Elaine Tholen's recall is goin to court

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guys, no judge is going to want to set the legal precedent that would allow a small subset of the electorate the ability to get an elected official thrown out outside of regular election cycle just because those people didn't agree with the way the elected official handled a particular issue.

Americans have the power to recall for a reason.

it's a state right not a federal right and the signatures are the first step in a very long process

It's not such a very long process.

Signatures are gathered and presented to circuit court - done

Signatures are reviewed for form - done


Order to show cause is issued to public official - done

Official appears in court and defends conduct - pending

Judge rules on whether official has rebutted grounds set forth in petition

- if yes, petition dismissed

- if so, official removed and new election ordered

^ "if no" rather than "if so"

you forgot the trial by Jury with the commonwealth being represented by an elected democratic official - good luck with that

You really think Tholen is going to ask for a trial by jury? That may be her legal right, but then it really will look like she is "on trial." My expectation is she'll waive.

And if the Commonwealth's Attorney doesn't represent the petitioners, as legally obligated to do by statute, he/she can be sanctioned by the court.

[Anonymous]

What a waste of time and resources. And so creepy how school board recalls are part of a nationwide, right wing campaign.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guys, no judge is going to want to set the legal precedent that would allow a small subset of the electorate the ability to get an elected official thrown out outside of regular election cycle just because those people didn't agree with the way the elected official handled a particular issue.

Americans have the power to recall for a reason.

it's a state right not a federal right and the signatures are the first step in a very long process

It's not such a very long process.

Signatures are gathered and presented to circuit court - done

Signatures are reviewed for form - done


Order to show cause is issued to public official - done

Official appears in court and defends conduct - pending

Judge rules on whether official has rebutted grounds set forth in petition

- if yes, petition dismissed

- if so, official removed and new election ordered

^ "if no" rather than "if so"

you forgot the trial by Jury with the commonwealth being represented by an elected democratic official - good luck with that

You really think Tholen is going to ask for a trial by jury? That may be her legal right, but then it really will look like she is "on trial." My expectation is she'll waive.

And if the Commonwealth's Attorney doesn't represent the petitioners, as legally obligated to do by statute, he/she can be sanctioned by the court.

The commonwealth attorney can state that they see no validity in the petition and then rest their case

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What a waste of time and resources. And so creepy how school board recalls are part of a nationwide, right wing campaign.

It's not that surprising. Many people suppressed their dissatisfaction with the direction that left-leaning school boards were taking for some time for fear of being called Trump supporters. Trump is out of power, and people - including many Democrats - have emerged to try and stop the excesses of misguided school boards like the FCPS School Board. The poor response to Covid-19 just kicked it into a higher gear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guys, no judge is going to want to set the legal precedent that would allow a small subset of the electorate the ability to get an elected official thrown out outside of regular election cycle just because those people didn't agree with the way the elected official handled a particular issue.

Americans have the power to recall for a reason.

it's a state right not a federal right and the signatures are the first step in a very long process

It's not such a very long process.

Signatures are gathered and presented to circuit court - done

Signatures are reviewed for form - done


Order to show cause is issued to public official - done

Official appears in court and defends conduct - pending

Judge rules on whether official has rebutted grounds set forth in petition

- if yes, petition dismissed

- if so, official removed and new election ordered

^ "if no" rather than "if so"

you forgot the trial by Jury with the commonwealth being represented by an elected democratic official - good luck with that

You really think Tholen is going to ask for a trial by jury? That may be her legal right, but then it really will look like she is "on trial." My expectation is she'll waive.

And if the Commonwealth's Attorney doesn't represent the petitioners, as legally obligated to do by statute, he/she can be sanctioned by the court.

