Stigma against "young moms"?

[Anonymous]

I whole heartedly agree with below!

Anonymous wrote:..
I love young moms and old moms and women who are not moms and working women and trans women and tired women and happy women and all the women.
You are all doing great. .. Everything else is immaterial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's unquestionably a thing in the highly educated, UMC, elite professional circles that people like Liz Bruenig run in

This.

And if you were in a different socio-economic bracket in a different part of the country, having your kids in your mid to late 30s would be a thing.

It's not personal. You're just going against the herd a bit in terms of timing and people will endlessly comment on people who are outside the norm because it makes insecure people feel forced to question their own decision making. If everyone does the same thing, it feels safer.

OP here. I get this but it's weird that people still feel the need to comment on it to me at 39 because I have a thirteen year old and they maybe have a toddler or baby. I sometimes feel like saying, look I'm sorry you're stuck in the parenting trenches right now but you'll come out on the other side too, lol. It doesn't stay that hard forever.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't be disappointed at all at my son or daughters having children at 25 or even younger, as long as they were married. I have 3 kids, soon to be 4 if all goes well, so I am not anti-kids at all. Many of my friends have larger families than mine and I'd be open to more myself.

Bruenig's article rubbed me the wrong way mostly for a reason totally unrelated to young parenthood, which was that she repeatedly tried to paint herself and her husband as facing financial hardship in ways I found misleading.

On the actual topic, I also thought she was way too dramatic about the transition to parenthood in a way that I actually thought was likely to increase women's hesitance to have kids. Like, yes, kids are a lot of work and a big commitment, but you don't have to "desert yourself for another person," or look deep into your baby's eyes to see yourself. I still work, I still read and learn new things, DH and I still have friends and family. We are not trying to see ourselves in our kids, they are their own people. We just try to help them grow and develop to be healthy and happy.

[Anonymous]

I think in DC and other areas filled with highly educated people, it's not as common to run into mothers who had their first kid at 25, because that means they didn't go to grad school or, if they did, they didn't have much of a career before they had their kids.

One of my best friends from college lives in a small town in NC. She has a PhD and is a professor but the moms on her son's baseball team treat her like she's a grandma because she didn't have him before she was 24.

So I guess I'd say, in my mind, and my world (which is admittedly a very limited universe, having grown up on the west coast in a highly educated area as well), the people I know who had kids younger are either SAHMs now because they didn't have careers before having kids, or they don't have multiple degrees. Most of my friends have not only college degrees, obviously, but one or two degrees after that, so many of us weren't fully done with school or settled beyond our first year in our jobs before we were 30.

Personally, I'd rather my kids have their kids between 30 and 34. I think there's a lot to do before you turn 30 and having kids then changes that. Not to say there's anything wrong with having children earlier, but you asked for my opinion, so there you have it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe but my mom faced a lot of backlash in 1967 when she had my sister at age 20. and she had been married for two years. So not necessarily anything new?

My mom had me at age 26 in 1975. She said at one of her appointments the nurse looked at her age on the chart and said "Wow! You're really old for a first time mom!"

[Anonymous]

Of course there is.

I had about 7 friends get pregnant in HS and 7 more in college (with long term boyfriends).

A few had the children and they turned out fine/amazing/thriving. The pressure to not have the children was immense. The shame, the horror, the moral failing, the stigma, the "you ruined 2 lives" BS.

Here is a person I find very astute on the matter and trying to change this.

https://twitter.com/DrLizAparicio/status/1392629384784265224?s=20

[Anonymous]

around places like DC and NYC, yes. Places like Texas and Utah. No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't be disappointed at all at my son or daughters having children at 25 or even younger, as long as they were married. I have 3 kids, soon to be 4 if all goes well, so I am not anti-kids at all. Many of my friends have larger families than mine and I'd be open to more myself.

Bruenig's article rubbed me the wrong way mostly for a reason totally unrelated to young parenthood, which was that she repeatedly tried to paint herself and her husband as facing financial hardship in ways I found misleading.

On the actual topic, I also thought she was way too dramatic about the transition to parenthood in a way that I actually thought was likely to increase women's hesitance to have kids. Like, yes, kids are a lot of work and a big commitment, but you don't have to "desert yourself for another person," or look deep into your baby's eyes to see yourself. I still work, I still read and learn new things, DH and I still have friends and family. We are not trying to see ourselves in our kids, they are their own people. We just try to help them grow and develop to be healthy and happy.

yeah this came up a LOT in the comments section. Do they have rich parents or something?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's unquestionably a thing in the highly educated, UMC, elite professional circles that people like Liz Bruenig run in

This.

And if you were in a different socio-economic bracket in a different part of the country, having your kids in your mid to late 30s would be a thing.

It's not personal. You're just going against the herd a bit in terms of timing and people will endlessly comment on people who are outside the norm because it makes insecure people feel forced to question their own decision making. If everyone does the same thing, it feels safer.

OP here. I get this but it's weird that people still feel the need to comment on it to me at 39 because I have a thirteen year old and they maybe have a toddler or baby. I sometimes feel like saying, look I'm sorry you're stuck in the parenting trenches right now but you'll come out on the other side too, lol. It doesn't stay that hard forever.

That's kind of rude.

Unless the people who have the toddler or baby are rude to you, like saying "oh, well, you must not have gone to college" or something similar, there's no reason to be flippant to them. Being surprised that you have a 13-year old when you're 39 isn't rude in and of itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think in DC and other areas filled with highly educated people, it's not as common to run into mothers who had their first kid at 25, because that means they didn't go to grad school or, if they did, they didn't have much of a career before they had their kids.

