Vox article on incels

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.”

Pardon my lack of sympathy for someone's rejection or awkwardness. What an utterly benign problem these incels have.

Their lived experience shows that it's not a benign problem.

Compared to life or death? Yeah, it's absolutely a ridiculously petty and benign problem. I'll take men laughing at me as a woman all day, every day, for the rest of my life, if it meant I never ever had to worry about my physical wellbeing ever again.

Disagree, and I’m a woman. You’re presenting a false choice, a choice none of us will ever face. The real issue is that we can and should tackle multiple issues at once. We can tackle violence (and should tackle it first) but we can also tackle things that make life easier for others, like self-esteem issues for men and for everybody else. You’re basically saying, let’s ignore your measles while we treat your cancer.

It's not really a false choice. I know what it's like to be laughed at - and sure, it doesn't feel good. But it's infinitely better than the kinds of safety risks women face pretty much all day, every day, and the choices we are required to make to minimize those risks all the time. And yes--I'll say let's ignore your acne while we treat our cancer. Acne sucks, but the comparison is also asinine.

It’s a false choice because nobody has to make this choice. We can treat your acne/measles AND your cancer at the SAME TIME.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest about it. 80% of men are not attractive to women. And living in a highly sexualized culture adds to the frustration felt by these men.

I know that's something that gets said, but I don't think it's true.

The issue is around 80%+ of men are hitting on the same 20% of women and 80% of these men are not attractive to these women. It falls on men to lower their standards and it also helps the 80% of women who aren't being paid as much attention to

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest about it. 80% of men are not attractive to women. And living in a highly sexualized culture adds to the frustration felt by these men.

Also true, these 80% of men watch a lot of porn, and think they have a right to sleep with women who look like porn actresses. They think average women are beneath them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest about it. 80% of men are not attractive to women. And living in a highly sexualized culture adds to the frustration felt by these men.

I know that's something that gets said, but I don't think it's true.

I don't think it's true either. My dh is 4 inches shorter than I am, and looks like a hobbit. He's also the most wonderful loving man I have ever met.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest about it. 80% of men are not attractive to women. And living in a highly sexualized culture adds to the frustration felt by these men.

I know that's something that gets said, but I don't think it's true.

The issue is around 80%+ of men are hitting on the same 20% of women and 80% of these men are not attractive to these women. It falls on men to lower their standards and it also helps the 80% of women who aren't being paid as much attention to

This. Try hitting on some really tall women once in awhile guys. Or large women. You might just get lucky. ~ a tall large woman who never went out much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest about it. 80% of men are not attractive to women. And living in a highly sexualized culture adds to the frustration felt by these men.

I know that's something that gets said, but I don't think it's true.

The issue is around 80%+ of men are hitting on the same 20% of women and 80% of these men are not attractive to these women. It falls on men to lower their standards and it also helps the 80% of women who aren't being paid as much attention to

Another thing that gets said, but I also don't think it's true.

I think adolescent boys can be painfully shy. When they make some kind of tentative attempt to hit on a girl, there is often a bad experience for lots of possible reasons that aren't particularly anyone's fault. It's not because the guy is only hitting on someone who is unreasonably hot. It's not because the girl only wants the hottest guy. There are a lot of variables to dating and there is quite a bit of hit and miss. But, it only takes a couple of bad experiences to snuff out a shy guy's willingness to put himself out there. After that, the hurt festers and sometimes you get incels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest about it. 80% of men are not attractive to women. And living in a highly sexualized culture adds to the frustration felt by these men.

I know that's something that gets said, but I don't think it's true.

I don't think it's true either. My dh is 4 inches shorter than I am, and looks like a hobbit. He's also the most wonderful loving man I have ever met.

I agree with you, but out of curiosity, were you mostly always open to short hobbit looking guys? Or did you become more open to guys who weren't conventionally attractive as you matured? Because I think a lot of these broad statements men make about women stem from experiences during adolescence. (The incel/MRA characterization of these more mature tastes is that the woman isn't *really* attracted to these guys. She's just getting older and has to settle either for lack of options or for material gain.)

[Anonymous]

What I’d like to know is how much of this culture is created and fed by Russian trolls. I have no doubt they are involved to some extent, because this culture is absolutely creating an angry, divisive country citizentry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.”

Pardon my lack of sympathy for someone's rejection or awkwardness. What an utterly benign problem these incels have.

Their lived experience shows that it's not a benign problem.

Compared to life or death? Yeah, it's absolutely a ridiculously petty and benign problem. I'll take men laughing at me as a woman all day, every day, for the rest of my life, if it meant I never ever had to worry about my physical wellbeing ever again.

Disagree, and I’m a woman. You’re presenting a false choice, a choice none of us will ever face. The real issue is that we can and should tackle multiple issues at once. We can tackle violence (and should tackle it first) but we can also tackle things that make life easier for others, like self-esteem issues for men and for everybody else. You’re basically saying, let’s ignore your measles while we treat your cancer.