The commonwealth attorney can state that they see no validity in the petition and then rest their case

That would be a dereliction of statutory duty. And it would also be a gift to those behind the recall efforts heading into future elections - like the police arresting suspects and Steve Descano refusing to prosecute any of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guys, no judge is going to want to set the legal precedent that would allow a small subset of the electorate the ability to get an elected official thrown out outside of regular election cycle just because those people didn't agree with the way the elected official handled a particular issue.

Americans have the power to recall for a reason.

it's a state right not a federal right and the signatures are the first step in a very long process

It's not such a very long process.

Signatures are gathered and presented to circuit court - done

Signatures are reviewed for form - done


Order to show cause is issued to public official - done

Official appears in court and defends conduct - pending

Judge rules on whether official has rebutted grounds set forth in petition

- if yes, petition dismissed

- if so, official removed and new election ordered

^ "if no" rather than "if so"

you forgot the trial by Jury with the commonwealth being represented by an elected democratic official - good luck with that

You really think Tholen is going to ask for a trial by jury? That may be her legal right, but then it really will look like she is "on trial." My expectation is she'll waive.

And if the Commonwealth's Attorney doesn't represent the petitioners, as legally obligated to do by statute, he/she can be sanctioned by the court.

The commonwealth attorney can state that they see no validity in the petition and then rest their case

That would be a dereliction of statutory duty. And it would also be a gift to those behind the recall efforts heading into future elections - like the police arresting suspects and Steve Descano refusing to prosecute any of them.

do you have a citation for that (code or caselaw)?

5k out of a county with over 1 million residents signed. If this goes through, expect every elected official to be recalled constantly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guys, no judge is going to want to set the legal precedent that would allow a small subset of the electorate the ability to get an elected official thrown out outside of regular election cycle just because those people didn't agree with the way the elected official handled a particular issue.

Americans have the power to recall for a reason.

it's a state right not a federal right and the signatures are the first step in a very long process

It's not such a very long process.

Signatures are gathered and presented to circuit court - done

Signatures are reviewed for form - done


Order to show cause is issued to public official - done

Official appears in court and defends conduct - pending

Judge rules on whether official has rebutted grounds set forth in petition

- if yes, petition dismissed

- if so, official removed and new election ordered

^ "if no" rather than "if so"

you forgot the trial by Jury with the commonwealth being represented by an elected democratic official - good luck with that

You really think Tholen is going to ask for a trial by jury? That may be her legal right, but then it really will look like she is "on trial." My expectation is she'll waive.

And if the Commonwealth's Attorney doesn't represent the petitioners, as legally obligated to do by statute, he/she can be sanctioned by the court.

The commonwealth attorney can state that they see no validity in the petition and then rest their case

That would be a dereliction of statutory duty. And it would also be a gift to those behind the recall efforts heading into future elections - like the police arresting suspects and Steve Descano refusing to prosecute any of them.

do you have a citation for that (code or caselaw)?

5k out of a county with over 1 million residents signed. If this goes through, expect every elected official to be recalled constantly.

Recalls are not based off county population.

They are based off a percentage of the people who voted in that members jurisdiction the last election.

This is a normal part of the political process.

It is similar to the impeachment, except it is local grassroots driven directly by the school board members constituents, unlike impeachments which are almost entirely politically driven.

Be happy and proud that your fellow citizens are participating in the legal democratic process. No matter your party, this is a good thing for the citizens of fairfax county to have this level of engagement at the local level. No matter what happens in the end, this citizen driven engagement is a tremendous win for the students, parents, teachers and taxpayers of Fairfax County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guys, no judge is going to want to set the legal precedent that would allow a small subset of the electorate the ability to get an elected official thrown out outside of regular election cycle just because those people didn't agree with the way the elected official handled a particular issue.

Americans have the power to recall for a reason.

it's a state right not a federal right and the signatures are the first step in a very long process

It's not such a very long process.