One of my best friends from college lives in a small town in NC. She has a PhD and is a professor but the moms on her son's baseball team treat her like she's a grandma because she didn't have him before she was 24.

So I guess I'd say, in my mind, and my world (which is admittedly a very limited universe, having grown up on the west coast in a highly educated area as well), the people I know who had kids younger are either SAHMs now because they didn't have careers before having kids, or they don't have multiple degrees. Most of my friends have not only college degrees, obviously, but one or two degrees after that, so many of us weren't fully done with school or settled beyond our first year in our jobs before we were 30.

Personally, I'd rather my kids have their kids between 30 and 34. I think there's a lot to do before you turn 30 and having kids then changes that. Not to say there's anything wrong with having children earlier, but you asked for my opinion, so there you have it.

Your believe system is that if you have children in your 20's you can't get an education/Masters/Ph.D.?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is stigma against young mothers. There is stigma against older mothers. There is stigma against working moms. There is stigma against SAHMs. There is stigma against women who chose not to become a mother. There is stigma against women who struggle to become moms (though weirdly it’s started to feel like this is the one woman we’re ok with because she wants to be a mom but hasn’t achieved it — we feel sorry for her but don’t hate her, lucky her).

So often these conversations wind up falling apart as women argue over their choices and options and how they are treated by other women... there is no way to resolve it among ourselves. Women are set up to compete with each other and them criticized when we do.

It’s misogyny. All of it. And the best thing we as women could do is simply support and defend each other against it, rather than seizing an opportunity to position ourselves as “one of the good women who made the right choices.” You see, there are no right choices. Half the time, what is treated as choice is not.

I love young moms and old moms and women who are not moms and working women and trans women and tired women and happy women and all the women. You are all doing great. Let’s make sure we all have access to healthcare (including abortions and birth control), access to economic independence, and freedom from harassment and assault. Everything else is immaterial.

/endthread

Seriously, this is it. We’re all set up to believe we’re one of the good ones and to criticize those who make different choices.

Do you see men arguing about this BS? Nope. Men are praised no matter what they do. I was just talking with my BFF yesterday about how anytime my H was seen holding our baby, people would literally pull over their cars to praise him for being a good dad. Whereas I got mostly criticism for not doing it “right”.

I also know MANY fathers who have little to no involvement in their child’s life, and no one bats an eye.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't be disappointed at all at my son or daughters having children at 25 or even younger, as long as they were married. I have 3 kids, soon to be 4 if all goes well, so I am not anti-kids at all. Many of my friends have larger families than mine and I'd be open to more myself.

Bruenig's article rubbed me the wrong way mostly for a reason totally unrelated to young parenthood, which was that she repeatedly tried to paint herself and her husband as facing financial hardship in ways I found misleading.

On the actual topic, I also thought she was way too dramatic about the transition to parenthood in a way that I actually thought was likely to increase women's hesitance to have kids. Like, yes, kids are a lot of work and a big commitment, but you don't have to "desert yourself for another person," or look deep into your baby's eyes to see yourself. I still work, I still read and learn new things, DH and I still have friends and family. We are not trying to see ourselves in our kids, they are their own people. We just try to help them grow and develop to be healthy and happy.

yes her essay is very navel gazey and all over the place but par for the course for that type of thing. Normal people don't go around saying stuff like that, lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is stigma against young mothers. There is stigma against older mothers. There is stigma against working moms. There is stigma against SAHMs. There is stigma against women who chose not to become a mother. There is stigma against women who struggle to become moms (though weirdly it’s started to feel like this is the one woman we’re ok with because she wants to be a mom but hasn’t achieved it — we feel sorry for her but don’t hate her, lucky her).

So often these conversations wind up falling apart as women argue over their choices and options and how they are treated by other women... there is no way to resolve it among ourselves. Women are set up to compete with each other and them criticized when we do.

It’s misogyny. All of it. And the best thing we as women could do is simply support and defend each other against it, rather than seizing an opportunity to position ourselves as “one of the good women who made the right choices.” You see, there are no right choices. Half the time, what is treated as choice is not.

I love young moms and old moms and women who are not moms and working women and trans women and tired women and happy women and all the women. You are all doing great. Let’s make sure we all have access to healthcare (including abortions and birth control), access to economic independence, and freedom from harassment and assault. Everything else is immaterial.

THANK YOU

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's unquestionably a thing in the highly educated, UMC, elite professional circles that people like Liz Bruenig run in

This.

And if you were in a different socio-economic bracket in a different part of the country, having your kids in your mid to late 30s would be a thing.

It's not personal. You're just going against the herd a bit in terms of timing and people will endlessly comment on people who are outside the norm because it makes insecure people feel forced to question their own decision making. If everyone does the same thing, it feels safer.

When I see a 39-year old with a 13-year old I am not remotely insecure about my own decision to wait until 32 to have my kids (who ended up being twins so I didn't have any after that). I'm very happy with the age at which I got to have my kids. I had so much fun through my 20's and early 30's and once I had my kids I was settled enough in my career to be able to have a flexible but still high-paying job. Win win win as far as I'm concerned. Not that everyone has to want what I have, but I say that to contradict your statement that I am remotely insecure about anyone's choice to have a child year before I did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No I don’t. I think this is an Internet thing.

I agree. Liz Breuning has a weird set of haters. IRL if I meet a “young”
mom I just assume she was lucky enough to find a good guy to settle down with early. It’s no reflection on my own choices - both have plusses and minuses.