How forgiving should I be of my friend dealing with infertility?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you actually told her how you feel? Friendship depends on honesty and communication. Have you tried saying "I feel hurt to hear that" or "I hear a lot of pain in your voice--can we talk about that?" or something similar? Phrase it in a "I feel x" rather than "You did x."

+1

+2. If you are really that close, you should be able to get together in her living room together or something, over some wine, and let her get it all out. Then support her. Or not, I guess, but I would give a LOT of leeway to a very good friend.

[Anonymous]

She's in pain. I would try again. If she's nasty again, then AFTER the fact, write her a letter. A kind one, but a direct one. Tell her you know she's hurting, but that you feel like a punching bag. Be specific about things that hurt you.

The worst thing you could do is just ghost her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Insult” you how? If it’s as bad as you say and you aren’t just being sensitive and self centered seems like she doesn’t want you as a friend.

It's hard to tell without more information about what you consider an insult.

Since your friend is in pain -- infertility ranks up there with cancer in terms of how difficult and socially isolating it is, because literally people cannot understand how it feels unless they've been there -- I suggest that you dig deep and try and see if you being more present to her could help. Maybe she is lashing out because she isn't allowed to talk about what she feels, or because it's so painful she can't bear to put it into words. If you could try to see the friend you know and love behind this and tell her, I know this really hurts and sucks and is so unfair. How can I be there? If that doesn't help her see you as on her side, then maybe you need to put a little space. But it honestly is very tough, so just think about the fact that her non-ideal behavior is probably a cry for help. Depends how much you care about her but if she really is such a close friend I think she deserves a little more than this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Poor thing. Infertility is beyond painful. Try to be kind as you think about how lucky you are to have three beautiful children.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She has become so rude and nasty, not just to me but EVERYONE. It seems like anything and everything annoys her. This is my very good friend from childhood. She was my bridesmaid, helped throw my baby shower and was always one of my closest friends for decades. We celebrated our 40th birthdays earlier this year. Friend got married last year and all she talked about was how much they can’t wait to start a family. It isn’t happening for her. I have tried to be supportive. After months and now second year of not getting pregnant, she is just an awful human being to be around and talk to.

Do I just take the abuse from her? Can I say something?
Distance myself?

I basically listened to her insult me and everyone we know for 2 hours the last time I saw her. I didn’t mention my kids. The only one thing she said positive was how much she loves her husband and how they are remaining positive. I could tell she was fighting back tears. Then she started complaining about food and service. Couldn’t wait to get out of there. She has called and texted a few times.

Sounds like you want her to say something positive and enjoy her time with you. That's just not where she is, though. I wonder if you can separate your needs from hers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She has become so rude and nasty, not just to me but EVERYONE. It seems like anything and everything annoys her. This is my very good friend from childhood. She was my bridesmaid, helped throw my baby shower and was always one of my closest friends for decades. We celebrated our 40th birthdays earlier this year. Friend got married last year and all she talked about was how much they can’t wait to start a family. It isn’t happening for her. I have tried to be supportive. After months and now second year of not getting pregnant, she is just an awful human being to be around and talk to.

Do I just take the abuse from her? Can I say something?
Distance myself?

I basically listened to her insult me and everyone we know for 2 hours the last time I saw her. I didn’t mention my kids. The only one thing she said positive was how much she loves her husband and how they are remaining positive. I could tell she was fighting back tears. Then she started complaining about food and service. Couldn’t wait to get out of there. She has called and texted a few times.

Being negative is a way to get some control. Think about it, that's the one thing she wants and she can't have. Maybe it is nasty and mean. Very human though. Imagine if your kids were all sick and you had no way to help them. It has been two years. Where are you at, mentally? Are you loving the food and service? I think the thing that's hardest sometimes with our friends and loved ones is to be OK with how they are feeling and let them know they are OK, especially when they aren't feeling particularly good or lovable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two hours isn't too much to give to a lifelong friend. Give her your shoulder. Have more wine.

Agree. She was fighting back tears. She probably knows on some level that she's being irrational.