Signatures are gathered and presented to circuit court - done

Signatures are reviewed for form - done


Order to show cause is issued to public official - done

Official appears in court and defends conduct - pending

Judge rules on whether official has rebutted grounds set forth in petition

- if yes, petition dismissed

- if so, official removed and new election ordered

^ "if no" rather than "if so"

you forgot the trial by Jury with the commonwealth being represented by an elected democratic official - good luck with that

You really think Tholen is going to ask for a trial by jury? That may be her legal right, but then it really will look like she is "on trial." My expectation is she'll waive.

And if the Commonwealth's Attorney doesn't represent the petitioners, as legally obligated to do by statute, he/she can be sanctioned by the court.

The commonwealth attorney can state that they see no validity in the petition and then rest their case

That would be a dereliction of statutory duty. And it would also be a gift to those behind the recall efforts heading into future elections - like the police arresting suspects and Steve Descano refusing to prosecute any of them.

do you have a citation for that (code or caselaw)?

5k out of a county with over 1 million residents signed. If this goes through, expect every elected official to be recalled constantly.

It's clear from § 24.2-237 that the Commonwealth's Attorney is directed to serve in a prosecutorial capacity in a proceeding where the official subject to recall is the "defendant."

The statute has also been on the books for almost 50 years, and there haven't been constant recalls, so your speculation has no basis in fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guys, no judge is going to want to set the legal precedent that would allow a small subset of the electorate the ability to get an elected official thrown out outside of regular election cycle just because those people didn't agree with the way the elected official handled a particular issue.

This, if all it takes is 5,000 signatures, I’d expect every elected official to be regularly recalled

What's the problem with that?
Plus it takes more than 5000 for many elected officials. It is based on how many votes he got last time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guys, no judge is going to want to set the legal precedent that would allow a small subset of the electorate the ability to get an elected official thrown out outside of regular election cycle just because those people didn't agree with the way the elected official handled a particular issue.

Americans have the power to recall for a reason.

it's a state right not a federal right and the signatures are the first step in a very long process

It's not such a very long process.

Signatures are gathered and presented to circuit court - done

Signatures are reviewed for form - done


Order to show cause is issued to public official - done

Official appears in court and defends conduct - pending

Judge rules on whether official has rebutted grounds set forth in petition

- if yes, petition dismissed

- if so, official removed and new election ordered

^ "if no" rather than "if so"

you forgot the trial by Jury with the commonwealth being represented by an elected democratic official - good luck with that

You really think Tholen is going to ask for a trial by jury? That may be her legal right, but then it really will look like she is "on trial." My expectation is she'll waive.

And if the Commonwealth's Attorney doesn't represent the petitioners, as legally obligated to do by statute, he/she can be sanctioned by the court.

The commonwealth attorney can state that they see no validity in the petition and then rest their case

That would be a dereliction of statutory duty. And it would also be a gift to those behind the recall efforts heading into future elections - like the police arresting suspects and Steve Descano refusing to prosecute any of them.

do you have a citation for that (code or caselaw)?

5k out of a county with over 1 million residents signed. If this goes through, expect every elected official to be recalled constantly.

It's clear from § 24.2-237 that the Commonwealth's Attorney is directed to serve in a prosecutorial capacity in a proceeding where the official subject to recall is the "defendant."

The statute has also been on the books for almost 50 years, and there haven't been constant recalls, so your speculation has no basis in fact.

1. to me that implies prosecutorial discretion would be allowable - do you have a citation that states otherwise

2. republicans have only weaponized recall petitions recently

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guys, no judge is going to want to set the legal precedent that would allow a small subset of the electorate the ability to get an elected official thrown out outside of regular election cycle just because those people didn't agree with the way the elected official handled a particular issue.

Americans have the power to recall for a reason.

it's a state right not a federal right and the signatures are the first step in a very long process

It's not such a very long process.

