks and balances concerning how subordinate evaluations are conducted. For example, at many top consulting, accounting, and finance firms you have to be evaluated by multiple superiors, and they then have to take your ratings and reviews to a central meeting among partners/directors/etc. who then benchmark across multiple offices and come to joint decisions about who gets promoted, who gets what raise, etc. The only way "networking" would in any way help you is if multiple of your powerful superiors happened to be networked in with you due to school loyalty or experience, and then put more weight on that than your actual value added. I think "networking is the reason to go to top 20 schools" is just something parents tell themselves to justify wasting a bunch of money. I say this as a professor who has both professional degrees from and has taught in the ivy league.

Are you arguing that any ivy league education isn't a good ROI for a family that can afford it, but isn't filthy rich (for example, HHNW of $3-5m) whose child is bright enough to get accepted?

Some of my my best friends and clients are former classmates, but I suppose that might also be true if I attended a public university.

I'm actually arguing an even broader point than that. I'm arguing that, given one's intelligence, intrinsic motivation and ability as a child, and holding career/interests constant, it is almost irrelevant where the person attends college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sent my kid to public k-12, so I could send him to a private university.

+1. The ROI for private K - 12 should be considered.

[Anonymous]

My tacos at lunch today were too spicy. Therefore, all tacos are too spicy.

More to college than just ROI. Also do not know how much those families at various colleges actually paid in tuition. Or how motivated the students are, or whether they have any other helpful credentials. Or what their eventual career track will look like for those hellbent on financial ROI over a career.

Critical thinking...it matters.

[Anonymous]

Not sure what OP's point is. A $70k vacation at French Riviera beats $10k vacation in Ocean City. A sample size of 1 can't draw any conclusion. But top CMU CS grads are doing amazing things. Top GMU grads find a job at government contracting.

It's also a meaningless comparison. GMU students can't get into UVA or CMU. They don't have a choice of UVA or CMU experience. College experience is not about first paycheck after college. Even if that's the only measure, a real analysis with sample size greater than 1 student or 1 company will show the opposite of what OP was trying to imply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:College is about more than your first job. Peer groups are important, too. Some people make life long friendships in college that turn into business partnerships, career opportunities, private investing opportunities, marriages. I'm hoping my son will go to an ivy or a nescac school and continue his team sport there. I'll love him just the same wherever he ends up, but I'm gently nudging him that direction and prepared to pay for it.

right, but you don't have to go to a $80k school for that? I went to a state school and all of these things apply to me (and many of my peers).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure what OP's point is. A $70k vacation at French Riviera beats $10k vacation in Ocean City. A sample size of 1 can't draw any conclusion. But top CMU CS grads are doing amazing things. Top GMU grads find a job at government contracting.

It's also a meaningless comparison. GMU students can't get into UVA or CMU. They don't have a choice of UVA or CMU experience. College experience is not about first paycheck after college. Even if that's the only measure, a real analysis with sample size greater than 1 student or 1 company will show the opposite of what OP was trying to imply.

actually the research is pretty clear that for students of equal ability (e.g. students who got into Ivy and state flagship but go to state flagship) have virtually identical career outcomes. Which tells us that the school itself isn't really important- the differences we see is simply because of the delta in the students themselves at say, GMU and Harvard. Which, duh. But it's not the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure what OP's point is. A $70k vacation at French Riviera beats $10k vacation in Ocean City. A sample size of 1 can't draw any conclusion. But top CMU CS grads are doing amazing things. Top GMU grads find a job at government contracting.

It's also a meaningless comparison. GMU students can't get into UVA or CMU. They don't have a choice of UVA or CMU experience. College experience is not about first paycheck after college. Even if that's the only measure, a real analysis with sample size greater than 1 student or 1 company will show the opposite of what OP was trying to imply.

actually the research is pretty clear that for students of equal ability (e.g. students who got into Ivy and state flagship but go to state flagship) have virtually identical career outcomes. Which tells us that the school itself isn't really important- the differences we see is simply because of the delta in the students themselves at say, GMU and Harvard. Which, duh. But it's not the school.

The top CMU grads are going to employers who would never thing to recruit at GMU. OP was probably hiring the best of one school and the bottom of another

[Anonymous]

This has been the most interesting thread. DS just started at CMU. He loves the CMU curriculum the most out of all of the schools he was accepted into. The good news for DH and I is we started saving for 529 early enough so we are covered. We will see how he fares in 4 years.

[Anonymous]

DD is at an ivy. She got a summer internship based on a relationship with a prof whose class she took. Her internship mentor had a friend working on her campus that he called to recommend her for a research spot. Connections have helped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DD is at an ivy. She got a summer internship based on a relationship with a prof whose class she took. Her internship mentor had a friend working on her campus that he called to recommend her for a research spot. Connections have helped.

Adding she is only a sophomore.