Just text her back, op.

Her sister told me years ago that my friend verbally abused her throughout her life. I know she did that with her ex husband too. Maybe I’ve made that list except I won’t take it.

Sounds like you’ve already made up your mind, I can’t imagine why you felt the need to ask us about it. I’m sure it couldn’t possibly be that the story is changing because you didn’t get the response you wanted initially. No one has ever done that in the history of DCUM.

Actually not. I’m just going to give her some space. In the beginning, she would talk about ovulation kits and cycles. She has always been good to my kids. I know this is a stressful time for her. I saw her a few months ago and spoke of insurance and ivf. She had shrugged and wanted to try natural way. I never bring up trying to conceive, pregnancy or babies. I sincerely hope she has a happy end with a baby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Insult” you how? If it’s as bad as you say and you aren’t just being sensitive and self centered seems like she doesn’t want you as a friend.

It's hard to tell without more information about what you consider an insult.

Since your friend is in pain -- infertility ranks up there with cancer in terms of how difficult and socially isolating it is, because literally people cannot understand how it feels unless they've been there -- I suggest that you dig deep and try and see if you being more present to her could help. Maybe she is lashing out because she isn't allowed to talk about what she feels, or because it's so painful she can't bear to put it into words. If you could try to see the friend you know and love behind this and tell her, I know this really hurts and sucks and is so unfair. How can I be there? If that doesn't help her see you as on her side, then maybe you need to put a little space. But it honestly is very tough, so just think about the fact that her non-ideal behavior is probably a cry for help. Depends how much you care about her but if she really is such a close friend I think she deserves a little more than this.

Did you really just compare infertility with cancer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Insult” you how? If it’s as bad as you say and you aren’t just being sensitive and self centered seems like she doesn’t want you as a friend.

It's hard to tell without more information about what you consider an insult.

Since your friend is in pain -- infertility ranks up there with cancer in terms of how difficult and socially isolating it is, because literally people cannot understand how it feels unless they've been there -- I suggest that you dig deep and try and see if you being more present to her could help. Maybe she is lashing out because she isn't allowed to talk about what she feels, or because it's so painful she can't bear to put it into words. If you could try to see the friend you know and love behind this and tell her, I know this really hurts and sucks and is so unfair. How can I be there? If that doesn't help her see you as on her side, then maybe you need to put a little space. But it honestly is very tough, so just think about the fact that her non-ideal behavior is probably a cry for help. Depends how much you care about her but if she really is such a close friend I think she deserves a little more than this.

Did you really just compare infertility with cancer?

https://healthypsych.com/coping-with-the-stress-of-infertility-5-best-practices/
"Psychological research shows that a diagnosis of infertility is as stressful as a diagnosis of cancer. People struggle, often quietly for years, with depression and anxiety due to their prolonged state of infertility. This leads to social isolation, which further exacerbates existing anxiety and depression. Because infertility is invisible, it can become a secret, which can lead to feelings of shame, guilt and personal failure."

https://apracticalwedding.com/infertility-worse-than-my-cancer/
"Infertility on the other hand, has been far worse. There are plenty of sources that will tell you that the stress levels of women with infertility are the same as those of women with cancer, AIDS, or heart disease. But they don’t tell you why that is the case. Having had both, I now have a pretty good idea of why. While most women with cancer don’t have it as easy as I did (and it’s not really ever fair to compare diagnoses), having experienced how people treated my cancer, compared with how they’ve reacted to my inability to conceive has taught me a thing or two about stress and the isolation of infertility."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Insult” you how? If it’s as bad as you say and you aren’t just being sensitive and self centered seems like she doesn’t want you as a friend.

It's hard to tell without more information about what you consider an insult.

Since your friend is in pain -- infertility ranks up there with cancer in terms of how difficult and socially isolating it is, because literally people cannot understand how it feels unless they've been there -- I suggest that you dig deep and try and see if you being more present to her could help. Maybe she is lashing out because she isn't allowed to talk about what she feels, or because it's so painful she can't bear to put it into words. If you could try to see the friend you know and love behind this and tell her, I know this really hurts and sucks and is so unfair. How can I be there? If that doesn't help her see you as on her side, then maybe you need to put a little space. But it honestly is very tough, so just think about the fact that her non-ideal behavior is probably a cry for help. Depends how much you care about her but if she really is such a close friend I think she deserves a little more than this.