Signatures are gathered and presented to circuit court - done

Signatures are reviewed for form - done


Order to show cause is issued to public official - done

Official appears in court and defends conduct - pending

Judge rules on whether official has rebutted grounds set forth in petition

- if yes, petition dismissed

- if so, official removed and new election ordered

^ "if no" rather than "if so"

you forgot the trial by Jury with the commonwealth being represented by an elected democratic official - good luck with that

You really think Tholen is going to ask for a trial by jury? That may be her legal right, but then it really will look like she is "on trial." My expectation is she'll waive.

And if the Commonwealth's Attorney doesn't represent the petitioners, as legally obligated to do by statute, he/she can be sanctioned by the court.

The commonwealth attorney can state that they see no validity in the petition and then rest their case

That would be a dereliction of statutory duty. And it would also be a gift to those behind the recall efforts heading into future elections - like the police arresting suspects and Steve Descano refusing to prosecute any of them.

do you have a citation for that (code or caselaw)?

5k out of a county with over 1 million residents signed. If this goes through, expect every elected official to be recalled constantly.

It's clear from § 24.2-237 that the Commonwealth's Attorney is directed to serve in a prosecutorial capacity in a proceeding where the official subject to recall is the "defendant."

The statute has also been on the books for almost 50 years, and there haven't been constant recalls, so your speculation has no basis in fact.

1. to me that implies prosecutorial discretion would be allowable - do you have a citation that states otherwise

2. republicans have only weaponized recall petitions recently

Read into it what you will. If Descano directs his office to punt he will be the next to get recalled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's break this down. As a practical matter, this means the circuit court judge was satisfied the signatures were legitimately collected and properly presented. Once she so concluded, the issuance of the "order to show cause" to Tholen was mandated under Virginia law. It doesn't mean the court will ultimately order a new election, or decide that Tholen should be removed. It does mean the burden has shifted to Tholen to establish that she didn't violate her responsibilities as a School Board member.

Odds are that Tholen will still prevail. But even if it doesn't lead to her removal from office in 2021, Tholen has been weak and self-serving and Dranesville should elect a different School Board member in 2023.

This. This is totally standard that the judge would issue an order to show cause in this case. No way they actually win. I don’t like Tholen, but zero chance that she doesn’t prevail here. Other districts across the country also did not open. -Lawyer who deals in this space

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Guys, no judge is going to want to set the legal precedent that would allow a small subset of the electorate the ability to get an elected official thrown out outside of regular election cycle just because those people didn't agree with the way the elected official handled a particular issue.

Oh boy, here come the legal eagles again. You guys are clearly hack lawyers if you have nothing better to do then throw out your constantly wrong opinions and guarantees about the outcomes of these cases. I'm glad I'm married to a lawyer that went to a real law school and has a real career.

[Anonymous]

Looking at past recall efforts, the odds are pretty good that Steve Descano, the Commonwealth's Attorney for Fairfax County, will end up filing a pre-hearing brief arguing that the case should not go to trial because there is not clear and convincing evidence that Tholen abused her position. And then the circuit court judge will likely accept that recommendation, unless it's so blatantly partisan that it can't be accepted (in which case the judge would rebuke Descano's office for not taking their job seriously).

When that happens, there will be additional ammunition for those seeking to recall Descano, and the groups that pushed the recall will say the Democratic establishment in Fairfax County ignores parents and should be voted out in future elections. It's not great for Tholen because it will calling attention again to the fact that the petition organizers got enough signatures to get a county prosecutor involved, but it's not going to unseat her before 2023.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guys, no judge is going to want to set the legal precedent that would allow a small subset of the electorate the ability to get an elected official thrown out outside of regular election cycle just because those people didn't agree with the way the elected official handled a particular issue.

Oh boy, here come the legal eagles again. You guys are clearly hack lawyers if you have nothing better to do then throw out your constantly wrong opinions and guarantees about the outcomes of these cases. I'm glad I'm married to a lawyer that went to a real law school and has a real career.

Or maybe you don't want anyone dashing cold water on your petitions until you've filed for Cohen, too, dunno.