It's not really a false choice. I know what it's like to be laughed at - and sure, it doesn't feel good. But it's infinitely better than the kinds of safety risks women face pretty much all day, every day, and the choices we are required to make to minimize those risks all the time. And yes--I'll say let's ignore your acne while we treat our cancer. Acne sucks, but the comparison is also asinine.

All the stats show that men die by violence more frequently than women, are victimized by violence more frequently than women, die by all causes more often than women, live shorter lives than women, are much more likely to go to jail or be a victim of police violence than women, are more likely to end up homeless than women, commit suicide more often than women, die and are injured on the job more frequently than women, etc. etc. etc. Maleness as a package is not a low-risk proposition at all. And the self-destructive frustration and isolation these men are stuck in probably contributes to all of that.

There is very little empathy for men in our culture, even if you think men are misguided or troubled there should be room to acknowledge that their issues are very real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest about it. 80% of men are not attractive to women. And living in a highly sexualized culture adds to the frustration felt by these men.

I know that's something that gets said, but I don't think it's true.

The issue is around 80%+ of men are hitting on the same 20% of women and 80% of these men are not attractive to these women. It falls on men to lower their standards and it also helps the 80% of women who aren't being paid as much attention to

Another thing that gets said, but I also don't think it's true.

I think adolescent boys can be painfully shy. When they make some kind of tentative attempt to hit on a girl, there is often a bad experience for lots of possible reasons that aren't particularly anyone's fault. It's not because the guy is only hitting on someone who is unreasonably hot. It's not because the girl only wants the hottest guy. There are a lot of variables to dating and there is quite a bit of hit and miss. But, it only takes a couple of bad experiences to snuff out a shy guy's willingness to put himself out there. After that, the hurt festers and sometimes you get incels.

No it's true online dating backs this all up

[Anonymous]

To the stove; give me the heat and then I’ll add the wood.

Most of these InCel type guys seem to have the world backwards; people like to hang out with who they feel good around and people feel good around people they don’t want anything from them and people who truly enjoy them for who they are.

It would be highly unlikely that one of these InCel dudes has a lot of friends because guys like that aren't capable of being real friends with someone; everything to them is about who is a loser and who isn’t, who is richer etc.

So if you’re reading this Incel guys you don’t need to work on your game, you don’t need anything except a giving spirit, a genuine interest in others and pure intentions- once you’ve mastered these skills you will be having all of the sex you could ever want. Of course when you do wind up with someone who truly cares about you and you will look at her with disdain and think that she must be a loser for liking you because you have a core built around self-hatred.

45 M

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.”

Pardon my lack of sympathy for someone's rejection or awkwardness. What an utterly benign problem these incels have.

In the US, men are killed by men at rate about four times higher than the rate of women killed by men. In fact, only one woman per 100,000 can expect to be murdered in the US. For white women, the homicide rate is much lower, as low as 1 homicide per 600,000 women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.”

Pardon my lack of sympathy for someone's rejection or awkwardness. What an utterly benign problem these incels have.

In the US, men are killed by men at rate about four times higher than the rate of women killed by men. In fact, only one woman per 100,000 can expect to be murdered in the US. For white women, the homicide rate is much lower, as low as 1 homicide per 600,000 women.

But how many men are killed by women?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.”

Pardon my lack of sympathy for someone's rejection or awkwardness. What an utterly benign problem these incels have.

In the US, men are killed by men at rate about four times higher than the rate of women killed by men. In fact, only one woman per 100,000 can expect to be murdered in the US. For white women, the homicide rate is much lower, as low as 1 homicide per 600,000 women.

What's the distinction between strangers vs. known murders? Are men afraid walking home at night? Are men afraid to go for a hike by themselves? Or a run on a trail? Or to sit alone on the bus or in a metro train with one other man, and no one else? Or wait on the platform alone? Or to dress a certain way? Or travel alone? Men may murder more men than women, but I don't think you understand how pervasive it is for women to always... ALWAYS have this lingering code yellow. It's the fear that lingers, always--randomly when we're out and about just trying to live our lives and do things we enjoy. How many men are always walking around on at least a semi alert, yellow level internally?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.”

Pardon my lack of sympathy for someone's rejection or awkwardness. What an utterly benign problem these incels have.

In the US, men are killed by men at rate about four times higher than the rate of women killed by men. In fact, only one woman per 100,000 can expect to be murdered in the US. For white women, the homicide rate is much lower, as low as 1 homicide per 600,000 women.

But how many men are killed by women?

Men are clearly a greater risk to both men and women. I don't think it matters that men don't generally suffer violence at the hands of women. The point is that men are *more* at risk from other men than women are from men AND men are afraid women will laugh at them. And even though men are a lot more likely than women to suffer violence at the hands of other men, men aren't generally fearful of those other men. So, it feels like: a) men are in more danger than women; and/or b) women exaggerate their actual risk.