Did you really just compare infertility with cancer?

https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/The-psychological-impact-of-infertility-and-its-treatment
"One study of 200 couples seen consecutively at a fertility clinic, for example, found that half of the women and 15% of the men said that infertility was the most upsetting experience of their lives. Another study of 488 American women who filled out a standard psychological questionnaire before undergoing a stress reduction program concluded that women with infertility felt as anxious or depressed as those diagnosed with cancer, hypertension, or recovering from a heart attack."

[Anonymous]

I've gone through this OP, she's really angry and upset at her situation right now and may not know how to handle it. There is almost no one to talk to, and even the therapists I have tried didn't take infertility seriously enough and seemed to think you just got over it and moved on, fulfilled by a job or a hobby or a houseful of pets or something.

We were never able to have a child and we were also not able to adopt. It's painful, a reminder that God / the universe /your body can't do the most basic thing we are here to do. And, there will be no family or no grandchildren to ever look forward to. And pretty much your friends and relatives with children tend to abandon you, at least in my case. It's been awful.

A couple of hours of anger and irritation after a lifetime of friendship shouldn't kill the whole friendship. Your friend is going through a lot.

[Anonymous]

Please be kind. My struggle with infertility was the most stressful time of my life, and it was tough for me to relate to friends who got pregnant easily, because they just couldn't empathize. If you can be there for her, please do. I got to the point where I didn't want to go to places where babies would be. Your friend will eventually find peace and you will be able to grow closer again then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two hours isn't too much to give to a lifelong friend. Give her your shoulder. Have more wine.

Agree. She was fighting back tears. She probably knows on some level that she's being irrational.

Just text her back, op.

Her sister told me years ago that my friend verbally abused her throughout her life. I know she did that with her ex husband too. Maybe I’ve made that list except I won’t take it.

Sounds like you’ve already made up your mind, I can’t imagine why you felt the need to ask us about it. I’m sure it couldn’t possibly be that the story is changing because you didn’t get the response you wanted initially. No one has ever done that in the history of DCUM.

Actually not. I’m just going to give her some space. In the beginning, she would talk about ovulation kits and cycles. She has always been good to my kids. I know this is a stressful time for her. I saw her a few months ago and spoke of insurance and ivf. She had shrugged and wanted to try natural way. I never bring up trying to conceive, pregnancy or babies. I sincerely hope she has a happy end with a baby.

“My friend is going through something awful, and she’s just sad and mad and not fun anymore. I’m going to walk away from her while she’s struggling but I’m always here for her if she turns fun again.”

[Anonymous]

I feel like your opinion of your friend is pretty low to begin with: "Her sister told me years ago that my friend verbally abused her throughout her life. I know she did that with her ex husband too. Maybe I’ve made that list except I won’t take it."

Perhaps she is emotional and struggling deeply, but you clearly have negative feelings towards her anyhow. I say let her go as a friend. She needs more supportive people in her life anyway. Not someone like you who gets on here to vent about how her struggle is affecting you. Ever think about that?

[Anonymous]

None. You take no abuse and she has no right to abuse people. Her issues are her own, my sister dealt with it and was never nasty to anyone. I dealt with it, for around a year, told I can't have kids until surgery, and was lucky to get pregnant, no idea how. So, no, we all deal with crap all the time. Non stop, life is a shit show more often than not. This is just her true nature showing up. Where does it stop? your DH had a bad day at work, so you just forgive him for being an a** hole, you take it out on your kids when you have a bad day at work or at home? Death of a parent and you just get a pass? It is not ok, it is never ok to allow anyone to insult you or abuse you. Do not become nasty yourself, just tell her, that you understand she is having a hard time but treating you like crap and insulting you is not acceptable. Stay calm and walk away.